Rads vs Ortho

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3rd year DO student not sure to go for radiology or ortho? Haven't done an elective in either and will only do an ortho elective during my last month of 3rd year and a radiology elective also next spring. Supposedly should set up my 4th year electives starting in January.. Hated General Surg. But love musculoskeletal exam. Any tips if it's just between these 2 specialties. Thank you

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Ortho and radiology to me are pretty much polar opposites, unless one specialized in MSK and worked directly with ortho for a professional sports team or something. I suspect once you do an elective in each of them it would be an easy decision or you would go another direction all together. Why did you hate general surgery? If the surgical or OR aspect of it was not appealing to you than obviously ortho prob isn't the best choice. Why are you attracted to rads? Do you want to work 90+ hours a week or 60? Do you want to stand in an OR or sit in a dark room most of the time? Do you want to do 80-90% surgery and 10-20% clinic, or a varying amount of diagnostic reads + procedures?

3rd year DO student not sure to go for radiology or ortho? Haven't done an elective in either and will only do an ortho elective during my last month of 3rd year and a radiology elective also next spring. Supposedly should set up my 4th year electives starting in January.. Hated General Surg. But love musculoskeletal exam. Any tips if it's just between these 2 specialties. Thank you
 
Came in to med school interested in Ortho but am currently applying to Rads. It was a very easy decision about 2 weeks into my surgery rotation, where I found out the idea of surgery was a lot cooler than the reality. I found myself volunteering for clinic over going to the OR. The personalities of Ortho really turned me off as well. Shadow/rotate through both and it'll be apparent what you want fits better to you.
 
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3rd year DO student not sure to go for radiology or ortho? Haven't done an elective in either and will only do an ortho elective during my last month of 3rd year and a radiology elective also next spring. Supposedly should set up my 4th year electives starting in January.. Hated General Surg. But love musculoskeletal exam. Any tips if it's just between these 2 specialties. Thank you

Consider PM&R.
 
BTW I am a do. And I just read an email that says that do residencies will no longer qualify for acgme fellowships. And one of the attractions of ortho for me was that you could easily do acgme fellowships or even international fellowship. I would apply for acgme radiology but for ortho I don't have the soft factors to get into acgme residency.
 
Consider PM&R.

No. I actually did a rotation in it and liked it. But you need to be quite a businessman if you don't want to end up in a nursing home. Anyway I just want to compare rad and ortho
 
Ortho and radiology to me are pretty much polar opposites, unless one specialized in MSK and worked directly with ortho for a professional sports team or something. I suspect once you do an elective in each of them it would be an easy decision or you would go another direction all together. Why did you hate general surgery? If the surgical or OR aspect of it was not appealing to you than obviously ortho prob isn't the best choice. Why are you attracted to rads? Do you want to work 90+ hours a week or 60? Do you want to stand in an OR or sit in a dark room most of the time? Do you want to do 80-90% surgery and 10-20% clinic, or a varying amount of diagnostic reads + procedures?
I know they are different that's why I am so concerned that at this point they are my top choices. I do wonder if mask radiologists can see pts and do mask exam without necessarily being elite, just as part of comprehensive sports group? Or do something else unconventional? I know that both or tho and PMR sometimes schedule a visit just to interpret radiology reports to the pts. so I am sure rad could also do this even over the internet.
I hated GS because it was mostly suturing and controlling the bleeding. Which is both difficult and not exciting. And at the same time I got to do very little. I can do much more direct work for the patient in rotations such as im or PMR in under 40 hours. And I did find surgery clinic more interesting because I was more involved. But yes I am not a fan of working over 40 hours. But I could sacrifice 5 years if it meant being an expert and having your own practice afterwards.
One of the things that would draw me to radiology is if I could do teleradiology from a foreign country. But that seems unlikely.
Sorry it is difficult to see what I am typing from my phone
 
Came in to med school interested in Ortho but am currently applying to Rads. It was a very easy decision about 2 weeks into my surgery rotation, where I found out the idea of surgery was a lot cooler than the reality. I found myself volunteering for clinic over going to the OR. The personalities of Ortho really turned me off as well. Shadow/rotate through both and it'll be apparent what you want fits better to you.
But you know even in GS they have nice procedures like lipoma removal and then those nasty ileostomies. I bet carpal tunnel release is much more pleasant than most types of work. And its big $$ for something that is so easy for them. They definitely do not have to worry about time or bleeding like those trauma surgeons.
 
But you know even in GS they have nice procedures like lipoma removal and then those nasty ileostomies. I bet carpal tunnel release is much more pleasant than most types of work. And its big $$ for something that is so easy for them. They definitely do not have to worry about time or bleeding like those trauma surgeons.
I actually was on most subspecialties on my surgery rotation, including Ortho. I liked the 2 weeks of Ortho the most, but even then I could clearly see I did not enjoy it as much as the residents/attendings/students gunning for Ortho. There are some personalities that require a certain amount of intensity/physicality in their day to day work to not be bored. I'd be perfectly content sitting behind a computer, diagnosing all day.
 
I am MSK trained radiologist and work closely with orthopods. They have one of the better gigs in medicine since they are less involved with patients, unless they do spine. They don't do heavy inpatient work. The procedure complications are manageable and the hours are good unless you do trauma. A lot of pre and post procedure care can be turfed to other groups. The pay is good. Overall, a good field.

I choose radiology over ortho any minute. Radiology has worked really well for me. It may not work well for some. I work about 65-68 hours a week which is above many radiologists. My preference was working 50 hours and making 20 percent less, but not under my control. I really like the diversity of what I do. Reading MSK MRI, doing spine procedures including kypho, having half a day a week a pain clinic, doing body biopsies, reading a diversity of exams like MRCP, Brain and spine MRI, thyroid US, CTA brain, putting a drain in liver abscess and reading CXR.

Diversity of the field, limited patient contact, cutting edge technology and having most of the hospital under your radar when you are on call are some of the great advantages. The hours are OK for me. Though I feel overworked and exhausted many days at the end of the day, overall it works really really good. I like most of what I do. Obviously, there are things that I dislike or even hate about it, but these are very very small compared to the whole picture. I think I can do it for the next 40 years. If someone payed me to stay at home, I would not come to work. Otherwise, I choose it over any other job any day of the week.
 
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I was previously interested in Ortho as well. The best comment I heard about picking a specialty was, "Imagine every doctor works 55 hours a week and makes 200,000 dollars regardless of specialty. What would you pick?"

Of course this is an oversimplification, but it makes a good point. If you're doing what you like because you truly enjoy the work, then those 5, 10, or 15 extra hours a week you have to work some weeks aren't nearly as painful.

By the way, I hope you don't let the radiology elective completely guide you. Imagine yourself doing the work. Radiology is NOT a spectator sport, and it can seem very boring if you're not actively doing a little reading in your spare time while on the rotation so that you know what the hell they're talking about. Best of luck in the decision!
 
What are your thoughts on radiologists having a private practice? Do msk radiology fellows get experience in nonoperative sports medicine (i.e. physical exam and injections), or it's all about imaging?
How about a general radiologist having an internet-based practice where he would give 2nd opinion to people based purely on their images? Is that sustainable or they wouldn't pay enough to justify time spent interpreting and explaining those images? Could a radiologist also bill insurance for a regular patient visit if he talks to a patient/examines him just like a Primary care or PMR doctor? I ask this because I know that many doctors have "patient visits" where they basically read the radiology reports and "explain" it to the patient pretending like they are the ones making those imaging diagnoses. Yet the patient also gets a bill from an imaging center/radiologist who probably spent little time to arrive at his diagnosis. But if I were a patient myself I probably wouldn't pay for a 2nd radiology opinion, because I doubt it would make any clinical difference. I don't see how a radiologist can distinguish himself from other radiologists the way a surgeon can distinguish, get a reputation..
 
What about sports med?
I am afraid they are not specialist enough. From what I've seen most of their patients have nothing to do with sports. Ortho can actually treat injuries. And rads can diagnose.
 
What are your thoughts on radiologists having a private practice? Do msk radiology fellows get experience in nonoperative sports medicine (i.e. physical exam and injections), or it's all about imaging?
How about a general radiologist having an internet-based practice where he would give 2nd opinion to people based purely on their images? Is that sustainable or they wouldn't pay enough to justify time spent interpreting and explaining those images? Could a radiologist also bill insurance for a regular patient visit if he talks to a patient/examines him just like a Primary care or PMR doctor? I ask this because I know that many doctors have "patient visits" where they basically read the radiology reports and "explain" it to the patient pretending like they are the ones making those imaging diagnoses. Yet the patient also gets a bill from an imaging center/radiologist who probably spent little time to arrive at his diagnosis. But if I were a patient myself I probably wouldn't pay for a 2nd radiology opinion, because I doubt it would make any clinical difference. I don't see how a radiologist can distinguish himself from other radiologists the way a surgeon can distinguish, get a reputation..

The way you are choosing your specialty your chance of being happy at the end is about 1%.

If you don't like radiology or it doesn't fit your "Ambitions", don't do it. period.
 
But you know even in GS they have nice procedures like lipoma removal and then those nasty ileostomies. I bet carpal tunnel release is much more pleasant than most types of work. And its big $$ for something that is so easy for them. They definitely do not have to worry about time or bleeding like those trauma surgeons.

Between Rads and Ortho, I think you should do Ortho. It sounds like you're trying to make Rads into something it is not (i.e. non-op sports med), which will doom you to being unhappy, as it is highly unlikely you'll be able to find or create a job such as you describe in this thread.

However, based on the post I quoted here, it really sounds like you hated surgery. A lipoma removal is not a "nice surgery" to most surgeons I know. Most surgeons would gladly take a loop ileostomy any day. So, too, would the orthopods I know take a pelvic trauma case over a carpal tunnel release. Surgeons are in the field because they love operating.

So...even though you say you only want to compare Rads and Ortho...I think you should try Family Med/Sports Med. Unlike what yesorno said above, it is pretty common for sports teams (high school and college, at least) to have non-op sports docs as their team physicians, though they'll likely have a team orthopod as well.
 
What are your thoughts on radiologists having a private practice?

It's the traditional practice model, although becoming less common.

Do msk radiology fellows get experience in nonoperative sports medicine (i.e. physical exam and injections), or it's all about imaging?

Injections? Yes. Ortho physical exam? No. Some fellowships are more procedural than others, so it's conceivable you could have a "clinic" filled with biopsies (uncommon), pain procedures, etc.

How about a general radiologist having an internet-based practice where he would give 2nd opinion to people based purely on their images? Is that sustainable or they wouldn't pay enough to justify time spent interpreting and explaining those images?

No one would pay a general radiologist for a second opinion. They might pay a subspecialist. Such groups exist, but they're often thinly veiled efforts at drumming up business for plaintiff attorneys. Some of these companies are even co-located with lawyer offices. Regardless, it's an odious way to make a living, in my opinion.

Could a radiologist also bill insurance for a regular patient visit if he talks to a patient/examines him just like a Primary care or PMR doctor? I ask this because I know that many doctors have "patient visits" where they basically read the radiology reports and "explain" it to the patient pretending like they are the ones making those imaging diagnoses.

Yeah. Don't hold your breath. You won't get paid for speaking with patients. Even it were formalized, insurance companies won't reimburse a radiologist for that activity. Some radiologists would like to be able to bill for "non-RVU-producing" tasks, like speaking with providers, tumor board, etc. It's a fine idea, but in the setting declining reimbursements, it's unlikely to happen.

Yet the patient also gets a bill from an imaging center/radiologist who probably spent little time to arrive at his diagnosis.

Oh really?

But if I were a patient myself I probably wouldn't pay for a 2nd radiology opinion, because I doubt it would make any clinical difference.

If you were just a patient, then you probably wouldn't even know what a radiologist is, much less who read your study or be able to understand the report sufficiently to judge its accuracy or relevance.

I don't see how a radiologist can distinguish himself from other radiologists the way a surgeon can distinguish, get a reputation..

That's because you don't really know much about radiology. Radiologists have reputations just like everyone else, but it's not a public one, in keeping with the idea of the radiologist as a "doctor's doctor".
 
That's because you don't really know much about radiology. Radiologists have reputations just like everyone else, but it's not a public one, in keeping with the idea of the radiologist as a "doctor's doctor".

I'm only going to comment on this last point.

I've heard numerous times with residents giving a report to an attending, especially when it's an unexpected finding, "Who was the read from?" "Dr. X" "Okay. I'm not even going to call them. I know it's right."

While you might not get the same reputation in the public and from patients, I feel that a good radiologist gets enormous respect from colleagues, which is even more difficult to obtain.
 
I'm only going to comment on this last point.

I've heard numerous times with residents giving a report to an attending, especially when it's an unexpected finding, "Who was the read from?" "Dr. X" "Okay. I'm not even going to call them. I know it's right."

While you might not get the same reputation in the public and from patients, I feel that a good radiologist gets enormous respect from colleagues, which is even more difficult to obtain.

I am an MSK radiologist and very few people know me beyond my practice.

But Don Resnick is known by almost any radiologist in US, many radiologists outside US and many orthopods and rheumatologists.
 
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