psychiatry LOR

[Wardles888]

for people applying to psychiatry, is it frowned upon to submit all four lor from psychiatrists?

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[Achillees]

if you are submitting 4 letters then yes at least one should be from a non-psychiatrist, preferably an IM, Peds or FM person as that is what you will be doing during internship. the exception would be if you are research track and the 4th letter is from your PI speaking to your research accomplishments. Also please check requirments, many places only want 3 letters, do not submit more than three if they want three. Other places include the MSPE as the fourth letter. some programs specify if they want a non-psychiatry letter etc. It would be very unusual for someone to submit 4 psych letters. The most important thing however is that the letters are from the people who know you best and can write you the strongest letters. However if a program specifically asks for a non-psych letter then do not ignore this.

I am also in this boat. Is it common for Psych residencies to specifically ask for non-psych letters?

 

[Achillees]

when i applied several programs certainly did. you should check the requirements of programs when they post the information in august.

let me put it this way, it would be much more common for someone to apply with no psych letters (which i wouldnt advise either) than all psych letters.

Oh wow, I had no idea. I am gearing up to apply and have been trying to amass Psych letters. I've been having trouble deciding between Psych and Neuro, and have planned to take electives in both during 4th year. I may ultimately apply to both. I suppose Neuro letters will do, in addition?

 

[splik]

yes that would be perfect- just make sure it says you are going into psychiatry! we don't look favorably on people who double apply.

 

[Achillees]

yes that would be perfect- just make sure it says you are going into psychiatry! we don't look favorably on people who double apply.

Trust me, I would rather not apply to both. My wallet would definitely be grateful. I actually got the idea of Neuropsych fellowship from you. I think that may sate my desire for Neurology, however I'm not entirely sure how my practice will differ from General Psychiatry.

 

[psychattending]

I believe that most programs want just 3 clinical letters for the routine applicant as we do not want to read 4. The 4th letter is for those individuals who are different, e.g. MD/PhD. I counsel my medical students that they should not all be from psych.

 

[MidwestMD2015]

My LORs were brought up (positively!) in probably half of my interview days this past interview season; it was nice to know they mattered.
The general rule of thumb for any LOR seemed true here too: people who know you well and can speak to qualities relevant to what you'd add to a residency program (work ethic, professionalism, 'most amazing medical student I've ever seen!', etc.)

At my institution, we were advised to have three letters: 2 from psychiatry faculty, with one preferably being from our home psychiatry Department Chair; and the third from another clinical faculty who knew us well--preferably from IM/FM/peds/neuro.

I was happy with the letters I sent; I requested a fourth but only sent it if a program requested a fourth letter. Mine were: 1) psychiatry dept. chair, 2) psychiatry clinical faculty (who I also had done research with), 3) family medicine clinical faculty, 4) neurology clinical faculty.

Good luck!

 

[Wardles888]

Thanks for the responses. So.e programs posted that they want letters from non psych faculty. Would a doctor i worked with in an outpatient settting who isnt hospital faculty be appropriate? He is in private practice. Would a doctor who i worked with wheb he wss chief but is now an attending be better?

 

[psychattending]

Should be attending level. Private practice is ok. The important parameter is whether you did enough work with the person for the person to write a meaningful letter.

 

[MacDonaldTriad]

Maybe we are a little loose about letters because I don’t see them as an effective discriminator very often. An impressive letter from a PhD mentor or a chair that puts some enthusiasm into writing one does stand out; otherwise they are OK, or death. 99% are OK. Letters with something negative are death, and not having a psych letter is a problem. I have never heard of anyone worried that there were too many psych letters. Don’t get letters from junior residents, or even senior residents. Maybe a chief resident would be OK, but marginal. It is also a problem when all of your letters are from the same private practice group (as revealed by the letterhead), and the surnames line up with the same ethnicity as the applicant.

“I have known Dr. X since he/she was born and I know he/she is of very high moral character. I have never worked with this person, nor have I observed their skills as a physician, but I know all about them because I have drunk a lot of beer with their father over many years.”

 

[Shikima]

It depends on the kind of beer which determines the quality of character.

 

[OldPsychDoc]

It depends on the kind of beer which determines the quality of character.

Really. I have no interest in training residents who think that Bud Light is beer.

 

[Mad Jack]

Maybe we are a little loose about letters because I don’t see them as an effective discriminator very often. An impressive letter from a PhD mentor or a chair that puts some enthusiasm into writing one does stand out; otherwise they are OK, or death. 99% are OK. Letters with something negative are death, and not having a psych letter is a problem. I have never heard of anyone worried that there were too many psych letters. Don’t get letters from junior residents, or even senior residents. Maybe a chief resident would be OK, but marginal. It is also a problem when all of your letters are from the same private practice group (as revealed by the letterhead), and the surnames line up with the same ethnicity as the applicant.

“I have known Dr. X since he/she was born and I know he/she is of very high moral character. I have never worked with this person, nor have I observed their skills as a physician, but I know all about them because I have drunk a lot of beer with their father over many years.”

That's scary- how often do people actually throw a negative comment in a letter? Is it a rarity? No one is without flaws, so I just worry that an inexperienced letter writer might bury my application on accident by trying to honestly assess my strengths and weaknesses lol. Letters have always worried me so much, they're the one thing that I feel is largely beyond my control.

 

[MacDonaldTriad]

It is very rare and that is why it holds some weight. The few times I'm asked to write a letter for someone I don't recommend, I refuse to do it. That is why agreeing to do it and then killing someone's chances is a loud statement. At the very least, it says something about the applicant's inability to read how they are perceived by others.