Promotion rates (Army)

[aau22]

Just saw this article posted on Army Times: http://www.armytimes.com/article/20...ealth-officers-had-tough-shot-captain-lt-col-

66% in zone selection rate for Medical Corps promotion to MAJ. Guess it isn't a sure thing anymore. Saw the recent postings about O5 rates being dismal but this was shocking to me. Anybody know docs that got passed over?

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[psychbender]

I've know two passed over for height/weight or PT failures. Both good doctors, board certified, just found wanting on the physical side.

 

[dwb8p]

Just saw this article posted on Army Times: http://www.armytimes.com/article/20...ealth-officers-had-tough-shot-captain-lt-col-

66% in zone selection rate for Medical Corps promotion to MAJ. Guess it isn't a sure thing anymore. Saw the recent postings about O5 rates being dismal but this was shocking to me. Anybody know docs that got passed over?

I think the article was referring to 66% in zone selection for MAJ to LTC, not from CPT to MAJ. It was just a poorly written sentence. Also notice the title of the article refers to LTC.

"The primary-zone select rate for Medical Corps majors was 66 percent, well below historical norms, while the rate for the Dental Corps was 88.9 percent, with 24 of the 27 PZ candidates being picked up for advancement to lieutenant colonel."

 

[Chonal Atresia]

I think the article was referring to 66% in zone selection for MAJ to LTC, not from CPT to MAJ. It was just a poorly written sentence. Also notice the title of the article refers to LTC.

"The primary-zone select rate for Medical Corps majors was 66 percent, well below historical norms, while the rate for the Dental Corps was 88.9 percent, with 24 of the 27 PZ candidates being picked up for advancement to lieutenant colonel."

Whatever the article meant, the army is completely ignorant by not promoting 100% of MAJ to LTCs. I guess the nurse surgeon general and her lackeys just don't understand (or don't care) the great deal the army is getting by retaining these docs. Gonna be a LOT more expensive to hire contractors (if they are even willing to work for the federal government) than just promote all physicians. Plus, contractors aren't going to deploy when Iraq III and the invasion of the Ukraine begins.

 

[colbgw02]

I know a MAJ who was passed over in the zone despite easily passing the APFT, spending years at Ft. Elsewhere (to include as the department chief), deploying to Afghanistan, attending CCC, and completing a fellowship (rank-appropriate professional training). If the Army won't promote this guy, then they are just not interested in retaining people who care about and are capable of treating its beneficiaries, plain and simple. I'm so thankful to be getting off this train before completely derails.

 

[aau22]

Ah thanks for clarifying! Apparently my reading skills are lapsing since finishing residency a few months back I think they have no interest in retention and predict a slow shift away from GME to operational medicine as the focus. I just trained in derm and had excellent education at what I think is one of the best programs in the country, but the reality is that the military doesn't NEED to train derms. It really is sad to see the focus isn't on clinical competence and dedication to your patients to get picked up for promotion but rather whether you play the game and take the right admin jobs and sit on committees. I think they are hoping people make it easier for them and just slowly separate due to lack of promotion etc rather than have to pay retirements or involuntary separation packages.

 

[jabreal00]

I also know a doc who was passed over two years in a row for LTC so he got out. He had no issues with his APFT and did CCC. He was a decent doc but had some personality issues but that's par for the course with many LTC and COL who are on the administrative track.

When I was in Ft Nowhere after finishing my training, a COL from HRC in Ft Knox came to talk to docs at my MTF about planning their career in the military. For one, all he was interested in promoting was operational medicine (Division, Brigade or Battalion surgeon slots). He said to me straight faced that the Army was very close to getting rid of GME and CONUS assignments for active duty doc because big Army's emphasis is on operational medicine. They would fill all CONUS MTFs with contractors or GS physicians. However, they realized that they still need physicians to deploy and the civilians won't deploy. That's the only reason why they still have MEDCOM.

 

[Kilgoretrout 65]

I wonder if they paid enough, could they get docs to deploy? If socialized medicine takes over and surgeons are making 150K/yr, would they deploy for a year for 1.5M? You could probably get some retired docs to deploy
if you paid them enough. Especially if the "deployment" was to Qatar or Italy. Kind of like being a doc on an oil platform off Lagos, if those exist. A lowest bidder situation here could get ugly fast for the troops.
Docs-r-us brought to you by Halliburton.

 

[idq1i]

I wonder if they paid enough, could they get docs to deploy? If socialized medicine takes over and surgeons are making 150K/yr, would they deploy for a year for 1.5M? You could probably get some retired docs to deploy
if you paid them enough. Especially if the "deployment" was to Qatar or Italy. Kind of like being a doc on an oil platform off Lagos, if those exist. A lowest bidder situation here could get ugly fast for the troops.
Docs-r-us brought to you by Halliburton.

Easier solution which I bet they will use - let AD NP/PA/PTs practice completely independently (they essentially do that anyway in the mEDCOM) and now they don't need physicians any more. Like I was told several times in my (thankfully winding down) milmed career - "the standards in the military are different"

 

[HighPriest]

NPs and PAs are already practicing with complete independence, just not performing surgeries. That's why my consult pool is so terrible. Don't get me wrong, I think PAs with the proper training and oversight do a great job. I have one that works for me now, and she's fantastic. But that's because I've taken the time to teach her. Standard Army protocol, however, is that you do 2 years of PA training and then you're more or less making the same decisions as an FP doc. They're in way over their heads. Most of the PAs I deal with realize that. Most of the NPs I work with are in the same boat, but think they know far more than they do.

In any case, i think they would definitely get civilian docs to deploy if they paid well, and I don't think they'll start having NPs or PAs performing surgeries.....but then again....I've found a brilliant formula that perfectly predicts every move the US Army will make (MEDCOM specifically....please don't share this with the enemy, they might use it against us): whatever the worst possible choice might be in a decision, that's the one MEDCOM will go for.

The fact of the matter is that most of MEDCOM is utilized stateside. The Army doesn't need such a large stable of physicians unless they're running a large hospital system. They're going the same way as the AF - eliminate most hospitals and keep a few larger tertiary care centers open specifically to house your doc stable. There will be a concomittant downsizing of medical staff. In a perfect world that would mean reducing the contractor pool first, but then again see the formula... They'll want to start reducing the size of the AD component, and this is one step in that direction. Ultimately it'll mean fewer docs, longer deployments where necessary. It'll also mean hospitals chock full of people with not much to do. Like most MEDCOM decisions, it makes some sense for primary care where they're booked out 6-8 weeks and there's no continuity. For my people it'll mean a lot of ass-in-the-chair time.

 

[idq1i]

Don't get me wrong, I think PAs with the proper training and oversight do a great job.

Interestingly enough, medcom seems to treat them like GS employees. I worked with 2 duds who in my opinion were functionally ******ed (or whatever the latest en vogue DSM descriptor is now). Instead of canning them after a year of continued malpractice, command just kept shifting them from clinic to clinic, modifying their privileges.

 

[HighPriest]

Interestingly enough, medcom seems to treat them like GS employees. I worked with 2 duds who in my opinion were functionally ******ed (or whatever the latest en vogue DSM descriptor is now). Instead of canning them after a year of continued malpractice, command just kept shifting them from clinic to clinic, modifying their privileges.

That doesn't surprise me in the least. See the formula.

But MEDCOM makes the same decisions with physicians, which is why we have convicted felons with admitting privelages. There's nothing that makes me happier than filling out 5 peer reviews a month knowing that no one cares what they say.


Anyway, there are *****s in any field. My only requirement is that the ignorant make themselves distinct from the *****s by understanding that they have a lot to learn.