Reapplicant - any advice would be appreciated!

[seren1051]

Hi all!

I am a Canadian who currently resides in PA for work. Went to good PA university for college and graduated at 2013 with 3.73 cGPA 3.72 sGPA. I've been working in a research lab since graduation, took MCAT Sept 2014 and got 34 (11PS 11VR 12BS). I applied to following schools last cycle:

Einstein
Boston
Case Western
Central Michigan
Emory
Dartmouth
George Washington
Georgetown
Mayo
MCW
Michigan state
NYMC
Oakland
Penn state
Rosalind Franklin
Saint Louis U
Jefferson
SUNY-Downstate
SUNY-Upstate
Tufts
Kentucky
Virginia
VCU
Wayne State

These were schools that accepted several international students past cycle, and were suggested by valuable members of this forum (gyngyn, Goro)

Got 2 II, one post-interview rejection, and one waitlist, although my hope isn't high for that school's waitlist movement. (Also applied to 2 Canadian schools, 2 II, one waitlist.) I am now planning to reapply, but wasn't sure if I should apply this cycle (where my MCAT will still be valid) or wait out and apply next cycle (which means I'll have to retake MCAT?).

When I applied last year, I had Average-to-low EC, did ER volunteering for ~2 years (200 hrs), mostly lab works - undergraduate lab assistant for 2 years, independent research for a year, full-time technician for 1.5 years. Part-time editor in a biomedical paper review agency based in China. A paper submitted but not published then, and 3 LOR - one academic professor, one PhD whom I worked with (and currently works with Continuing medical education), and one PI of the lab I worked in.

Should I apply this year, I would have following additional activities:
- Volunteer in AIDS hospice (80 hours, ongoing)
- Volunteer in a hospital (not clinical) helping underserved patients in non-medical aspect that may contribute to their healthy living, namely assisting with finding/referring to resources that helps with financial, psychological, emotional aspects, etc (started Feb, will have 30+ hours by application)
- Two publications - nothing spectacular, one contributing author, another a fourth author
- Full time research position in a different lab, more geared towards clinical aspect although not a clinical research (1 year)
- Clinical/OR Shadowing (by time of application will be 70+ hours).

I asked for feedback from the school that interviewed and rejected me, and they told me that my application had no 'red flags' - a lot of strong positive comments (although I may have been weak pointing out to my ties to that specific state school/why that school is a good for for me), but in other words I guess that means my application was weak in general.

I believe I can secure one additional LOR from my current PI who recently promoted me and promised to help. I also can ask for LOR from the doctor I shadowed, but it seems like consensus is that it's generally not a good idea to ask for a letter from a doctor whom you shadowed only ~70 hours?

I'm an alumni/staff to my current school, so I can take few courses here without worrying about it financially, but will getting A in these courses - and raising my GPA slightly - help that much? I really want to apply again, but I am not sure if I had bolstered my application enough, and worried that not getting in this time will further hurt my application.

Any help/advice/harsh words will be much appreciated. Thank you!

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[doctorleospaceman]

Hi all!

I am a Canadian who currently resides in PA for work. Went to good PA university for college and graduated at 2013 with 3.73 cGPA 3.72 sGPA. I've been working in a research lab since graduation, took MCAT Sept 2014 and got 34 (11PS 11VR 12BS). I applied to following schools last cycle:

Einstein
Boston
Case Western
Central Michigan
Emory
Dartmouth
George Washington
Georgetown
Mayo
MCW
Michigan state
NYMC
Oakland
Penn state
Rosalind Franklin
Saint Louis U
Jefferson
SUNY-Downstate
SUNY-Upstate
Tufts
Kentucky
Virginia
VCU
Wayne State

These were schools that accepted several international students past cycle, and were suggested by valuable members of this forum (gyngyn, Goro)

Got 2 II, one post-interview rejection, and one waitlist, although my hope isn't high for that school's waitlist movement. (Also applied to 2 Canadian schools, 2 II, one waitlist.) I am now planning to reapply, but wasn't sure if I should apply this cycle (where my MCAT will still be valid) or wait out and apply next cycle (which means I'll have to retake MCAT?).

When I applied last year, I had Average-to-low EC, did ER volunteering for ~2 years (200 hrs), mostly lab works - undergraduate lab assistant for 2 years, independent research for a year, full-time technician for 1.5 years. Part-time editor in a biomedical paper review agency based in China. A paper submitted but not published then, and 3 LOR - one academic professor, one PhD whom I worked with (and currently works with Continuing medical education), and one PI of the lab I worked in.

Should I apply this year, I would have following additional activities:
- Volunteer in AIDS hospice (80 hours, ongoing)
- Volunteer in a hospital (not clinical) helping underserved patients in non-medical aspect that may contribute to their healthy living, namely assisting with finding/referring to resources that helps with financial, psychological, emotional aspects, etc (started Feb, will have 30+ hours by application)
- Two publications - nothing spectacular, one contributing author, another a fourth author
- Full time research position in a different lab, more geared towards clinical aspect although not a clinical research (1 year)
- Clinical/OR Shadowing (by time of application will be 70+ hours).

I asked for feedback from the school that interviewed and rejected me, and they told me that my application had no 'red flags' - a lot of strong positive comments (although I may have been weak pointing out to my ties to that specific state school/why that school is a good for for me), but in other words I guess that means my application was weak in general.

I believe I can secure one additional LOR from my current PI who recently promoted me and promised to help. I also can ask for LOR from the doctor I shadowed, but it seems like consensus is that it's generally not a good idea to ask for a letter from a doctor whom you shadowed only ~70 hours?

I'm an alumni/staff to my current school, so I can take few courses here without worrying about it financially, but will getting A in these courses - and raising my GPA slightly - help that much? I really want to apply again, but I am not sure if I had bolstered my application enough, and worried that not getting in this time will further hurt my application.

Any help/advice/harsh words will be much appreciated. Thank you!

When did you apply/have everything in last year? I definitely wouldn't take any more courses, your GPA doesn't need any work.

 

[seren1051]

When did you apply/have everything in last year? I definitely wouldn't take any more courses, your GPA doesn't need any work.

Thank you for your input. Reason why I was thinking of taking more courses was not just for GPA, but for possibility of securing additional LORs from courses, as I was wondering if relative lack of academic LORs was hurting me, although no schools explicitly told me that.

Early - primary by mid June, all secondaries within 3 days-2 weeks of receiving, everything was completed by end of July. First II was at October (post-interview hold until April then rejection), second II was at February, went on to be waitlist.

 

[GrapesofRath]

Are you a US citizen and PA resident?

If you arent a US resident this is unfortunately par the course for Canadians. Average matriculant stats for internationals to US schools are at 3.75/33.6. Youre right around there. Unfortunately there are way too many qualfied internationals for the few spots available. Much more so than for US citizens applying to these same schools. Like you said you your application just didnt stand out enough in the non academic components in all likelihood for the standards that are relevant to you. For a US applicant this is a strong application. For a Canadian one to US schools, it just comes up just a bit short. International admission to US schools is just very unpredictable.

Now if you are a PA resident and considered a US citizen one problem of yours was that you didnt apply to all your PA schools and the two ones in West Virginia that take tons of people from PA(particularly WVU). PA schools give out IIs to about 25-30% of IS applicants. These OOS schools give out IIs to 5-10% applicants. You can see what a big difference it makes and why not applying to Drexel, TCMC, Temple etc was costly if in fact you are a PA resident.

The advice that can be given here hinges on whether you are a Canadian citizen who isnt a PA resident or a US citizen who is a PA resident. If it's the latter just have a better strategy, target new schools you arent a reapplicant etc and youll be fine. But if you are an international, this is a trickier case.

 

[seren1051]

Are you a US citizen and PA resident?

If you arent a US resident this is unfortunately par the course for Canadians. Average matriculant stats for internationals to US schools are at 3.75/33.6. Youre right around there. Unfortunately there are way too many qualfied internationals for the few spots available. Much more so than for US citizens applying to these same schools. Like you said you your application just didnt stand out enough in the non academic components in all likelihood for the standards that are relevant to you. For a US applicant this is a strong application. For a Canadian one to US schools, it just comes up just a bit short. International admission to US schools is just very unpredictable.

Now if you are a PA resident and considered a US citizen one problem of yours was that you didnt apply to all your PA schools and the two ones in West Virginia that take tons of people from PA(particularly WVU). PA schools give out IIs to about 25-30% of IS applicants. These OOS schools give out IIs to 5-10% applicants. You can see what a big difference it makes and why not applying to Drexel, TCMC, Temple etc was costly if in fact you are a PA resident.

The advice that can be given here hinges on whether you are a Canadian citizen who isnt a PA resident or a US citizen who is a PA resident. If it's the latter just have a better strategy, target new schools you arent a reapplicant etc and youll be fine. But if you are an international, this is a trickier case.

Thanks, unfortunately I am a Canadian with no green card. Didn't apply to Drexel, Temple, etc since they won't accept international applicants.

 

[GrapesofRath]

Thanks, unfortunately I am a Canadian with no green card. Didn't apply to Drexel, Temple, etc since they won't accept international applicants.

These are always some of the hardest situations to give advice to. You have a good application but the standards for an international are just so high.

Some general guidelines I would give

a) I think it would help to wait a year to build up the service with the less fortuante populations in particular. It will add a different dimension to your app which will really help. You kind of said it yourself: your app is good it just doesnt stand out enough to be amongst the few % that get an II from Canada. This is the type of thing that can give you a chance to stand out and appeal to US schools.

b) Many schools will accept a 2014 MCAT for the 2017-18 cycle. You can look up which ones. Even if you have to retake, if you can hit around the same score again I dont think its a significant factor.

c) Target some new schools you wont be a reapplicant at. 62 schools accept internationals. You can eliminate many by the ones that take fewer than 2-3 per year. If you have to retake the MCAT and hit in that same 94th percentile type area you can provide to most of the remaining ones. Those will probably be where your odds are best at.

d) If you get shut out again youll have to consider DO. Likewise, if MD is your end goal it is worth consideration to do a US SMP. I dont know how SMP programs handle internationals and that is worth looking at since I really just havent seen stories of Canadians doing US SMPs. They might exist I just cant give specific input about them. But if in fact there is a track record for Canadians doing US SMPs and succeeding that might be your best bet. Certain programs like RFU for ex have SMPs with direct unofficial linkage. The average SMP student at RFU has a 3.2/27. They have about 130 students and about 55-60 get into RFU med. Finish in the top half of that class where your academic credentials are way above average and in theory you have a very good shot of getting in although again I dont know how the international status will complicate things. But this is one route to certainly look at.

 

[seren1051]

These are always some of the hardest situations to give advice to. You have a good application but the standards for an international are just so high.

Some general guidelines I would give

a) I think it would help to wait a year to build up the service with the less fortuante populations in particular. It will add a different dimension to your app which will really help. You kind of said it yourself: your app is good it just doesnt stand out enough to be amongst the few % that get an II from Canada. This is the type of thing that can give you a chance to stand out and appeal to US schools.

b) Many schools will accept a 2014 MCAT for the 2017-18 cycle. You can look up which ones. Even if you have to retake, if you can hit around the same score again I dont think its a significant factor.

c) Target some new schools you wont be a reapplicant at. 62 schools accept internationals. You can eliminate many by the ones that take fewer than 2-3 per year. If you have to retake the MCAT and hit in that same 94th percentile type area you can provide to most of the remaining ones. Those will probably be where your odds are best at.

d) If you get shut out again youll have to consider DO. Likewise, if MD is your end goal it is worth consideration to do a US SMP. I dont know how SMP programs handle internationals and that is worth looking at since I really just havent seen stories of Canadians doing US SMPs. They might exist I just cant give specific input about them. But if in fact there is a track record for Canadians doing US SMPs and succeeding that might be your best bet. Certain programs like RFU for ex have SMPs with direct unofficial linkage. The average SMP student at RFU has a 3.2/27. They have about 130 students and about 55-60 get into RFU med. Finish in the top half of that class where your academic credentials are way above average and in theory you have a very good shot of getting in although again I dont know how the international status will complicate things. But this is one route to certainly look at.

Thank you so much for your feedback, and pointing me out to those SMP programs - I really appreciate it. I guess you're intending that SMP options to be basically something like a last resort - if I am rejected once more? I am interested at them, but I'll admit that I'm reluctant to move away from where I am right now - I am holding a job with some publication potential (it's so hard for internationals/Canadians to have job in a non-academic sector) and engaged in a number of volunteer/underserved volunteering activities that's starting to mature. There are masters program in and around where I am right now (Philly area), but I don't think any of them has any unofficial linkage to medical schools (only Drexel, but Drexel doesn't accept international MD applicants).

I made a mistake of applying to vast majority of the schools in the low-to-mid tiers that accept internationals, and I'm afraid that I'll be reapplicant to most of them. I guess that's why I am considering applying next year, as I feel like with stronger EC (with perhaps additional LOR from taking post-bacc courses?) than this year I'd be in a better position. However, that'll also mean a good 4-5 years since my graduation - yes, I've been working ever since then in an academic research field, but I'm afraid if that'll be received as a lot of stagnancy since graduation...

Thank you!

 

[dial1010usa]

Try DO route.