Re-apply with DO acceptance? (not again!!)

[Hi_I'mPaul]

Theres also submitting my apps really late. I have to guess that played a big role too no?

Plays a role. How big? Don't really know. Personally, I didn't get interviews until December and I submitted day one with >3.6 undergrad GPA, 4.0 SMP, and >90th Percentile MCAT. Similar ECs as you too (more research though). But, I ended up with a fair amount of interviews and acceptance so I can't complain.

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[mwsapphire]

Plays a role. How big? Don't really know. Personally, I didn't get interviews until December and I submitted day one with >3.6 undergrad GPA, 4.0 SMP, and >90th Percentile MCAT. Similar ECs as you too (more research though). But, I ended up with a fair amount of interviews and acceptance so I can't complain.

Actually, off topic here.
I have EC's almost exactly like OP, except no research and about 30 ish hours of shadowing ( if I get shadowing this summer, otherwise like 12).
Are my EC's decent? I have a huge feeling they aren't.

 

[Hi_I'mPaul]

Actually, off topic here.
I have EC's almost exactly like OP, except no research and about 30 ish hours of shadowing ( if I get shadowing this summer, otherwise like 12).
Are my EC's decent? I have a huge feeling they aren't.

I think how you write about what you did is really what makes a difference (what were your takeaways/do you seem passionate about what you did). 200 hours of clinical and non-clinical are more or less just above the SDN definition of "cookie cutter" (150 hours of each). Get shadowing up to 50 hours with primary care exposure (important). Research is not required but is seen as the "icing on the cake" if you have the experience. I'd recommend getting more hours in the areas you lack so that you can update schools about your experiences throughout the application year.

 

[mwsapphire]

I think how you write about what you did is really what makes a difference (what were your takeaways/do you seem passionate about what you did). 200 hours of clinical and non-clinical are more or less just above the SDN definition of "cookie cutter" (150 hours of each). Get shadowing up to 50 hours with primary care exposure (important). Research is not required but is seen as the "icing on the cake" if you have the experience. I'd recommend getting more hours in the areas you lack so that you can update schools about your experiences throughout the application year.

In addition to pursuing shadowing this summer, I will hopefully start working as a scribe towards the end of the summer/ going into my gap year. ( I'm applying this cycle). I think that would help mitigate the lower shadowing hours, and is something that I can update schools on or can talk about during interviews. The 12 hours was a PCP.
Yeah, I'm not applying anywhere were research is a deal breaker, that's not what I'm worried about. It's more clinical/NC / shadowing that I was concerned with. My advisors have said that scrib-ing is like shadowing and work at the same time- you observe so much doctor patient interaction that it serves the purpose of shadowing.

 

[Osteosaur]

Research: 25 hours->1000+
Nonclinical: 200->500
Clinical: 200-> 500
Shadowing: 300-> over 600 (about 3 years of shadowing total)
Posters/presentations/conferences attended: 0-> many
Abstracts/manuscripts submitted: 0-> several

Well I'm glad you improved man. That is a LOT of shadowing though.

Otherwise while your ECs have improved, they are still pretty "run of the mill" premed. Its not bad. You look like a proper med school applicant! But you are still not up to snuff for MD with that GPA. I was wait-listed twice in a row with more hours in all of that, actual publications, and a better GPA and MCAT. I don't mean to discourage you. Its just that you made it. You're going to be a doctor. To throw this away is a VERY huge risk.

Don't let this idea that some work as an RA for a year means you're guaranteed to become an academic physician in your field of research. A lot of people get hung up on this.

 

[lalalaaaaaa]

Shadowing: 300-> over 600 (about 3 years of shadowing total)

I think it's worth pointing out that this is way too many shadowing hours.

Also, OP, you should take the DO acceptance. Your GPA is way too low to risk reapplying. You probably have a <50% chance of getting accepted MD and will be screened out of most programs by GPA. You're basically betting a potential career of being a doctor on a coin flip. If you didn't want to go DO, you shouldn't have applied. Be happy with the opportunity to be a doctor because it's probably your only shot.

Additionally, the inability to take criticism in this thread and your general tone doesn't show some really important qualities of being a physician including self reflection, ability to take criticism, and being humble. I'm concerned that this kind of tone may come off in a potential interview and even in your application which will sink it.

Definitely let us know if you reapply and update us in a year with how many acceptances you may or may not have. Good luck!

EDIT: back to the shadowing hours. I find myself questioning if that's a hugely inflated number. Who has the time/energy to take on a student to shadow them that much? OP you could have spent that time volunteering in the hospital. Why did you spend 300 hours of your reapp cycle shadowing when you already had 300? Genuinely interested in this.

 

[masterchiefk57]

Yes, this is very interesting....

OP, if you don’t improve your GPA or participate in an SMP, you aren’t really addressing the issue that held you back this cycle. If you are willing to go that route then this discussion changes.

However, as it is clear that you already made your decision before even posting this thread, I guess I will provide some advice that may help. I would call schools and see if you can get feedback on your app and let them tell you what went wrong. There could have been some red flags, other than GPA, that weeded you out. I highly doubt this is the case, but nonetheless. Secondly, yes, apply early. Since your stats aren’t stellar, you do need to be earlier than the competition, earlier as possible. Third, curate a realistic school list. Invest in the MSAR and realize that while your MCAT may be a good fit for some schools, your GPA is very low. There should be no reach schools on this list.

With all that said, to put yourself in the best position, take the damn DO acceptance. Yes, some schools do ask if have you been accepted into a us medical school. (Just applied this cycle as well.) And most importantly, your GPA is very low, and without any improvement, you’re unlikely to gain any traction this year as well. You’re already a reapplicant at 23 schools, and if any of them make your list again this year, applying without improving the primary issue is a sure way to get tossed out again. Then, if you apply DO again, wait until they find out that you had TWO DO acceptances just the cycle before and they aren’t going to want to touch you with a 10 foot pole.

 

[Feelgood MD]

OP I would also keep in mind the opportunity cost of foregoing a year's worth of salary later down the road. How much will reapplying really cost you? Life is short, you worked hard to get to this point, and you have an acceptance! I had the same thoughts when I was facing multiple DO acceptances and no MD acceptances. But here is the conclusion I came to:

To steer off course at this point and re-enter that period of uncertainty would be ungrateful. In fact, it would be the worst kind of ungrateful. Ungrateful to the work you yourself put in to get to this point. You have the opportunity to be a doctor! Do you want to be an MD or a doctor?

 

[Moko]

Unteachable?

Being teachable means that someone is humble, cognizant of their deficiencies in knowledge, and open to new information even if it disagrees with their preheld beliefs. For most premeds in your situation, these preheld beliefs are based on nothing but feelings. I get this is the internet, but you have not shown that you are open to learning in this thread.. and I would caution you against falling into the confirmation bias trap.

The advice that you have received here is sound, and you should not risk your chance to become a doctor.

Improving your ECs is great, but your GPA is still dragging down your application. Your chances at an MD acceptance are by no means 0 (as people do get accepted with your GPA/MCAT combination), but it's important to deal in probabilities and they are not great. I would also question the motivation and judgment behind someone who willingly throws away a DO acceptance to have another go at a MD acceptance. For what it's worth, I serve on the admissions committee of a MD school.

And to address evidence based medicine, even though everyone keeps saying EBM this and that, many things we do in medicine are in fact based more on voodoo traditions rather than actual science. As doctors, all of us are also forced to jump through unnecessary hoops -- think of OMM as just another box to check off.

Best of luck to you regardless of your decision.

 

[Hippocrates II]

I think you should drop the DO acceptance and reapply MD + carrib.

I think that's generally terrible advice, but your disdain for the DO degree (or arrogance for wanting MD, not sure) is pretty clear here. Yes, OMM is largely whack. We're also taught many 'special tests' for random joint pains and the like that are reproducible like 15% of the time that, you guessed it, are also taught in MD schools. There is a lot of BS in medicine, MD or DO, so ruling out DO on the premise of OMM is relatively superficial IMO. It's okay if you just don't want to be a DO, but you should let someone else have the spot who actually wants it. The rest of us accept OMM for what it is, learn the decent stuff and choke down the rest, and move on with our lives.

For what it's worth, I applied MD with similar stats and didn't get in. You can do all of the volunteering you want, but at the end of the day you have a mediocre GPA and nothing short of fixing *that* is likely to help you. So, if you really do want that MD, you should do an SMP or something along those lines. Take it from this guy, your best-met application is generally your first application, and every subsequent reapplication is met with more and more scrutiny.

 

[Dr. Anonymouss]

You do seem to have a piss poor attitude towards DO's. I understand the intention of wanting to go MD as it greatly affects your residency location and opportunities, but seeing that your GPA isn't even in a desirable range for MD you should be expecting DO, while hoping for MD. Everything you have said shows you haven't accepted this and that you don't want the DO. My advice: Drop the acceptance and give it to someone else who dreams of that acceptance, do an SMP and improve your GPA, then reapply for your MD schools.

 

[Walter Raleigh]

An excellent question!
1) PhD here
2) If you have mindset that about OMM/OMT, why did you apply to DO schools in the first place?
3) I always tell my students to suspend their disbelief and see if they can learn something useful.
4) There are OMM modalities that do work
5) I prefer to think of a lot of OMM as "unproven claims" rather than pseudoscience. That said, there are no such things as Chapman's points, and those cranial bones do NOT move.
6) Think of OMM/OMT as the tax you have to pay for not having an app that was competitive enough to get you into an MD school.
7) Some DO schools give mere lip service to OMM/OMT, and others are more devoted to it.
8) Every DO school has its share of True Believers, for whom Osteopathy is a belief system. We PhD faculty treat them like beloved but very eccentric relatives.

I reiterate my advice that you should drop the acceptance and re-apply. Students like you make life miserable for my DO faculty colleagues, and it's not due to a devotion to the Scientific Process and critical/skeptical thinking skills. Self-hating DOs are a real thing.


You are mostly likely to be crowded out by candidates with stronger apps.

Your advice is essentially: "If you want the MD so badly, shoot yourself in the foot, get fitted for a Blade Runner prosthetic, and see if it works as well for you as it did for Pistorius; good luck."

 

[bioarchaeologist]

If you're gonna turn down the DO acceptance, raise your GPA (~3.7) and MCAT (~515) and make sure your ECs are darn strong to give yourself the highest chance of an MD acceptance, as you MAY be burning the DO bridge with this decision.

I think this is a very risky move for you. There is no guarantee that the second app cycle will give you the results you want. Be honest with yourself. Do you think you can outperform yourself academically and ECs wise to make yourself competitive enough for MD? Your GPA,MCAT, and past academic performance are decent but not great. Raising your numbers and strengthening your app is easier said than done. You basically need to crush everything numbers wise if you're expecting different results for your MD app.

 

[Dr. Rafiki]

I've gotten into my deal on these forums before and don't want to again, but I will say this: some people choose DO acceptances over USMD acceptances (like me). Some people take OMM for what it's worth and use it to better the lives around them every day (like me).

For the love of all that is holy: do not take the acceptance. You don't want to be there. I don't want you to be there. If the adcom's who accepted you read this and knew it was you, they wouldn't want you to be there.

The Caribbean MD schools pray for a chance to prey on folks like you, please choose that route instead and leave my degree to the folks that want it.

 

[Feelgood MD]

I've gotten into my deal on these forums before and don't want to again, but I will say this: some people choose DO acceptances over USMD acceptances (like me). Some people take OMM for what it's worth and use it to better the lives around them every day (like me).

For the love of all that is holy: do not take the acceptance. You don't want to be there. I don't want you to be there. If the adcom's who accepted you read this and knew it was you, they wouldn't want you to be there.

The Caribbean MD schools pray for a chance to prey on folks like you, please choose that route instead and leave my degree to the folks that want it.

This is bad advice and is the exact opposite of what should be said.

 

[masterchiefk57]

This is bad advice and is the exact opposite of what should be said.

I really agree with that advice. OP is clearly stuck on initials versus becoming a physician.

 

[chlorocruorin]

That's a bold generalized claim for someone who hasn't applied in 72 years!
I believe most of them ask if you plan on being a student over the application cycle if I remember correctly from a few months ago.

It’s a question asked commonly

 

[Cornfed101]

I know this thread was started a while ago, but why apply to DO schools if you aren't willing to go to a DO school? Why does this question even come up??

 

[Feelgood MD]

I really agree with that advice. OP is clearly stuck on initials versus becoming a physician.

We shouldn't be complicate in letting someone throw away a great opportunity. Should show them how initials don't matter.

 

[masterchiefk57]

We shouldn't be complicate in letting someone throw away a great opportunity. Should show them how initials don't matter.

Hmmm I see your point, but I think many to most people understand the significance of the opportunity to become an MD/DO, and we didn’t have to use an online forum to come to that realization. I think it’s less about explaining to them the irrelevant differences and more about the inability or improbability of teaching OP the necessary passion (in which they clearly lack) for this life long journey. To even contemplate forgoing an acceptance due to the reason OP has stated is, in my opinion, indicative of a sever lack of commitment and appreciation that cannot be acquired through SDN.

 

[Osteosaur]

So are you at DO school now or reapplying, @AgirlfromHawaii ?

 

[CanadatoUS2019]

Not weeded out by the interview process? Clearly I was for MD, not for DO

OP, look I'm not applying to medical school (I start vet med this fall). But you have an acceptance to become a physician. You can re-apply, but you may NEVER get accepted into an MD, and you may NEVER get re-accepted into a DO program.

So it is a risk you need to analyze. Is the MD, or the ability to match easier, worth more than having a guarantee that you will become a physician? Take it from someone who applied multiple times to get into vetmed, I would NEVER turn down a school because of whatever reputation. Of course there is no DO vs MD for vetmed, but you have the opportunity to become a doctor now, and you're willing to throw that away for some notion of prestige.

Even with an MD, you are NOT guaranteed to make it into a spectacular residency. In this case you'd be a primary care physician anyway. Go DO. Look, we all like to think we're better than we are and that is important to continuing to improve one's self, but you have an opportunity here. Take it. Or don't. Someone else who is dying to get in will get in if you don't. And they may be well into their residency by the time you get into an MD program, if ever.

 

[deleted981412]

I think it's worth pointing out that this is way too many shadowing hours.

Also, OP, you should take the DO acceptance. Your GPA is way too low to risk reapplying. You probably have a <50% chance of getting accepted MD and will be screened out of most programs by GPA. You're basically betting a potential career of being a doctor on a coin flip. If you didn't want to go DO, you shouldn't have applied. Be happy with the opportunity to be a doctor because it's probably your only shot.

Additionally, the inability to take criticism in this thread and your general tone doesn't show some really important qualities of being a physician including self reflection, ability to take criticism, and being humble. I'm concerned that this kind of tone may come off in a potential interview and even in your application which will sink it.

Definitely let us know if you reapply and update us in a year with how many acceptances you may or may not have. Good luck!

EDIT: back to the shadowing hours. I find myself questioning if that's a hugely inflated number. Who has the time/energy to take on a student to shadow them that much? OP you could have spent that time volunteering in the hospital. Why did you spend 300 hours of your reapp cycle shadowing when you already had 300? Genuinely interested in this.

What schools screen out someone with a 3.3 and 3.5 GPA? This may be true for UCLA or some other top tier schools but you said "most programs". Are you an adcom? Can you support your claim with any evidence?? Please don't spread misinformation like this

 

[DrRiker]

If you don't get into derm or your competitive subspecialty of choice, would you still be a doctor? I'm not saying that the alternative is primary care, but any other less competitive specialty.

If not, then I'd recommend rescinding your applications and finding another way to make a living. Your tone in this thread suggests that your top priority is not service to your patients. If this was your top priority, then you would accept the DO offer without second thought. You seem driven by either academic interest, prestige, money, or lifestyle. Medicine is a service profession and you'll sacrifice a lot to care for your patients. Competitive specialities are never a guarantee. If you are dead set on derm (for instance), you might be in for an unpleasant awakening a few years down the road.

 

[olabrador23]

And med schools do ask if "Have you been accepted elsewhere?"

That's a bold generalized claim for someone who hasn't applied in 72 years!
I believe most of them ask if you plan on being a student over the application cycle if I remember correctly from a few months ago.

You mean Goro is 70's+???

 

[mwsapphire]

You mean Goro is 70's+???

Actually...imagining Goro as a cute old man is even more pleasant to me.

 

[opobs]

If you really want MD, I would say you need to bring up that GPA to 3.8+ through an SMP and possibly retake the mcat and score 95%+, but I'm not sure even that would help. It's a big risk though, since reapplicants are already at a slight disadvantage and I'm pretty sure med schools do ask if you've every been accepted to med school before, so.... it's your call.

 

[Goro]

Actually...imagining Goro as a cute old man is even more pleasant to me.

Angry old fart is more like it.

 

[LeaveNoTrace]

You are not a superstar that has a shot of being able to shoot their foot clean off and still do well in the state championships. You are an average, maybe slightly above average, applicant for DO schools and a weak applicant for MD schools. Now you're talking about turning down a DO acceptance to have MD after your name. This is foolish and a massive roll of the dice; there is a better than even chance that you will never become a doctor if you do this.

Sorry, but you simply do not have the grades, test scores, and ECs to be successful doing this and if you did you would not be asking this question.

 

[Sephirakra]

You are not a superstar that has a shot of being able to shoot their foot clean off and still do well in the state championships. You are an average, maybe slightly above average, applicant for DO schools and a weak applicant for MD schools. Now you're talking about turning down a DO acceptance to have MD after your name. This is foolish and a massive roll of the dice; there is a better than even chance that you will never become a doctor if you do this.

Sorry, but you simply do not have the grades, test scores, and ECs to be successful doing this and if you did you would not be asking this question.

OP hasn't been seen since June 2019. I don't think they're going to see this admonition.