Psych with lab count as science class with new mcat?

[Youngm2194]

I'm just wondering if psych 1 with a lab would count towards the science gpa with the new mcat. I looked and couldn't find an answer. I'm wondering if I should take it regardless due to the mcat, but wasn't sure if the new changes add psych to BCPM...I'm assuming no still

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[onceawolverine]

Nope, Psychology will not be included in the BCPM (Biology, Chemistry, Physics, and Mathematics) GPA.

 

[Kochanie]

Nope!

 

[efle]

psych majors are.already so.common I can't even imagine what it would be like if premeds also all took psych majors to fluff their sGPA

 

[onceawolverine]

psych majors are.already so.common I can't even imagine what it would be like if premeds also all took psych majors to fluff their sGPA

Not all premeds are good at psych, at least in the experiences I've had at my school. Psychology, when taught well, isn't about regurgitating physics equations and memorizing biochemical pathways. Instead, it requires one to stop flashcard-quizzing and instead contemplate confusing, nuanced, interwoven concepts; individual differences, both conflicting and contributory; myriads of social, environmental and personal influences; weighing logical vs. emotional causality of behavior, etc etc. I hope your experience with it hasn't all been fluff. I know mine hasn't.

 

[efle]

Not all premeds are good at psych, at least in the experiences I've had at my school. Psychology, when taught well, isn't about regurgitating physics equations and memorizing biochemical pathways. Instead, it requires one to stop flashcard-quizzing and instead contemplate confusing, nuanced, interwoven concepts; individual differences, both conflicting and contributory; myriads of social, environmental and personal influences; weighing logical vs. emotional causality of behavior, etc etc. I hope your experience with it hasn't all been fluff. I know mine hasn't.

Oh, the psych classes aren't less interesting or rigorous at my uni, they're just graded less harshly and often not on a curve, similar to humanities. Being average in my 300+ level psych classes gets you a B+/A- instead of a B-/B

Pretty funny hearing you try to characterize psych as more intellectual than physics/biochem though. Salty much about your major's reputation? Any subject can stress reasoning/logic/fluid intelligence more than memorization when taught well

 

[onceawolverine]

Oh, the psych classes aren't less interesting or rigorous at my uni, they're just graded less harshly and often not on a curve, similar to humanities. Being average in my 300+ level psych classes gets you a B+/A- instead of a B-/B

Man oh man, I wish I could combine the grading scale in that department with the teaching in mine!

Pretty funny hearing you try to characterize psych as more intellectual than physics/biochem though. Salty much about your major's reputation? Any subject can stress reasoning/logic/fluid intelligence more than memorization when taught well

With significant experience in both areas**, I'd say my opinion holds slightly more water than salt, if you know what I mean. But, to each his/her own.

**I have two majors and a minor. One in the Psychology Dept, One in the Biochemistry/Chemistry Dept, and one in the Statistics Dept. MDApps doesn't ever tell you the full story, my friend

 

[efle]

Psych getting more gently graded is pretty nearly universal, your school is an exception for having psych comparable to BCPM

 

[Ismet]

I'm just wondering if psych 1 with a lab would count towards the science gpa with the new mcat. I looked and couldn't find an answer. I'm wondering if I should take it regardless due to the mcat, but wasn't sure if the new changes add psych to BCPM...I'm assuming no still

Definitely not. Just because it's on the MCAT doesn't make it fall under BCPM. It's a soft science.

 

[knv2u]

I'm just wondering if psych 1 with a lab would count towards the science gpa with the new mcat. I looked and couldn't find an answer. I'm wondering if I should take it regardless due to the mcat, but wasn't sure if the new changes add psych to BCPM...I'm assuming no still

It depends. What wasn't considered BCPM before the new MCAT won't be considered BCPM now. With this said, it depends on what type of psychology class it is. A statistics class, psychobiology, or neurobiology class can be counted as BCPM. Other classes, generally no unless it has substantial math/biology underpinning.

Edit: I see now that you are talking about PSYC 101. This won't count.

 

[knv2u]

.

 

[Kochanie]

It depends. What wasn't considered BCPM before the new MCAT won't be considered BCPM now. With this said, it depends on what type of psychology class it is. A statistics class, psychobiology, or neurobiology class can be counted as BCPM. Other classes, generally no unless it has substantial math/biology underpinning.

Edit: I see now that you are talking about PSYC 101. This won't count.

On this note, will Statistics labeled under Psychology for sure be considered BCPM? I'm really focusing on raising that so all my electives need to be BCPM lol. :/

 

[knv2u]

On this note, will Statistics labeled under Psychology for sure be considered BCPM? I'm really focusing on raising that so all my electives need to be BCPM lol. :/

Statistics courses count as BCPM. The departmental code/course code is not binding as long as the syllabus shows that the course substantially covers BCPM topics. If AMCAS challenges your classification, just send them the syllabus and it will be fixed.

 

[Holmwood]

Neurobio with lab, perhaps (like anatomy heavy + some perfusion/dissection).

 

[643320]

Statistics courses count as BCPM. The departmental code/course code is not binding as long as the syllabus shows that the course substantially covers BCPM topics. If AMCAS challenges your classification, just send them the syllabus and it will be fixed.

Does this mean that classes in computer science may be able to count towards BCPM? I was always under the assumption that this was based solely on the dept. code, which excludes computer science, and I've thought that it's silly to not count this towards science/math.

 

[mehc012]

Not all premeds are good at psych, at least in the experiences I've had at my school. Psychology, when taught well, isn't about regurgitating physics equations and memorizing biochemical pathways. Instead, it requires one to stop flashcard-quizzing and instead contemplate confusing, nuanced, interwoven concepts; individual differences, both conflicting and contributory; myriads of social, environmental and personal influences; weighing logical vs. emotional causality of behavior, etc etc. I hope your experience with it hasn't all been fluff. I know mine hasn't.

Yeah, it's a combo of straight regurgitation in lower levels and endless talking with no conclusions in upper levels. Interesting, but not difficult. But then, difficulty is a sh***y goal anyway. I learned some things, which is the real goal.

So, if by 'fluff' you mean 'pointless', hell no. If you mean 'taken each semester to make a science schedule easier while still avoiding the really squishy socials', well, yeah. It is what it is.

I also hope that your sciences weren't all flashcard-quizzing...if you never hit an area that was about 'confusing, nuanced, interwoven concepts,' you had a depressingly shallow science education.

 

[NP545]

psych majors are.already so.common I can't even imagine what it would be like if premeds also all took psych majors to fluff their sGPA

If that were the case, then I suppose the only "good" major would be physics, right? I mean, biology is pure memorization, chemistry is all concepts, math is plugging into formulas, and physics requires actual thinking, right?

Just because you may have taken an introductory psych class, I wouldnt go about degrading the major. Why don't you try taking a few upper-level psych classes before you make a judgement? Psych is very encompassing, and it even has some areas which focus on the biological basis of behavior. It's not as "easy" as you think; it also involves work, albeit more practical work that does not involve memorization alone. Just because the classes aren't curved doesn't make it easier or fluff.

 

[mehc012]

If that were the case, then I suppose the only "good" major would be physics, right? I mean, biology is pure memorization, chemistry is all concepts, math is plugging into formulas, and physics requires actual thinking, right?

Just because you may have taken an introductory psych class, I wouldnt go about degrading the major. Why don't you try taking a few upper-level psych classes before you make a judgement? Psych is very encompassing, and it even has some areas which focus on the biological basis of behavior. It's not as "easy" as you think; it also involves work, albeit more practical work that does not involve memorization alone. Just because the classes aren't curved doesn't make it easier or fluff.

What the heck does curving have to do with anything? None of my science courses were curved.
There are definitely schools where Psych is just easier. Mine was one of them. I took nothing but Bio, Chem, Psych, and some CSCI once I cleared out my humanities requirements and a few maths in my first 2yrs. At my school, the difficulty of a Psych course was just utterly incomparable to a science.

That doesn't mean it's not meaningful or interesting, just that it's easier. So what? Why does anyone care whether they took a hard or an easy course?

Also, lol@ chem being just concepts.

 

[onceawolverine]

Yeah, it's a combo of straight regurgitation in lower levels and endless talking with no conclusions in upper levels. Interesting, but not difficult. But then, difficulty is a sh***y goal anyway. I learned some things, which is the real goal.

So, if by 'fluff' you mean 'pointless', hell no. If you mean 'taken each semester to make a science schedule easier while still avoiding the really squishy socials', well, yeah. It is what it is.

I also hope that your sciences weren't all flashcard-quizzing...if you never hit an area that was about 'confusing, nuanced, interwoven concepts,' you had a depressingly shallow science education.

1) Our psychology departments clearly vary in philosophy, as that is not the experience that anyone, pre-med or not, has at my school.
2) I'm always surprised to hear of people "padding" their schedules with "squishy" socials. Past 101 courses, that strategy doesn't really work so well in my experience. If you take Anthro 101, for example, with zero interest in it, how will you motivate yourself to study? If you have to go any step beyond pure regurgitation, you'll get tripped up relatively easily, and your grades will suffer. As I've said here and elsewhere, take courses that you want to take, not the ones with good grade distributions, because wanting to take them will by nature make you study more/think harder/perform better.
3) Don't you worry too much about my science education being "depressingly shallow." Sure, I've done my fair share of flashcard memorizing, as has anyone who's ever studied for an intro-level-anything. Thankfully, I've also taken several complex organic, physical, and biological chemistry courses (since we're on the subject of chemistry) in which flash-carding would be a complete and utter waste/misuse of time.

 

[mehc012]

1) Our psychology departments clearly vary in philosophy, as that is not the experience that anyone, pre-med or not, has at my school.

Oh, sorry...that's pretty much what I got from your post, perhaps with some editorializing from my own Psych experience.

2) I'm always surprised to hear of people "padding" their schedules with "squishy" socials. Past 101 courses, that strategy doesn't really work so well in my experience. If you take Anthro 101, for example, with zero interest in it, how will you motivate yourself to study? If you have to go any step beyond pure regurgitation, you'll get tripped up relatively easily, and your grades will suffer. As I've said here and elsewhere, take courses that you want to take, not the ones with good grade distributions, because wanting to take them will by nature make you study more/think harder/perform better.

Thus the taking Psych (which I said I found interesting) rather than the squishier courses such as Soc and Anthro, which I don't. We are in agreement on this - don't take a course you are not interested in.
I was never worried about grades, per se, and more so not having 4 labs/semester, as at my school you cannot take a course without its lab, and you can't take fewer classes just because they all have labs. If you try to take all Phys/Chem/Bio, you end up with 3-4hrs of lab (unless it was unofficially more of a 1-7pm lab) 4/5 nights of the week, which also makes you late for sports waayy too often. At least the Psych labs, if they had them, were more like CS labs, in that they were geared to help you finish the other work for the course more quickly. So the 'padding' meant 'not having an extra 4hrs chunk taken out of the schedule'. Math, CS, and Psych were the go-tos for those who were primarily interested in sciences but needed some non-labs, exactly because they often found them the most interesting. Astro and Econ also got a few players, but only the intros. Of those, Psych was also the easiest, which I am happy to put down as a school-specific thing. I don't give a crap whether one class is considered harder than another, and I didn't give a damn about my grades back then, so that had nothing to do with it.

3) Don't you worry too much about my science education being "depressingly shallow." Sure, I've done my fair share of flashcard memorizing, as has anyone who's ever studied for an intro-level-anything. Thankfully, I've also taken several complex organic, physical, and biological chemistry courses (since we're on the subject of chemistry) in which flash-carding would be a complete and utter waste/misuse of time.

I was expressing the same sentiment that you were, for much of the same reason, only yours regarded Psych while mine was about sciences. I didn't realize that you would take offense to your own attitude.

 

[onceawolverine]

I was expressing the same sentiment that you were, for much of the same reason, only yours regarded Psych while mine was about sciences. I didn't realize that you would take offense to your own attitude.

Except that my comment was made a) in response to the belittlement of the field, and b) out of a sincere hope that everyone has an experience with psych that is full of merit and value because I find the subject fascinating. I said "I hope that your experience hasn't been all fluff." You said "if you never did x y and z, then you had a depressingly shallow science education." Your tone is dramatically different, hence our attitudes differ.

 

[mehc012]

Except that my comment was made a) in response to the belittlement of the field, and b) out of a sincere hope that everyone has an experience with psych that is full of merit and value because I find the subject fascinating. I said "I hope that your experience hasn't been all fluff." You said "if you never did x y and z, then you had a depressingly shallow science education." Your tone is dramatically different, hence our attitudes differ.

Fair enough, I am sorry. For what it's worth, I got a similarly objectionable vibe from your first post in regards to your description of studying the science fields, hence the attitude in my response.

At the end of the day, I find them both interesting, which is what matters. Both are more complex than flashcards and regurgitation.
The relative difficulties of the two are insanely irrelevant - you study what you find interesting. That being said, if it's being discussed, I still do have an opinion on that matter, as I found one to be far easier than the other even in 300 and 400 level courses...but just because I have an opinion on the topic doesn't meant that I feel it is an important distinction.

 

[onceawolverine]

Fair enough, I am sorry. For what it's worth, I got a similarly objectionable vibe from your first post in regards to your description of studying the science fields, hence the attitude in my response.

Ah, well, I definitely didn't intend to instigate objection, so my bad. Essentially agree with everything else.

 

[efle]

If that were the case, then I suppose the only "good" major would be physics, right? I mean, biology is pure memorization, chemistry is all concepts, math is plugging into formulas, and physics requires actual thinking, right?

Just because you may have taken an introductory psych class, I wouldnt go about degrading the major. Why don't you try taking a few upper-level psych classes before you make a judgement? Psych is very encompassing, and it even has some areas which focus on the biological basis of behavior. It's not as "easy" as you think; it also involves work, albeit more practical work that does not involve memorization alone. Just because the classes aren't curved doesn't make it easier or fluff.

My majors are Neuroscience and Psych, I've taken plenty of upper level coursework in areas you mention. At my school, it's fluff, both via higher average grades and often easier content. Still very interesting though

 

[Ace Khalifa]

My majors are Neuroscience and Psych, I've taken plenty of upper level coursework in areas you mention. At my school, it's fluff, both via higher average grades and often easier content. Still very interesting though

True dat. My cGPA wouldn't be nearly as high as it is if I hadn't minored in Psych and taken a bunch of those courses where rote memorization was all it took to get an A.

 

[knv2u]

Does this mean that classes in computer science may be able to count towards BCPM? I was always under the assumption that this was based solely on the dept. code, which excludes computer science, and I've thought that it's silly to not count this towards science/math.

The department codes are a guide but are not strictly binding. If the course content substantially involves biology, chemistry, physics, or math (including statistics) it satisfies the AMCAS definition. Also remember that you choose the designation on the application and it is final unless AMCAS challenges it. If it is challenged, just send the syllabus.

While computer science involves math, the course would need to be much more than 50% math or AMCAS will challenge your classification. If you took a course that was very heavy in linear algebra, I would classify it as such if the syllabus backs you up. The worst thing AMCAS will do is say no.

 

[knv2u]

My majors are Neuroscience and Psych, I've taken plenty of upper level coursework in areas you mention. At my school, it's fluff, both via higher average grades and often easier content. Still very interesting though

At my school it wasn't. And there were courses offered in psychology that I took that had substantial amounts of neuroanatomy and neurobiology that paralleled my other science courses. The non-psychobiology/neurobiology psychology courses did seem easier to me though.

 

[efle]

At my school it wasn't. And there were courses offered in psychology that I took that had substantial amounts of neuroanatomy and neurobiology that paralleled my other science courses. The non-psychobiology/neurobiology psychology courses did seem easier to me though.

Your argument is that psychology is harder when it's bio/neuroscience. I concur, that's been my point. Pure psych (cognitive psych, social psych, developmental, etc) that does not involve anatomy or physio is quite a bit easier

YMMV by university but my understanding is that this is true for most places

 

[Ismet]

Does this mean that classes in computer science may be able to count towards BCPM? I was always under the assumption that this was based solely on the dept. code, which excludes computer science, and I've thought that it's silly to not count this towards science/math.

Computer science is not BCPM, unless you're taking a class like computational neuroscience where you can count it as neuro.

Engineering classes aren't considered BCPM either. That's just how it works. If you google "AMCAS course classification guide" you'll find a 1-page listing of major course listings and which topics fall under BCPM. It's also in the AMCAS instruction manual.

 

[deleted446889]

I know psychology courses don't count, but I have heard that cognitive science courses do. Can anyone confirm/refute this?

 

[efle]

Neuroscience counts for BCPM, so if you have a cognitive neuroscience or similar class listed under both the psych and the bio/neuro codes you can count it.

 

[sunflower18]

I know psychology courses don't count, but I have heard that cognitive science courses do. Can anyone confirm/refute this?

I classified my cognitive neuroscience class as non-BCPM and AMCAS didn't change it.

 

[WillburCobb]

I know psychology courses don't count, but I have heard that cognitive science courses do. Can anyone confirm/refute this?

I listed the following Psych courses (they all had a PSYC prefix on my transcript) as BCPM and AMCAS didn't change them: Research Methods I, Research Methods II, Attention and Thinking, Experimental Design, Memory and Knowledge, Visual Perception, Biopsych, Intro to Neuro, and Cognitive Neuropsych. They did change Music History II to History but left Music History I as Fine Arts for whatever reason.