Programs with flight time as a requirement

[hflessa]

Anyone know which programs require residents to fly as part of the residency training? Thanks for any info.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[FoughtFyr]

Anyone know which programs require residents to fly as part of the residency training? Thanks for any info.

Require or offer? There is a difference - it is (somewhat) optional at some programs, mandatory at others.

- H

 

[Dr. Will]

Cincinnati is one program where flight is a part of the curriculum beginning in your 2nd year. Every shift you work, you may have to fly.

 

[hflessa]

Require or offer? There is a difference - it is (somewhat) optional at some programs, mandatory at others.

- H

require...

 

[FoughtFyr]

require...

As far as I know, Madison will require it, and Indiana, U of Chicago, and Cincinnati do as well. I'm sure there are others.

- H

 

[DropkickMurphy]

As far as I know, Madison will require it, and Indiana, U of Chicago, and Cincinnati do as well. I'm sure there are others.

- H

Not this again.......

 

[po' boy]

Vandy now offers lifeflight shifts but you can opt out. Fun for a couple but the pace/volume is slower than working in the ED, which most of us prefer.

 

[FoughtFyr]

Not this again.......

Now I didn't F McF him/her because here is a subtle but important distinction in his/her question. There is some utility in generating a list of those program for which flight is "required" as opposed to "offered" so that those with strong feelings against HEMS (or even a fear of flying) might tailor their application choices.

- H

 

[nocallaochicas]

UMass requires it also. I heard the same thing at my interview that crewmaster detailed in his review: The PD clearly states that if you don't want to fly, don't rank the program. It's pretty cool though...
BTW, I know nothing about EMS and am not saying anything about whether flying is a good idea or not. I just think it sounds fun. End disclaimer.
ncc

 

[awdc]

Allegheny General has a required life flight rotation in the third year.

 

[Hawkeye Kid]

As far as I know, Madison will require it, and Indiana, U of Chicago, and Cincinnati do as well. I'm sure there are others.

- H

I may have posted this elsewhere, but Indy does NOT require flying. However, most (but certainly not all) R2-3s fly. If you choose not to fly you work a few more ED shifts/month to make up for the time you're not flying; you also can't moonlight on Lifeline if you don't do regularly scheduled shifts.

That's the general scoop. If anyone has specific ?s about our flight program, feel free to PM me.

 

[VeerTheTIGuy]

I know UCSD offers a rotation with Mercy Air

 

[DropkickMurphy]

Now I didn't F McF him/her because here is a subtle but important distinction in his/her question. There is some utility in generating a list of those program for which flight is "required" as opposed to "offered" so that those with strong feelings against HEMS (or even a fear of flying) might tailor their application choices.

- H

You have a point.....I just didn't want a repeat of the previous threads.....It wasn't directed at your response, but at the topic in general.

 

[Mutt22]

The University of Nebraska has an EMS month in your first year. You do some flights and some shifts with paramedics in the ambulance. Not sure if you "have" to do the flights.

 

[crewmaster1]

Medical College Wisconsin flys, but I'm not sure if it was required. If so, they sure didin't say so at the interview. Either way, I'm in! (for flying that is, well see on match day if I'm in or not).

 

[endo]

Just to confirm, as there was a change in information on Indiana and Madison... it is a _requirement_ in Cincinnati -- nothing optional about it. This is coming from a PGY-4 here in Cinci.

 

[BadVB750]

Geisinger requires their residents to take flight shifts in their 2nd and 3rd years, but they only respond to scenes not inter-facility transports.

 

[Arctic Char]

i'm a little naive on this topic, so please be patient. how could one make a career out of being a "flight doctor". could one make a career out of flying exclusively?

thanks for any info.

 

[southerndoc]

i'm a little naive on this topic, so please be patient. how could one make a career out of being a "flight doctor". could one make a career out of flying exclusively?

thanks for any info.

I think some of the MetroHealth LifeFlight administrators have made a career out of flying, but I'm sure they also pull additional clinical shifts in the ED.

 

[Arctic Char]

i would be thrilled to play that role.

 

[FISKUS]

University of Wisconsin Med Flight currently staffs with only attending level EM docs. Some are ED faculty, some are full time med flight. The plans are to let the PGY-2 and PGY-3 EM residents cover some shifts once the residency comes online.

 

[MasterintuBater]

In Peoria we do two flight shifts a month. In your first year you do a two week dedicated flight rotation. Flight shifts are not required, but if you're not flying, you have to work in the Fast Track. Most everyone would rather fly, including me. Plus, flight nurses have some pretty cool stories.

 

[the reviewER]

Geisinger requires their residents to take flight shifts in their 2nd and 3rd years, but they only respond to scenes not inter-facility transports.

It's actually not REQUIRED if the resident has opposition to the idea. It would put another resident on the flight which maybe they would like...or not.
On a side note LifeFlight up there is AWESOME and the crews are wonderful. safety is FIRST. It only takes one "no go" to ground but the pilots i've met are very sensible and do whats best for all.

 

[mikecwru]

I think some of the MetroHealth LifeFlight administrators have made a career out of flying, but I'm sure they also pull additional clinical shifts in the ED.

There are a few who only exclusively fly, a few that fly heavily with a few clinical shifts, and the rest are ED docs that fly once in awhile. Some surgeons/surgery residents also fly, but I would say the majority are EM.

mike

 

[BadVB750]

It's actually not REQUIRED if the resident has opposition to the idea. It would put another resident on the flight which maybe they would like...or not.
On a side note LifeFlight up there is AWESOME and the crews are wonderful. safety is FIRST. It only takes one "no go" to ground but the pilots i've met are very sensible and do whats best for all.

Sorry, about the confusion.

 

[hflessa]

bump

 

[Vvandenn]

So...(newb question), as an EM doc can you fly full-time on lifeflight after residency? i.e. are flight phyiscians EM doctors? Or is there a specific residency you have to do in order to become a "flight physician?"

 

[docflanny]

At MSU-Grand Rapids, flight medicine is not apart of our curriculum, but you can moonlight on our program's affiliated Aeromed in your PGY-3 year. Completely elective and you get PAID for your work! It's a great setup. In order to moonlight, you must have your permanant license.

 

[dgmedic]

I just don't understand why a resident would even be required to fly. If an EM resident and they are wanting to see the EMS side....see the EMS side from an EMS perspective...a medic on a truck.

How often is the flight crew the first on scene...deal with the initial stabilization...etc.

I guess I could see it from a facility to facility situation...but not a scene flight...that just silly.

 

[8744]

What is the educational value of flying on a helicopter that you could not get riding on the ground with EMS? I ask this every time this topic comes up and all I hear are crickets.

 

[FLTDOC1]

I have taken care of tens of thousands ED patients and several thousand prehospital patients. Without a doubt, the most memorable and challenging were on the helicopter.

Experience –air vs ground. The bull**** factor is much lower in the air. Its not absent, but it is lower. The helicopter usually sees a “distilled “ acuity. As far as scene responses, the helicopter is typically called to the more severe accidents. In an ALS ground rig you are hauling a lot of minor fender benders and sprained ankles. You may go days without seeing a truly ill patient.

For interfaculty transfers , the sicker pts tend to be sent by air if available.

Bottom line – the average helicopter transfer tends to have a much higher acuity compared to your average ground transfer. Higher acuity = more procedures and fun stuff. That’s what us EM types live for. Given the same shift time – I see more acute pts in one week on the helicopter than I saw in 2 months in a ground service.

To make it a worthwhile experience you have to be an actual, dedicated crewmember. Not an observer or ridealong. It is a really great environment to test your wings. For many, it is the first time as a physician that you are taking care of a patient without any backup.


I highly recommend the flight physician experience for all EM residents.

 

[DoctorTinyCat]

Bump... anyone have any updates to this thread? As someone applying this year who does not want to fly, I don't want to apply to any programs where it would be mandatory.

Right now it looks like the (outdated?) list includes Cinci, U of Chicago, Geisinger, Indiana, Allegheny, UMass.

Thanks!

 

[CraftyMed]

Currently, no program is allowed to make flight shifts mandatory. You would likely have other options instead of flying, i.e. extra ED shifts, Fast Track, or ground EMS shifts. Some programs are big into flying and may look down upon your choice though.

 

[tkim]

Currently, no program is allowed to make flight shifts mandatory. You would likely have other options instead of flying, i.e. extra ED shifts, Fast Track, or ground EMS shifts. Some programs are big into flying and may look down upon your choice though.

True, but all the programs I interviewed at that had flight programs flat out said "If you don't want to fly, don't rank us, because if you come here, you will be expected to fly."

 

[Arcan57]

True, but all the programs I interviewed at that had flight programs flat out said "If you don't want to fly, don't rank us, because if you come here, you will be expected to fly."

I couldn't find the rule against mandatory flights. In Cinci it wasn't optional.

 

[turkeyjerky]

Wisconsin and Pitt both seemed very into flight during my interviews. I believe both made it "optional" but pretty much every resident did fly. Also, as I recall, Indy no longer flies.

 

[Tiger26]

Wisconsin and Pitt both seemed very into flight during my interviews. I believe both made it "optional" but pretty much every resident did fly. Also, as I recall, Indy no longer flies.

Wisconsin made it optional when their helicopter crashed into a hill a few years ago . . .

 

[iridesingltrack]

Currently, no program is allowed to make flight shifts mandatory. You would likely have other options instead of flying, i.e. extra ED shifts, Fast Track, or ground EMS shifts. Some programs are big into flying and may look down upon your choice though.

CraftyMed,

What regulation are you referring to when you say that "...no program is allowed to make flight shifts mandatory?" There are several programs that have flight as a requirement and are in very good stead with the RRC, my own included.

iride

 

[Nervous Ned]

Bump... anyone have any updates to this thread? As someone applying this year who does not want to fly, I don't want to apply to any programs where it would be mandatory.

Right now it looks like the (outdated?) list includes Cinci, U of Chicago, Geisinger, Indiana, Allegheny, UMass.

Thanks!

UMass is transitioning away from requiring residents to fly, though it will still be optional for those who want to. My class is probably the last one that will be required to fly.

 

[CraftyMed]

CraftyMed,

What regulation are you referring to when you say that "...no program is allowed to make flight shifts mandatory?" There are several programs that have flight as a requirement and are in very good stead with the RRC, my own included.

iride

It's not part of the ACGME RRC requirements, but CORD has made the statement that they do not believe that flight experience is required. Many flight programs have weight/height requirements that some residents may not meet. In those instances, the residents are offered an alternative to flight shifts. The RRC states that applicants must be informed regarding the flight requirements (or not) of a program during the application process.

http://www.cordem.org/i4a/pages/index.cfm?pageid=3343

 

[FLTDOC1]

There are only 6 programs that offer a dedicated flight physician experience. That being a full time RN-MD flight team, not a "ride along" or 1 month elective type experience.

Univ of Chicago
Univ of Wisconsin
Univ of Mass
Cleveland Metro
Univ of Cincinnati
Spectrum Aeromed ( Grand Rapids MI)

 

[Tiger10]

There are only 6 programs that offer a dedicated flight physician experience. That being a full time RN-MD flight team, not a "ride along" or 1 month elective type experience.

Univ of Chicago
Univ of Wisconsin
Univ of Mass
Cleveland Metro
Univ of Cincinnati
Spectrum Aeromed ( Grand Rapids MI)

Geisinger and Kalamazoo should be on this list too.

 

[Emergency!]

Geisinger and Kalamazoo should be on this list too.

In Kzoo, the resident is a ride-along and not a dedicated part of an RN-MD team.

 

[Zanegray]

Geisinger and Kalamazoo should be on this list too.

There are only 6 programs that offer a dedicated flight physician experience. That being a full time RN-MD flight team, not a "ride along" or 1 month elective type experience.

Univ of Chicago
Univ of Wisconsin
Univ of Mass
Cleveland Metro
Univ of Cincinnati
Spectrum Aeromed ( Grand Rapids MI)

Pitt has what I would call a dedicated flight physician experience. Its not a full time MD-RN team, but when you are on it is either a MD-RN or MD-medic and you can override protocol. After intern year you have a couple of months a year that is essentially pre-hospital (Physician response vehicle or STAT Medevac). Plus 2 shifts a month that are either of the above as well.

FWIW - I do think that scene runs on the helicopter are some of the highest acuity patients I saw in residency, essentially at my direction. For example, awake patient with amputated lower extremity bleeding out despite a tourniquet with no IV access on our arrival (had to change pants after that one). Some of my classmates transported GSW to face etc. I also transported from very sick patients from facility to facility.