Question for posters in the 4.0 competition thread

[noncon]

Could the posters in the 4.0 competition thread please mention what kind of colleges you all are in. Because I am very impressed with the number of classes and your workload per semester.

My sister is studying pre-med at an elite but affordable 2-year postbacc program where they are encouraged to take ONLY two classes per semester (8 credits) by their advisor. Apparently they are extremely and incredibly challenging classes and that is about all you can reasonably manage if you study there. Even with those two classes a semester, most students end up with what they term "transcript damage". But many of you in the 4.0 competition thread seem to be taking so many classes - 19 credits or more and these seem to be challenging subjects - so I am very curious about the tier of your schools or the names of your schools. Maybe classes are easier at your school. Maybe my sister's post-bacc program is an anomaly and a bad place to be because many of them still seem to end up with very badly damaged GPA's despite just two classes a semester.

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[MedPR]

Could the posters in the 4.0 competition thread please mention what kind of colleges you all are in. Because I am very impressed with the number of classes and your workload per semester.

My sister is studying pre-med at an elite but affordable 2-year postbacc program where they are encouraged to take ONLY two classes per semester (8 credits) by their advisor. Apparently they are extremely and incredibly challenging classes and that is about all you can reasonably manage if you study there. Even with those two classes a semester, most students end up with what they term "transcript damage". But many of you seem to be taking so many classes, so I am curious about the tier of your schools. Maybe my sister's post-bacc program is an anomaly because many of them still seem to end up with very badly damaged GPA's despite just two classes a semester.

What elite program is this? The only place I've ever been told that 8 credits was a lot was at the community college I took some classes at.

 

[noncon]

What elite program is this? The only place I've ever been told that 8 credits was a lot was at the community college I took some classes at.

Check your private message.
I will be back on later.

 

[Hemorrage]

You have to realize that the only people who post in the 4.0 thread are the ones with 4.0's. They typically are the best students in their class and get neurotic if they get anything less than an A. They also often forget that you don't need a 4.0 do get into medical school. That being said, yes i've been highly skeptical about that thread for a long time in terms of where these courses are taken. There is far more variability in getting a grade than just doing well on the exams.. (I.e curves, bad questions, etc). At my school getting anything above a 3.6 is a solid accomplishment for a semester.

 

[jd989898]

TX A&M University here.

 

[TipToad]

I'm always surprised at the number of hours that students at big universities take. I go to a liberal arts school, and we only take four classes every semester. If I actually count the hours, it's equivalent to 12 hours.

 

[noncon]

You have to realize that the only people who post in the 4.0 thread are the ones with 4.0's. They typically are the best students in their class and get neurotic if they get anything less than an A. They also often forget that you don't need a 4.0 do get into medical school. That being said, yes i've been highly skeptical about that thread for a long time in terms of where these courses are taken. There is far more variability in getting a grade than just doing well on the exams.. (I.e curves, bad questions, etc). At my school getting anything above a 3.6 is a solid accomplishment for a semester.

I got an okay from my sister to mention her school. She is at Harvard Extension. With two classes a semester - 8 credits - she and her friends spend all their time doing homework, especially Physics with one Rueckner teaching them. ALL THEIR TIME doing homework. And they hardly ever get A's, although they do magnificently on the MCAT's. Unfortunately, because of the bad grades at Harvard Extension, the % of people who do get into medical school after Harvard Extension is very low - about the same % as anywhere else (Source: Dr. Fixsen's video talk). My sister and her friends barely have time for volunteering and stuff like that. In contrast, in the 4.0 thread, students seem to be taking 19 credits in very challenging subjects like Biochemistry, Biostatistics and other equally challenging subjects in a single semester. It is a little confusing to me how they manage that in ONE freakin semester.

 

[myronnie]

I guess I'll chime in on this since it seems like you haven't gotten any answers to your question really..
I go to University of South Florida and take 16-18 credits per semester and receive a 3.8-4.0 per semester. However, I believe that the rigor of the courses at this University is nothing like the previous college I have attended (ranked number 1 on Forbes almost every year). The exams were all ESSAY and required not only memorization but conceptualization of the material. English and humanities courses were almost impossible to receive an A in even when putting a huge amount of work into the course. In the weed-out courses, Bio I and II it was insane how much work you had to put in to get an A. You had to know the book front to back and actually know how to use the information.

Fast forward to USF and it's laughable. Pretty much all the exams are multiple choice and can be aced by not even studying up until 2 days before the exam. Extra credit is given out like candy. We get cheat sheets in some classes even! So yes to answer your question, the rigor of schools does vary quite a bit and this may have some effect on how many "difficult" classes someone can take and still receive a high grade.

 

[blueshockey]

I attend University of Missouri- Columbia, and have yet to receive less than an A- in a class. That being said, it isn't necessarily dependent on what college you go to, more like who the teachers are and what their major is. For example, I know one teacher at my school teaching biology that I would have to study a WEEK in advance for, yet I could have taken the same course with another teacher and study for maybe a day or two and be fine.

The most challenging classes I've taken are (in no particular order) cancer biology, biochemistry I, biochemistry II, and that's about it (obviously the biology class I mentioned before). Those classes were HEAVILY based on essay response, so difficult classes at every college, but some people just try to avoid it/the teacher if they can. As for the major, a few of the most intelligent people I know are biological engineers and sometimes they ride the struggle bus, but most biochemistry majors (of which I am) are fine. So it's a crapshoot.

Edit: I take from 14-16 credits per semester, hovering mostly between 4 and 5 classes.

 

[noncon]

First of all, congratulations on your acceptance into medical school! You mentioned that you had to study for a WEEK as though that is a lot of studying. At my sister's Harvard Extension, they do homework every single day ALL day, ALL through the semester. A week's study at Harvard Extension will get them an F. And the % that gets into medical school after Harvard Extension's formal post-bacc program is a relatively low 33% because of transcript damage at Harvard Extension. Something is wrong somewhere. Such things factor in when I choose where to take pre-med classes.

I attend University of Missouri- Columbia, and have yet to receive less than an A- in a class. That being said, it isn't necessarily dependent on what college you go to, more like who the teachers are and what their major is. For example, I know one teacher at my school teaching biology that I would have to study a WEEK in advance for, yet I could have taken the same course with another teacher and study for maybe a day or two and be fine.

The most challenging classes I've taken are (in no particular order) cancer biology, biochemistry I, biochemistry II, and that's about it (obviously the biology class I mentioned before). Those classes were HEAVILY based on essay response, so difficult classes at every college, but some people just try to avoid it/the teacher if they can. As for the major, a few of the most intelligent people I know are biological engineers and sometimes they ride the struggle bus, but most biochemistry majors (of which I am) are fine. So it's a crapshoot.

Edit: I take from 14-16 credits per semester, hovering mostly between 4 and 5 classes.

 

[blueshockey]

First of all, congratulations on your acceptance into medical school! You mentioned that you had to study for a WEEK as though that is a lot of studying. At my sister's Harvard Extension, they do homework every single day ALL day, ALL through the semester. A week's study at Harvard Extension will get them an F. And the % that gets into medical school after Harvard Extension's formal post-bacc program is a relatively low 33% because of transcript damage at Harvard Extension. Something is wrong somewhere. Such things factor in when I choose where to take pre-med classes.

Well thank you! Actually, I could totally see that in a post-bacc program. I think those undergraduate institutions where you have to study every day all day just to have some semblance of a hope of surviving a course are probably few and far between. I've honestly never heard of anyone having that much of a course-load in undergraduate course-load. It probably would also have something to do with the individual as well, not everyone is built to withstand that kind of load. That being said, post-bacc work is a bit more murky for me, as I don't know that many people that are involved with that kind of work. I would imagine it would tend to be much more difficult and dense, even more pronounced because Harvard isn't known as a place that is a cake-walk anyway.

 

[noncon]

Well thank you! Actually, I could totally see that in a post-bacc program. I think those undergraduate institutions where you have to study every day all day just to have some semblance of a hope of surviving a course are probably few and far between. I've honestly never heard of anyone having that much of a course-load in undergraduate course-load. It probably would also have something to do with the individual as well, not everyone is built to withstand that kind of load. That being said, post-bacc work is a bit more murky for me, as I don't know that many people that are involved with that kind of work. I would imagine it would tend to be much more difficult and dense, even more pronounced because Harvard isn't known as a place that is a cake-walk anyway.

Actually Harvard is an easy school, so say the Harvard Extension students. It is extremely difficult to get into Harvard, so it is a relatively easy school. But Harvard Extension is like any other Continuing Ed program, so at Harvard Extension, they make you "pay your dues". The only way they know how to do that is by making you work and grading VERY harshly. And they ruin your transcript in the process. It's actually scary. My sister's friend is taking 2 classes, both in Sever Hall of Harvard Extension and she spends her entire week studying in Sever Hall's Grossman Library, which is a library that is about the size of a matchbox. And everyone in her class gets a B-, so if anyone gets a B they celebrate for an hour and return to Grossman to study. If you look at the AAMC data, I bet the people who get 40+ on MCATs and don't get into any medical school are from Harvard Extension. Why would anyone take C's and B'c from Harvard Extension - it's not Harvard after all.

 

[silverturtle]

.

 

[Bangersandmash]

I guess I'll chime in on this since it seems like you haven't gotten any answers to your question really..
I go to University of South Florida and take 16-18 credits per semester and receive a 3.8-4.0 per semester. However, I believe that the rigor of the courses at this University is nothing like the previous college I have attended (ranked number 1 on Forbes almost every year). The exams were all ESSAY and required not only memorization but conceptualization of the material. English and humanities courses were almost impossible to receive an A in even when putting a huge amount of work into the course. In the weed-out courses, Bio I and II it was insane how much work you had to put in to get an A. You had to know the book front to back and actually know how to use the information.

Fast forward to USF and it's laughable. Pretty much all the exams are multiple choice and can be aced by not even studying up until 2 days before the exam. Extra credit is given out like candy. We get cheat sheets in some classes even! So yes to answer your question, the rigor of schools does vary quite a bit and this may have some effect on how many "difficult" classes someone can take and still receive a high grade.

It's been touched upon by others, but this is largely professor and class dependent. Orgo I and II at USF are not multiple choice. You have to know a lot of material and conceptualize it in fill in the blank / short answer / synthetic pathway form. Biochem has less than 10 A's every semester for a 200+ person class. I can't speak for english comp. classes, but classics courses and philosophy courses at USF are largely essay based and even if there are ample extra credit opportunities, professors aren't handing out A's to everyone for their essays.

For all we know, you're number 1 ranked institution could be notorious for grade deflation. At the end of the day, I'll take my 4.0 at the "laughable" USF over the 3.6 at your number 1. My transcript will have the same class after all.

 

[myronnie]

It's been touched upon by others, but this is largely professor and class dependent. Orgo I and II at USF are not multiple choice. You have to know a lot of material and conceptualize it in fill in the blank / short answer / synthetic pathway form. Biochem has less than 10 A's every semester for a 200+ person class. I can't speak for english comp. classes, but classics courses and philosophy courses at USF are largely essay based and even if there are ample extra credit opportunities, professors aren't handing out A's to everyone for their essays.

For all we know, you're number 1 ranked institution could be notorious for grade deflation. At the end of the day, I'll take my 4.0 at the "laughable" USF over the 3.6 at your number 1. My transcript will have the same class after all.

Maybe I'm being a bit too harsh on USF..I have a lot of love for it but yes Orgo II and I are not multiple choice (well if you don't take Bisht..dunno if he's changed) but the problems are all straightforward and multiple are taken from the homework in the book. You know for biochem we have a cheat sheet. Orgo I and II are one of the only science classes that are not multiple choice at USF. I think we are trying to accommodate alot of the students that are not well prepared for science.

 

[lobo.solo]

A full time student takes 12 units. I think it is weird that they make them take 8 units, which is like 2 classes. Like others have said I think is about the professor and how he/she wants to teach the class. I have to say that is crazy to be studying all day for only 2 classes. Even med students here say that they don't study all day long.

 

[Hemorrage]

yeah i'm not sure at what school 12 credits is standard.. at my school 16 is the norm and i typically do 20-24 a semester

 

[noncon]

A full time student takes 12 units. I think it is weird that they make them take 8 units, which is like 2 classes. Like others have said I think is about the professor and how he/she wants to teach the class. I have to say that is crazy to be studying all day for only 2 classes. Even med students here say that they don't study all day long.

Exactly! Even med students don't study all day long. But Extension students are made to work. It's Harvard's way of making them pay their dues - harsh grading coupled with hard work. People go there because it's a steal for the money and for the Harvard name but they end up with very badly damaged transcripts. And it is indeed extremely odd that they take only 2 classes a semester and work all day on them. I wonder if Northwestern's Continuing Ed and Berkeley Extension also damage student transcripts. Does anyone know? Both have reasonable tuition.

 

[lobo.solo]

yeah i'm not sure at what school 12 credits is standard.. at my school 16 is the norm and i typically do 20-24 a semester

There is a minimum # of units a student needs to take to be considered full time by the Uni; of course people take more than the minimum but that's another story. This also changes if its quarter vs semester.

 

[Hemorrage]

Exactly! Even med students don't study all day long. But Extension students are made to work. It's Harvard's way of making them pay their dues - harsh grading coupled with hard work. People go there because it's a steal for the money and for the Harvard name but they end up with very badly damaged transcripts. And it is indeed extremely odd that they take only 2 classes a semester and work all day on them. I wonder if Northwestern's Continuing Ed and Berkeley Extension also damage student transcripts. Does anyone know? Both have reasonable tuition.

Honestly i doubt harvard extension is that difficult. No one needs to study 24/7 in undergrad unless your doing 4-5 heavy duty science courses at once and its finals week. Additionally i don't think harvard extension is "prestigious" at all.. you see advertisements for that place in boston subway

There is a minimum # of units a student needs to take to be considered full time by the Uni; of course people take more than the minimum but that's another story. This also changes if its quarter vs semester.

Yeah that makes sense.. if it was a quarter system then 8-12 would work perfectly since the standard 2 semesters gives 32 on average.. (if you take 16 each)

 

[def1]

yeah i'm not sure at what school 12 credits is standard.. at my school 16 is the norm and i typically do 20-24 a semester

24 credits a semester?

Thats equal to 8 classes at my school. Thats ridiculous.

 

[TipToad]

The credits/hours conversion is so confusing.

4 classes = 4 credits = 16 hours from AMCAS (but in reality is only 12 hours)

 

[Hemorrage]

24 credits a semester?

Thats equal to 8 classes at my school. Thats ridiculous.

yeah i've been doing it for the past 3 semesters to make up for a crappy freshman year.. throwing in 1-2 easy classes a semester helps your GPA quite alot

 

[tarheel1408]

yeah i've been doing it for the past 3 semesters to make up for a crappy freshman year.. throwing in 1-2 easy classes a semester helps your GPA quite alot

You take 8 classes per semester?

 

[Hemorrage]

You take 8 classes per semester?

no no, 24 = 6 classes at my school

 

[tarheel1408]

no no, 24 = 6 classes at my school

Wow I guess I really am a lazy person. I tried taking 5 classes a semester once and I didn't like it much, so I tend to stick with just 4 classes per semester now, not including labs. Yolo?

 

[Hemorrage]

Wow I guess I really am a lazy person. I tried taking 5 classes a semester once and I didn't like it much, so I tend to stick with just 4 classes per semester now, not including labs. Yolo?

Lol believe me i don't "like" this one bit.. i literally spend 24/7 doing work (can't remember the last time i did something fun) but i figured it would be worth the GPA boost/not having to take a gap year. I did 4 labs this semester.. YOLO

 

[Lollygag]

yeah i've been doing it for the past 3 semesters to make up for a crappy freshman year.. throwing in 1-2 easy classes a semester helps your GPA quite alot

Lol believe me i don't "like" this one bit.. i literally spend 24/7 doing work (can't remember the last time i did something fun) but i figured it would be worth the GPA boost/not having to take a gap year. I did 4 labs this semester.. YOLO

I feel your pain lol thinking about doing 25 next semester

 

[Crunk Norris]

I guess I'll chime in on this since it seems like you haven't gotten any answers to your question really..
I go to University of South Florida and take 16-18 credits per semester and receive a 3.8-4.0 per semester. However, I believe that the rigor of the courses at this University is nothing like the previous college I have attended (ranked number 1 on Forbes almost every year). The exams were all ESSAY and required not only memorization but conceptualization of the material. English and humanities courses were almost impossible to receive an A in even when putting a huge amount of work into the course. In the weed-out courses, Bio I and II it was insane how much work you had to put in to get an A. You had to know the book front to back and actually know how to use the information.

Fast forward to USF and it's laughable. Pretty much all the exams are multiple choice and can be aced by not even studying up until 2 days before the exam. Extra credit is given out like candy. We get cheat sheets in some classes even! So yes to answer your question, the rigor of schools does vary quite a bit and this may have some effect on how many "difficult" classes someone can take and still receive a high grade.

Maybe I'm being a bit too harsh on USF..I have a lot of love for it but yes Orgo II and I are not multiple choice (well if you don't take Bisht..dunno if he's changed) but the problems are all straightforward and multiple are taken from the homework in the book. You know for biochem we have a cheat sheet. Orgo I and II are one of the only science classes that are not multiple choice at USF. I think we are trying to accommodate alot of the students that are not well prepared for science.

I think you were being a bit too harsh on USF. The point made about difficulty of classes varying by teacher is a great one and very present here.
Merkler for Biochem doesn't allow cheat sheets.
Yes some questions will be very similar to problems from the book in Orgo, but they were never word for word the same and you had to recognize the mechanism of the particular concept of the problem in the classes I took (conceptualization as opposed to memorization?).
I would like to know how there is any conceptualization of the names of the branches of the phylogenetic tree in bio II and the components of the cell in bio I, those are strictly memorization classes (seriously you can tell me how the tests were essay based and you needed to know the "concepts" as oppose to memorize the material because I don't see it).
Also the notion that tests must be easy because it isn't essay based is incorrect. If you want to take hard m.c. tests at USF take Dao's immunology.
Having said that, USF has tough professors were it is very difficult to get an A in their class without putting forth the appropriate effort. Your previous school probably had more of those professors that were tough when they prepared their exams for their students, but they most likely also had some easy professors that offered bonus's to their students. USF is a state school, it will be somewhat easier to excel there than at the top tiers. But to say that it is "laughable" is... well... laughable.

 

[Bangersandmash]

I think you were being a bit too harsh on USF. The point made about difficulty of classes varying by teacher is a great one and very present here.
Merkler for Biochem doesn't allow cheat sheets.
Yes some questions will be very similar to problems from the book in Orgo, but they were never word for word the same and you had to recognize the mechanism of the particular concept of the problem in the classes I took (conceptualization as opposed to memorization?).
I would like to know how there is any conceptualization of the names of the branches of the phylogenetic tree in bio II and the components of the cell in bio I, those are strictly memorization classes (seriously you can tell me how the tests were essay based and you needed to know the "concepts" as oppose to memorize the material because I don't see it).
Also the notion that tests must be easy because it isn't essay based is incorrect. If you want to take hard m.c. tests at USF take Dao's immunology.
Having said that, USF has tough professors were it is very difficult to get an A in their class without putting forth the appropriate effort. Your previous school probably had more of those professors that were tough when they prepared their exams for their students, but they most likely also had some easy professors that offered bonus's to their students. USF is a state school, it will be somewhat easier to excel there than at the top tiers. But to say that it is "laughable" is... well... laughable.

Bulls unite! I second your thoughts.

Maybe I'm being a bit too harsh on USF..I have a lot of love for it but yes Orgo II and I are not multiple choice (well if you don't take Bisht..dunno if he's changed) but the problems are all straightforward and multiple are taken from the homework in the book. You know for biochem we have a cheat sheet. Orgo I and II are one of the only science classes that are not multiple choice at USF. I think we are trying to accommodate alot of the students that are not well prepared for science.

Merkler and Cai (Tzai) do not have cheat sheets for biochem anymore. They haven't had it for a year or two now. If you want to call out Bisht for using multiple choice, at least explain that only 20 points of every exam were multiple choice questions and not always "gimmies" at that. You still had 80% of the test with mechanisms, fill in the blanks and synthetic pathways. Class averages for Bisht in my Orgo II section were in the 50-60 range. Have you even had any experience at USF outside of the sciences? Every classics course besides ancient greek and latin are purely essay and class discussion format for grades. Philosophy courses are often based on a couple of lengthy term papers that the professors nitpick.

And so this thread doesn't become hijacked by USF...

You're going to get a different experience at every school, but at the end of the day, all universities are accredited and you need to meet certain requirements for your degree. Will you have a tougher time at a school with grade deflation that limits A's to 10% of kids? Yes, because you'll not only have to study more to compete, but you'll be competing against kids who got into Princeton. But at the end of the day, Princeton still has certain notably easy classes with lenient professors and a biology degree is the same there as it is from USF, Harvard, or UCLA.

 

[myronnie]

Bulls unite! I second your thoughts.



Merkler and Cai (Tzai) do not have cheat sheets for biochem anymore. They haven't had it for a year or two now. If you want to call out Bisht for using multiple choice, at least explain that only 20 points of every exam were multiple choice questions and not always "gimmies" at that. You still had 80% of the test with mechanisms, fill in the blanks and synthetic pathways. Class averages for Bisht in my Orgo II section were in the 50-60 range. Have you even had any experience at USF outside of the sciences? Every classics course besides ancient greek and latin are purely essay and class discussion format for grades. Philosophy courses are often based on a couple of lengthy term papers that the professors nitpick.

And so this thread doesn't become hijacked by USF...

You're going to get a different experience at every school, but at the end of the day, all universities are accredited and you need to meet certain requirements for your degree. Will you have a tougher time at a school with grade deflation that limits A's to 10% of kids? Yes, because you'll not only have to study more to compete, but you'll be competing against kids who got into Princeton. But at the end of the day, Princeton still has certain notably easy classes with lenient professors and a biology degree is the same there as it is from USF, Harvard, or UCLA.

Yep I've taken literature classes and an art class obviously those would be essay test. It's not essay versus mc that I'm worried about ..I've been connected to USF for a long time and have watched it grow ..but recently professors have been forced to accommodate students that lack an appropriate science background..its a sentiment that I share with one of my orgo ii teachers and sorry for derailing this thread lol.. and for being so blatantly harsh..

 

[Bangersandmash]

Yep I've taken literature classes and an art class obviously those would be essay test. It's not essay versus mc that I'm worried about ..I've been connected to USF for a long time and have watched it grow ..but recently professors have been forced to accommodate students that lack an appropriate science background..its a sentiment that I share with one of my orgo ii teachers and sorry for derailing this thread lol.. and for being so blatantly harsh..

I know exactly what you are talking about. Coming out of high school having taken AP chem, I was surprised to learn that a bunch of my classmates in Chem I didn't know what a mole was. Many of my friends who took cell bio before biochem complained they had to memorize amino acid structures and the glycolysis pathway because they "got by" cell bio without learning them. Most recently, before our cell bio final was even graded, there was a mass class e-mail encouraging students to e-mail the professor about a curve because the test seemed hard.

There's a similar worrisome trend in Florida high schools of kids being passed through easily because they've already been held back so much. It's breeding a group of students who are being shoveled into higher level classes without ever learning the foundations.

I didn't mean to attack you for being harsh, but I've been a driven, high-achieving student my entire life who chose USF for financial reasons (and a wonderful Honors college!) and I get riled up when my friends, especially ones who bleed orange and blue, call USF a joke. I always challenge them to maintain the 4.0 GPA I have at USF and I always bet them I could do it at UF too. Sure, maybe physics at Cal or MIT is more difficult, but you're not going to obtain a 4.0 anywhere getting smashed every night and neglecting your work.

 

[myronnie]

I know exactly what you are talking about. Coming out of high school having taken AP chem, I was surprised to learn that a bunch of my classmates in Chem I didn't know what a mole was. Many of my friends who took cell bio before biochem complained they had to memorize amino acid structures and the glycolysis pathway because they "got by" cell bio without learning them. Most recently, before our cell bio final was even graded, there was a mass class e-mail encouraging students to e-mail the professor about a curve because the test seemed hard.

There's a similar worrisome trend in Florida high schools of kids being passed through easily because they've already been held back so much. It's breeding a group of students who are being shoveled into higher level classes without ever learning the foundations.

I didn't mean to attack you for being harsh, but I've been a driven, high-achieving student my entire life who chose USF for financial reasons (and a wonderful Honors college!) and I get riled up when my friends, especially ones who bleed orange and blue, call USF a joke. I always challenge them to maintain the 4.0 GPA I have at USF and I always bet them I could do it at UF too. Sure, maybe physics at Cal or MIT is more difficult, but you're not going to obtain a 4.0 anywhere getting smashed every night and neglecting your work.

Haha it's okay..I'm sure you are quite intelligent and driven and I don't think everyone at USF fits the mold that I've described but I 100& agree that it is a school issue. I went to one of the Tampa IB schools and learnedpretty much everything in cell bio in hs. Contrast that with those that had no science whatsoever and still scrape by into the 3000 levels..we can do so much better as a college but it starts early. We've gotta stop teaching towards the FCAT. But eh I'm ranting and ruining the thread..feel free to message me if ya need anything!

 

[Crunk Norris]

Bangers, keep that GPA up through graduation and get that gold medal!

 

[rock2doc]

Just wanted to offer another opinion. This kind of studying is certainly not true for all extension school students. The courses are rigorous but certainly not more difficult than the courses offered at any other good school. Many people work full time jobs, take 2 pre-reqs, and get A's. For some, taking sciences for the first time is a bit of a shock, and Harvard Ext. classes do not hold your hand that much. You need to be pretty comfortable with math up to algebra/trig before you enroll(especially for physics). IMO most people struggling with physics are actually struggling with the mathematics required for the course.

 

[MedWonk]

I got an okay from my sister to mention her school. She is at Harvard Extension. With two classes a semester - 8 credits - she and her friends spend all their time doing homework, especially Physics with one Rueckner teaching them. ALL THEIR TIME doing homework. And they hardly ever get A's, although they do magnificently on the MCAT's. Unfortunately, because of the bad grades at Harvard Extension, the % of people who do get into medical school after Harvard Extension is very low - about the same % as anywhere else (Source: Dr. Fixsen's video talk). My sister and her friends barely have time for volunteering and stuff like that. In contrast, in the 4.0 thread, students seem to be taking 19 credits in very challenging subjects like Biochemistry, Biostatistics and other equally challenging subjects in a single semester. It is a little confusing to me how they manage that in ONE freakin semester.

Sounds like your sister needs to either learn to manage her time better, or get a tutor. I never had trouble having time for ECs/work taking 8 credits at HES. I managed to do it with 12 credits, even, though this was really tough. If she's spending that much time on HW, then she's probably having a lot of difficulty with the concepts. There's no shame and it won't count against her in getting help or cutting back on some EC, especially since GPA+MCAT > ECs/work, but they do expect us to be adults and get help/advice when we need it. No one in HCP will hold your hand unless you go out and ask for it.

As far as damaging GPAs in the program, the barrier to entry for HCP is relatively low. A lot of students are simply not cut out for it. There is nothing special about the prereqs at HES, unless you're telling me UMass (my alma mater) is all of a sudden a prestigious, academic powerhouse notorious for its rigorous coursework. The grading scheme for all the classes I've taken have been fair, and in one class (Bio), the prof himself admitted 1/3 of the class got at least an A-. I took a semester of gen chem and a semester of physics in undergrad, and there was nothing in the curriculum at HES that differed significantly from what I took at UMass almost 10 years ago.

 

[PreMedJock]

Jesus...all you guys going to big name schools, and here I am at a small LAC..intimidating to say the least

 

[Josieisonfire]

.

 

[PreMedJock]

I know the feel. I also go to a tiny LAC D;

I mean, don't get me wrong, it's still a good school and I'm sure yours is too. They're just not big names

 

[sieg5]

I think getting good grades is more a matter of choice as long as you have the time available.

 

[Juxxtaposition]

I think getting good grades is more a matter of choice as long as you have the time available.

That is true, I am at Cal. It is doable if you invest enough time.

 

[Dadcore]

That is true, I am at Cal. It is doable if you invest enough time.

Why hello there fellow golden bear!
As you said, getting a 4.0 is totally doable.
(Unless you happen to be engineering-inclined )
Stuff is brutal

 

[World of Worlds]

You guys are crazy. I just want 15 credits per semester and some ECs and part time job.

 

[Liftamulti]

I took 16 hours last semester (and got a 4.0) and will be taking 18 this semester. That's 5 classes in both semesters. I'm not going to say what school I go to. But I'll say I think it's really based on the teacher, not the school. It would be ridiculous to say that a certain school has only x or y type of test or whatever.

 

[Josieisonfire]

.

 

[theWhat]

Most people at my post bacc do 12 credits per quarter for 2 yrs. Labs help boost it to 12 credits. Two science classes with labs do seem to entail a reasonable load in my opinion. I got a 4.0 without too much trouble. Now the question is, will this pass the rigor test when adcoms look at my transcripts? Seems to me if an adcom saw that you were struggling with 8 credits that would be a red flag.

 

[sunflower18]

My school caps the amount of credits you can take. If you take over 18 (4.5 classes), you have to pay extra tuition. Classes that are not 4 credits are hard to come by, so the vast majority of students take 12 or 16 credits every semester.

I have no idea about the difficulty of my classes/school. What I do know is that none of my science classes have had multiple choice exams -- every single exam in every single science I've taken (biology, chemistry, neuroscience) has been essay, critical thinking, grad level problem solving, etc. I feel as though I really learn the material instead of just memorize it, as it is really important to conceptualize the information in order to do well on tests.

I have a high GPA, but I don't feel as though As are handed out at my school by any means. I think that I work really hard, and I get out what I put in. It is very difficult to compare one's work ethic or class difficulty between schools, unless you've experienced a handful of different institutions. I have not, so all I can speak to is what I know -- most people in my classes don't get As, but I am able to do well by studying ~15-20 hours a week for each class. I assume the other people who get As do a similar amount of work, or are just more naturally gifted than I am. Who knows.

 

[neurotroph]

I go to one of the HYP schools and have given up all hope of getting a 4.0 for a semester lol