Question about Navy residency program

[coolleoboy]

Hi I am currently a third year HPSP dental student. I have some questions regarding the Periodontist Residency program.
1) when is the best time to apply?
2) how is the resident program at the Navy dental school? Do I also have the option to apply for any other schools?
3) How much financial advantage is there for a periodontist vs. GP? What officer rank would a pedodontist be?
Thank you

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[vellnueve]

1) During your third year
2) It's challenging but pretty good, expect to have a heavy didactic curriculum.
3) The DOMRB is $30K per year for a 4 year contract, in addition to the standard dental pays. As for the rank of a pedodontist (did you mean periodontist?) the last chief, Dental Corps, RADM(s) Wagner, was just selected for her second star, but expect to be a LT for your first 6 years.

 

[coolleoboy]

1) During your third year
2) It's challenging but pretty good, expect to have a heavy didactic curriculum.
3) The DOMRB is $30K per year for a 4 year contract, in addition to the standard dental pays. As for the rank of a pedodontist (did you mean periodontist?) the last chief, Dental Corps, RADM(s) Wagner, was just selected for her second star, but expect to be a LT for your first 6 years.

Thank you very much for your replying. I have a couple follow up questions.
So if I do a perio program that means I would have three more years to stay in the Navy right? What if I do a oral surgery residency, do I need to serve extra years too? I know some school pays the oral surgery residents, so that means I dont need the Navy to pay for the residency, I feel it does not make sense if the Navy ask residents to serve extra years if they are not paying the tuition.
And for the salary, if I understood correctly, periodontist got paid $30K extra than an O3 general dentist officer in the Navy?
Thanks again

 

[vellnueve]

Every residency will incur at least 2 years of additional obligated service, and if you do an outservice residency it will be added to your current commitment - you will receive military pay and not be allowed to receive pay from the residency.
A periodontist will make 30K more per year AFTER your commitment is complete, if you sign for 4 more years.

 

[coolleoboy]

so if I do a oral surgery residency in a Navy school, does that add extra years to my commitment, like another four or five extra years of service?

 

[Tooth]

so if I do a oral surgery residency in a Navy school, does that add extra years to my commitment, like another four or five extra years of service?

I've got some different information for you.

First, the DOMRB is $50K, not $30K but it doesn't matter because you're disqualified from receiving it anyway because the DOMRB is part of the Legacy Special Pays Plan and you will be under the Consolidated Special Pays Plan. More bad news to follow.

When you supersede to LT upon graduation, you have to wait 90 days before you are eligible for the IP bonus, currently $20K per year. I'll get back to why this 90 days is worse than you think later.

At this time, the DoD has not created a Consolidated Special Pays Plan for specialists, just for general dentists. Until they do so, you will only qualify for the general dentist retention bonus which is $25K per year for a 4 year commitment. That's right, you'll be a specialist but only getting the retention bonus of a general dentist who didn't do a specialty or incur any more educational obligation. This is the current status of the consolidated special pays plan. I understand that they expect to construct a consolidated special pays plan for specialists in the coming years but it hasn't happened yet and it's been 2 years already. I understand they haven't done so yet because they "don't know where they're going to get the $ to pay for it." Regardless, you would have to serve several years in residency and pay back before you would qualify for a retention bonus anyway, so you have many many years to hope for them to realize the cluster f#%* they have created and remedy it. That being said, they may decide they want to keep things as they are. It's a gamble you have to decide for yourself if it's worth taking.

I think it's important to note that you won't qualify for any retention bonus until you have completed all of your educational obligation and then decide to sign up for more. Many students think they will get the bonus as soon as they're a specialist. These are retention bonuses.

Let's get back to the 90 day thing. Assuming you graduate in May/June from dental school you won't be able to get your IP bonus until Aug/Sep. When you sign up for that bonus, it will cost you 1 year of service obligation from that date. This is massively important because while your service obligation will be over in June/July (the calendar month after your superseded) you inherit an IP bonus obligation date of Aug/Sep throughout your career. This means that if you want to get out and do a civilian program, let's say using the GI Bill, you will either have to forfeit your IP bonus the last year so that you can get out in time for your program to start (a loss of $20K) or you will have to get out of the military and delay going into a residency until the following year (a total mess). That's because residency programs usually start in June/July. I'm not sure if this was intentional, but it probably was. What a great way to screw resigning LT's out of $20K. Furthermore, you will have to make the decision to not take the IP bonus that last year before you find out if you are accepted or not into a specialty program. So, if you don't match, you lost $20K for nothing. The IP bonus cannot be issued with a retroactive date.

To get back to your original question, if you do a military oral surgery program, yes you incur more educational obligation but it is served back concurrently with any other educational obligation you may have. A civilian program, sponsored by the military, will incur a consecutive obligation.

 

[vellnueve]

By the time he finishes his commitment the new plan should be in place, I've been hearing FY-17.

Regarding your second to last paragraph, the instruction does allow for a voluntary separation from service (with approval, of course). If that happens you would have to pay back the unearned portion. The detailers should have a few weeks of play one way or the other if needed. The other option would be just to save enough leave to cover most of that time between residency start and active service termination. That said, it's good that you brought up those points.

 

[Tooth]

By the time he finishes his commitment the new plan should be in place, I've been hearing FY-17.

Regarding your second to last paragraph, the instruction does allow for a voluntary separation from service (with approval, of course). If that happens you would have to pay back the unearned portion. The detailers should have a few weeks of play one way or the other if needed. The other option would be just to save enough leave to cover most of that time between residency start and active service termination. That said, it's good that you brought up those points.

 

[coolleoboy]

Thanks for the info. So seems like it's a bad deal to do specialty program right after dental school if I have HPSP. Maybe it's better to do it after I complete my four year Navy service?

 

[Tooth]

Thanks for the info. So seems like it's a bad deal to do specialty program right after dental school if I have HPSP. Maybe it's better to do it after I complete my four year Navy service?

Not if you plan to take advantage of concurrent payback. You're also getting paid to do a residency, no loans which beats any private sector residency. If they don't fix special pays, it would be a very easy decision for you to get out before signing up for a general dentist retention bonus. I highly encourage applying to residency during your junior year of dental school via DUINS, as long as you choose a navy program. If you wait until you're already in, you'll have to wait until your orders line up for a residency program which will eat away at any possibility of maximizing concurrent payback.

 

[coolleoboy]

How exactly can I maximize concurrent payback?

 

[coolleoboy]

I read this and I would like to have some confirmation. Lets say i will apply for the perio program in the Navy and i get in. After I graduate from dental school, I will start my sevice in the Navy as a general dentist for a year, then starts my residency which will last three years, then I will serve another three years which concurrently payback both HPSP and residency years? So totally it's four years active duty plus three years residency. Seven years totaly then I fulfilled my contract?

 

[vellnueve]

If you apply and get in your junior year you will go straight into residency after school, otherwise you are correct.

 

[coolslugs]

I've got some different information for you.

First, the DOMRB is $50K, not $30K but it doesn't matter because you're disqualified from receiving it anyway because the DOMRB is part of the Legacy Special Pays Plan and you will be under the Consolidated Special Pays Plan. More bad news to follow.

When you supersede to LT upon graduation, you have to wait 90 days before you are eligible for the IP bonus, currently $20K per year. I'll get back to why this 90 days is worse than you think later.

At this time, the DoD has not created a Consolidated Special Pays Plan for specialists, just for general dentists. Until they do so, you will only qualify for the general dentist retention bonus which is $25K per year for a 4 year commitment. That's right, you'll be a specialist but only getting the retention bonus of a general dentist who didn't do a specialty or incur any more educational obligation. This is the current status of the consolidated special pays plan. I understand that they expect to construct a consolidated special pays plan for specialists in the coming years but it hasn't happened yet and it's been 2 years already. I understand they haven't done so yet because they "don't know where they're going to get the $ to pay for it." Regardless, you would have to serve several years in residency and pay back before you would qualify for a retention bonus anyway, so you have many many years to hope for them to realize the cluster f#%* they have created and remedy it. That being said, they may decide they want to keep things as they are. It's a gamble you have to decide for yourself if it's worth taking.

I think it's important to note that you won't qualify for any retention bonus until you have completed all of your educational obligation and then decide to sign up for more. Many students think they will get the bonus as soon as they're a specialist. These are retention bonuses.

Let's get back to the 90 day thing. Assuming you graduate in May/June from dental school you won't be able to get your IP bonus until Aug/Sep. When you sign up for that bonus, it will cost you 1 year of service obligation from that date. This is massively important because while your service obligation will be over in June/July (the calendar month after your superseded) you inherit an IP bonus obligation date of Aug/Sep throughout your career. This means that if you want to get out and do a civilian program, let's say using the GI Bill, you will either have to forfeit your IP bonus the last year so that you can get out in time for your program to start (a loss of $20K) or you will have to get out of the military and delay going into a residency until the following year (a total mess). That's because residency programs usually start in June/July. I'm not sure if this was intentional, but it probably was. What a great way to screw resigning LT's out of $20K. Furthermore, you will have to make the decision to not take the IP bonus that last year before you find out if you are accepted or not into a specialty program. So, if you don't match, you lost $20K for nothing. The IP bonus cannot be issued with a retroactive date.

To get back to your original question, if you do a military oral surgery program, yes you incur more educational obligation but it is served back concurrently with any other educational obligation you may have. A civilian program, sponsored by the military, will incur a consecutive obligation.

Can you qualify for the IP bonus while in a specialty program?

 

[Tooth]

Can you qualify for the IP bonus while in a specialty program?

I don't know for sure. But, there is an excerpt from the attachment above that says "A General Dentist is eligible for IP if he or she ...possesses an unrestricted license or approved waiver and must be credentialed and privileged at a military treatment facility and practicing as a General Dentist." So are you practicing as a general dentist during your residency program? I think there's an argument there that indicates no.

 

[Tooth]

How exactly can I maximize concurrent payback?

The best way to maximize concurrent payback is by going into a military (in-service) residency straight out of dental school. Do not fool yourself into thinking that it's better to wait until after you've served a year or two. That just eats away at a year or two of concurrent payback years. It is in your best interest to at least apply to do a military residency straight out of dental school to maximize concurrent payback. And like I said earlier, you are more likely to get in than someone just one year into their service because your "orders line up" and theirs don't. They will automatically disqualify applicants whose "orders don't line up".

 

[Tiankum]

Can you qualify for the IP bonus while in a specialty program?

Yes

 

[coolleoboy]

what is the difference between applying residency through DUINS and not through DUINS? and exactly how do I start applying for residency in the Navy, any links?
Much appreciated

 

[Tooth]

what is the difference between applying residency through DUINS and not through DUINS? and exactly how do I start applying for residency in the Navy, any links?
Much appreciated

It's in the Weekly Dental Update (WDU). You should be receiving them by email. The announcement for the application cycle comes out every February. I believe it's called BUMEDNOTE 1520. So, if you are currently a junior, you want to apply this February-April time frame. The DUINS results will come out in June. If you are selected to receive training in the field you chose they may ask you if you want to do an in-service or out-service program. In your case, you would be crazy to take an out-service program for reasons we have already mentioned. However, if you're the best applicant, they may pressure you to apply out-service because you have the best chance at matching in the private sector. Yes, you would be a victim of your own success and then be "authorized" to have to apply to all the programs you want on your own dime like any other student. The main difference would be that the Navy would pick up the tab, they keep paying you like you're on AD, the time counts toward retirement, and your commitment is consecutive.

If you apply to residency programs without applying first through DUINS, the Navy will not care that you got accepted anywhere. You will not be allowed to go. You must be authorized via DUINS first. I've seen this happen. Don't be that guy.

 

[coolleoboy]

Thanks again. In regard to the letters of evaluations, I read "It is suggested that at least one letter be written by a dental officer in the specialty area requested for training." I don't really know any Navy dental officers. Any ideas on how to get in touch with them?

 

[Tooth]

Thanks again. In regard to the letters of evaluations, I read "It is suggested that at least one letter be written by a dental officer in the specialty area requested for training." I don't really know any Navy dental officers. Any ideas on how to get in touch with them?

This includes retirees. Are any of the faculty ex-military at your dental school or maybe you could find a retiree who's in private practice in your area? You could shadow them for awhile. Even if you're on active duty this is a hard requirement. It sucks asking for LoR's.

 

[UFRalo]

Is there any recent news about NADDS or is this program being phased out?

 

[Tooth]

Is there any recent news about NADDS or is this program being phased out?

I have never heard of or met any dental officer who is or ever was on NADDS. Getting an in-service spot is far superior to this option due to better compensation and concurrent payback. However, NADDS would be far better than doing an out-service, sponsored, program with consecutive payback.

 

[coolleoboy]

I just talked to a Navy reserve dentist who is also a faculty at my school. He said it is very difficult to get a Navy oral surgery or periodontist residency program right after dental school because they will first pick the people who are on active duty and have served a few years. Do you agree?

 

[UFRalo]

I have never heard of or met any dental officer who is or ever was on NADDS. Getting an in-service spot is far superior to this option due to better compensation and concurrent payback. However, NADDS would be far better than doing an out-service, sponsored, program with consecutive payback.

Yeah, I was interested in NADDS because I am thinking about Pedo as a specialty, but I haven't been able to reach anyone via email or telephone. I also am considering applying for a GPR and then Pedo later, but obviously that puts me at risk of waiting a while for a spot to open up.

 

[Tooth]

I just talked to a Navy reserve dentist who is also a faculty at my school. He said it is very difficult to get a Navy oral surgery or periodontist residency program right after dental school because they will first pick the people who are on active duty and have served a few years. Do you agree?

Of course they will want someone who has some time under their belt. Unfortunately, if your orders don't line up it doesn't matter. What I'm saying is it's in your best interest to try during your junior year of DS because your orders will easily line up. If you go on AD first, you won't get a chance to try again until a couple years have past when your orders line up again. And by then, you've lost a portion of your concurrent payback possibilities.

 

[Tooth]

Yeah, I was interested in NADDS because I am thinking about Pedo as a specialty, but I haven't been able to reach anyone via email or telephone. I also am considering applying for a GPR and then Pedo later, but obviously that puts me at risk of waiting a while for a spot to open up.

Just apply for Pedo via DUINS anyway. If you don't get picked up, you can still apply for a GPR because that application process happens separately and after the DUINS results come out. No one will think of you less for it. I've met a LT who got into a PEDS program right out of dental school sponsored by the Navy. Unfortunately his payback will be concurrent. By all means, if you get selected for Pedo scream bloody murder that you want NADDS. Someone should be able to get you into the right hands.

 

[UFRalo]

Just apply for Pedo via DUINS anyway. If you don't get picked up, you can still apply for a GPR because that application process happens separately and after the DUINS results come out. No one will think of you less for it. I've met a LT who got into a PEDS program right out of dental school sponsored by the Navy. Unfortunately his payback will be concurrent. By all means, if you get selected for Pedo scream bloody murder that you want NADDS. Someone should be able to get you into the right hands.

Haha, sounds good. Thanks for the info!

 

[Nat426]

If you apply and get in your junior year you will go straight into residency after school, otherwise you are correct.

What if you apply to a residency your 4th year of dental school? Do you wait one year before starting and if so, what do you do during that year.

 

[Tooth]

What if you apply to a residency your 4th year of dental school? Do you wait one year before starting and if so, what do you do during that year.

The problem is that when you get orders, they're usually for 2-3 years depending if it's overseas or if you have dependents. So if you get orders your fourth year before you apply for a residency, they won't even consider you because your orders don't line up to enter the program on time.

Now there is such a thing as a credentialing tour which is generally one year, however, the orders are still written for 2-3 years. That's why you want to apply during your junior year.

 

[vellnueve]

The problem is that when you get orders, they're usually for 2-3 years depending if it's overseas or if you have dependents. So if you get orders your fourth year before you apply for a residency, they won't even consider you because your orders don't line up to enter the program on time.

Now there is such a thing as a credentialing tour which is generally one year, however, the orders are still written for 2-3 years. That's why you want to apply during your junior year.

I've seen several cases of people who were accepted in their 4th year and then stashed somewhere for a year doing GD.

I disagree with your statement about credentialing tours usually being 2-3 year orders overall - from what I've seen that rule only really holds true at CP and CL. With that said, we have several credentialers at my current command who have been extended, I assume in order to save money.

 

[Nat426]

The main reason I ask is they are changing to comp program start date to July 1st vs Aug 1st which doesn't allow for ODS after graduation. I'm not sure if more residency programs are doing the same thing. I'm in my 3rd year and planning on applying, but if I am accepted but my school won't let me do 5 wks ODS training during 4th year i'm not sure what would happen from there.

 

[vellnueve]

Ask the specialty leader, they may or may not be able to accommodate a late arrival.

As for doing the training during school, a lot of schools will allow for students to do so, but I suppose all you can do is ask. I would imagine that if you are ahead on your requirements for graduation that you will have a better chance.

 

[caffeine jitters]

Sorry to revive an old thread - when applying to residency programs through DUINS as a D3, is it possible to apply for both FTIS and NADDS spots?

Also, it sounds like NADDS would be similar to FTOS in the sense that you would only be given permission to apply to civilian programs. Do I have that right?

 

[vellnueve]

NADDS is not offered most years. And that is correct.