Question abour being approved for OON coverage

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liquidshadow22

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I have a small PP that is only cash based, however one of my patients petitioned their commercial insurance for them to cover my services despite me not being in network. The request was approved. I have never billed insurance directly and haven't set it up yet. Tried calling the insurance numerous times for assistance but it's just a huge time sink.

Would submitting the bills for this be exactly the same as if I was in network with the insurance. Not sure how to proceed.

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I have a small PP that is only cash based, however one of my patients petitioned their commercial insurance for them to cover my services despite me not being in network. The request was approved. I have never billed insurance directly and haven't set it up yet. Tried calling the insurance numerous times for assistance but it's just a huge time sink.

Would submitting the bills for this be exactly the same as if I was in network with the insurance. Not sure how to proceed.

Could you not charge them, provide the patient with an itemized bill, and have them submit it for reimbursement themselves?
 
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Thanks for your response. im approved for "pay at highest in network benefit". Not sure what they pay per code, the letter from insurance does not disclose this.

The other issue is that the patient does not have a lot of funds so not sure if the patient would be able to/willingto provide the cash.
 
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Thanks for your response. im approved for "pay at highest in network benefit". Not sure what they pay per code, the letter from insurance does not disclose this.

The other issue is that the patient does not have a lot of funds so not sure if the patient would be able to/willingto provide the cash.

All this means is that the patient can file for reimbursement and they will get paid back even though you are OON for them and they have no OON benefits at all. Typically, this is not the case.

It's still your patient's job to file for OON paperwork to get the partial reimbursement. That is, after they paid you. Whether the patient has a lot of funds or not is not relevant to whether they are able to file for reimbursement paperwork.
 
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Yes I understand that they can file for reimbursement but the patient has limited funds so I'm not sure if they will agree to pay me $300 directly for an intake even if they have a good chance of getting most of it reimbursed by their insurance after they submit a superbill.

Also don't even know how much I can charge the patient without incurring costs above what is covered by the insurance.
 
Yes I understand that they can file for reimbursement but the patient has limited funds so I'm not sure if they will agree to pay me $300 directly for an intake even if they have a good chance of getting most of it reimbursed by their insurance after they submit a superbill.

Also don't even know how much I can charge the patient without incurring costs above what is covered by the insurance.

Also are you saying that because I'm an out of network provider I would never bill in the insurance directly regardless and the honus will always be on the patient in these circumstances?
 
Also are you saying that because I'm an out of network provider I would never bill in the insurance directly regardless and the honus will always be on the patient in these circumstances?

Yes, the onus of paperwork falls on the patient. OON means exactly that - you don't interact with the insurance company's network. You provide the bill to the patient, the insurance company decides what they will pay, and the patient is on the hook for the rest. Practically you do this by charging the patient whatever you are going to charge and then they file for reimbursement; this will rarely be 100% of what you charged them.

OON benefits work decently as a mechanism for defraying the cost of out of pocket services for people who do have some disposable income. It is not going to function well as a mechanism for eliminating any cost to the patient. I tell my self-pay folks about OON reimbursement but frame it as the cherry on top that might make me a bit less pricey, but they really shouldn't be seeing you if they can't afford to come up with the full freight in the event that for whatever reason the insurer decides to reject the reimbursement. It's not doing anyone any favors to turn having to pay to see you into a crisis for them.

It's a bit like loaning money to a friend. Just assume the money you pay out of pocket is gone. If OON gets you some of it back, great, don't spend it all in one place. But that's an unexpected bonus, not what you count on.
 
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Yes I understand that they can file for reimbursement but the patient has limited funds so I'm not sure if they will agree to pay me $300 directly for an intake even if they have a good chance of getting most of it reimbursed by their insurance after they submit a superbill.

Also don't even know how much I can charge the patient without incurring costs above what is covered by the insurance.

That's a separate issue. Everyone has limited funds. If they don't agree to pay you you are SOL whether they can get reimbursed later or not.
 
I have a small PP that is only cash based, however one of my patients petitioned their commercial insurance for them to cover my services despite me not being in network. The request was approved. I have never billed insurance directly and haven't set it up yet. Tried calling the insurance numerous times for assistance but it's just a huge time sink.

Would submitting the bills for this be exactly the same as if I was in network with the insurance. Not sure how to proceed.

I have a patient with this set-up. Yes, submitting the claims works the same. It's as if you are in-network for this specific person. If you don't do your own billing and/or not used to billing insurnace, this will probably be a hassle.
 
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I have a patient with this set-up. Yes, submitting the claims works the same. It's as if you are in-network for this specific person. If you don't do your own billing and/or not used to billing insurnace, this will probably be a hassle.
I can generate superbills that's it, I was considering participating with insurance so was thinking of enabling e billing with my emr..
 
Could you not charge them, provide the patient with an itemized bill, and have them submit it for reimbursement themselves?

Sorry I actually misread this initially. So you're saying take no money up front from the patient, and just give them the superbill to submit to their insurance? Would the insurance send a check back to the patient most likely, that hopefully the patient would send me haha?
 
Sorry I actually misread this initially. So you're saying take no money up front from the patient, and just give them the superbill to submit to their insurance? Would the insurance send a check back to the patient most likely, that hopefully the patient would send me haha?

That would be a terrible idea.
 
Sorry I actually misread this initially. So you're saying take no money up front from the patient, and just give them the superbill to submit to their insurance? Would the insurance send a check back to the patient most likely, that hopefully the patient would send me haha?

No. Dude you need to learn more about how billing works or else you’re gonna get screwed being in your own PP.

1) Patient pays you for appointment (whatever your usual rate is, UNCHANGED from your rate for everyone else)
2) you give patient a super bill for PATIENT to submit to insurance company
3) Patient gets cut a check for whatever reimbursement their insurance company will give them (so if you charge 300 for an intake and insurance covers 125 the patient will only get reimbursed the 125)
4) If the patient is pissed, sucks to be them. They can either find someone in their insurance network to see or keep paying you and getting partially reimbursed

This is just a way to defray the costs for the patient by having any OON benefits as noted above rather than insurance covering 0 dollars because you’re not in their network.

The only reason you change how much you bill the patient is if you have a big heart and really want to see them. However keep in mind with that situation that you’re essentially now in network with the insurance company for income purposes. For instance, if the insurance network drops their followup reimbursement from 100 bucks to 80 bucks next year, you’ve already set the precedent with the patient that you’ll only charge what the insurance will cover and dont have much wiggle room to change that.
 
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No. Dude you need to learn more about how billing works or else you’re gonna get screwed being in your own PP.

1) Patient pays you for appointment (whatever your usual rate is, UNCHANGED from your rate for everyone else)
2) you give patient a super bill for PATIENT to submit to insurance company
3) Patient gets cut a check for whatever reimbursement their insurance company will give them (so if you charge 300 for an intake and insurance covers 125 the patient will only get reimbursed the 125)
4) If the patient is pissed, sucks to be them. They can either find someone in their insurance network to see or keep paying you and getting partially reimbursed

This is just a way to defray the costs for the patient by having any OON benefits as noted above rather than insurance covering 0 dollars because you’re not in their network.

The only reason you change how much you bill the patient is if you have a big heart and really want to see them. However keep in mind with that situation that you’re essentially now in network with the insurance company for income purposes. For instance, if the insurance network drops their followup reimbursement from 100 bucks to 80 bucks next year, you’ve already set the precedent with the patient that you’ll only charge what the insurance will cover and dont have much wiggle room to change that.

Yes I already do what you are suggesting for 100% of my current patients. I am changing my rate for this patient only.

I want to see this pt and pt has limited funds to disburse and my practice is still quite small, so I don't mind seeing her for an in network rate. Pt was only approved for like 6 months anyways. What's to stop me from saying, sorry can't take the in network rate after that time? I don't have any binding contract since I'm out of network technically.
 
Yes I already do what you are suggesting for 100% of my current patients. I am changing my rate for this patient only.

I want to see this pt and pt has limited funds to disburse and my practice is still quite small, so I don't mind seeing her for an in network rate. Pt was only approved for like 6 months anyways. What's to stop me from saying, sorry can't take the in network rate after that time? I don't have any binding contract since I'm out of network technically.

So nothing contractually obligates you to keep accepting that, just like nothing binding stops you from suddenly jacking your cash rates for your other patients by 300% six months from now. But how much is this patient going to benefit from being under your care if you plan to kick them to the curb in six months? Do they know that they have to act now to take advantage of this amazing introductory rate?
 
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So nothing contractually obligates you to keep accepting that, just like nothing binding stops you from suddenly jacking your cash rates for your other patients by 300% six months from now. But how much is this patient going to benefit from being under your care if you plan to kick them to the curb in six months? Do they know that they have to act now to take advantage of this amazing introductory rate?

I have no idea what the rate that I will be paid is so impossible to judge what would be acceptable longterm. Also pt was more interested in diagnostic evaluation than treatment per say
 
Yes I already do what you are suggesting for 100% of my current patients. I am changing my rate for this patient only.

I want to see this pt and pt has limited funds to disburse and my practice is still quite small, so I don't mind seeing her for an in network rate. Pt was only approved for like 6 months anyways. What's to stop me from saying, sorry can't take the in network rate after that time? I don't have any binding contract since I'm out of network technically.

why do you want to see this patient so badly?
 
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I have had to clarify with payors that I am out of network with that I "do not accept assignment" so that they don't send the reimbursement checks to me - they need to send them directly to the patient. I stay out of all contracts with third parties.
 
I have no idea what the rate that I will be paid is so impossible to judge what would be acceptable longterm. Also pt was more interested in diagnostic evaluation than treatment per say

Even more reason to say 'here is what I charge, I'll give you what you need to submit for reimbursement but that's on you'. Prepare for haggling and for the money to be a constant point of cotention otherwise
 
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Even more reason to say 'here is what I charge, I'll give you what you need to submit for reimbursement but that's on you'. Prepare for haggling and for the money to be a constant point of cotention otherwise

I tried that already and pt decided to petition the insurance which has led to current situation. I've already seen the pt once for a cash visit, then decided not to followup due to financial issues and I don't mind continuing to see as long as I can get some reasonable payment for visits
 
I tried that already and pt decided to petition the insurance which has led to current situation. I've already seen the pt once for a cash visit, then decided not to followup due to financial issues and I don't mind continuing to see as long as I can get some reasonable payment for visits

I think what we've been trying to convey to you is that you don't have to change what you're doing at all. You can continue to charge the same rate and the patient can keep filing insurance reimbursement requests. Just means they're going to get reimbursed better. You never signed any agreements with this insurance company.
 
Yeah--I was like this when I started out in PP, and a senior clinician remarked to me that there are two aspects that should psychologically separate in PP, which now having had more time in PP I agree with:

1. what does the patient need clinically in an optimal scenario: is it a one-time eval, is it ongoing treatment, what's the modality of treatment, etc.
2. what is the financially feasible context with which the treatment is delivered, is it medicaid clinic, is it an insurance-based practice, is it a cash combined treatment

When you don't have a lot of patients, psychologically you want to hold on to every dollar, but the "correct" way to do things is to have a uniform policy. People who can't afford your services, in general, shouldn't be in your practice. And I am talking about this strictly on pragmatics. If you are not filling fast enough then you should just drop your rates altogether for every intake until you fill faster. Sporadic fee adjustments are very confusing and cause confusing countertransference.

As an extension, IMO sliding scale fee schedules are totally fine, but should also have hard criteria rather than being "case by case". Ethically, you want to avoid the treatment-interfering psychological pitfall of oh I gave you a special so you are financially demeaned to me--meanwhile, the patient's a borderline so tries to extract every favor from your to keep you on your toe through self victimizing.

The most challenging cases by far I have had are people who complain about cost from day 1. This is actually a good filtering mechanism. This is why Louis Vuitton and Burberry never have sales--so how do they price their products? They price by examining the market as a whole. You want to exude quality. Quality doesn't haggle.
 
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Hell, why see any patients at all right?

I think everyone here is just concerned this is going to be an unnecessary thorn in your side going forward. When you start making exceptions for certain people too, it also just starts getting complicated. This might get kinda messy at the 6 month mark when the insurance stops reimbursing the patient but now they actually decide they want to keep seeing you and you’re saying yeah but you can’t pay. You may get put in the sticky situation of having to provide care that will be essentially free for a few visits while he/she is referred elsewhere and documenting this all thoroughly to avoid this person complaining to the board about abandonment.

I’d definitely have any unusual or modified plan you put in place for this patient spelled out extremely explicitly and signed by them.
 
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I think what we've been trying to convey to you is that you don't have to change what you're doing at all. You can continue to charge the same rate and the patient can keep filing insurance reimbursement requests. Just means they're going to get reimbursed better. You never signed any agreements with this insurance company.

the patient has told me that they essentially have no funds to give me (not working currently). So do not expect them to agree to pay my normal rates.
 
the patient has told me that they essentially have no funds to give me (not working currently). So do not expect them to agree to pay my normal rates.

you are free to charge them whatever you want or $0. Do what you want. Trying to chase this particular insurance rate is a waste of your time.
 
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If you have an insurance based practice, accepting assignment for OON is fine if the doctor wants to..... for cash practice just provide superbill and do not deal directly with insurance companies
 
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With my patient, I took their payment and reimbursed them when the insurance company sent the check. There was an issue where one visit wasn't covered and they offered to front that money. I told them to wait until it sorted out. It did.

I trust patients a little more because I see them more frequently in a more therapy-like frame. Yea, I've been burned here and there. The types of patients I see have been for the most part honest. This is one reason I avoid high volume, low-frequency follow-up, medication management patients. There would be a tenuous relationship and I'd have to rely more on "clinic policy" policing. Then again, practices do with this with the front-office front.
 
If you have an insurance based practice, accepting assignment for OON is fine if the doctor wants to..... for cash practice just provide superbill and do not deal directly with insurance companies

Being cash only, I have a notice that I don't accept assignment in all caps on the Superbill, as many insurance companies have continued to send me checks even though I was already paid directly by the patient, leading to a lot of annoying phone calls back to the company. A real time sink.
 
Sorry I actually misread this initially. So you're saying take no money up front from the patient, and just give them the superbill to submit to their insurance? Would the insurance send a check back to the patient most likely, that hopefully the patient would send me haha?

Lol, no no. I meant charge them and collect up front. Wasn't sure why you weren't just following the usual protocol, but understand now.

Hell, why see any patients at all right?

I mean, it's a valid question. Obviously you're considering making a special exception from your standard (I'm assuming) cash-only protocol for this patient that you (probably) have not done for other patients in the past. It does kind of beg the question why, though I guess the reasoning is not likely to be pertinent to the aspect of billing.
 
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