question about salary

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

healthguy44

New Member
10+ Year Member
15+ Year Member
Joined
Dec 17, 2006
Messages
2
Reaction score
0
Hello
I am a pre dental guy. Question is:

My cousin is a pharmacist (just graduated this year-only 23 years) and works at Walmart and makes a salary of $125,000 with an additional signing bonus of $20k=$145k.
She gets full benefits, has no insurance to pay, and works 40hrs week. How do these places pay these pharmacist soo much? What do they do??, tech does the work.
Dentists at least produces and associate get 1/3.


JUST curious

Members don't see this ad.
 
Hello
I am a pre dental guy. Question is:

My cousin is a pharmacist (just graduated this year-only 23 years) and works at Walmart and makes a salary of $125,000 with an additional signing bonus of $20k=$145k.
She gets full benefits, has no insurance to pay, and works 40hrs week. How do these places pay these pharmacist soo much? What do they do??, tech does the work.
Dentists at least produces and associate get 1/3.


JUST curious

I would ask the pharmacist section. But choose your words wisely!! They'll most likely take offense to whatever you say.

But I have 2 ideas why they're paid so much.

1) They are gigantic knowledge banks for drugs. They believe they know more than physicians in regards to pharm knowledge...which better be true because that's their job. Point is, they are a last line of defense in making sure physicians are giving the appropriate drug to the patient's needs and hoping to prevent interactions with other meds on file.

2) Lets say it takes 3 Pharms to keep a pharmacy open 24 hours a day. That $140k*3=$420 a year to keep pharms around plus the taxes and health care that goes with it. Well, pharms are also the boss of the pharmacy, they are often the customer last speaks with, they get asked questions regarding over the counter, blah blah blah...but basically what it comes down to is it kinda cheap to have the pharmacist (who is highly educated) doing all that. It looks very good on the pharmacy's part to have such a (hopefully) "smart" person doing all that. It brings in substantial confidence from customers which leads to what is ultimately important, increased prescription refill and sales.

But could you really do that every day of the year? Not me...but for some it's great. I'd love to be 23 and making that kind of dollar. O yeah, there loan is usually TINY relative to the dental loans.

Side note...pharmacists are poised to take a much much larger role in health care. They've even set themselves up to do so by making all pharmacists Pharm.D. grads. What does that mean??? Supposed to call your pharmacist Dr. xxxxxxxxxx.
 
I personally would be much more comfortable knowing that the pharmacist I work with has at least the same level of knowledge and expertise in their field as I do in mine. Dr. xxxxx, PharmD makes perfect sense to me.
On another note, I personally think your friend is stretching her story just a it. It does not make sense for a pharmacist out of school, mind you at Walmart of all places, to be paid that high. She does not have a PharmD even as I assume.
I think that's how much she would like you to think she makes. But again, that's just me. I am no pharmacist.
I agree with most of what the previous poster had to say as well. Pharmacists are setting themselves, and it's about time, for playing a larger role in healthcare providing for our patients.

Hello
I am a pre dental guy. Question is:

My cousin is a pharmacist (just graduated this year-only 23 years) and works at Walmart and makes a salary of $125,000 with an additional signing bonus of $20k=$145k.
She gets full benefits, has no insurance to pay, and works 40hrs week. How do these places pay these pharmacist soo much? What do they do??, tech does the work.
Dentists at least produces and associate get 1/3.


JUST curious
 
Members don't see this ad :)
I am a pharmacist that graduated with a pharmD, who is about to graduate dental school in May. The salary that was listed in the above reply could be accurate. In retail pharmacy there is no real differnce in pay. As for the comparison to knowledge about drugs we do know more about drugs than physicians, but the physicians do have a better handle on the drugs that they perscribe on a daily basis. What I mean by this is a cardiologist will know more about heart medications than a pharamacist because the heart is his or her speicialty.
 
I personally would be much more comfortable knowing that the pharmacist I work with has at least the same level of knowledge and expertise in their field as I do in mine. Dr. xxxxx, PharmD makes perfect sense to me.
On another note, I personally think your friend is stretching her story just a it. It does not make sense for a pharmacist out of school, mind you at Walmart of all places, to be paid that high. She does not have a PharmD even as I assume.
I think that's how much she would like you to think she makes. But again, that's just me. I am no pharmacist.
I agree with most of what the previous poster had to say as well. Pharmacists are setting themselves, and it's about time, for playing a larger role in healthcare providing for our patients.

True in regards to the salary...it is hard to believe a 23 yo is making that much. If you look at the averages, that is on the high end...you'd think it would take a few years to get to that level. She may also be working the night shift, that may fetch a few more dollars.
 
Thats an avg salary for a retail pharmacist. I know b/c my dad was the manager of a kmart for 30+yrs and said the pharms were the highest paid employees. The problem is that the salary will never get much larger like it can with a dentist. Plus, you have to work at Wal-mart (that has to suck).
 
Hello


My cousin is a pharmacist (just graduated this year-only 23 years) and works at Walmart and makes a salary of $125,000 with an additional signing bonus of $20k=$145k.
She gets full benefits, has no insurance to pay, and works 40hrs week.

JUST curious



This is very good news! My younger son is a first year pharmacy student in an 0-6 PharmD program. He will be 24 when he graduates. He thinks he will do retail pharmacy for a while especially to pay off some of the debt he incurs from his last two years in the program; we're covering his first four. But after that he is excited and interested in doing clinical pharmacy. From my limited understanding this is where pharmacists make rounds with the doctors in hospitals to help determine courses of medications for patients. Pharmacy sounds like a growing and rewarding field. Best wishes to you and your cousin.:luck:
 
O yeah, there loan is usually TINY relative to the dental loans.

This is especially true if you decide on this profession as a senior in high school. Then you can apply to 0-6, six year, Pharm D programs. If you wait until you get a bachelors degree, you may have to go back to get pre-reqs done depending on your undergrad major, in addition to four years of pharmacy school. The 0-6 Pharm D programs are very competitive as are the post baccalaureate Pharm D programs.


Side note...pharmacists are poised to take a much much larger role in health care.

Wizziefiend, I think you are correct.
 
If you look at lifetime earning there's no comparison. I'm not saying it because it's my motivation but someone made the point of the great salary at a young age. They start out pretty high and the increase is not as rapid or as large as that of a dentist.
 
my friend will graduate this spring as a pharm and he just signed a 3 year deal worth 1 million dollars
 
My girlfriend is a pharmacist and that is NOT the norm. Walgreens normally set the standard for salaries. She has offers around 105,000 but nothing like what was stated. I suggest you take what your friend said with a grain of salt. 3 year million dollar deal??? Must be a drug dealer.....
 
he is already planning the move, when i say friend i mean best friend kid i grew up with known for 22 years like a brother....it may not be the norm but he found the deal and took it
 
he is already planning the move, when i say friend i mean best friend kid i grew up with known for 22 years like a brother....it may not be the norm but he found the deal and took it

That would calculate to be around 333,000/yr... That just does not sound right to me. I am not a pessimist, but I am a realist.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
i like pharmacists
 
stupid pharmacists. what a boring job. you interact with old people all day and maintain the free blood pressure machine. or you can be on a news clip using one of the pill spatula butter knife thingies separating pills on the counter. sounds like an exciting career. plus all the pharmacies i've been to smell funny.

One thing that appeals to my son about pharmacy is the possiblities of the profession. It is growing. Pharmacists can work in industry for pharmacutical companies doing research, development or sales and can also teach physicians about products. As one pharmacist told me, "Retail is not the end all in pharmacy." They can work in retail at a pharmacy, or they can work with patients in a clinical setting in hospitals. Many pharmacies have patient consulting rooms too. This looks to be a growing trend, and PharmD students are taught clincial pharmacy in their programs. He feels he wouldn't have the pressure of running a business to make a nice living, but it would be available to him should he want it. He likes the fact that it was a six year program, with the summers off. Pharmacists can further their education after the PharmD, if they wish. He knew we would only be covering four years, so cost was a consideration. My son is a busy boy, going to the gym, playing drums and guitar, a part-time job at a pharmacy, and a lot of friends. He has a life, which for my husband and I almost stopped when we were in dental school and in the years shortly after. Pharmacy, from his perspective, met his professional and personal needs. I think it is important to look at things from your perspective, "What would make you happy?" Maybe he will make less money than a dentist, but maybe not, it's not all about the money. Best wishes.
 
My girlfriend is a pharmacist and that is NOT the norm. Walgreens normally set the standard for salaries. She has offers around 105,000 but nothing like what was stated. I suggest you take what your friend said with a grain of salt. 3 year million dollar deal??? Must be a drug dealer.....

My son, just now on break, told my husband that yes, indeed, if a pharmacist volunteers to go to Alaska, they can get $300,000/yr. I don't know how true this is, but that is the scuttlebutt. Best wishes.
 
Pharmacists:
Generally employees
Government intervention coming
Larger chains taking over -- CVS, Wal-Mart, Target
Nice earnings out of school, but limited growth potential
:confused:

Dentists:
Generally business owners -- you create jobs for others
Build something that creates worth over time
Nearly unlimited potential for earnings growth
Little if any government intervention
New smiles change lives
:)

You are in a great position -- do what you love to do and everything will take care of itself
 
Pharmacists:
Generally employees
Government intervention coming
Larger chains taking over -- CVS, Wal-Mart, Target
Nice earnings out of school, but limited growth potential
:confused:

Pharmacist salaries are one of the fastest growing salaries in the nation. Their profession has an average 6 percent increase in salary every year. Considering that thier salary is growing twice the rate of inflation, there is alot of room for growth.
 
Pharmacists:
Generally employees

This can have it's plusses and minuses.

But consider this, when you graduate pharmacy school you get licenses in several states. It is not as cumbersome as dentistry where there may be practical portions to the exam.

You work for a Walmart or CVS. You do not own your own business. But, you decide you like to travel, or spend part of the year in a different state. It may very possible to stay with the same company and work in different states during different times of the year. Or, should you just move from one state or the other, to stay with the same company with very little upheaval.

Pharmacy in this respect, seems a lot more portable and flexible. Pharmacists are in demand and meeting needs like these may prove more fruitful than with dentistry.

This is a plus.

Owning a business can have a lot more potential, but also drawbacks. Once again, thinking about expectations, professionally and personally, and doing what makes you happy is a recipe for success.:thumbup:
 
i worked as a pharm tech for 4 years before i entered dental school. i can say that i learned alot from all of the pharmacist that i have worked for. they were great mentors. i also worked as a dental assistant in order to have a good resume when i applied for dental school. From my understanding, you break 6 figures when you become a pharmacy manager (in retail). Most pharmacist come out and work as a staff pharmacist which start anywhere from 80-90k/yr.

From my experience:
Pharmacist:
Pros- school is shorter, less loans, garunteed salary, potential to climb corporate ladders, benefits, alot of patient interaction

cons(to me)- it feels more like a job than a career, very redundant, have to work nights on a set schedule as long as they are working in retail, almost impossible to open up your own pharmacy (not enough man power to compete with CVS and Walgreens), customers bitch and curse at you alot more often, nurses think that they are better than you, when i worked at walgreens the pharmacists were not allowed to sit down all day long and did not get a break on a 9 hour shift on the weekends.

I grew sick of this job within these four years. I feel bad sometimes that i have to pretty much dump all of my responsibilities into my pharmacists' lap because the situation was out of my hands. I think its great if you have good competent techs working for you, but working in a store with new or lazy techs can be very stressful. Of course dentistry has its downsides also, but it seems like in comparison to the all of the pharmacists and dentists that i have worked for and have met, dentists are usually happier with their choice in career and the older pharmacists start hating their jobs and urge me to do dentistry. I think the best way to choose between the fields is to experience them both first hand. BTW there are anomalies in pay for all professions... think about the dentists that we all know about, have any of them ever brag about other dentists pulling in $300k/yr? I'm usually impressed by those who pull in the $1.2 mil/yr.
 
i worked as a pharm tech for 4 years before i entered dental school. i can say that i learned alot from all of the pharmacist that i have worked for. they were great mentors. i also worked as a dental assistant in order to have a good resume when i applied for dental school. From my understanding, you break 6 figures when you become a pharmacy manager (in retail). Most pharmacist come out and work as a staff pharmacist which start anywhere from 80-90k/yr.

From my experience:
Pharmacist:
Pros- school is shorter, less loans, garunteed salary, potential to climb corporate ladders, benefits, alot of patient interaction

cons(to me)- it feels more like a job than a career, very redundant, have to work nights on a set schedule as long as they are working in retail, almost impossible to open up your own pharmacy (not enough man power to compete with CVS and Walgreens), customers bitch and curse at you alot more often, nurses think that they are better than you, when i worked at walgreens the pharmacists were not allowed to sit down all day long and did not get a break on a 9 hour shift on the weekends.

I grew sick of this job within these four years. I feel bad sometimes that i have to pretty much dump all of my responsibilities into my pharmacists' lap because the situation was out of my hands. I think its great if you have good competent techs working for you, but working in a store with new or lazy techs can be very stressful. Of course dentistry has its downsides also, but it seems like in comparison to the all of the pharmacists and dentists that i have worked for and have met, dentists are usually happier with their choice in career and the older pharmacists start hating their jobs and urge me to do dentistry. I think the best way to choose between the fields is to experience them both first hand. BTW there are anomalies in pay for all professions... think about the dentists that we all know about, have any of them ever brag about other dentists pulling in $300k/yr? I'm usually impressed by those who pull in the $1.2 mil/yr.


The grass always seems greener on the other side. I really think it comes down to homework. You have looked and had experience on both sides of the fence and you have choosen what feels best for you. That is as much as you or anyone can do. When you make a decision first hand like this, I think it's a very comfortable one. I have quite a few patients who are pharmacists. One went to Columbia, when Columbia had a pharmacy school! He's in his 70's. He enjoys it even today and highly recommends it. He is one of my more animated, appreciative and enjoyable patients. He owned his own business, but hated the business side of it and now does retail. I also know several pharmacists whose wives stay home and are supporting good size families on their incomes comfortably. I think it is much more the norm now for graduating PharmD's to start at over $100,000 + a bonus, benefits and some companies offer repayment for a small amount of school loans too. The young one's that are graduating pharmacy school today are commanding and demanding this kind of salary.

Once again, for the one's that decide on this profession as a HS senior and can get that degree in 6 years, this profession does seem a little bit of a golden goose. Less time, a lot less loans and a profession that pays well. Very much the same demographics as dentistry. Only approximately 78 schools in the US and more than half of the maticulated students are females. Less than 1/3 of US pharmacy schools offer an 0-6 PharmD program. A lot of opportunity. It may not be the last degree for many of them, but it's a very good start.

I have brother who's an ER physican, one sister is a nurse and another sister who's a dental assistant. I don't think it is uncommon for many dental assistants/front desk and nurses to think they know more than their bosses.;) That doesn't make it true, but it's easy to cast judgement when they are not walking in the other's shoes. Having a good dental assistant, like a good pharmacy tech, can make your life a lot easier, and the reverse holds true as well.

The pharmacists I have contact with, my patients and friends, seem very satisifed with their career choices. But with every profession, there are some who are satisfied and some who are not. There are ups and downs to every profession.

As I said the potential for income is more likely greater with dentistry, but it means wearing two hats. That is not very appealing to my son, at least for the moment. Things may change. Using his degree in the pharmacy industry, he regards as a possible, eventual prospect. It may be possible to make a higher income in this way. He is very into working out, and the possibility of developing nutrition related items appeals to his personal side. I don't know, he may end up doing retail, but the kid has dreams. A very good thing.

With most of the threads I read on SDN, many are worried about making a decision that they will not be faced with for sometimes years. I think it's great to have direction and to do well, but be open to the possibility that you can and, more importantly, are allowed to have a change of heart. Anything less than that, you are being to too hard on yourself. Everyone needs to be their own best friend, first and foremost. Best wishes in D-school and in practice. Sincerely, Lesley
 
Hello
I am a pre dental guy. Question is:

My cousin is a pharmacist (just graduated this year-only 23 years) and works at Walmart and makes a salary of $125,000 with an additional signing bonus of $20k=$145k.
She gets full benefits, has no insurance to pay, and works 40hrs week. How do these places pay these pharmacist soo much? What do they do??, tech does the work.
Dentists at least produces and associate get 1/3.


JUST curious
if he makes 145k then he is the only pharmacist i have ever heard of that makes that much, especially right out of college.
 
my friend will graduate this spring as a pharm and he just signed a 3 year deal worth 1 million dollars

Yeh right. Believe none of what u hear and half of what you see. The only "pharmacist" making that kind of dough is not working for a legitimate pharmaceutical industry.

*According to a 2005 survey by Drug Topics magazine, the median annual earning of pharmacists (including overtime and bonuses) was $89,723 in 2004, as compared to $82,607 in 2002, $78,624 in 2000, and $64,980 in 1999.
*"[Pharmacists] working in discount/mass-merchandising stores racked up the highest salaries ($93,442) last year.

[SOURCE] http://www.aacp.org/site/tertiary.asp?TRACKID=&VID=2&CID=686&DID=5957
 
The grass always seems greener on the other side. I really think it comes down to homework. You have looked and had experience on both sides of the fence and you have choosen what feels best for you. That is as much as you or anyone can do. When you make a decision first hand like this, I think it's a very comfortable one. I have quite a few patients who are pharmacists. One went to Columbia, when Columbia had a pharmacy school! He's in his 70's. He enjoys it even today and highly recommends it. He is one of my more animated, appreciative and enjoyable patients. He owned his own business, but hated the business side of it and now does retail. I also know several pharmacists whose wives stay home and are supporting good size families on their incomes comfortably. I think it is much more the norm now for graduating PharmD's to start at over $100,000 + a bonus, benefits and some companies offer repayment for a small amount of school loans too. The young one's that are graduating pharmacy school today are commanding and demanding this kind of salary.

Once again, for the one's that decide on this profession as a HS senior and can get that degree in 6 years, this profession does seem a little bit of a golden goose. Less time, a lot less loans and a profession that pays well. Very much the same demographics as dentistry. Only approximately 78 schools in the US and more than half of the maticulated students are females. Less than 1/3 of US pharmacy schools offer an 0-6 PharmD program. A lot of opportunity. It may not be the last degree for many of them, but it's a very good start.

I have brother who's an ER physican, one sister is a nurse and another sister who's a dental assistant. I don't think it is uncommon for many dental assistants/front desk and nurses to think they know more than their bosses.;) That doesn't make it true, but it's easy to cast judgement when they are not walking in the other's shoes. Having a good dental assistant, like a good pharmacy tech, can make your life a lot easier, and the reverse holds true as well.

The pharmacists I have contact with, my patients and friends, seem very satisifed with their career choices. But with every profession, there are some who are satisfied and some who are not. There are ups and downs to every profession.

As I said the potential for income is more likely greater with dentistry, but it means wearing two hats. That is not very appealing to my son, at least for the moment. Things may change. Using his degree in the pharmacy industry, he regards as a possible, eventual prospect. It may be possible to make a higher income in this way. He is very into working out, and the possibility of developing nutrition related items appeals to his personal side. I don't know, he may end up doing retail, but the kid has dreams. A very good thing.

With most of the threads I read on SDN, many are worried about making a decision that they will not be faced with for sometimes years. I think it's great to have direction and to do well, but be open to the possibility that you can and, more importantly, are allowed to have a change of heart. Anything less than that, you are being to too hard on yourself. Everyone needs to be their own best friend, first and foremost. Best wishes in D-school and in practice. Sincerely, Lesley

Lesley,
I’m sorry to dampen your enthusiasm about pharmacy, but I don’t think you have done the homework as thoroughly as you should. Perhaps, you should consider the following points:
1. The salary of pharmacists is determined by supply and demand, and precisely because the low supply of pharmacists right now (pharmacy schools recently going from a 5 year program to 6 year has a lot do with the situation), the salary is high. However, pharmacy schools are expanding very aggressively and in about 6 years (exactly the time your son would graduate) the supply will catch up the demand and the salary will most likely stagnate. It is relatively easy to expand existing pharmacy schools or open new pharmacy schools when compared to dental schools.
2. “One thing that appeals to my son about pharmacy is the possibilities of the profession. It is growing. Pharmacists can work in industry for pharmaceutical companies doing research, development or sales and can also teach physicians about products.” This is really not true. Just like not all dentists can become oral surgeons or orthodontists, the positions in a true clinical setting and pharmaceutical industry are limited and very competitive. A great majority of pharmacists work in retail places such as Wal-Mart where you make a good income but have to deal with things that come with any retail business. Lesley, when was the last time one of your patients yell at you or threw things at you because they are not satisfied your work? Ask any retail pharmacists, they have deal with things like this often.
3. “Many pharmacies have patient consulting rooms too. This looks to be a growing trend, and PharmD students are taught clinical pharmacy in their programs.” In most retail places you do not have time for patient consulting. The corporate masters want you to fill Rx as fast as possible. All they care about is the money the pharmacist generates and do not care about patients, thus creating an ethical dilemma for many pharmacists. Most pharmacists do not get to use what they are learned in school, this is one of the most negative aspects of pharmacy.
4. In a way, you son is making a greater commitment to pharmacy than your commitment to dentistry (his is 6 years while your was 4 years). Your son may think that he can deal with the negative aspects of pharmacy since he is still a young man, but as you know, things like this become less tolerable as you get older. You should make him aware that. There is nothing wrong with pharmacy, but one must know what one is getting into.
.
 
Lesley,
I'm sorry to dampen your enthusiasm about pharmacy, but I don't think you have done the homework as thoroughly as you should. Perhaps, you should consider the following points:
1. The salary of pharmacists is determined by supply and demand, and precisely because the low supply of pharmacists right now (pharmacy schools recently going from a 5 year program to 6 year has a lot do with the situation), the salary is high. However, pharmacy schools are expanding very aggressively and in about 6 years (exactly the time your son would graduate) the supply will catch up the demand and the salary will most likely stagnate. It is relatively easy to expand existing pharmacy schools or open new pharmacy schools when compared to dental schools.
2. "One thing that appeals to my son about pharmacy is the possibilities of the profession. It is growing. Pharmacists can work in industry for pharmaceutical companies doing research, development or sales and can also teach physicians about products." This is really not true. Just like not all dentists can become oral surgeons or orthodontists, the positions in a true clinical setting and pharmaceutical industry are limited and very competitive. A great majority of pharmacists work in retail places such as Wal-Mart where you make a good income but have to deal with things that come with any retail business. Lesley, when was the last time one of your patients yell at you or threw things at you because they are not satisfied your work? Ask any retail pharmacists, they have deal with things like this often.
3. "Many pharmacies have patient consulting rooms too. This looks to be a growing trend, and PharmD students are taught clinical pharmacy in their programs." In most retail places you do not have time for patient consulting. The corporate masters want you to fill Rx as fast as possible. All they care about is the money the pharmacist generates and do not care about patients, thus creating an ethical dilemma for many pharmacists. Most pharmacists do not get to use what they are learned in school, this is one of the most negative aspects of pharmacy.
4. In a way, you son is making a greater commitment to pharmacy than your commitment to dentistry (his is 6 years while your was 4 years). Your son may think that he can deal with the negative aspects of pharmacy since he is still a young man, but as you know, things like this become less tolerable as you get older. You should make him aware that. There is nothing wrong with pharmacy, but one must know what one is getting into.
.


He, my husband and I are very aware of the ups and downs of pharmacy.

Regardless, he is very happy and enthusiastic about his decision. I very much doubt salary in pharmacy will go down, but, posssibly, it may not go up as quickly. This, I think, may be true for many professions. As far as salary, the most recent Forbes magazine salary survey noted the "average" salary between a pharmacist and dentist is only a $5,000 spread. You can look to previous posts for this survey.

Obviously, pharmacy is not for you, but how much of what you learn in dental school are you going to apply to dentistry? How many patients are going to love you, especially whey you are collecting money from them? I know dentists so stressed they have thrown instruments at their assistants, yell at their front desk and assistants. They don't seem so happy. There are people who are happy and those that are not, and this will translate into a happy or not so happy professional.

A recent survey puts dentists behind pharmacists in who they trust. I know many patients who are nice to the dentists and go out and give the front desk heck complaining about the prices, etc. It's no fun as a business owner putting patients in collection. As far as physically doing dentistry or pharmacy, both things are hard on the body. As I said in a recent post, almost every job gets physically harder as you get older.

Pharmacy schools are expanding, and they need to with 24 hours pharmacies, an aging population, an increasing role in the medical profession and more than 50 percent of matriculated students female, many times in excess of 60 percent. Many women pharmacy students like female dental students on this board do not want to work full time or even half time after graduation. As far as job security, some people can not live without their medications. Obtaining medications will be a number one priority for many. As an 0-6, PharmD candidate students that can get their degree in 6 years, can walk away with very little debt, even if their parents are paying for only 4 years, possibly less than $50,000, a career that can pay $100,000+ and many possiblities ahead, including going back to school for whatever. He plans on having his debt paid within 3 years of graduation, maybe sooner. Yes, corporations want those rx's filled asap, but if a dentist participates with HMO's and PPO's which may be hard to avoid especially for many in saturated areas or with high overheads, they will be working for insurance companies. Insurance companies like pharmacy corporations don't care about you either.

My son has worked in our dental office, volunteered at a pediatric hospital, worked in pharmacy and has had other retail jobs over the years. He knows what he likes and doesn't. Dentistry is not for him. It's not for everybody, regardless of how good you perceive the money or career. I think it's important that you should like or be enthusiastic about what you do or at least start out that way! Sounds like your sold on dentistry, he is not. There is opportunity in both professions. This isn't a good or bad decision, just a decision that is right for the individual and will vary depending on the individual. He has done his homework, more than most; hopefully, you have too. Even after reading the negatives in your post, because he has done his homework and shared his opinions with us, I feel very optimistic and do not feel defensive at all, neither does he. He has made a very good decision for him, for now.

My husband's urologist says that after doing anything for 25 years, he just recently met that landmark, it's just a job. I don't necessarily agree, but that's just one physician's opinion. Good luck and have a very Happy Holiday and a bright New Year!:)


Just some corrections to your remarks.

1) Dentistry is an 8 year obligation for most students in the U.S., four years of college and four years of dental school. Occasionally, a student will have only 3 years of college when entering dental school, but this is the rarity, and is becoming less common.

2) Pharmacy schools are not inexpensive to expand. Most private universities do not have additional dollars to expand their programs and for state schools the necessary additions and improvements to their facilities must be approved in state referendums.
 
Lesley,

It seems like you and your son have done the home work very well.

Just some corrections to your remarks.

1) "Dentistry is an 8 year obligation for most students in the U.S., four years of college and four years of dental school." Of course, I am aware that dental school is 8 years in total, however, since it's 4 years of college (which you can major whatever you like such as business and at the end you can choose not to go to dental school, and 4 years of dental school there after, it seems to me it's a shorter commitment than a 6 year pharmacy program which your son is in. What would he do if he decides he does not like pharmacy after spending 4 years? Would he have a B.S. degree that he can use to get a job? Those in pre-dental school track would.

2) "Pharmacy schools are not inexpensive to expand. Most private universities do not have additional dollars to expand their programs and for state schools the necessary additions and improvements to their facilities must be approved in state referendums"
You are right that it is not inexpensive, but compared to dental school it surely is. Just look at the number of new pharmacy schools that have opened recently? It seems like almost all Osteopathic medical schools will have pharmacy programs in the very near future. They are adding the pharmacy program to their schools, since it's a money maker for them. It does not take a lot of money for a medical school to add a pharmacy program to their school. What equipment do pharmacists use to practice their profession?

3) I am neither a dental student nor a practicing dentist. And I am also not a pharmacist. I do have 3 pharmacists and 1 dentist in my immediate family. My impression is that pharmacy provides a good income and less stressful life style, but it also has many problems that make the profession less rewarding and less stable in the future, which pharmacy schools would not tell you and you might not be aware.

Good luck.

Thanks.

The six year program is a combined two year pre-professional and four year professional degree, it cuts out two years of college. Less time, less financial commitment. If you don't like pharmacy, you are no worse off than having any college degree, except you can earn a decent income. Most students even with business degrees go on after their BA. I would disagree that pre-dental students are in good position after obtaining their BA or BS to make a good living. I had a BS in science, more heavily weighted to biology, and I can tell you after I graduated, I felt like I was prepared enough to work at a department store. Continuing on to a further degree whether it be a MS or professional degree would have been required in my major to have a career path. That may not be necessarily so, but this was my perception.

As you say pharmacy may provide a good income and a less stressful lifestyle, but there may be problems with the profession. I can say with certainty there are problems with many professions, none of which any school will tell you. It's not good for their business.

No one can know for sure the stability of any profession, there are no guarantees with anything in life. So, it's up to an individual to think about what they wouldn't mind doing with the rest of their life, the implications and possiblities. But, as far as I know, no one can really see into the future.

Pharmacy may be less expensive than dentistry when it comes to producing professionals. However, medicine may even be less costly. A PharmD student has to spend three of the four professional years in the pharmacy building, many of their courses require lab work. Labs are expensive propositions to build. With medicine, the medical students only spend two years at their medical school and two years doing rotations in hospitals and physician's offices. It wouldn't be too hard to squeeze a few more medical students in lecture halls. There is a big push to increase the number of medical doctors graduating over the next decade too. The cost of education is one of the reasons we are producing so many attorneys. Their classes are lecture based. How hard is it to squeeze a few more in a lecture room and make a considerable sum in tuition from each student? Many schools view law schools as definite money makers. Without a doubt, dentists are the most expensive professional to produce, and dentistry is one the most expensive professions to run, as far as I am concerned, but even this could be up for debate.

Dentistry has worked out for my husband and I, but working on teeth for a lifetime or even a short time does not interest our sons and, therefore, would not be a good choice, regardless of income, for them.

Wishing you and your family a very Happy Holiday season! Best wishes, Lesley
 
they have this in dental and medical school called junior honors where you get accepted after high school, dont have to take DAT or MCAT, and is 2 years undergrad and 4 years prof school. we had 20 of them in my dental school class and i knew a ton in med school who were doing this route and graduating at 24!;)

Thanks.

The six year program is a combined two year pre-professional and four year professional degree, it cuts out two years of college. Less time, less financial commitment. If you don't like pharmacy, you are no worse off than having any college degree, except you can earn a decent income. Most students even with business degrees go on after their BA. I would disagree that pre-dental students are in good position after obtaining their BA or BS to make a good living. I had a BS in science, more heavily weighted to biology, and I can tell you after I graduated, I felt like I was prepared enough to work at a department store. Continuing on to a further degree whether it be a MS or professional degree would have been required in my major to have a career path. That may not be necessarily so, but this was my perception.

As you say pharmacy may provide a good income and a less stressful lifestyle, but there may be problems with the profession. I can say with certainty there are problems with many professions, none of which any school will tell you. It's not good for their business.

No one can know for sure the stability of any profession, there are no guarantees with anything in life. So, it's up to an individual to think about what they wouldn't mind doing with the rest of their life, the implications and possiblities. But, as far as I know, no one can really see into the future.

Pharmacy may be less expensive than dentistry when it comes to producing professionals. However, medicine may even be less costly. A PharmD student has to spend three of the four professional years in the pharmacy building, many of their courses require lab work. Labs are expensive propositions to build. With medicine, the medical students only spend two years at their medical school and two years doing rotations in hospitals and physician's offices. It wouldn't be too hard to squeeze a few more medical students in lecture halls. There is a big push to increase the number of medical doctors graduating over the next decade too. The cost of education is one of the reasons we are producing so many attorneys. Their classes are lecture based. How hard is it to squeeze a few more in a lecture room and make a considerable sum in tuition from each student? Many schools view law schools as definite money makers. Without a doubt, dentists are the most expensive professional to produce, and dentistry is one the most expensive professions to run, as far as I am concerned, but even this could be up for debate.

Dentistry has worked out for my husband and I, but working on teeth for a lifetime or even a short time does not interest my sons and, therefore, would not be a good choice, regardless of income, for them.

Wishing you and your family a very Happy Holiday season! Best wishes, Lesley
 
they have this in dental and medical school called junior honors where you get accepted after high school, dont have to take DAT or MCAT, and is 2 years undergrad and 4 years prof school. we had 20 of them in my dental school class and i knew a ton in med school who were doing this route and graduating at 24!;)

That is a very good way to go.

I have spoken with dentists who are now in their 80's and late 70's that tell me that when they went to dental school it only took them 5 years total, college courses and dental school.

My patient, who is a Columbia grad and pharmacist, was disappointed that he missed going to Columbia when it took only three years total, college courses and pharmacy school, to graduate. His year was the first year the program took four years. Pharmacy programs later switched to five years and more recently six years! It's no wonder the commitment and cost keeps increasing.;) Best wishes and Happy Holidays!
 
My 2 cents. That quoted pharmacist salary is the norm for a new grad in larger cities (i.e. San Francisco, Los Angeles, New York, etc).

$125k/yr is the salary. $20k is the sign on bonus, that's it. It will get taxed half and he probably has to stay for a couple of years. So when you say his "salary is $145k/yr", it isn't true.

The national avg pharmacist salary should be $105k-110k/yr and that's true even for the smaller cities. And believe it or not, your run of the mill discount stores like Walmart and Target pay just as much as retail chains like Walgreens and CVS, which also pay just as much as grocery store chains like Safeway and Albertsons.

Bottom line: a pharmacist's salary is pretty much set in all companies in retail and they are projected to increase 5% per year for the next 5-10 yrs as demand continues to rise (baby boomers and more stores opening).

And more "he said, she said" stories, a Target in Santa Clara, CA, had an ad recently that was hiring a pharmacist paying $70.xx/hr with full benefits. (~$150k/yr). The demand in some areas is crazy and that's why everyone and their mama's (literally MAMA's! :D ) are doing pharmacy.
 
My 2 cents. That quoted pharmacist salary is the norm for a new grad in larger cities (i.e. San Francisco, Los Angeles, New York, etc).

$125k/yr is the salary. $20k is the sign on bonus, that's it. It will get taxed half and he probably has to stay for a couple of years. So when you say his "salary is $145k/yr", it isn't true.

The national avg pharmacist salary should be $105k-110k/yr and that's true even for the smaller cities. And believe it or not, your run of the mill discount stores like Walmart and Target pay just as much as retail chains like Walgreens and CVS, which also pay just as much as grocery store chains like Safeway and Albertsons.

Bottom line: a pharmacist's salary is pretty much set in all companies in retail and they are projected to increase 5% per year for the next 5-10 yrs as demand continues to rise (baby boomers and more stores opening).

And more "he said, she said" stories, a Target in Santa Clara, CA, had an ad recently that was hiring a pharmacist paying $70.xx/hr with full benefits. (~$150k/yr). The demand in some areas is crazy and that's why everyone and their mama's (literally MAMA's! :D ) are doing pharmacy.


Your quotes sound about right, $125,000 and $105-110,000, on average, plus signing bonuses. Many offer $5,000/yr student loan repayment too.

And your right, after taxes, income and bonuses decrease in value, sometimes as much as half, for everyone including pharmacists and dentists.

I told my son to look into this Alaska thing! Even if it's only for a year!:laugh:

I think demand and salary in pharmacy will remain strong for a long time to come. Best wishes and Happy Holidays.
 
As far as salary, the most recent Forbes magazine salary survey noted the "average" salary between a pharmacist and dentist is only a $5,000 spread. You can look to previous posts for this survey.

Notice she didnt leave a SOURCE. Avg dentist salary is 177k, and trust me, avg. pharmacists are not making anywhere near that. I know 4 pharmacy students, you wont make much over 100k...
 
Notice she didnt leave a SOURCE. Avg dentist salary is 177k, and trust me, avg. pharmacists are not making anywhere near that. I know 4 pharmacy students, you wont make much over 100k...

Hey GiveMeDMD, The name is Lesley, not she.

Anyway, the majority of these types of surveys I find are from SDN posts. I don't think any survey has a direct bearing on mine or anybody's life for that matter. I'm without a doubt much more interested in dental students and their debt issue, so those are the articles I archive.

But from a recent salary.com information that I bookmarked from an SDN post and recently checked, as of December 2006, the median salary, not average, salary of dentists is $120,864.

The breakdown:

25th percentile $102,316
Median $120,864
75th percentile $151,516

I assume this survey is for general dentists, as it was not specific and just listed "dentists."

I doubt pharmacist salary spreads will have the range that dentists do. As I have not registered for salary wizard's salary.com survey and only have privy to it because of a generous SDN poster, I can not use the calculator to access the information for a pharmacist. But in agreement with Eddie269's post above, pharmacists full time salaries are pretty consistant across the US. If you wish, you can register with salary.com, access this information and share it with us. I would figure that median salary will be close to $90,000+ and should increase over the years as recent PharmD's come into the market with a greater length and scope of training than the majority of previously trained pharmacists presently in the job market.

You will make more than enough money to live comfortably and pay off your loan. What difference does it make or why bother being so sensitive as to how much pharmacists or any other professional earns? You are going into dentistry not just because of the money, right?

You may agree with salary.com's survey or not, all these surveys are numbers that reflect a population at large, and who knows how large a slice of the population they use or their methodology.

Surveys are not about an individual's potential. That lies within the individual. Reaching your potential will determine salary, not a survey. I have said many times, there is a lot of opportunity and, therefore, potential with dentistry.

I'm going to bowse the web and my even my archive to see if I can locate the Forbe's article where I saw both pharmacists and dentists salaries listed together. I can't find it for now, but both my husband and I read it. So, it is out there, somewhere!;) Happy New Years! Good luck in school.
 
Notice she didnt leave a SOURCE. Avg dentist salary is 177k, and trust me, avg. pharmacists are not making anywhere near that. I know 4 pharmacy students, you wont make much over 100k...


I did find a U.S. Department of Labor, Bureau of Labor Statistics, National Compensation Survey from July of 2004 I managed to save that states hourly compensation. Granted this is 2 1/2 years old. As I said in the above post, I don't follow this too much.

Mean Hourly Earnings:
Pharmacists $41.27/hr
Dentists $42.91/hr

These are more than likely, both, salaried compensations. Remember as a dentist you can own your own business, and with that there is more potential to, potentially, make a lot more money. This avenue involves borrowing more money to purchase capital and to rent or buy property and, of course, you will be running a business. You will be fine. I am through discusssing this issue on this thread. You now have some legitimate "SOURCES." There are many more out there and they will all vary. Good Luck. Health and Happiness in the New Year to all!
 
I felt I should take the time to retrive the data from the most recent U.S Department of Labor, Bureau of Labor Statistics National Compensation Survey. This infomation is from the BLS's NCS, July 2006 report compiled under Elaine Chao. You may find it more relevant.

Mean Hourly Earnings:
Pharmacists $45.25/hr
Dentists $46.30/hr

Interpret these figures as you like. This is only a survey. Now, I'm done. Thank goodness.
 
But from a recent salary.com information that I bookmarked from an SDN post and recently checked, as of December 2006, the median salary, not average, salary of dentists is $120,864.

The breakdown:

25th percentile $102,316
Median $120,864
75th percentile $151,516

The most extensive/accurate source is the ADA and the APhA. The ADA lists general dentists avg salary at 177K for 2005, and the APhA lists the avg. pharmacists salary at barely over 100K. I say this because that 5,000k "spread" salary gap between dentists and pharmacists is inaccurate information and needed to be cleared up.

Sources:
http://www.aacp.org
http://www.ada.org
 
I felt I should take the time to retrive the data from the most recent U.S Department of Labor, Bureau of Labor Statistics National Compensation Survey. This infomation is from the BLS's NCS, July 2006 report compiled under Elaine Chao. You may find it more relevant.

Mean Hourly Earnings:
Pharmacists $45.25/hr
Dentists $46.30/hr

Interpret these figures as you like. This is only a survey. Now, I'm done. Thank goodness.

Give it up Lesley, as we've discussed before, pre-dents truly believe they will be making $300k/yr minimum the day they are handed their degree. The irony of these posts is pre-dents arguing with a real practicing dentist! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
 
Give it up Lesley, as we've discussed before, pre-dents truly believe they will be making $300k/yr minimum the day they are handed their degree. The irony of these posts is pre-dents arguing with a real practicing dentist! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Let me just say, I don't believe that! I am aware that most dentists have a rough start within that first 5 to 10 yrs. However, base on the dentists i worked with and many close friends of mine who are dentists...they earn much more than your regular pharmacists. I don't think all of the dentists i ran into are the lucky ones.
In this case, it's not predents vs. real dentists...it's about the sources that you're looking at..:thumbdown:
 
Let me just say, I don't believe that! I am aware that most dentists have a rough start within that first 5 to 10 yrs. However, base on the dentists i worked with and many close friends of mine who are dentists...they earn much more than your regular pharmacists. I don't think all of the dentists i ran into are the lucky ones.
In this case, it's not predents vs. real dentists...it's about the sources that you're looking at..:thumbdown:




FamilyMD has dentists in his family too.:thumbup: Besides, we're not discussing my income or his relatives, just surveys. What do you really know about the dentists you know? How much they make, how much in student loans they carry, their personal debt, how much business debt they have, their overhead? What do you really know about the money that comes in and the money that goes out every month. I'm not going to answer the first question, but I can tell you we have 0 in student loans, 0 in personal debt, 0 in business debt, low overhead and a very nice schedule. I am very happy, that is all I need to know. Many people are very comfortable with very high debt levels, are you? A lot of people, professionals included, are like that commercial, "I'm in debt up to my eyeballs." A good friend of mine is a bankuptcy attorney. According to her, many have tapped out all the equity in their homes as well. You can try to discredit me because you don't like a survey, and you can choose to believe the surveys or commercials you like. That's your prerogative. As I said, I will not discuss income surveys, it's not my thing, nor do I think they are relative to any individual. There is a really good, recent article, you may be be able to find on Yahoo, "The Color of Envy." The article concludes that what people envy is often times an illusion. Everyone in dentistry has the ability to make a good income and have a happy life. It affords you the tools and to do so. Worrying about surveys, is just not productive, nor has any real value to an individual. As my husband has said repeatedly, for our son, pharmacy is just a very nice decision. Do not interpret that to mean dentistry isn't a good profession. Every professsion has it's ups and downs. If it weren't for dentistry, we wouldn't be in the very nice position that we are today. We live a simple life, by choice, and it's a very lucky choice to have. Good luck and Best wishes.
 
The most extensive/accurate source is the ADA and the APhA. The ADA lists general dentists avg salary at 177K for 2005, and the APhA lists the avg. pharmacists salary at barely over 100K. I say this because that 5,000k "spread" salary gap between dentists and pharmacists is inaccurate information and needed to be cleared up.

Sources:
http://www.aacp.org
http://www.ada.org


Since you consider the ADA website a reliable and accurate source, how relevant is this information to you, also from the ADA website?

In 2005, the ADA states on their website, that the average debt of a dental school graduate was $141,521.

Will this come any where close to the debt you will owe at graduation?

While the survey is accurate, for many dental students these ADA figures will mean NADA!

Surveys do not apply to individuals, only groups. The wider the spread between 25% and 75% percentiles, the less value they have to an individual.
With dentistry there is quite a big spread, as evidenced by the salary.com survey.

If the ADA's survey only includes established member's incomes, it has even less relevance to a new dentist.

Survey's imply nothing about an individual's income potential or debt. As far as I am concerned, surveys don't have much relevance to me as an individual or anyone.

Dentistry is an enjoyable profession with a good income and great lifestyle possiblities. Best wishes and good luck in the New Year.
 
I am a pharmacist. Been working only a year (So I have a fresh idea of the salary offers myself and my classmates recieved on graduation). At the retail level (hospital or industry pharmacy may have a different pay scale), new staff pharmacists make on average $100,000/yr give or take $10,000. This does not include sign-on bonuses...which you may or may not receive. Of course there are extremes that fall outside of this range. Pharmacy managers may make more and if you move up in corparate circles you may make significantly more. Fluctuations in pay are based on what chain you work for & location in the US. You may also make a significant amount more if you are willing to relocate to a rural or "undesirable" location or a location where there is a shortage of pharmacists.

In regards to the originating comment, unless one has worked in a pharmacy...there is no way to understand its demands. I would not presume to comment (good or bad) on any profession unless I had first-hand experience in it. (My husband is a dental student soon to graduate...therefore surfing the dental forum.) Pharmacists are a liason between insurance companies, patients, and presribers. We are liable to some extent for any unwanted outcome(s) the patient may have to their medications (ie. screening for allergies, interactions, duplications in therapy, warning about side-effects.) At the retail level, we also have to deal with any typical retail issues...pricing, customers, etc..!! Depending on where your store is located, the clientele, how busy it is, and whether or not you have good tech help...a pharmacist can have a very demanding job.

For the typical pharmacist, I do agree that there is only so much salary growth potential. (But even this statment is uncertain....not too long ago, pharmacist where making about half what they do now.) I do believe dentistry has more potential for salary increase over professional lifetime.

Probably alot of this has been mentioned in previous comments, but I just wanted to add in my two cents!! : )
 
Pharm and Dent are equally enjoyable for the right person.

In the end.... the difference is that a pharm will have a salary cap. 75-200K (maybe) and most likely you will work for someone else.

As a dentist... can have a salary range from 75-????K (maybe) There are dentists, (more specialists, more likely, than GPs) that are pulling home 1 million or more.

So what this means is...
Dentist = More risk, more debt, more school, but greater chances to earn more and work for yourself

Parm.D = Less risk, less debt, less school, but less of a chance to earn more and almost ZERO chance to work for yourself

As I said before BOTH ARE GREAT AND WE NEED BOTH, but someone wondering which way to go should ask which is right for me?

-C
 
I like how there's talk of pharmacists actually having a better career/lifestyle than dentists. It allows for dentists to stay living like kings and queens. :laugh:
 
Pharm and Dent are equally enjoyable for the right person.

In the end.... the difference is that a pharm will have a salary cap. 75-200K (maybe) and most likely you will work for someone else.

As a dentist... can have a salary range from 75-????K (maybe) There are dentists, (more specialists, more likely, than GPs) that are pulling home 1 million or more.

So what this means is...
Dentist = More risk, more debt, more school, but greater chances to earn more and work for yourself

Parm.D = Less risk, less debt, less school, but less of a chance to earn more and almost ZERO chance to work for yourself

As I said before BOTH ARE GREAT AND WE NEED BOTH, but someone wondering which way to go should ask which is right for me?

-C

Well said SuperC!
 
First a comment, a lot pharmacists will work weekends and holidays to reach that >100,000 dollar salary cited. Salary though fluctuates depending on several factors but yes it would be fair to say salary is around 100,000.

Dentist salaries are difficult to hold to a specific range, I have seen several successful, and unsuccessful practices so there is a no way to really say how much a practice can generate exactly. Once again no one has a real figure to give you to predict exactly how much you'll make, with a lot of work and effort you can hopefully be successful. One question though I have still is post/pre-tax........are these figures people through around before taxes or after. I think its important to know that earning 100,000 dollars or 75,000 dollars isn't really the true value....keep in mind you dont' get to keep the whole thing! you have taxes, workers, family, insurance........a whole bunch of other things
 
The thing I hate about these salary/income questions is that it's always to compare the professions to see which one has the highest income. This makes it so everyone will then try to become a member of that profession (greedy asses who have no real interest in the profession). This will then make it so that profession becomes super saturated (medical profession) and then everyone will post more salary questions on forums to start the cycle all over again! I do not want it to happen with dentistry, so I try not to correct comments regarding their lives.
 
Top