Question for the Physician Army vets

[BigNavyPedsGuy]

I was eating lunch in my civilian hospital cafeteria today and noticed an Army Major eating a table over. I went over and said hello and asked what brings an Army Major to this neck of the woods (4+ hours from any base). He said he was recruiting. We had a friendly conversation about the HPSP program. He tried to recruit me to the reserves and assured him that I was finished my military experience. He stated that in the Army "they wouldn't deploy a pediatrician" unless you volunteered. I siad that wasn't true and I knew otherwise. He said that anybody who was a brigade surgeon had taken that position to get promoted and was therefore volunteering to deploy. "You don't see Captains being Brigade Surgeons".

Anyway, I offered to consult my sources and get back to him, but that didn't sound even a little bit true. You can reply to this thread (might be entertaining) but if you are interested and/or willing to contact him, I have his card. PM me and I can give you his info. Nice guy, maybe we can help him be more knowledgeable about the system he's recruiting to.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Slevin]

I've seen a captain as a BDE surgeon.

 

[Member 1337]

I would go so far as to say "most BDE Surgeons are CPT's," and "pediatricians will deploy." I'm not sure, though, if it's worth kicking against the goads of Army recruiting...

 

[Homunculus]

ummmmm. not sure if i fault the guy-- he's just regurgitating what he's been told. at least that's what i tell myself to keep from hulking out. it's like i've said before-- ignorant at best, deceptive at worst. maybe he meant the reserves? but the fact he spouts this as truth is disheartening. you should have written the sdn web address down and told him to come do some research, lol.

i can list a half dozen people without even thinking hard who did BDE surgeon slots as CPT without needing to use any secondhand stories. some right after residency, some a couple years in. i agree the trend is shifting away from using CPT's, i assume because that position needs some "oomph" behind it as a brigade staff position. they also probably think someone with more military experience may do a better job. whatever. what it really means is the same "generation" that was raped and pillaged for these positions as junior staff fresh out of residency are now being raped and pillaged again as MAJ/LTC for the same positions. go figure. i won't argue that some people volunteer for BDE surgeon billets-- because it's viewed as a necessity for O6 and also because some people would take it as a way out of whatever position they may be in if they're miserable.

likewise, i can list twice as many people who deployed and didn't volunteer. most for a year, some longer. some lucky ones maybe got to split. even now, no one is volunteering that i know of to go-- though the op tempo does look to have dropped.

i'm interested in his reserves spiel. i will be at 14 yrs when my ADSO is up, and while i won't double my income i can definitely do some damage. i've considered looking into the reserves to get the last 6, and i'm ok with waiting to collect it since i plan on working anyway-- or if i decide other non-medical pursuits interest me and generate some income. i've known others to take this path and seems to be working out ok. they have just enough military exposure to remind them why they left, but still get to keep building toward some retirement cheese.

--your friendly neighborhood the secret is i'm always angry caveman

 

[colbgw02]

Part of this whole BDE surgeon fiasco that started about 2.5 years ago was because FORSCOM was tired of seeing O-3s serve as brigade staff officers. The focus on rank outside of us medical-type folks really can't be overstated, so this was really a thorn in FORSCOM's side that MEDCOM was consistently filling these positions "inappropriately". Nevermind that they don't really understand what we do, grasp our training, and can't even comprehend that the GMO or newly minted FM attending is equally (perhaps even more) capable than a subspecialized surgeon to fill these largely administrative positions. So, now we've got pediatric cardiologists wasting away at staff meetings, but he's the right rank, so all is right in FORSCOM's world. In any case, chances are this guy is new to recruiting, and he comes from a world where an O-3 would no more serve as a brigade staff officer than an E-4 would be a platoon leader. If this guy doesn't know or understand the institutional history, then he may reasonably believe that brigade staff officers are always at least O-4s, because that's what they're "supposed" to be.

 

[BlackFrancis33]

I know multiple Brigade Surgeons who didn't volunteer, most O-4 and above. I know of at least 2 radiologists who got this gig right out of Residency, which is an early career killer. Right now if you are in an over-strength specialty in the Army, peds subspecialties and radiology are two specialties getting hit especially hard right now, then it seems like they are just going down the line handing out these positions regardless of prior deployments. I know a Peds cardiologist and Developmental Pediatrician who have gotten stuck with this gig, and there was nothing voluntary about it. The crappy thing is that this isn't considered a deployment, and you spend 2 years away from your specialty. I would rather deploy for 4-6 months, and you can always get deployed with your unit while you are a brigade surgeon.

 

[DeadCactus]

Guard and Reserve are currently limited to 90 day deployments by policy making them poor candidates for brigade surgeons unless they do volunteer to go for a full 9+ month deployment. Reserves stereotypically deploy stateside to backfill for AD physicians sent abroad. The Guard stereotypically deploys to a Role 1 or Role 2. Won't deploy? Hard to believe. Won't deploy as a brigade surgeon? Not as ridiculous as such a statement would be on AD side...

Those with counter examples, are you talking RC or AD?

 

[DrMetal]

He stated that in the Army "they wouldn't deploy a pediatrician" unless you volunteered.

This statement alone would make me question his understanding/intentions. As a recruiter, when you're trying to recruit someone (for any job), you should never tell the applicant that they won't deploy by force. Of course you might deploy, you're joining the frickin military. The only way to ensure that you don't deploy is to remain a civilian.

 

[edmadison]

I sure as hell didn't volunteer for either of my deployments.

Ed

 

[Gastrapathy]

"Unless you volunteer" is always true. It's an all volunteer military.

 

[DeadCactus]

I sure as hell didn't volunteer for either of my deployments.

Ed

Are you AD or RC?

 

[jabreal00]

I was in the sandbox this past fall. There was a National guard (NG) Neonatal Pediatrician there. The way he explained it he "volunteered" but in reality it was about picking the best out of the upcoming deployments. NG and Reserves work on a point scale when it comes to retirement and promotion. The time they get activated during deployments speeds up their time. So even though they "volunteer" most Reservists deploy (3-6 months) every 3-4 years.

 

[edmadison]

Are you AD or RC?

One each, and hopefully not counting.

Ed

 

[BigNavyPedsGuy]

I sent the link to this thread to him via e-mail. Curious to see if I hear back. I doubt that I will.

Thanks for responses guys/girls.

 

[dtn3t]

After being away from SDN for years, this is the first post I see. The dysfunction continues!

Former O3 Captain here, spent 33 months directly out of a pediatric residency as an AD Brigade Surgeon. Not my choice to be a BDE Surgeon, nor was it my choice be the most junior officer on BDE staff and told to take notes during meetings. That quickly changed when they realized I didn't understand anything they were saying (What's a FLIPL? MDM what? COA? FRAGO? SPO? CHOPS?). There was a BDE SURG course at the time, but no one in my chain (peds or my BDE) felt it was necessary because that meant someone was going to have to pay the TDY for it.

Happy to educate any recruiters because it's obvious AMEDD {still} isn't doing so.

 

[BigNavyPedsGuy]

PM me if

After being away from SDN for years, this is the first post I see. The dysfunction continues!

Former O3 Captain here, spent 33 months directly out of a pediatric residency as an AD Brigade Surgeon. Not my choice to be a BDE Surgeon, nor was it my choice be the most junior officer on BDE staff and told to take notes during meetings. That quickly changed when they realized I didn't understand anything they were saying (What's a FLIPL? MDM what? COA? FRAGO? SPO? CHOPS?). There was a BDE SURG course at the time, but no one in my chain (peds or my BDE) felt it was necessary because that meant someone was going to have to pay the TDY for it.

Happy to educate any recruiters because it's obvious AMEDD {still} isn't doing so.

PM me if you'd like his contact info. Nice guy. Clueless, but nice.

 

[Gastrapathy]

That's a dangerous phenotype. I'd add unwilling to educate himself. These forums pop up at the top of any good mil med google search.