Radiation Oncology Job Market - ACR Webinar

[thecarbonionangle]

I love a good snark as much as the next guy. However, I happen to know these people.

Some perspective. I trained at NYMC and it's an excellent medical school. Did my home rotation with Dr. Moorthy at Westchester Medical Center. Great guy with a real passion for education. Edward Halperin is also the Chancellor at NYMC and still sees patients. I remember during the handful of weeks I was there I "logged" like 4 pedatric cases, including a bone marrow transplant. Also did a total skin electon treatment (not a ped case). They did a lot of HDR brachy too. Educational quality was pretty high.

They actually used to have a residency program a while back. It closed down a while ago and I never got the inside scoop on why. But I can tell you he was talking about trying to re-open it back when I was rotating through the department.

There's still no reason to open any more residency programs in this country. I think we're all in agreement on that point. For WMC specifcally though, I don't think it's laziness or a desire for cheap labor. There are multiple dedicated educators there and I think that's their motivation.

Carry on with your snarking.

yeah man money is never the motivation, just the absolute love of service and teaching. I commend them leading in the education arena.

the Drexel program had Luther Brady and he still saw patients. The program fell apart. Reopening a place that has already been shut down seems like a great idea! It was a great idea when Drexel did it as well!

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[deleted774703]

I love a good snark as much as the next guy. However, I happen to know these people.

Some perspective. I trained at NYMC and it's an excellent medical school. Did my home rotation with Dr. Moorthy at Westchester Medical Center. Great guy with a real passion for education. Edward Halperin is also the Chancellor at NYMC and still sees patients. I remember during the handful of weeks I was there I "logged" like 4 pedatric cases, including a bone marrow transplant. Also did a total skin electon treatment (not a ped case). They did a lot of HDR brachy too. Educational quality was pretty high.

They actually used to have a residency program a while back. It closed down a while ago and I never got the inside scoop on why. But I can tell you he was talking about trying to re-open it back when I was rotating through the department.

There's still no reason to open any more residency programs in this country. I think we're all in agreement on that point. For WMC specifcally though, I don't think it's laziness or a desire for cheap labor. There are multiple dedicated educators there and I think that's their motivation.

Carry on with your snarking.

I’ve looked at list of all ACGME programs last 17 years and they aren’t on list

Looks like last resident was 2002?

Voluntary withdrawal 2004

 

[scarbrtj]

I love a good snark as much as the next guy. However, I happen to know these people.

Some perspective. I trained at NYMC and it's an excellent medical school. Did my home rotation with Dr. Moorthy at Westchester Medical Center. Great guy with a real passion for education. Edward Halperin is also the Chancellor at NYMC and still sees patients. I remember during the handful of weeks I was there I "logged" like 4 pedatric cases, including a bone marrow transplant. Also did a total skin electon treatment (not a ped case). They did a lot of HDR brachy too. Educational quality was pretty high.

They actually used to have a residency program a while back. It closed down a while ago and I never got the inside scoop on why. But I can tell you he was talking about trying to re-open it back when I was rotating through the department.

There's still no reason to open any more residency programs in this country. I think we're all in agreement on that point. For WMC specifcally though, I don't think it's laziness or a desire for cheap labor. There are multiple dedicated educators there and I think that's their motivation.

Carry on with your snarking.

"Dedicated" and well-intentioned. Know none of these people personally except Halperin tangentially. You buried the lede on that. It gnaws at Ed the distance from academic rad onc he feels not having his hand in an academic rad onc department, much less a top-name one. Full disclosure I consider Ed to be the most brilliant rad onc in the world. But I see all these people "dedicated" to climate change e.g., and they fly in private jets and drive SUVs. Perspective is a helluva thing.

 

[theradiator]

I love a good snark as much as the next guy. However, I happen to know these people.

Some perspective. I trained at NYMC and it's an excellent medical school. Did my home rotation with Dr. Moorthy at Westchester Medical Center. Great guy with a real passion for education. Edward Halperin is also the Chancellor at NYMC and still sees patients. I remember during the handful of weeks I was there I "logged" like 4 pedatric cases, including a bone marrow transplant. Also did a total skin electon treatment (not a ped case). They did a lot of HDR brachy too. Educational quality was pretty high.

They actually used to have a residency program a while back. It closed down a while ago and I never got the inside scoop on why. But I can tell you he was talking about trying to re-open it back when I was rotating through the department.

There's still no reason to open any more residency programs in this country. I think we're all in agreement on that point. For WMC specifcally though, I don't think it's laziness or a desire for cheap labor. There are multiple dedicated educators there and I think that's their motivation.

Carry on with your snarking.

With all due respect, why don't they just continue doing a great job of educating their medical students without opening another unnecessary program

 

[thompa]

With all due respect, why don't they just continue doing a great job of educating their medical students without opening another unnecessary program

I agree. No need for another residency program.

 

[thompa]

"Dedicated" and well-intentioned. Know none of these people personally except Halperin tangentially. You buried the lede on that. It gnaws at Ed the distance from academic rad onc he feels not having his hand in an academic rad onc department, much less a top-name one. Full disclosure I consider Ed to be the most brilliant rad onc in the world. But I see all these people "dedicated" to climate change e.g., and they fly in private jets and drive SUVs. Perspective is a helluva thing.

Brilliant is an excellent description. Having a conversation with him was always intimidating. He's not that involved with the Rad Onc department though, his focus was the med school. I worked with him more in that context than I did through the radiation department. Always got the impression that his sights were focused on medical education more broadly, but maybe it does gnaw at him. I still found him to be an excellent, and yes "dedicated" teacher. Maybe he'll join SDN like Dr. Spratt and weigh in! Heh.

As a wet-behind-the ears med student I certainly had no appreciation for the politics and economics of resident labor back then. I'm sure there's some "administrative" interest in getting a residency program at WMC, which again, really should not happen. But I definitely interviewed at other NYC-area programs that have no business "teaching" residents, and this place wouldn't fall into that category.

 

[deleted774703]

Brilliant is an excellent description. Having a conversation with him was always intimidating. He's not that involved with the Rad Onc department though, his focus was the med school. I worked with him more in that context than I did through the radiation department. Always got the impression that his sights were focused on medical education more broadly, but maybe it does gnaw at him. I still found him to be an excellent, and yes "dedicated" teacher. Maybe he'll join SDN like Dr. Spratt and weigh in! Heh.

As a wet-behind-the ears med student I certainly had no appreciation for the politics and economics of resident labor back then. I'm sure there's some "administrative" interest in getting a residency program at WMC, which again, really should not happen. But I definitely interviewed at other NYC-area programs that have no business "teaching" residents, and this place wouldn't fall into that category.

If it’s as good as you say, there are plenty of crap NYC programs that could be replaced and cut

Looking at you NY Methodist (don’t care if NYP bought them) and Downstate

Straight trash programs

 

[medgator]

If it’s as good as you say, there are plenty of crap NYC programs that could be replaced and cut

Looking at you NY Methodist (don’t care if NYP bought them) and Downstate

Straight trash programs

Columbia?

 

[deleted774703]

Columbia?

Well they decided to not give me an interview so I can’t speak on them without sounding salty

Actually f it shut them down too whooooo jk lol

 

[medgator]

Well they decided to not give me an interview so I can’t speak on them without sounding salty

Actually f it shut them down too whooooo jk lol

Any place that tries to sell an inpatient Palliative fellowship deserves it badly

Fellowship Program

Advanced Radiation Oncology Clinical Fellowship – Columbia University, NYC

cancer.columbia.edu

 

[GapCalc]

Anyone watching this thing?

 

[Gfunk6]

Anyone watching this thing?

I watched he last 15 min or so. Unfortunately, they only had time for two questions for the Q&A:

#1 Is it hard to get a job in your preferred geographic region after graduation?

Nobody said a hard "No, but . . ." to this question. The answers offered (paraphrased) were:
* You are 95% likely to get a job eventually in your first geographic region
* Your first job will not be your last job
* Just like we make choices for med school based on a variety of factors, you will need to do same in job search

#2 Given results of latest Match, what can we do to encourage med students to go into RO?

* Change MS curriculum to incorporate RO training
* Make sure it is a valid choice in published materials which educate med students about their residency options
* RO applications are cyclical, were great for several years but pretty low in mid to early 1990s. It will get worse before it gets better

 

[medgator]

Sounds like it was a fest? I think the only way you get us MD student interest up again is cut slots significantly. Easy answer, hard to implement

 

[yesmaster]

Zoom does afford insight based on body language.

For the prepared questions regarding job search strategies and future of radiation oncology, all participants held strong eye contact and nodded in unison. Everything is great, or will be great after the virus is controlled.

When it came time for audience questions on poor job satisfaction in relation to geography, and declining student interest in RO in light of trainees' job market concerns, the panel was uncomfortably silent and fidgety.

 

[beamseyeview]

KO, on the state of the field: "It is the best that I have seen in my almost 20 year career."

 

[Chartreuse Wombat]

KO, on the state of the field: "It is the best that I have seen in my almost 20 year career."

Next he will say "it's got the GREATEST people"

 

[elementaryschooleconomics]

I assume the ACR will make the video for this available and everyone can watch for themselves if they want. I appreciate the effort of the organizers and the panelists for doing this! However, I didn’t hear anything groundbreaking/novel (nor did I expect to). Some general points:

1. They hit the networking theme hard. I think every panelist brought up networking in various forms multiple times. Vapiwala specifically brought up doing away rotations as a resident to both gain experience in a certain modality your home program might lack as well as making you “known” to the department. I won’t really belabor the point here - we all know what networking is. They did bring up that networking is a normal part of most careers - which I agree with, obviously. For me personally, I feel like we mock “networking” to get a job in RadOnc because it seems unusual for a career as a physician. I don’t care what a lawyer or accountant has to do to land a good job - I care about other physicians. It’s apples and oranges.
   
   
2. Savioz - literally said that “90% of RadOncs change jobs within their first two years”. I have never heard that before, does anyone know if there’s a source for that? It didn’t sound like hyperbole but perhaps it was and I shouldn’t take it literally. She also said we shouldn’t worry about jobs because “boomers are preparing for retirement”, though she said this statement without considering that residents have doubled in the past 10 years (or any of the other common counter-arguments). I’m paraphrasing here, but she basically threw out an endorsement of “the midwest is nice” totally unprompted talking about geographic concerns.
   
   
3. Vapiwala - somehow worked in the new ASTRO-Varian and ASTRO-AstraZeneca fellowships as a new direction for the field? I was very confused as to her point here - these embedded fellowships are brand new and I believe only 2 people were selected (one for each) out of 200 residents? I don’t see how this is a scalable solution, or what novel career opportunities these residents could pursue.
   
   
4. Olivier - went full KO. Though he may have been speaking off the cuff, he specifically highlighted cardiac SBRT as a way our field is expanding its demand. While I think cardiac SBRT is amazing, it seems...unlikely...this will experience widespread adoption in the next decade. That was an interesting argument for him to make. Perhaps if we combine cardiac SBRT with the lattice technique we can accommodate 200 residents a year!
   
   
5. Gondi and Butler - standard private practice stuff (networking is good). Specifically said the opposite of Savioz that people are “hired for life”, not “90% switch jobs”.
   
   
6. The other thing that came up was the old trope of “the sky is always falling in Radiation Oncology and we’re still here”. I pretty much wrote a dissertation countering this argument but yes...in the past 20 years people worried about the field and it SOMEHOW survived (*cough* IMRT explosion *cough). I think academicians miss the forest for the trees when they pull this one out and would do well to examine the economics of our specialty over the last 30 years.

I’m sure I’m forgetting things and will update if they come to me.

 

[elementaryschooleconomics]

I assume the ACR will make the video for this available and everyone can watch for themselves if they want. I appreciate the effort of the organizers and the panelists for doing this! However, I didn’t hear anything groundbreaking/novel (nor did I expect to). Some general points:

1. They hit the networking theme hard. I think every panelist brought up networking in various forms multiple times. Vapiwala specifically brought up doing away rotations as a resident to both gain experience in a certain modality your home program might lack as well as making you “known” to the department. I won’t really belabor the point here - we all know what networking is. They did bring up that networking is a normal part of most careers - which I agree with, obviously. For me personally, I feel like we mock “networking” to get a job in RadOnc because it seems unusual for a career as a physician. I don’t care what a lawyer or accountant has to do to land a good job - I care about other physicians. It’s apples and oranges.
   
   
2. Savioz - literally said that “90% of RadOncs change jobs within their first two years”. I have never heard that before, does anyone know if there’s a source for that? It didn’t sound like hyperbole but perhaps it was and I shouldn’t take it literally. She also said we shouldn’t worry about jobs because “boomers are preparing for retirement”, though she said this statement without considering that residents have doubled in the past 10 years (or any of the other common counter-arguments). I’m paraphrasing here, but she basically threw out an endorsement of “the midwest is nice” totally unprompted talking about geographic concerns.
   
   
3. Vapiwala - somehow worked in the new ASTRO-Varian and ASTRO-AstraZeneca fellowships as a new direction for the field? I was very confused as to her point here - these embedded fellowships are brand new and I believe only 2 people were selected (one for each) out of 200 residents? I don’t see how this is a scalable solution, or what novel career opportunities these residents could pursue.
   
   
4. Olivier - went full KO. Though he may have been speaking off the cuff, he specifically highlighted cardiac SBRT as a way our field is expanding its demand. While I think cardiac SBRT is amazing, it seems...unlikely...this will experience widespread adoption in the next decade. That was an interesting argument for him to make. Perhaps if we combine cardiac SBRT with the lattice technique we can accommodate 200 residents a year!
   
   
5. Gondi and Butler - standard private practice stuff (networking is good). Specifically said the opposite of Savioz that people are “hired for life”, not “90% switch jobs”.
   
   
6. The other thing that came up was the old trope of “the sky is always falling in Radiation Oncology and we’re still here”. I pretty much wrote a dissertation countering this argument but yes...in the past 20 years people worried about the field and it SOMEHOW survived (*cough* IMRT explosion *cough). I think academicians miss the forest for the trees when they pull this one out and would do well to examine the economics of our specialty over the last 30 years.

I’m sure I’m forgetting things and will update if they come to me.

Oh also re: this standard "boomers will retire" line. In a field such as ours there's a fixed number of people graduating every year. The people who are coming up for retirement would be coming up for retirement regardless of generation. I don't think there's some secret stash of baby boomers outnumbering other folks and a glut of jobs are on the horizon. It just doesn't make sense.

 

[medgator]

Oh also re: this standard "boomers will retire" line. In a field such as ours there's a fixed number of people graduating every year. The people who are coming up for retirement would be coming up for retirement regardless of generation. I don't think there's some secret stash of baby boomers outnumbering other folks and a glut of jobs are on the horizon. It just doesn't make sense.

Wishful thinking that boomers will be leaving jobs soon. Many boomers practice well beyond when they should be practicing with their grandfathered lifetime BC. It isn't like surgery or something

 

[medgator]

KO, on the state of the field: "It is the best that I have seen in my almost 20 year career."

KO probably is the least qualified to be on that panel considering his propensity for gaslighting. probably still doesn't think hypofx affects the job market

 

[RickyScott]

Oh also re: this standard "boomers will retire" line. In a field such as ours there's a fixed number of people graduating every year. The people who are coming up for retirement would be coming up for retirement regardless of generation. I don't think there's some secret stash of baby boomers outnumbering other folks and a glut of jobs are on the horizon. It just doesn't make sense.

Very disappointing. For hundredth time, networking doesn’t increase the total number of jobs. Specialty is ruined for new grads.

 

[yesmaster]

On the state of the field: "It is the best that I have seen in my almost 20 year career."

To reconcile the exciting advances of RO and the job market concerns of trainees, to paraphrase one of the panelists, the solution is obvious.

Get medical students who want to be in the rural Midwest and are happy with lower incomes, and still have outstanding qualifications. To do this, emphasize the intangible positives of RO and plug it in as a required (?!) rotation, elective, and preceptorship early in medical school. That's what I gathered is the current plan of the PD's.

 

[deleted774703]

Great summary @elementaryschooleconomics

Savioz was off her rocker saying 90% get new job within 2-3 yrs

The stat is 70% new job within 3 years but that’s for all GME grads not RO

No RO specific number that I know of

Very disappointed in Vapiwala. I don’t need to do a fellowship with AZ. Drug reps send me emails to join them now as a stupid job already

KO was KO sigh. Rad Onc never been treating more pts. Uhhhh what are you saying....

Butler was so bullish on the RO market beyond belief. I don’t know wtf he was on tonight

Gondi was clueless. Go back to hippocampus sparing

 

[elementaryschooleconomics]

To reconcile the exciting advances of RO and the job market concerns of trainees, to paraphrase one of the panelists, the solution is obvious.

Get medical students who want to be in the rural Midwest and are happy with lower incomes, and still have outstanding qualifications. To do this, emphasize the intangible positives of RO and plug it in as a rotation, elective, and preceptorship earlier in medical school. That's what I gathered is the current plan of the PD's.

This reads accurately to me.

Perhaps also plan on doing away rotations as a resident?

 

[RickyScott]

A

I love a good snark as much as the next guy. However, I happen to know these people.

Some perspective. I trained at NYMC and it's an excellent medical school. Did my home rotation with Dr. Moorthy at Westchester Medical Center. Great guy with a real passion for education. Edward Halperin is also the Chancellor at NYMC and still sees patients. I remember during the handful of weeks I was there I "logged" like 4 pedatric cases, including a bone marrow transplant. Also did a total skin electon treatment (not a ped case). They did a lot of HDR brachy too. Educational quality was pretty high.

They actually used to have a residency program a while back. It closed down a while ago and I never got the inside scoop on why. But I can tell you he was talking about trying to re-open it back when I was rotating through the department.

There's still no reason to open any more residency programs in this country. I think we're all in agreement on that point. For WMC specifcally though, I don't think it's laziness or a desire for cheap labor. There are multiple dedicated educators there and I think that's their motivation.

Carry on with your snarking.

actually you are dead wrong. Dr Moorthy has an appalling reputation when it comes to exploitation.

 

[thecarbonionangle]

This reads accurately to me.

Perhaps also plan on doing away rotations as a resident?

how many programs actually allow this? I doubt a majority. Most places barely give you more than six months for research. Your value is in clinic making attending lives easier so that fat chairmen can make even more money. To send someone away for an “away rotation” is likely impractical in current culture and environment for many.

George Carlin would say something like this about rad onc programs: imagine the average bad rad onc program you know of and are familiar with, now realize at least half of these places are even worst than you think. There are many bad no good programs out there, truly aweful places. If Vapiwala is the best we have, we are in deep trouble folks!

 

[Mandelin Rain]

Honest question; did anyone expect anything else?

 

[elementaryschooleconomics]

Honest question; did anyone expect anything else?

I definitely did not.

What I'm looking for at this stage of the game is for leadership to start acknowledging there might be a problem with doubling the number of RadOncs in such a short time span, absent a doubling of need. Eichler's Tweet was encouraging.

Next I would like ASTRO/ACR/ACRO/ARS, basically everybody, to fund an economic/workforce study by RAND or some similar organization with the experience, tools, and ability to get appropriate answers. Not Ben Smith or any other physician doing some casual economic forecasting in our specality's primary journal.

While this economic study is happening, I would like programs to, at best, start contracting, but at minimum banning any new programs from opening.

Then we can go from there.

 

[Mandelin Rain]

Radiation oncology job outlook: You'll probably be able to aggressively network your way to A job

 

[MegaVoltagePhoton]

This webinar sounds like a total joke!

 

[Mandelin Rain]

Over/under on “respectful disagreements” between panelists during webinar set at 2.

So... was it the over or the under? Sounds like the under won.

 

[fiji128]

how many programs actually allow this? I doubt a majority. Most places barely give you more than six months for research. Your value is in clinic making attending lives easier so that fat chairmen can make even more money. To send someone away for an “away rotation” is likely impractical in current culture and environment for many.

George Carlin would say something like this about rad onc programs: imagine the average bad rad onc program you know of and are familiar with, now realize at least half of these places are even worst than you think. There are many bad no good programs out there, truly aweful places. If Vapiwala is the best we have, we are in deep trouble folks!

My program was like this. No way would you ever be able to do an elective away rotation for "networking" unless you used your own vacation time.

 

[fiji128]

The webinar sounds like no one could give any serious answers or advice or insight. Just a lot of image management sort of things. At the end of the day none of that will help fix the fundamental supply and demand problem we have with our services. It's sad that this group of "leaders" is unwilling to clearly articulate that as the root problem in such a forum.

 

[Mandelin Rain]

The webinar sounds like no one could give any serious answers or advice or insight. Just a lot of image management sort of thing. At the end of the day none of that will help fix the fundamental supply and demand problem we have with our services. It's sad that this group of "leaders" is unwilling to clearly articulate that as the root problem in such a forum.

They all suckle at the teat of resident supply/quality. Even the partner in the (business minded) private practice involved. Can't say anything that would adversely impact either.

 

[tomballunger]

I’m sorry to be a negative Nancy but this webinar will go nowhere. There was a panel interview at last year’s ASTRO that basically just said they couldn’t do anything for fear of legal issues or didn’t think there was a problem. The ACR has literally no power over contracture of residency positions (and honestly isn’t that influential in the RO world). the ACGME committee who attempted to remedy the problem by increasing minimum requirements really only made it so that residents can be worked to the bone (raising the maximum from 250 to 350 case per year it I remember correctly).

It will take a revolution of sorts to correct this problem. If there is not, RO will essentially become like Pathology or Canadian ROs where even people graduating from top programs have to do a fellowship.

Here are my predictions from this webinar:

1. Network early to get into the region you want and use personal connections
2. Work hard in residency, publish and earn respect from your PD and Chairman who might go to bat for you
3. Your first job won’t be your last so you can eventually get into the location you want
4. Try to do locums at places that you want to work at
5. Use the ASTRO jobs board/GoogleJobs/PracticeLink
6. New jobs will spring up throughout the year
7. Fellowships might give you more opportunities

Sorry to rant but seeing these job market webinars just grinds my gears.

This original prediction was exactly what was stated in the webinar

 

[OTN]

I was bothered by the data-free "90% of you will change jobs in the first year" argument that kept coming up. First of all, it was 70% in the first 3 years when I graduated, and there wasn't any data back then, either. There is no data- zero- to suggest that 90% of radoncs change jobs in the first year. In our practice, locally, we've hired 5 radoncs over the last decade, and precisely 1 left. I strongly believe the number is completely made up.

Secondly, if the number is true, then we have a huge problem. Moving your spouse and kids to an entirely different part of the country is a HUGE deal. If you're a woman radonc, the odds are you're married to a man with a good job/career (I realize I'm being heteronormative here and situations will be different for everyone), which will make it very, very difficult (if not impossible) for that to occur.

Arguing "you can just get a better job in a few years!" even if that's true, strikes me as coming from an anachronistic time where there was a single breadwinner in the household. If our leaders do truly care about increasing diversity in our field, they need to understand that moving to find a better job is a big barrier for a lot of potentially interested medical students.

 

[elementaryschooleconomics]

This original prediction was exactly what was stated in the webinar

Interestingly, in contrast to the prediction (and historical advice), doing locums was not suggested.

An acknowledgement that the locums market is miserable perhaps?

Ugh, resident away rotations were suggested instead of locums - a chair's dream scenario!

 

[thecarbonionangle]

Interestingly, in contrast to the prediction (and historical advice), doing locums was not suggested.

An acknowledgement that the locums market is miserable perhaps?

Ugh, resident away rotations were suggested instead of locums - a chair's dream scenario!

“welcome to my institution lukewarm body with a faint pulse from another institution, you will soon receive your scut assignment, and I’m not even paying you” . Mr Burns “Exceeeeeelent” follows

 

[Mandelin Rain]

The outside rotation thing would have been a non-starter at my residency. You would have had to do it over a vacation. Even then, you probably would have had to do so quietly as to not make it known you had no intention to stay on as staff after the residency servitude.

I'm also not sure how that week looks for you. "Hi fellow PGY5 in desirable location/department. I'm here on a protracted interview to potentially take a job that may have been offered to you. Can you show me the ropes?"

Though, Penn residents should feel free to request months away from their residency to interview, I mean rotate, at other institutions as this suggestion originated among their staff.

 

[RickyScott]

Hi fellow PGY5 in desirable location/department. I'm here on a protracted interview to potentially take a job that may have been offered to you. Can you show me the ropes?"

My initial thought as well.

 

[evilbooyaa]

I've cleaned this thread up a little bit to move the prostate LDR/HDR/SBRT discussion to its own thread, given the significant discussion about the webinar itself that we should have here.

90% change jobs in first 2 years is so horribly incorrect that it makes me question the intelligence of the person who said it.
As most predicted, nothing mind-blowing was said. The same tired tropes of 'lol guys it's all OK'.

Although the part about residents doing aways was interesting to me.
I do know of residents from at least a few programs that have successfully done outside rotations (excluding the St. Jude rotation for peds that many a program do). Off the top of my head I'm aware of it at least being an option at University of Maryland and U of Colorado.

I had inquired about doing a visiting rotation for a few months during my protected research time and was told "well go ahead but we can't or won't pay you for those few months", which ended that conversation very quickly.

 

[scarbrtj]

' ' Go work with the best people to become the best doctor that you can be. I don't care if they're at this institution. You have our support. ' '

- - Real life conversation with PD in a specialty that is not radiation oncology

"...[R]adiation oncologists are amongst the only specialists who eat their young."

- Chris Rose, January 1997

 

[deleted774703]

Well maybe something is in the water at SERO

After big dawg Butler ranting last night, we have lil pup Ward virtue signaling today

(designations by seniority )

 

[evilbooyaa]

Well maybe something is in the water at SERO

After big dawg Butler ranting last night, we have lil pup Ward virtue signaling today

(designations by seniority )

But there was an appropriate "this is a strawman" from our main comrades Simul and lemmiwenks on the thread. Even Dan Spratt with the "who says hypofx is destroying the field". Strawman argument was pretty successfully called out as being a strawman.

People that have claimed "several people" have made that comment, likely referencing SDN.

Also, I'm now imaging that SERO's mascot is a Bulldog. Thanks for that.

Here we go Bulldogs, here we go, woof woof.

Give me a S, Give me a E, Give me a R, give me a O, what does it spell? SERO!

 

[scarbrtj]

Well maybe something is in the water at SERO

After big dawg Butler ranting last night, we have lil pup Ward virtue signaling today

(designations by seniority )

Good for patients.
Exacerbates a rad onc oversupply

This post brought to you for the million and oneth time

 

[elementaryschooleconomics]

But there was an appropriate "this is a strawman" from our main comrades Simul and lemmiwenks on the thread. Even Dan Spratt with the "who says hypofx is destroying the field". Strawman argument was pretty successfully called out as being a strawman.

People that have claimed "several people" have made that comment, likely referencing SDN.

Also, I'm now imaging that SERO's mascot is a Bulldog. Thanks for that.

Here we go Bulldogs, here we go, woof woof.

Give me a S, Give me a E, Give me a R, give me a O, what does it spell? SERO!

I think SERO distributes talking points like a political party. I had an unrelated conversation with another member of the practice recently and we talked about the state of Radiation Oncology - this person had very similar views (and phrasing) as Butler.

However, if I had a stranglehold on a large geographic area with dominance assured for years to come...I would also be very bullish.

 

[Mandelin Rain]

Residency expansion is a slide. Hypofractionation is water. Water is good for everyone. It hydrates. It makes you buoyant. But... when it's on a slide, it makes the rider go downhill faster. Correct the slide. Keep the water.

 

[evilbooyaa]

Residency expansion is a slide. Hypofractionation is water. Water is good for everyone. It hydrates. It makes you buoyant. But... when it's on a slide, it makes the rider go downhill faster. Correct the slide. Keep the water.

KO's Twitter in response to the above post:
SDN hates waterparks! What a bunch of animals! Who hates a water park? Rad oncs love water parks for all the extra skin cancer that they get to treat!

 

[scarbrtj]

Rad oncs love water parks for all the extra skin cancer that they get to treat!

And then American Academy of Dermatology shows up and is all
"We do more radiation for skin ca than the rad oncs, you're so cute KO"

 

[thecarbonionangle]

Last week, I recently heard of a BC rad onc who has decades of experience who cannot find a job. Applying very broadly, no luck.

Also heard places like Carlsbad decided not to hire someone due to changes in supervision rules. They pulled offers. It is happening already folks