Reading the Pre-Allopathic forum makes me feel old

[Caprica6]

And I'm not even that old, but I did graduate over five years ago (luckily I took my pre-reqs back then). I have been working full time since. Reading some of the posts on the pre-allopathic forum makes me laugh at what some of these kids are concerned about! What will I do with my year off? Will employment strengthen my application? OMG! I got a B+!

I know there has been debate on here before on whether or not non-trads are better applicants. But come on! Seriously? I definitely think there is a difference in maturity level. Life happens once you graduate university. Its called employment, responsibility, bills, and everything that happens on top of that.

I'm actually struggling with some of these secondaries that ask about diversity or experiences or struggles because there is too much to choose from.

Ahhh, naive pre-meds.

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[schrizto]

Reading this thread makes me feel young.

 

[agirl]

deleted.

 

[sindadel]

I think this feeling of (slightly) smug superiority is a trap we can fall into as non-trads. I'm trying to hang onto my eye-rolling 16 year old self who felt every bit as grown up as I do today. But I've definitely felt the way you do, don't get me wrong.

I'm trying to wait to see how the chips fall in my class with respect to whether non-trads or trads are better prepared for med school. So far, no data.

 

[QofQuimica]

I think this feeling of (slightly) smug superiority is a trap we can fall into as non-trads.

Agree. And it's a bad trap to fall into. There are some trad applicants and med students whose accomplishments would shame many nontrads.

Besides, OP, you are too young to be smug. Reading your post makes *me* feel old, considering that I'm well beyond being five years out of college.

I'm trying to wait to see how the chips fall in my class with respect to whether non-trads or trads are better prepared for med school. So far, no data.

Oh, definitely trads (on average). If we nontrads were as good of students as they are, most of us wouldn't be nontrads.

 

[selfhealer]

And I'm not even that old, but I did graduate over five years ago (luckily I took my pre-reqs back then). I have been working full time since. Reading some of the posts on the pre-allopathic forum makes me laugh at what some of these kids are concerned about! What will I do with my year off? Will employment strengthen my application? OMG! I got a B+!

I know there has been debate on here before on whether or not non-trads are better applicants. But come on! Seriously? I definitely think there is a difference in maturity level. Life happens once you graduate university. Its called employment, responsibility, bills, and everything that happens on top of that.

I'm actually struggling with some of these secondaries that ask about diversity or experiences or struggles because there is too much to choose from.

Ahhh, naive pre-meds.

Great....if YOU feel old, how the hell am I supposed to feel??
If it makes you feel better (and younger) Im 30 years old, graduated back in 2001 with a non-science degree, and did not have ONE pre-requisite taken care of before I begun this process. Furthermore, I JUST begun taking my pre-reqs this summer, and thus only have Bio I and II under by belt......SO STOP YER COMPLAININ' heheh.

As for your other comment regarding whether older guys like us are stronger applicants/more mature...I answer emphatically...YES!!!

Apologies to the younger squirts out there, and there are certainly standouts and brilliant applicants amongst you, but speaking in generalities; if I were a med school, Id much prefer the older applicant (all other things being equal of course).

There are a whole host of reasons I feel this way. First off, when someone who has been out of school for years, worked in other fields, started a life/family, ends up sitting in front of an Adcom, Id argue that there can be NO question about his dedication and commitment to becoming a doctor. For him to have made the terrifying decision to stop what he is doing, start from scratch, and dedicate himself to a goal that will take the better part of a decade to realize, there can be no question about his passion and devotion.
I am by no means arguing that this level of devotion is not found in younger applicants, however I strongly feel that when a 21 year old, fresh out of college, finds himself sitting at an interview in front of an Adcom, there can be many reasons he is there, not all of which pertain to his own personal dedication and passion for medicine. Someone this age may have found himself in this position because of expectations from his parents, a preference for remaining in school as opposed to getting a job, and countless other reasons which dont speak to his personal commitment to medicine. Again, please dont misunderstand me-I know that many (perhaps most) of younger applicants are there for the right reasons. However, I still maintain that for the older applicant, they are almost CERTAINLY there for only one reason....and its the right reason.

As for maturity, I think the older applicant probably has a leg up at the interview (again....generally speaking). I know that I can express myself better, and more confidently now, then I could at 21. Im less likely to be intimidated by the prospect of "selling myself" to an Adcom, then I was at 21.

In any case, I admit that I am inherently biased (due to my being older), but I nonetheless, maintain my conviction that all other things being equal, I would be more apt to accept the older applicant if I were an Adcom. However, this preference for older applicants would only hold to a certain point. OK...let the flaming begin.

One last note-Once an applicant reaches a certain age, I feel that an Adcom should consider the number of years this older applicant would be practicing medicine when compared to a 21 year old. It wouldnt make much sense for a school to make the investment of training someone who will only practive for ten years.-SH

 

[FireFist]

Oh yeah, they sometimes make me feel old. By now I am getting used to it though. A year ago I finished the Fire Academy at 30. There were three guys older than me. The rest were all 22-26 y/o. When you are running your third mile, then you feel old! Still, I have to admit I was impressed with how mature some of these young bucks were. Some of them were more mature than one of the older guys.

Q makes a good point about being smug and arrogant though. I know I have a lot to learn about medicine. I just need to impart that humbleness to the Adcoms, teachers, and fellow students. I don't want to get shot down for acting like a know it all.

 

[njbmd]

With rare exceptions, those "young" traditional medical students are going to outperform the non-traditional medical students by far. In then end, while you may have loads of "worldly" experience, that only goes so far. You have to get the work done and get it done well. Everyone, regardless of age, has to figure out how to do this and nontraditional medical students tend to struggle with just getting the job done.

You can have a good laugh at a younger student's angst over grades, pimples etc. but they are likely to "smoke" you when it comes to performance in medical school and residency. In the end, you hope it all evens out but they are likely to have the last laugh at your expense.

 

[tkim]

Ahhh, naive pre-meds.

Ahhh, naive non-trads.

 

[selfhealer]

With rare exceptions, those "young" traditional medical students are going to outperform the non-traditional medical students by far. In then end, while you may have loads of "worldly" experience, that only goes so far. You have to get the work done and get it done well. Everyone, regardless of age, has to figure out how to do this and nontraditional medical students tend to struggle with just getting the job done.

You can have a good laugh at a younger student's angst over grades, pimples etc. but they are likely to "smoke" you when it comes to performance in medical school and residency. In the end, you hope it all evens out but they are likely to have the last laugh at your expense.

What are you basing this on??? Why are you so certain that younger, "traditional" students will "smoke" the non-trads when it comes to performance in med school and residency?? You make this bold claim, but aren't offering any reasons whatsoever as to why you are so certain of this.

Several posts up, I make the exact OPPOSITE claim-namely that I feel older students IN GENERAL (not always) have certain advantages that could very well help them "outcompete" the younger crowd. While I certainly may be wrong about this assumption, I do offer several reasons why I feel this way. Id like to hear your reasoning that has you so assured of your position. -SH

 

[Doctor Bagel]

I don't think there's really a correlation between age and performance, but I don't have a big source of data to look at. I think as mentioned above, some nontrads come in with a history of weaker academics, which is maybe why they're nontrads, but not all nontrads fit that mold. In my class, we started out with 5 students 30 or older, including me. 2 wound up repeating years, one had some academic difficulty, and the other two have done really well. The two who did well (both of us sdn posters) came in with scores as good or better than the average trad students, so it's not really surprising.

Success in medical school (especially boards and the first 2 years) is about being able to study well and being a good test taker. If you're good at those things, you'll likely do well whether you're a trad or a non-trad. If you have a history of below average academic performance, being a nontrad isn't going to make up for that.

 

[2008orbust]

I went golfing with one of my classmates last week.

The clerk asked if I was paying for my son too.

 

[mommy2three]

five years out....oh my you are a youngun'


and may i say...way to make the fastly approaching 35 yr old feel REALLY old!!!!

 

[Isoprop]

I think this feeling of (slightly) smug superiority is a trap we can fall into as non-trads. I'm trying to hang onto my eye-rolling 16 year old self who felt every bit as grown up as I do today. But I've definitely felt the way you do, don't get me wrong.

Yeah, forget other premeds. I remember feeling this way towards the people TEACHING who were younger than me.

 

[EdLongshanks]

Yeah, forget other premeds. I remember feeling this way towards the people TEACHING who were younger than me.

I'll take Dr NJB's word for it, but it's hard to imagine the current crop of student's beating anybody. Last night one of my classmates (who is the age of my son) told me that he aced A's in getting an engineering degree and then switched to pre-med. I was appropriately awed. I'm a very good student and even I made a "B" in one engineering Physics course.

But after talking to this kid a few more minutes, I wondered how he even got accepted into college. He barely escaped a C in genetics and struggled in organic chemistry to get a B. Come on.

I have 20 years in between my first college years and now. I'm not sure if it is the result of going from a private university to a public one, but the classes are not even half as rigorous. In the 80's they wouldn't even have considered "dropping one test and averaging the others". One class even had a possibility of 13% overall EXTRA CREDIT.

I woud say how astonished I am but words fail me ( and that is really rare ).

 

[WaterBird]

And I'm not even that old, but I did graduate over five years ago (luckily I took my pre-reqs back then). I have been working full time since. Reading some of the posts on the pre-allopathic forum makes me laugh at what some of these kids are concerned about! What will I do with my year off? Will employment strengthen my application? OMG! I got a B+!

I know there has been debate on here before on whether or not non-trads are better applicants. But come on! Seriously? I definitely think there is a difference in maturity level. Life happens once you graduate university. Its called employment, responsibility, bills, and everything that happens on top of that.

I'm actually struggling with some of these secondaries that ask about diversity or experiences or struggles because there is too much to choose from.

Ahhh, naive pre-meds.

I sometimes felt that way reading pre-allo, and meeting my classmates I had moments like that too. For example, in orientation one of my classmates was talking about how excited she was to be living outside of a dorm for the first time and to have cooked her first meal all by herself. and I was thinking, awwww how cute. For sure, they are still smart as beans and I learn from them studying together - I've been trying to keep it neutral like "wow, that person is in a different place" rather than falling into the trap.
Also, the life experience thing does not fall only on trad/ non-trad lines. I know one girl who had five years between undergrad and medical school who had always lived w/in 30 miles of home (and her time between school and not school was lab, post-bac, lab).