Radiology Lifestyle questions

[Rad2013]

Just out of curiosity, not in medicine, but why isn't radiology by far the most competitive specialty in medicine?
Making 850k as a partner with 27 weeks off seems like a dream job... derm, ortho, neurosurg etc. can't even size up to that

Is there a catch (other than night shift)?

I can't speak to all groups. But, at my group, moonlighting opportunities to increase income are typically undesirable shifts. In my group, often the available shifts are extra nights (particularly weekend nights) and day shifts during peak vacation times (throughout Summer and around holidays). So to boost your income that high... you sacrifice additional weekends (remember, you already work 1/3rd of weekends) and time off during periods of time when people typically want time off... Summer and holidays. The other time moonlighting opportunities pop up are when someone is out unexpectedly (illness, bereavement, etc). In which case, you have to be able to pick the shifts up with little notice.

It creates a rather erratic schedule. But for a single person, or at least people without kids, it can work.


For the record. I live in a large city. The largest in my state and one of the largest in the region.

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[ToothJockey]

I can't speak to all groups. But, at my group, moonlighting opportunities to increase income are typically undesirable shifts. In my group, often the available shifts are extra nights (particularly weekend nights) and day shifts during peak vacation times (throughout Summer and around holidays). So to boost your income that high... you sacrifice additional weekends (remember, you already work 1/3rd of weekends) and time off during periods of time when people typically want time off... Summer and holidays. The other time moonlighting opportunities pop up are when someone is out unexpectedly (illness, bereavement, etc). In which case, you have to be able to pick the shifts up with little notice.

It creates a rather erratic schedule. But for a single person, or at least people without kids, it can work.


For the record. I live in a large city. The largest in my state and one of the largest in the region.

Ah I see, for a single guy it really is a great gig. With family/kids it might be tougher to make it work, but good for you for finding a good opportunity and capitalizing on it. Can you estimate how many hours you work per year total (including moonlighting)?

 

[Rad2013]

In 2019 I think it was between 1750-1800 total.

 

[Radology]

You worked an average of 35 hours a week, with all of your shifts overnight including 1:3 weekends, on site for 450k

I take back what I said about corporate valuing overnight rads

 

[odyssey2]

You worked an average of 35 hours a week, with all of your shifts overnight including 1:3 weekends, on site for 450k, and you feel “valued?”

He said 630k with moonlighting, which I think he’s including with the total hours

 

[Rad2013]

He said 630k with moonlighting, which I think he’s including with the total hours

Correct.

 

[libertyyne]

Will tightening of the job market make fellowship not necessary anymore or will this trend of essentially required fellowship continue?

What sort of hurdles are there for starting private practice or contracting with a hospital to provide reads ?

Are there practices where you eat what you read? Are these a bad deal usually?

How expensive is malpractice insurance comparitively ?

 

[odyssey2]

Eating what you read sounds disgusting

 

[Splenda88]

Honestly the only thing that pisses me off to no end is how little control we have. ED docs order every ****ing thing under the sky because they cannot make any diagnosis without imaging and we have no say what they order.

It's everywhere; that is why they get criticized by most services in the hospital.

 

[Radology]

Fellowship already isn’t required; particularly if you want to do tele for below market rates. Many have offers out of residency nowadays, they just tend to be bad ones.

it’s virtually impossible to start a private practice nowadays. You either need massive capital to support the equipment/infrastructure or a group of 20+ friends with non competes all willing to jump in and displace an already established groups contract. Although, I think a lot of these Radpartners/envision practices are going to fold after buyouts are paid and they are unable to staff, so they would be ripe for a new PP forming from the ashes

plenty of practices offer bonuses for meeting productivity/rvu criteria. A true “pay per study” model is isolated to nighthawk and corporate and is Always a bad deal

malpractice depends on where you practice and multiple other variables (how often you’ve been sued, experience, etc). It’s typically in the low 5 figure range annually per rad

 

[thatsrad]

General radiology without fellowship isn’t just for below market tele jobs and nighthawk, although that is one option. Many rads who don’t do fellowship have no problem getting jobs with small PP groups. A lot of corporate jobs are also open to the non-fellowship trained rad. Pseudo academic positions at one of the “clinics” are also available, usually covering one of the smaller hospitals. The caveat is that you have to be competent and willing to read most studies and do basic procedures. It’s a myth that fellowship is needed for most jobs. Only if you want to live in one of the saturated huge city markets or want true academics. Getting a fellowship will only open an additional small slice of jobs within your subspecialty and jobs with highly subspecialized large groups.

 

[thatsrad]

As for eating what you read, you won’t find that often outside of certain corporate tele jobs, and if you do, you should run. Paying by RVU is the surest way to destroy an otherwise stable group.

 

[thatsrad]

as far as salary right now a newly fellowship trained rad should receive anywhere from 300-350k starting but nothing below that unless its part time (speaking only about day positions). anything higher has to be taken with a grain of salt for example i had another job offer from my home medical school however they were asking me to cover more ED and essentially id be working alone which is a recipe for burnout right out of fellowship.

$300-350k is low for a starting position unless you are on a partnership track. For example, a 2 year partnershiptrack making $325, whereas the partners make $625, you essentially are buying in with $600 plus whatever less vacation/benefits you got compared to partner.

I’d say PP true equal owner partnership positions range from $500-800 depending on how much the group values lifestyle and the location/local market factors. *Caveat is NYC, where most jobs are total crap outside of academics.

The VA pays $300-350, as well as a lot of true academic positions. But outside of that, most of people from my graduating class and years prior who took employed positions were making mid-$400s before moonlighting. The IR people made $50-100 more.

 

[Radology]

That buy in analogy makes no sense

by that logic, in academics Or corporate your buy in is 200k * every year you work there, without ever getting the full distribution for the work you generate

 

[Timtom98]

1. Yes

2. Pay is often redistributed throughout a group by some mechanism—if it were not for this, you would see imbalances in pay even between diagnostic subspecialties. Anyway, to answer your question while DR generates more in a group, IR pay is often higher because they take more call.

ive heard IR loses money for some PP groups... is this true?

also why does eat what you kill have a bad rap? isnt it fair to make more if u read more?

hopefully these big private practices fold and we get some more smaller ones

 

[Radology]

Yes. IR is often subsidized by DR in big groups.

You can always churn more patients through a scanner; you can only do so many procedures

eat what you kill leads to toxicity. The RVU assigned to each case is really arbitrary. Reading a lumbar spine mri with contrast takes about 10 minutes. Reading a whole body PET/CT with 10 priors can take 45 minutes. But the lumbar spine mri counts for the same RVU

So now the nucs reader feels he is getting the shaft because the neuro guy is getting paid 4x for the same amount of work.

so he starts to cherry pick the easy studies off other people’s lists, like negative dvt us. Then the US reader gets pissed that their easy money is being stolen by someone else.

so they start dumping their disaster cases to the next person on the shift.

etc, etc

this model also incentivizes reading with reckless Speed and sacrificing quality, and punishes practice building activities like giving tumor board, networking with physicians

 

[thatsrad]

That buy in analogy makes no sense

by that logic, in academics Or corporate your buy in is 200k * every year you work there, without ever getting the full distribution for the work you generate

Except in the corporate or academic gig you’re getting paid at market rate for that job.

in the PP partnership track job, you’re doing the job of a partner in hopes of making partner, purposely getting paid below market rate for a partner for period of time as the “buy in.”

Contrast that to the employee option some PP groups give for potential new hires. I’ve seen groups offer both options, partner track or employee, and sometimes the rad chooses employee. They don’t have to do practice building, go to admin meetings, take call (usually), or have the financial risk of being a partner. For example, a group might offer 2-year partner track at $325/year OR employee at $400-450, depending on call taken.

 

[Radology]

Except that is market rate. It just the market rate for being an employee of a private practice.

Corporate jobs purposely underpay you too when you start. There’s just a smaller reward for that at the end. The starting market rate at Radpartners is a little higher, but still less than what the RP “partners” make. Youre still buying in then too per your logic, just not as much. You’re Just trading a smaller “buy in” during the 2-3 partner track years in return for a 30% pay cut for the next 30 years of your career.

it’s very shortsighted to pick a job based on the partner track years salary. Presuming it works out, You will ultimately make far more money in a traditional private practice

 

[thatsrad]

No, it’s not market rate. That was my point. Haven’t you come across some of these PP groups that are offering both options: either permanent employee or partner track?

Here’s an example of one I saw recently. PP group offering either option, new rad’s choice:

1. Partner track. 2 years, 1st year $300, 2nd year $325. 6 weeks vacation (partners got something like 12-14). Take all weeknight and weekend call that partners take. Have to do practice building.

2. Permanent employee. $450. 6 weeks vacation. No call. No practice building. No meetings.

Say what you want, but option 1 definitely has a substantial “buy in” to become partner. What that *exact* number is can be debated, but it’s real.

Option 2 is market rate. Some people don’t want the partner lifestyle and responsibility, plus the risk your group is sold out before becoming partner. But concessions like no call have to be thrown in to entice people to take lower pay than partner.

 

[Radology]

Option 1: 50% salary shave for 2 years, make 100% of an equal share of the earnings thereafter, go to 5 meetings a year and give a couple conferences.

Option 2: 30% salary shave forever, don’t goto 5 meetings a year or give conference.

The “buy in” in option 1 equals the “buy in” in option 2 after two years as a partner. Option 2 the “buy in” continues indefinitely. you would have to really hate giving conference and going to meetings to forgo 150k a year

“Market rate” is the kinda bs the corporations will spew at you to make you think you’re getting a good deal. The only market rate is 100% of the professional and technical fees your group bills for. And being an equity partner is the only way to achieve that. Everything else is a salary shave.

 

[Clean7795]

Except in the corporate or academic gig you’re getting paid at market rate for that job.

in the PP partnership track job, you’re doing the job of a partner in hopes of making partner, purposely getting paid below market rate for a partner for period of time as the “buy in.”

Contrast that to the employee option some PP groups give for potential new hires. I’ve seen groups offer both options, partner track or employee, and sometimes the rad chooses employee. They don’t have to do practice building, go to admin meetings, take call (usually), or have the financial risk of being a partner. For example, a group might offer 2-year partner track at $325/year OR employee at $400-450, depending on call taken.

Corporate = permanent skim by the business admin, with loss of autonomy (meaning if all rads decided to become corporate employees, they would have significant control over your pay and schedule).

PP = temporary skim by partners for 2 years. PP sets the rate for corporate and other jobs, so you are doing both yourself and fellow rads a disservice if you sign on with corporate when there's a reasonable PP option available.

 

[thatsrad]

I agree with you on that, and by no means am I promoting corporate gigs. I think they’re the worst of all possible options.

But you gotta consider no call in option 2 is worth at least $50k compared to option 1 and full partner, depending on # of shifts. And maybe more for some people, especially if the group covers their own nights.

 

[Radology]

Avoiding call is not worth 6-8 weeks less vacation and 150k less a year

 

[Clean7795]

To clarify things for everyone, corporate pays only according to however much PP is willing to offer. Corporate will often make their entry positions more enticing than PP's entry portion of a partnership track job, but over the long term corporate will certainly leave you worse off because there is a permanent skim on your pay.

Moreover, if you go back to my first sentence, you will realize that if corporate displaced all PP groups, then there would be no pressure for them to pay at the level they currently do. In corporate controlled medicine the end result would maximize the MBA's pay while shrinking yours. And it's not just pay—you would see drops in vacation time and further increases in work hours. PP is only able to set the standard as long as it is the dominant way radiology is practiced.

Lastly for the medical students and junior residents, you've probably heard about ballooning admin costs in medicine and medical training are contributing to how all physicians are getting the raw end of the deal. Signing on for corporate is signing on to give these same types of people more power over you and your career. In a corporate job there's an admin who gets paid 6-7 figures to find ways to make you work harder and for less money.

I agree with you on that, and by no means am I promoting corporate gigs. I think they’re the worst of all possible options.

But you gotta consider no call in option 2 is worth at least $50k compared to option 1 and full partner, depending on # of shifts. And maybe more for some people, especially if the group covers their own nights.

It is definitely a buy-in but I don't think it's unreasonable that partners should reap some reward for their work. The partners are the ones who have built the practice (building good relationships with referrers, expanded imaging modalities, etc.).

From a monetary perspective going corporate is like having a life-long buy-in that never ends.

 

[Timtom98]

Got the memo. Screw corporate. Bring on the small groups to keep the competition. Who wants to start a group with me?

 

[thatsrad]

Agreed. I would personally never take a corporate job or recommend anyone to do so.

I’m more advocating that if someone doesn’t want a partnership for lifestyle reasons (although there are lifestyle oriented groups), it’s not an unreasonable option to consider an employed gig with a good PP group.

Definitely a much better option than corporate. At least it’s radiologists skimming your pay, not private equity and MBA’s. And only because you yourself voluntary chose for your pay to be skimmed, because it is worth it in your situation for whatever reasons. But it’s not worth giving up our autonomy.

Agree that the biggest problem with corporatization is the loss of autonomy, loss of control over schedules, how much you work, being able to say no to something that isn’t right for the group or patients, etc.

 

[thatsrad]

It is definitely a buy-in but I don't think it's unreasonable that partners should reap some reward for their work. The partners are the ones who have built the practice (building good relationships with referrers, expanded imaging modalities, etc.).

I don’t think a buy is at all unreasonable either, wasn’t suggesting that it was. Just something to be aware of.

In fact, it’s probably ideal to have a buy in period to make sure someone is right for the group before becoming full partner and so they have some skin in the game.

It’s better for everyone involved to simply offer less pay during the “buy in” time to partnership rather than requiring a lump sum of cash. Especially for tax implications.

 

[CharlieBillings]

.

 

[Neopolymath]

Do radiologists actually take the vacation time they are offered? 12 weeks a year is 3 solid months off. Are they actually gone for weeks at a time or even months at a time?

Or is the vacation time a way of earning bonus salary that converts into $ when you leave/retire/max-out (or do people work and take vacation pay at the same time for effectively double pay)?

They definitely took all the vacation at the places I have worked.

 

[Splenda88]

Do people really get 10 12 wks vacation?

 

[Norick13]

Do people really get 10 12 wks vacation?

Yes - but from attgs I’ve spoken to who worked at places with 12+ wks off (he had 16!!), after 8-10 wks ppl start using that time so they worked 3-4 day a weeks. Which is almost better in my opinion, after 8wks I’m all set spending my time to only work 4 days a week.

 

[Radology]

Don’t forget, radiologists often work a weekend a month plus holidays

25 days of call a year basically counters five 5 day weeks of vacation.

And it’s not rounding for 2 hours and going home; it’s the most mentally exhausting shift in medicine. Every bit of vacation is absolutely necessary to stave off burnout

 

[Splenda88]

Don’t forget, radiologists often work a weekend a month plus holidays

25 days of call a year basically counters five 5 day weeks of vacation.

And it’s not rounding for 2 hours and going home; it’s the most mentally exhausting shift in medicine. Every bit of vacation is absolutely necessary to stave off burnout

Most specialties don't have that kind of 'privilege' and one can argue they work hard as well. For instance, 6 wks vacation in IM is unheard of.

 

[Radology]

7 on 7 off is extremely common for internal medicine/hospitalists.
That’s 16 weeks of vacation adjusting for weekends

plenty of outpatient specialties from IM operate on 4 day work weeks (~10 week vacation equivalent), don’t take call, AND have 4-6 weeks vacation

 

[9blade]

I think radiology is flying under the radar. I don't know why people always say dermatology is the best, but personally, lifestyle wise, radiology seems to be the best. What other job can you have with 16 weeks of vacation and still make 400k? Obviuosly you have to be interested in the field, otherwise you'll be miserable.

 

[Mh0311]

^ That's what I've been thinking, it seems like only 1 other person that I know of in my class want to do rads also. Glad I made the switch now rather than later.

 

[odyssey2]

I think radiology is flying under the radar. I don't know why people always say dermatology is the best, but personally, lifestyle wise, radiology seems to be the best. What other job can you have with 16 weeks of vacation and still make 400k? Obviuosly you have to be interested in the field, otherwise you'll be miserable.

I'd love for an actual radiologist to correct me, but apparently it's considered a downgrade from the ultra-lifestyle specialties like derm since it's more fast paced and high-acuity. Mistakes can be prosecuted at any time since it's recorded for everyone to see so malpractice isn't ever far from your mind. Overnight and evening call all is still a reality for attendings and can be brutal. You also have to be mentally "on" all day in a way that seems unmatched in medicine.

 

[Rad2013]

Chest/Body. But, I’d recommend Neuro if night radiology interests you. That is the most desirable fellowship for nights.

 

[efle]

Just to reiterate something similar to the above poster, because it's been stumping me...

Why isn't rads more competitive? Surely there are hundreds or thousands of competitive students, with all options on the table, who would rather deal with 1 weekend call per month than deal with all the inpatient BS or $kin pathologies.

Seeing the salary data on SDN and in MGMA, work and vacation hours, and "pure medicine" appeal, I really can't reconcile with the fact that a step score of 220 gives you a 95% match success rate.

Can anybody shed some light?

 

[libertyyne]

Just to reiterate something similar to the above poster, because it's been stumping me...

Why isn't rads more competitive? Surely there are hundreds or thousands of competitive students, with all options on the table, who would rather deal with 1 weekend call per month than deal with all the inpatient BS or $kin pathologies.

Seeing the salary data on SDN and in MGMA, work and vacation hours, and "pure medicine" appeal, I really can't reconcile with the fact that a step score of 220 gives you a 95% match success rate.

Can anybody shed some light?

Im assuming its the recent job market before the uptick and AI fears.

 

[thatsrad]

The majority of people who went in to medicine did so because they want to take care of patients directly. Radiology isn’t really the best fit for those people, assuming they hold to that feeling until residency application time.

I think a lot of interns/residents get disillusioned with clinical medicine but it’s too late. Unfortunately the set up makes med students choose after a mere 1 year of exposure to semi-real medicine, and most schools don’t have a required radiology rotation 3rd year. Not that doing a radiology rotation, which is fall-asleep shoot-me boring, is anything like actually being a radiologist, but at least someone can get an idea what we do.

 

[Radology]

as a radiologist, you will be more or less a nobody. Doctors won’t really respect you, patients won’t know you will exist, personal acquaintances will think you are a technologist.

That alone will self select out 90% of med students

 

[libertyyne]

Just to reiterate something similar to the above poster, because it's been stumping me...

Why isn't rads more competitive? Surely there are hundreds or thousands of competitive students, with all options on the table, who would rather deal with 1 weekend call per month than deal with all the inpatient BS or $kin pathologies.

Seeing the salary data on SDN and in MGMA, work and vacation hours, and "pure medicine" appeal, I really can't reconcile with the fact that a step score of 220 gives you a 95% match success rate.

Can anybody shed some light?

here is the 2006 charting outcomes graph

 

[Gurby]

Just to reiterate something similar to the above poster, because it's been stumping me...

Why isn't rads more competitive? Surely there are hundreds or thousands of competitive students, with all options on the table, who would rather deal with 1 weekend call per month than deal with all the inpatient BS or $kin pathologies.

Seeing the salary data on SDN and in MGMA, work and vacation hours, and "pure medicine" appeal, I really can't reconcile with the fact that a step score of 220 gives you a 95% match success rate.

Can anybody shed some light?

It seems like I'm met with discouragement any time I've mentioned an interest in DR. Every social gathering where this gets brought up turns into a debate where 10 people are telling me that AI is going to wipe out the specialty in 5 years, and me lacking the ability to really shoot that argument down. Everyone from med students to residents to attendings to non-medical people is completely sure that the AIpocalypse is imminent.

My interest in other specialties has been very easy to cultivate and always met with encouragement throughout medical school, whereas for radiology I feel like I'm always defending why I might go into it - both to other people and to myself.

Nobody questions you if you say you're interested in IM or surgery or derm or whatever. Obviously this is a bad reason to not do DR, but it does kind of raise the activation energy so to speak...

 

[colbgw02]

Hey Guys,

I have seen a few posts with varying information about how current radiologists describe their life. I understand that it depends on which hospital, area and sub-specialty you are in but I thought i'd collect some information for M3s like myself who are looking to go into radiology. I have not yet done my radiology elective, will do in a couple months. Also this is something I am truly interested in so please spare me the "if you love it then none of these questions should matter."

1. Where do you work (hospital or private practice, and which state)
2. How quickly do you have to read scans? Are you pressured to read faster or is it relatively at your own pace?
3. What are your hours, what is call like for you and do you work weekends.
4. How many weeks of vacation do you get per year?
5. what do you think, given that you are in the field, will be the future of radiology? Will demand increase? Will reimbursements drop?
6. What is your salary?
7. Are you happy?

I appreciate your honest responses. Thank you

1. Small, hospital-based private practice in the southeast.

2. There's no mandated time period, but we put a lot of pressure on ourselves to turn around STAT exams within 30 minutes. It's almost always much faster than that. Overall, I feel pressure to read quickly, but that's mostly an internal pressure. It seems like a lot of people don't understand that, in radiology, the faucet is always on, and there is no cap on the amount of work that one might have to do. Even technologists don't seem to get this, because they only have to deal with one issue/one patient at a time. If the internist has to go to the treatment room because his 1 o'clock showed up in extremis from an asthma exacerbation, then the 1:30 patient just has to wait. If I have to to go to the scanner because the last patient has hives following IV contrast, that doesn't stop the other scanners and all the other modalities from multiple locations from sending me work to do. I might have the list clean right now, but I can get up to take a leak and come back to 10 new CTs to read if more than one patient gets pan scanned at different places. The result is that I feel compelled to always stay on top of the work, because I never know when the other shoe will drop.

3/4. Everything is 1:4. Weekends, Christmases, evenings, vacation, etc. Our shifts are designed with maximum efficiency in mind, meaning they're relatively short with little to no overlap with the person you're replacing or being replaced by. That makes for nice hours on a day-to-day basis, but it also means that there's no down time while at work. It's more of a sprint than a marathon, but it gets me home sooner, which I prefer.

5. Reliance on medical imaging isn't going anywhere. Others are more knowledgeable about AI, but I sleep well at night knowing the importance of the role that I play in the delivery of modern healthcare. Overall, I don't think that radiology will necessarily get singled out for cuts the way is has been in the past, but I'm skeptical that our current fee for service model will last much longer. Make hay while the sun shines.

6. Average for private practice in my area. Sorry, but don't want to share specifics.

7. Yes. I have a good job, and I'm fortunate that I "found" radiology, because I can't imagine being another type of physician or what I'd do if I weren't in medicine. But, it's still a job, and that means I'm always happy when I get in my car to come home. I get that, publicly, I'm largely defined by my profession, but I'm getting better about applying the "work to live" approach to life, rather than the opposite. Most radiologists I know understand that implicitly, and I'm glad that I found a practice whose work/life balance aligns with my own. There are lots of types of jobs out there; chances are you can find one that fits you.

 

[Radology]

It seems like I'm met with discouragement any time I've mentioned an interest in DR. Every social gathering where this gets brought up turns into a debate where 10 people are telling me that AI is going to wipe out the specialty in 5 years, and me lacking the ability to really shoot that argument down. Everyone from med students to residents to attendings to non-medical people is completely sure that the AIpocalypse is imminent.

My interest in other specialties has been very easy to cultivate and always met with encouragement throughout medical school, whereas for radiology I feel like I'm always defending why I might go into it - both to other people and to myself.

Nobody questions you if you say you're interested in IM or surgery or derm or whatever. Obviously this is a bad reason to not do DR, but it does kind of raise the activation energy so to speak...

Imagine not going into radiology because a colleague medical student’s predictions on AI...

 

[efle]

Imagine not going into radiology because a colleague medical student’s predictions on AI...

I dunno man, the other reasons presented like not being prestigious enough or not having enough exposure in MS3 are weak too. It's not like laypersons or other docs think highly of Derm as a field. Essentially none of the competitive niche surgical specialties are part of people's core rotations. I may just be a cynic, but I also don't think there's a shortage of students who would love to say goodbye forever to inpatient care.

Feels like there's still some reason I'm missing for people not to go into rads.

 

[Radology]

Never underestimate the ego of the medical community.

a hyper competitive group used to flaunting their success to their colleagues. From distinguishing awards/honors, grades, test scores.

hard for many to choose a field that is nearly unanimously disrespected. You can say you don’t care, but everyone cares a little bit. Plenty care enough to not even consider radiology as an option.

 

[stcl]

I dunno man, the other reasons presented like not being prestigious enough or not having enough exposure in MS3 are weak too. It's not like laypersons or other docs think highly of Derm as a field. Essentially none of the competitive niche surgical specialties are part of people's core rotations. I may just be a cynic, but I also don't think there's a shortage of students who would love to say goodbye forever to inpatient care.

Feels like there's still some reason I'm missing for people not to go into rads.

I dunno, I feel like radiology was pretty reasonably respected among students at my med school. Sure, it's not neurosurgery, but most med students felt that radiology was a competitive specialty. All that being said, doing something for the prestige of it is a TERRIBLE reason to choose a career! You have to live with your choice every day, and ultimately, who cares what your classmates from med school think? The majority you'll probably never see again.

I think reasons people don't go into radiology are
- lack of exposure (probably #1 reason)
- not understanding day to day work: It's boring to watch a radiologist interpret studies as a med student, like watching someone play video games
- wanting more direct patient care
- concern over AI
- false impression that the job market is still bad or "outsourcing"
- concern that it's too competitive to match (avg Step 1 is around 241)

That last point is probably the #2 reason. I talked with several people who wanted to do radiology but felt that their scores and grades weren't competitive enough. Among non-surgical specialties, the highest average Step 1 scores for 2018 US MDs were Derm, DR, IR, and Rad Onc. Very few of your classmates want to admit "Yeah rads is cool, but I didn't score high enough on Step, so I'm doing FM or IM [or insert other specialty here]." The people you talk with in med school might not be as forthcoming as you think.

I'll say it again, I'm SOOO happy I'm going into radiology. All fields of medicine have their problems, including radiology, but find the one you really like and it should turn out ok.

 

[efle]

I dunno, I feel like radiology was pretty reasonably respected among students at my med school. Sure, it's not neurosurgery, but most med students felt that radiology was a competitive specialty. All that being said, doing something for the prestige of it is a TERRIBLE reason to choose a career! You have to live with your choice every day, and ultimately, who cares what your classmates from med school think? The majority you'll probably never see again.

I think reasons people don't go into radiology are
- lack of exposure (probably #1 reason)
- not understanding day to day work: It's boring to watch a radiologist interpret studies as a med student, like watching someone play video games
- wanting more direct patient care
- concern over AI
- false impression that the job market is still bad or "outsourcing"
- concern that it's too competitive to match (avg Step 1 is around 241)

That last point is probably the #2 reason. I talked with several people who wanted to do radiology but felt that their scores and grades weren't competitive enough. Among non-surgical specialties, the highest average Step 1 scores for 2018 US MDs were Derm, DR, IR, and Rad Onc. Very few of your classmates want to admit "Yeah rads is cool, but I didn't score high enough on Step, so I'm doing FM or IM [or insert other specialty here]." The people you talk with in med school might not be as forthcoming as you think.

I'll say it again, I'm SOOO happy I'm going into radiology. All fields of medicine have their problems, including radiology, but find the one you really like and it should turn out ok.

It's pretty fascinating that the average DR scores are so high (and the mode is actually 250+) when it's got such generous match rates at the low end. As opposed to the small fields where scores are elevated by competitive pressure, it seems like DR just attracts people who really enjoyed doing all that preclinical studying.

Good point about being hard to imagine yourself doing rads until you get there, though. I loved reviewing imaging on my medicine rounds but watching other people review it for 8 hours/day is probably just as bad as sitting through 40 patients in ophtho and derm clinics.