question regarding 2012 app cycle.

[joeydoc2b]

Let me first introduce myself. I am a nontrad student, 32 years old, and a former math teacher, seven years. I have decided to pursue medicine three years ago and since then I have been working hard on getting there (prereq, volunteer, etc&#8230. The plan was to apply to this cycle (2011). Unfortunately, I had to change that after receiving a horrible mcat score. I had decided to retake physics I and II (first took them 9 years ago), and I also took Biochem and Genetics, in which I 've gotten all A's on . The current plan is to restudy for the mcat, April-July, and retake it in July. My question is should I wait till I receive my new score before applying, or can I just submit my app with the old horrible score when the cycle opens up in June for early consideration and mention that I will retake it? Would schools filter me out for that matter? I am looking forward to any constructive inputs.
Thanks!

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[FrkyBgStok]

what was your score? if you got a 10 before, they will probably throw out your app. if you got a 25 and there is an indication that you will retake, they may give out an interview or hold your app.

i had questioned this, but I decided that I am doing my application while I am waiting for my scores so i am not taking away valuable study time to try to get an incomplete at in. i am retaking may 21st though so I will still be pretty early after my scores come back

 

[joeydoc2b]

what was your score? if you got a 10 before, they will probably throw out your app. if you got a 25 and there is an indication that you will retake, they may give out an interview or hold your app.

i had questioned this, but I decided that I am doing my application while I am waiting for my scores so i am not taking away valuable study time to try to get an incomplete at in. i am retaking may 21st though so I will still be pretty early after my scores come back

Not a 10 lol, but a 22 9P 8B 5V. Also, do school start reviewing apps as soon as one's been verified?

 

[catswym]

I would wait to submit amcas until I knew my score, if I were in your shoes. RIght now you don't even know if you are going to do significantly better since you haven't been re-taking practice tests yet.

Are you applying DO or MD? I don't know too much about DO stuff but it seems like you want 26+ for DO and 31+ for MD.

You can take the test and get amcas ready to submit the day you find out your score.

 

[EdLongshanks]

I would wait to submit amcas until I knew my score, if I were in your shoes. RIght now you don't even know if you are going to do significantly better since you haven't been re-taking practice tests yet.

Are you applying DO or MD? I don't know too much about DO stuff but it seems like you want 26+ for DO and 31+ for MD.

You can take the test and get amcas ready to submit the day you find out your score.

Big mistake. The AMCAS has to be verified. If you wait and submit your AMCAS after you know your score in August, then you will still be waiting for your application to reach the schools in late September, your secondary will then not be completed and received for another set of weeks. You could be looking at a Nov 1 app complete date.

You can put 1 school on the AMCAS and hit submit on June 1. This allows your app to be verified so that it is ready to be submitted to schools on the day that you receive your score. This puts you in a mid-Sept range for your app completion date. This is late, but still in range.

 

[catswym]

Big mistake. The AMCAS has to be verified. If you wait and submit your AMCAS after you know your score in August, then you will still be waiting for your application to reach the schools in late September, your secondary will then not be completed and received for another set of weeks. You could be looking at a Nov 1 app complete date.

You can put 1 school on the AMCAS and hit submit on June 1. This allows your app to be verified so that it is ready to be submitted to schools on the day that you receive your score. This puts you in a mid-Sept range for your app completion date. This is late, but still in range.

I was just stating what I would do. Secondarily to that I think one should be able to turn around secondaries in a day given that the essay questions are on SDN.

 

[EdLongshanks]

I was just stating what I would do. Secondarily to that I think one should be able to turn around secondaries in a day given that the essay questions are on SDN.

Yes, you can turn them around, but that is only after receiving them, you them. As you know, many places don't even send out the secondary invite for a couple of weeks, they then don't mark you file complete after you send in the secondary for another couple of weeks.

Hitting submit on the AMCAS for the first time in late August is not a good idea.

 

[catswym]

Yes, you can turn them around, but that is only after receiving them, you them. As you know, many places don't even send out the secondary invite for a couple of weeks, they then don't mark you file complete after you send in the secondary for another couple of weeks.

Hitting submit on the AMCAS for the first time in late August is not a good idea.

I didn't know places make you wait weeks for the secondary in august?

It also makes a difference whether the OP was thinking of taking the mcat on july 1 or july 31st (I had been assuming more the former).

 

[vc7777]

Let me first introduce myself. I am a nontrad student, 32 years old, and a former math teacher, seven years. I have decided to pursue medicine three years ago and since then I have been working hard on getting there (prereq, volunteer, etc…). The plan was to apply to this cycle (2011). Unfortunately, I had to change that after receiving a horrible mcat score. I had decided to retake physics I and II (first took them 9 years ago), and I also took Biochem and Genetics, in which I 've gotten all A's on . The current plan is to restudy for the mcat, April-July, and retake it in July. My question is should I wait till I receive my new score before applying, or can I just submit my app with the old horrible score when the cycle opens up in June for early consideration and mention that I will retake it? Would schools filter me out for that matter? I am looking forward to any constructive inputs.
Thanks!

Not a 10 lol, but a 22 9P 8B 5V. Also, do school start reviewing apps as soon as one's been verified?

Hmmm, First, I think it is inadvisable for you to apply at this time. I am sure you are feeling under pressure at your age. However, things may go very bad if you rush this.

At the very least, I would wait till you have your next MCAT score. Better to have a good, well developed, thought-out, and polished application with a decent MCAT score later in the season. Focus on your MCAT right now. Do not get distracted with your application. That is, don't worry about the next hurdle while you still are trying to get over this one.

Yes, if you gamble, you may have both an early application and a great score. But it's just that: a gamble. And unfortunately your past MCAT is the best predictor of your new MCAT score. Knowing nothing else about your application, it is a very big gamble.


Second: Frankly, I wonder how much reflection you have given on your last MCAT? Your verbal is very low. What was your letter grade? How much time as left over after each section? Did you feel rushed?

I know you mentioned you were a math major and are retaking physics and science classes. But how are you addressing this weak-point? If anything, the verbal section is where you can get the "most bang for your buck". Meaning, raising your score from 5 up to 10 is much much easier than trying to raise your 9 in Physics to a 14 - even though both are 5 point increases. Your time is probably better spent on Verbal.

Any way you slice it - your main task right now is to focus on your MCAT - NOT your application. Don't worry about what dress to wear to the ball before you've even been invited to attend.

Final thoughts: As a math major, you are probably focusing too much on the Physics section. A 10-10-10 30 is way better than a 15-10-5 score, ok? As for improvement on your Physics, you likely do not need to worry much more about the actual material as much as worry about test taking skills.

In particular, you are probably doing the cardinal "nerd-sin" on the MCAT: Derivations and anything greater than approximations in the physics section. These slow you down. Speed, in my personal opinion, is the only major difference between at 15 and a 12 in this section. My advice to you: memorize each major formula for the Physics section already solved for each variable and approximate the answers when possible.


For example, in uniform acceleration there are 5 variables, and you should just memorize 5 variants of the equation. You can do this memorization any way you like - I practiced writing out a mega-chart of formulas for weeks before the exam. At the beginning of the test - I just used the first 60 seconds before I even started the exam I churned out my chart of formulas. Done. Reference formulas instantly available. Plug and chug.

The second problem is solving the math. Often the answers are given as something like:
a) 14 km
b) 1.4km
c) 140 m
d) 14 m

Approximate, wing-it, move on. Don't solve - your answers need only be to the nearest order of magnitude. Don't do the math - they give you the integer of the answer already - they just want the exponent. If you approximate and get 200m as your answer - the answer is c. Done - move on.

 

[Pons Asinorum]

I didn't know places make you wait weeks for the secondary in august?

Lots of schools screen primaries, so you don't get a secondary until they've reviewed your application and granted you one. Not every school sends out secondaries to every applicant (i.e. some schools want more than just your application fee )

 

[catswym]

Lots of schools screen primaries, so you don't get a secondary until they've reviewed your application and granted you one. Not every school sends out secondaries to every applicant (i.e. some schools want more than just your application fee )

imagine that! I guess I just didn't realize I didn't I didn't apply to any of them.

anyway, vc7777 said what I was trying to get at MUCH more eloquently and thoughtfully.

 

[joeydoc2b]

I would wait to submit amcas until I knew my score, if I were in your shoes. RIght now you don't even know if you are going to do significantly better since you haven't been re-taking practice tests yet.

Are you applying DO or MD? I don't know too much about DO stuff but it seems like you want 26+ for DO and 31+ for MD.

You can take the test and get amcas ready to submit the day you find out your score.

Thanks for your input.
I am mostly applying to DO schools and my state MDs only. The reason being is my undegrad GPA is sub 3.0 in math and that really hurts my BCMP GPA for MD. On the other hand, DO doesn't count math as part of science GPA; my science GPA for DO is 3.48 and 3.20 Overall. I also took 48 credits post bac with a 3.8 GPA, and I also have a masters 3.78 GPA. Realistically, I know MD schools can be careless since they seem to be focused more on the negativities. Thus, I am not going even bother applying all over and waste money that I don't have.
I am personally more concerned about what will be under my name more than the two letter next to it.

 

[joeydoc2b]

Hmmm, First, I think it is inadvisable for you to apply at this time. I am sure you are feeling under pressure at your age. However, things may go very bad if you rush this.

At the very least, I would wait till you have your next MCAT score. Better to have a good, well developed, thought-out, and polished application with a decent MCAT score later in the season. Focus on your MCAT right now. Do not get distracted with your application. That is, don't worry about the next hurdle while you still are trying to get over this one.

Yes, if you gamble, you may have both an early application and a great score. But it's just that: a gamble. And unfortunately your past MCAT is the best predictor of your new MCAT score. Knowing nothing else about your application, it is a very big gamble.


Second: Frankly, I wonder how much reflection you have given on your last MCAT? Your verbal is very low. What was your letter grade? How much time as left over after each section? Did you feel rushed?

I know you mentioned you were a math major and are retaking physics and science classes. But how are you addressing this weak-point? If anything, the verbal section is where you can get the "most bang for your buck". Meaning, raising your score from 5 up to 10 is much much easier than trying to raise your 9 in Physics to a 14 - even though both are 5 point increases. Your time is probably better spent on Verbal.

Any way you slice it - your main task right now is to focus on your MCAT - NOT your application. Don't worry about what dress to wear to the ball before you've even been invited to attend.

Final thoughts: As a math major, you are probably focusing too much on the Physics section. A 10-10-10 30 is way better than a 15-10-5 score, ok? As for improvement on your Physics, you likely do not need to worry much more about the actual material as much as worry about test taking skills.

In particular, you are probably doing the cardinal "nerd-sin" on the MCAT: Derivations and anything greater than approximations in the physics section. These slow you down. Speed, in my personal opinion, is the only major difference between at 15 and a 12 in this section. My advice to you: memorize each major formula for the Physics section already solved for each variable and approximate the answers when possible.


For example, in uniform acceleration there are 5 variables, and you should just memorize 5 variants of the equation. You can do this memorization any way you like - I practiced writing out a mega-chart of formulas for weeks before the exam. At the beginning of the test - I just used the first 60 seconds before I even started the exam I churned out my chart of formulas. Done. Reference formulas instantly available. Plug and chug.

The second problem is solving the math. Often the answers are given as something like:
a) 14 km
b) 1.4km
c) 140 m
d) 14 m

Approximate, wing-it, move on. Don't solve - your answers need only be to the nearest order of magnitude. Don't do the math - they give you the integer of the answer already - they just want the exponent. If you approximate and get 200m as your answer - the answer is c. Done - move on.

Really appreciate your input and the sheer of info provided. So you think that I shouldn't apply to 2012 cycle even if I am leaning more toward DO or at least wait till I get a good mcat score. I can sadly say that I went to the verbal with a below level confidence. I was actually trying diff methods while taking the actual test. Crazy. First I started mapping and stopped, then I was using the EK method. I was able to finish 5 out of the 7 passages. I had to actually guess for the remainder passages. But this time around, I have been working on my reading speed and comprehension, which I am honestly lacking of. I have been reading various books and sources ( litterature, philosophy, etc..) a lot since january ( hour a day). But, I am still haven't started working out verbal passages. Do you think that's a good idea? Any additional method I should use for the verbal?

 

[vc7777]

Really appreciate your input and the sheer of info provided. So you think that I shouldn't apply to 2012 cycle even if I am leaning more toward DO or at least wait till I get a good mcat score. I can sadly say that I went to the verbal with a below level confidence. I was actually trying diff methods while taking the actual test. Crazy. First I started mapping and stopped, then I was using the EK method. I was able to finish 5 out of the 7 passages. I had to actually guess for the remainder passages. But this time around, I have been working on my reading speed and comprehension, which I am honestly lacking of. I have been reading various books and sources ( litterature, philosophy, etc..) a lot since january ( hour a day). But, I am still haven't started working out verbal passages. Do you think that's a good idea? Any additional method I should use for the verbal?

First, to re-iterate: yes. I think you will do much better all-around (DO or MD) with a higher MCAT. Nobody will ever argue that you shouldn't put more energy into your MCAT first.

Second: Is English your first language? (Forgive me for asking so bluntly, it is very easy to make assumptions on this website). This adds a whole new level of complexity to your rapid-comprehension challenges. If it isn't your first language, I think some of the successful ESL members on here may be better able to give you suggestions. For that, I am not sure I am a good resource.

Regardless of whether you are an ESL-applicant, I think being very self-reflective on your past performance is advisable. Beyond the mechanics of reading, try and identify patterns of both correct or incorrect answer types. Obviously, you realize that your speed (or rather, pace) is critical for a good score. If you are guessing on two whole sections, you might want to consider other strategies like attacking passages out-of-order. Once again, being a hard-science person you are probably trying to push through the passages in the order they are given to you. Invariably, in my experience, the last one is NOT the hardest passage. If you do them in order, you may be spending too much time on difficult passages that you will probably end up with wrong answers not matter how much time you spend on them. At the same time, you may be missing easier questions that will help your score - remember, each question is equally important to your score.

 

[Prncssbuttercup]

For example, in uniform acceleration there are 5 variables, and you should just memorize 5 variants of the equation. You can do this memorization any way you like - I practiced writing out a mega-chart of formulas for weeks before the exam. At the beginning of the test - I just used the first 60 seconds before I even started the exam I churned out my chart of formulas. Done. Reference formulas instantly available. Plug and chug.

vc7777, can you PM more about this? Physics is what I'm most afraid of in the whole test, any help or advice is appreciated!

Additionally, I am taking my MCAT May 21st, and wondering if I should wait for my score or if I should just apply without knowing? I have NOT taken the practice tests yet, but I have been studying. Any thoughts?

 

[vc7777]

vc7777, can you PM more about this? Physics is what I'm most afraid of in the whole test, any help or advice is appreciated!

Additionally, I am taking my MCAT May 21st, and wondering if I should wait for my score or if I should just apply without knowing? I have NOT taken the practice tests yet, but I have been studying. Any thoughts?

PM me your specific concerns. No promises, ok? Caveat Emptor

 

[Mindscrew]

#1. start reading: a. wall street journal. b. new yorker c. economist d. scientific american

you verbal is terrible
your science isn't there yet
everything matters on your mcat being non trad in my opinion b/c your ranked against other students
so stop doing anyting but focus..10 hours a day if you can afford it

 

[Mindscrew]

although you are clearly smart...you are not training well
do the kaplan online if you can. its very expensive but that is the price of admission. get your basic reviews in

 

[0919mmk]

#1. start reading: a. wall street journal. b. new yorker c. economist d. scientific american

you verbal is terrible
your science isn't there yet
everything matters on your mcat being non trad in my opinion b/c your ranked against other students
so stop doing anyting but focus..10 hours a day if you can afford it

Try not to take this personally OP - (little harsh IMO mindscrew) - you KNOW that your verbal score is your main issue obviously, so focus on that. Personally, I think Kaplan is good for verbal improvement, if only because it forces you to do so much of it.

I know this is probably the most common-knowledge advice ever, but it's invaluable: do as many real sections as you can! The more you do full-lengths and real sections from AAMC, the fewer surprises there will be on test day. My MCAT is in 2 weeks, and right now I am doing 3 full-lengths a week (Kaplan ones and aamc ones - if you are in the kaplan class, you get acess to 11 aamc full-lengths and 6 Kaplan full lengths).

Kaplan is very expensive, but just to throw it out there, you get $250 off for signing up early, and $250 off for joining AMSA. You have a long way to go with your MCAT score, so I would seriously consider something like this. Good luck.

 

[Pons Asinorum]

#1. start reading: a. wall street journal. b. new yorker c. economist d. scientific american

That is lowest-yield way of improving your verbal score imaginable. Memorizing the Oxford American English dictionary may be slightly worse. To get good at MCAT verbal, you need to practice MCAT verbal. Get the TPRH Verbal Workbook, the EK Verbal book and 101 for verbal, do them, and then start religiously and methodically taking the AAMC FL exams, all nine of them, spending hours (no really, hours) reviewing the questions, answer stubs, and correct/incorrect answer rationale's. MCAT scores improve from practicing MCAT.

 

[joeydoc2b]

I am not offended nor taking those advices personal. I am rather thankful for them. In a nutshell, You guys advice me to study harder and more efficient for the upcoming exam, with more emphasis on the verbal.
Kaplan course is out of the pic, since I clearly cannot afford it at this moment. I do however recently bought the EK verbal, BR chemistry and Nova physics. I still don't know which material to use for ORG chem. Any suggestion! Anyone has a study schedule they want to share? I am not a big fun of the Sners schedule as it s more beneficial to trad students. I work full-time right now but will be working partime for the summer while studying for the beast.

Thanks all!

 

[joeydoc2b]

First, to re-iterate: yes. I think you will do much better all-around (DO or MD) with a higher MCAT. Nobody will ever argue that you shouldn't put more energy into your MCAT first.

Second: Is English your first language? (Forgive me for asking so bluntly, it is very easy to make assumptions on this website). This adds a whole new level of complexity to your rapid-comprehension challenges. If it isn't your first language, I think some of the successful ESL members on here may be better able to give you suggestions. For that, I am not sure I am a good resource.

Regardless of whether you are an ESL-applicant, I think being very self-reflective on your past performance is advisable. Beyond the mechanics of reading, try and identify patterns of both correct or incorrect answer types. Obviously, you realize that your speed (or rather, pace) is critical for a good score. If you are guessing on two whole sections, you might want to consider other strategies like attacking passages out-of-order. Once again, being a hard-science person you are probably trying to push through the passages in the order they are given to you. Invariably, in my experience, the last one is NOT the hardest passage. If you do them in order, you may be spending too much time on difficult passages that you will probably end up with wrong answers not matter how much time you spend on them. At the same time, you may be missing easier questions that will help your score - remember, each question is equally important to your score.

No and Yes. No for the fact that I was born here, and yes since I spoke two diff languages besides english growing up, and I also lived outside the US during my early age. I had to be placed in ESL classes when I started attending school here ( 5th grade).Also, reading was never been reinforced at my house. So i am partly blaming my parent for my low verbal score, although I love them dearly, lol.

 

[Pons Asinorum]

Anyone has a study schedule they want to share? I am not a big fun of the Sners schedule as it s more beneficial to trad students.

I would take a look at the 4-month version of that. It works. It won't be fun doing it with a full-time job, but some things in life are worth it.