Questions for M3/M4 Students

[ChurroSmellingCologne]

Hello everyone!

I have been aware of the change of USMLE Step 1 to P/F. Moreover, my medical school is lower/mid tier MD, not true P/F, does rank, and also selects AOA. I am interested in pursuing a competitive residency (hopefully in either an integrated surgical sub-specialty or interventional radiology). I have a couple of questions for you folks:

1) How are you making your application "stand out" to program directors for residencies? How can I get secure a solid MSPE for my ERAS?
2) What additional activities did you accomplish during your pre-clinical years?
3) I have read many other SDN posts regarding "networking". How do you network with and contact other research/clinical faculty?
4) How long (on average) did you prepare for Step 2 CK?
5) I have an additional master's in healthcare administration/systems, with a data analytics certification. How will this impact my future apps?

Thank you for your time and input!

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[voxveritatisetlucis]

AOA and research as well as LORs are pretty much the only other things that matter. Coming from a low tier, research especially specialty specific research can be very hard to come by. Faculty tend to not really care about publishing. Then again, it depends on how low tier you’re talking. Schools like “Wayne state” (which personally many consider to be mid tier) has plenty of research opportunities whereas others like Rosalind and Drexel have fewer given that they have no home programs or hospitals

 

[ChurroSmellingCologne]

AOA and research as well as LORs are pretty much the only other things that matter. Coming from a low tier, research especially specialty specific research can be very hard to come by. Faculty tend to not really care about publishing. Then again, it depends on how low tier you’re talking. Schools like “Wayne state” (which personally many consider to be mid tier) has plenty of research opportunities whereas others like Rosalind and Drexel have fewer given that they have no home programs or hospitals

Perfect, thanks! Just one more follow-up...can you provide me any insight into how to increase the yield of publications with a PI/in a lab?

Anecdotally, many of the other candidates whom I have observed matching into competitive specialties (like plastics) often have 10+ publications, with an apparent Google search indicating the mean being 14.2 pubs in a 2018 survey (Integrated Plastic Surgery Applicant Review: Important... : Plastic and Reconstructive Surgery – Global Open)

Bottom line...how do med students get that many publications in 4 years? Is it luck, networking, generous PIs? Just wondering

Edit: Oh yes, I forgot one more thing haha...since I presume you are either an M3 or M4, how much time did you devote to Step 2 CK prep, assuming you took Step 1 when it was P/F?

 

[star-lily]

Perfect, thanks! Just one more follow-up...can you provide me any insight into how to increase the yield of publications with a PI/in a lab?

Anecdotally, many of the other candidates whom I have observed matching into competitive specialties (like plastics) often have 10+ publications, with an apparent Google search indicating the mean being 14.2 pubs in a 2018 survey (Integrated Plastic Surgery Applicant Review: Important... : Plastic and Reconstructive Surgery – Global Open)

Bottom line...how do med students get that many publications in 4 years? Is it luck, networking, generous PIs? Just wondering

Edit: Oh yes, I forgot one more thing haha...since I presume you are either an M3 or M4, how much time did you devote to Step 2 CK prep, assuming you took Step 1 when it was P/F?

The "publications" number includes actual publications (manuscripts on PubMed), presentations at conferences, and abstracts. The latter two are easier to get than the former, so you can see how people can easily inflate their numbers. Any publications etc. from before med school also count.

 

[ChurroSmellingCologne]

The "publications" number includes actual publications (manuscripts on PubMed), presentations at conferences, and abstracts. The latter two are easier to get than the former, so you can see how people can easily inflate their numbers. Any publications etc. from before med school also count.

Right! Thanks for clarifying that.

Would you be able to elaborate on how some students obtain multiple manuscripts on PubMed? How long do they typically take to publish?

Thanks again!

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Right! Thanks for clarifying that.

Would you be able to elaborate on how some students obtain multiple manuscripts on PubMed? How long do they typically take to publish?

Thanks again!

At elite schools, you work alongside faculty who are well renowned in their field who have 500+ publications and know how to publish. Thus, people at these schools can get published easily

 

[ChurroSmellingCologne]

At elite schools, you work alongside faculty who are well renowned in their field who have 500+ publications and know how to publish. Thus, people at these schools can get published easily

So what's the best way to go about establishing a connection and network with them, and how do med students join those labs as research assistants?

 

[pierty]

At elite schools, you work alongside faculty who are well renowned in their field who have 500+ publications and know how to publish. Thus, people at these schools can get published easily

This is not true. The reason why manuscript numbers are inflated is because most are not traditional manuscripts - i.e., those with basic/translational research or clinical trials. They are case studies, review papers, or middle-author papers where the student did not contribute much work. Program directors significantly conducting research understand this.

Keep an open mind starting school - your specialty interests can and likely will change. Finding a strong friend group that is supportive and low-stress, and acclimating to medical school, are much more important right now. This is a marathon, not a sprint.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

This is not true. The reason why manuscript numbers are inflated is because most are not traditional manuscripts - i.e., those with basic/translational research or clinical trials. They are case studies, review papers, or middle-author papers where the student did not contribute much work. Program directors significantly conducting research understand this.

Are there really tenured faculty at schools like Harvard that only publish every 3+ years? Not talking about clinical faculty. That’s how it is at some low tier schools

 

[pierty]

Are there really tenured faculty at schools like Harvard that only publish every 3+ years? Not talking about clinical faculty. That’s how it is at some low tier schools

It's not as common, but sometimes older, tenured professors nearing retirement will publish that infrequently.

I was mainly referring to the students rather than the professors - the reason the manuscript # is inflated is generally not because they are working in a well known PI's lab which allows them to publish a lot, but instead because they are generally publishing small case reports, chart reviews, etc. that take much less time to prepare. Generally, more established PIs are interested in larger/longer term projects that amount to a few (or even a single) large papers a year, rather than dozens of small manuscripts that MD students can publish very quickly while working part-time.