reasons for NOT pursuing epidemiology?

[Jay181019]

Epidemiology is something I've recently started getting interested in. One of the things that I keep coming across is that it's so interdisciplinary. I've done really well with math and science in college, I enjoying being around people (but I don't mind the idea of being in front of a computer working on projects and data), I've often thought I wanted to be a teacher, I like the idea of investigating patterns for causes of diseases, etc. I'm going to start shadowing a state epidemiologist and learn about SAS...

Anyway, what are some big reasons to NOT pursue epidemiology? For example, I don't mind working on a computer, but I certainly don't want to analyze statistics all day every day. Is that going to be a problem? I also don't want to be working 80 hours a week doing mundane research. Of course, there will be weeks when the hours will be long and the research might get mundane, but how frequently does that occur? Is the career personally rewarding?

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[Stories]

Like any science field, it's super broad and you can take the career in many different directions.

And it's probably not as interdisciplinary as you think it is. But it's as interdisciplinary as the broad term "biology". The subfields within is where you'll primarily spend the most of your time is very specific. Math (statistics more specifically) is a crucial component of every single scientific discipline, and it's no different in epidemiology.

Much in the same way that a biologist working at a local city department would be significantly different than a biologist working at a biotech firm, epidemiologists roles are significantly different. A state epidemiologist's job would probably be primarily related to investigations of outbreaks and containment. Whereas an epidemiologist working for a pharma company would be working on the efficacy of a drug in trial phase, and a university prof would be working on investigating the additional risk to hepatic health conferred by possessing one of 20 SNPs in susceptibility to atrazine.

Mundane is the daily grind of every single job in the world (unless, of course, maybe you're a professional athlete, but even then the training process is tedious), so there'll definitely be times when the day-to-day tasks of whatever your working on will be dull. Epidemiology is a slow moving process and you just have to stick with (an average university study will go for at least 4 years, a state investigation is probably much quicker (on the scale of 1-6 months)).

I find the field rewarding, which is why I'm pursuing a PhD. Of course, I want to be a principal investigator, and the only option to become one is to get a doctoral-level degree. But I don't think I'd mind being a mid-level epi. You get to be involved with investigations and you're affecting the quality of life of countless individuals.

 

[MLS2010]

Hi Stories,

I've been following a few of these threads and have seen your posts in several of them, and I have to say I appreciate your input and insight on Public Health.

I too am quite interested in pursuing an MPH in Epidemiology. I've been doing some research online but most of the stuff I get is very broad, and it seems like there isn't only one direction to shape one's career in public health, and this sort of obscurity can be quite unappealing, especially when you're talking about shelling out a lot of money to get an education which may or may not pay off (financially, anyways) in the end.

But what I'm interested in is the field of Clinical Epidemiology. However, most of the jobs postings I see online require either a nursing or a medical degree. I'm currently in school working on my Medical Laboratory Science degree. I was hoping that becomeing a certified med tech, combined with an MPH in Epidemiology, will be enough to get me in the door. But I'm not even sure if this is the right path to take. Are you in any way familiar with this field? Are there any websites/books/any kind of resources you could direct me to so I can do more research on the field? Any input/advice would definitely be helpful. Thanks!

Daniel

 

[smarty666]

Hi Stories,

I've been following a few of these threads and have seen your posts in several of them, and I have to say I appreciate your input and insight on Public Health.

I too am quite interested in pursuing an MPH in Epidemiology. I've been doing some research online but most of the stuff I get is very broad, and it seems like there isn't only one direction to shape one's career in public health, and this sort of obscurity can be quite unappealing, especially when you're talking about shelling out a lot of money to get an education which may or may not pay off (financially, anyways) in the end.

But what I'm interested in is the field of Clinical Epidemiology. However, most of the jobs postings I see online require either a nursing or a medical degree. I'm currently in school working on my Medical Laboratory Science degree. I was hoping that becomeing a certified med tech, combined with an MPH in Epidemiology, will be enough to get me in the door. But I'm not even sure if this is the right path to take. Are you in any way familiar with this field? Are there any websites/books/any kind of resources you could direct me to so I can do more research on the field? Any input/advice would definitely be helpful. Thanks!

Daniel

You are quite correct! I too have an interest in clinical epidemiology because my interest lies in chronic/infectious diseases and how to control them. I found out that the majority of clinical epi jobs, want either a RN, NP, PA, or MD/DO background. Your medical technology background might help but from the MDs I've spoken with, most have to be certified MTs and have worked in the lab for a few years, for the experience in order to ever possibly be considered for infection control, clinical epidemiology, etc.

Being a certificed medical technologist is really the only way, except for getting a clinical degree in those ares I mentioned, you'll won'tbe able to do the real design, leadership, or interacting parts of clinical research/studies with patients because they want people with clinical experience dealing with patients actually doing the interactions with them. That is what I've found out and have had to regear my game plan of going to be a PA or MD in conjunction with the MPH in order to to clinical epidemiology/research the way I want too. Without getting that RN, MT, NP, PA, or MD/DO background, even with the MPH, you'll be extremely limited to what you can do in clinical epidemiology, mainly too the paper work, data analysis, etc (the more boring parts basically) then getting to interact with patients, decide treatment options, or running the study itself.

I personally want to be able to examine, talk to, and treat patients because I'm a people person so I'm going to have to get some sort of clinical degree. That is not to say there are not some studies with just a MPH you won't get to interview or interact with patients but it depends a lot on what the study is doing. With a clinical degree, you'll already have the patient interactions so you won't be limited at all.

 

[MLS2010]

Hey smarty, thanks for the reply.

I sort of expected that being able to work in a clinical setting will require some sort of certification, except perhaps if you work in admin or IT or other non-clinical function. But ICP positions in particular seem to prefer people with a nursing background, which I suppose is understandable since they're more well-rounded as far as equipment, patient dynamics, and everything else happening on the floor which are important factors when it comes to hospital epidemiology. On the other hand, med techs have more science/technical background, which in my opinion is more in tune with epidemiology, as it is from what I understand a science-intensive field.

I do plan on getting my ASCP certification when I graduate, and work in a hospital lab to get experience. I'll work on my MPH degree while employed as an MLS, if that's possible. I suppose I just want some reassurance that med techs can get employment in clinical epidemiology, and not just nurses.

And as far as patient interaction/treatment, I wasn't aware that clinical epidemiologists function in that capacity. I thought it was more of a consultative role, interacting more with hospital personnel than patients (except when investigating particular cases, say an MRSA incidence in the NICU). I wouldn't mind working with patients, but I would definitely prefer to work in the background, in a more technical capacity.

Do you have any information on earnings/salary in this field?

 

[Stories]

Lot to digest here. Clinical Epidemiology is also a relatively broad term to encompass multiple areas of epidemiology: it could refer to drug trials, treatment trials, morbidity assessments, and so forth. Depending on which area you want to pursue, you should shoot for education in that area. You also need to ask yourself what capacity you see yourself in. If you want to be a PI, you need a PhD or MD/MPH, if you want to be part of the research staff, a MPH would be sufficient. Without clinical certification, you won't be part of the clinical research team, though.

Patient interaction, broadly put, isn't something only clincians can do. If you're not a clinician, you won't be part of the diagnostic portion of the research (except for the machines you might be dong), but you can still be part of the other data collection process (like a Food Frequency Questionnaire, for example).

Generally, research pays less than industry, and a master's level position in research will generally be in the $50-60k range. Keep in mind, this is at position such as an analyst, manager, or other mid-level staffer. This does not include entry-level positions such as research assistant or research technician, which the salary would be considerably lower (probably closer to $35-40k).

 

[jkmph]

Of all the concentrations at Emory RSPH which includes BSHE, Global, EPI, HPM, EOH and Epi; the epi's have had the most luck job hunting. In many cases, my global friends who have gotten jobs have been hired because they are fluent in SAS/SPSS and basic epi/biostats. Thirdly, some of my non-Epi friends pursuing a PhD have been going into Epi PhD programs.

The exception might be the HPM management track but they go off into their own niche field.

I'm definitely of the opinion that Epidemiology is the most marketable public health degree and I think you'd find many professors/CDC employees would agree. Thats my experience from Emory and the CDC.

As for epidemiologists who don't do analysis and research, good luck. Epidemiologists without a medical degree are probably going to be doing number crunching/interpreting for the rest of their life. It may be 30% of your job or 90%, depending on where you end up and what you're doing. But let's be realistic, biostatistics and bioinformatics is what drives epidemiology.

 

[abcabc1]

Of all the concentrations at Emory RSPH which includes BSHE, Global, EPI, HPM, EOH and Epi; the epi's have had the most luck job hunting. In many cases, my global friends who have gotten jobs have been hired because they are fluent in SAS/SPSS and basic epi/biostats. Thirdly, some of my non-Epi friends pursuing a PhD have been going into Epi PhD programs.

Have you found Epi candidates to be more successful in job hunting than those studying BIOS at Rollins? I know Emory is very good in both, so I'd imagine its BIOS graduates are doing well in the job market.

 

[snackerina]

Hi all.
What roles can a veterinarian play in d field of epi?
I'm reconsidering epi.I want to be sure it's right for me.I want to be involved indisease containment//response to outbreaks, especially zoonoses/infectious diseases.Like a mix of field work and lab work.

Also I'm interested in program planning and evaluation.

I HATE routine work.I like work that presents interesting challenges often.

Could epi give me all this?Is it very easy finding work with an MPH epi and a DVM background?

Is epi really all about numbers...that sounds a little boring..pls say it's not boring..
What kind of jobs can someone with a dvm and mph in epi apply for?

 

[jkmph]

Have you found Epi candidates to be more successful in job hunting than those studying BIOS at Rollins? I know Emory is very good in both, so I'd imagine its BIOS graduates are doing well in the job market.

Good question. I would argue that I have a sample size bias. The BIOS department is small and I honestly can't even name an MPH (i.e. non-PhD) BIOS student. There's only a handful in my class and the one behind me.

That said, your intuition is probably quite correct. I imagine they aren't having much trouble finding jobs.

 

[jkmph]

Hi all.
What roles can a veterinarian play in d field of epi?
I'm reconsidering epi.I want to be sure it's right for me.I want to be involved indisease containment//response to outbreaks, especially zoonoses/infectious diseases.Like a mix of field work and lab work.

Also I'm interested in program planning and evaluation.

I HATE routine work.I like work that presents interesting challenges often.

Could epi give me all this?Is it very easy finding work with an MPH epi and a DVM background?

Is epi really all about numbers...that sounds a little boring..pls say it's not boring..
What kind of jobs can someone with a dvm and mph in epi apply for?

There are definitely people out there with DVM/MPH degrees. It's probably significantly less common than PhD or MD/DO doctorates, but they exist. If you're genuinely interested in zoonotic diseases then it's a great career path.

 

[Stories]

There are definitely people out there with DVM/MPH degrees. It's probably significantly less common than PhD or MD/DO doctorates, but they exist. If you're genuinely interested in zoonotic diseases then it's a great career path.

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but DVM trains someone in diagnosis and treatment of disease among animals, correct? Would working in zoonotic diseases transfer skills learned as a vet over? I've never met another individual who has a veterinary degree that has a MPH.

 

[ald]

From the Commissioned Corps' website:

As a veterinary officer in the Commissioned Corps, you'll have many roles to choose from, and your work will be anything but routine. You can serve as a clinician responding to animal and human disease outbreaks, or manage disease prevention and control programs. Other challenges include conducting medical and biological research in the company of world-class investigators, or regulating drugs and monitoring vaccine development. You can ensure public safety as a public health compliance or quarantine officer.

http://www.usphs.gov/profession/veterinarian/default.aspx

 

[jkmph]

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but DVM trains someone in diagnosis and treatment of disease among animals, correct? Would working in zoonotic diseases transfer skills learned as a vet over? I've never met another individual who has a veterinary degree that has a MPH.

There's a DVM/MPH guy in my class who wants to do EIS. I haven't interacted with him much and don't know what his actual interests are, but I think the EIS target speaks for itself.

 

[snackerina]

Thanks guys....

 

[alicecalifornia]

Hi snackerina,
i work for UC Davis' dept. of public health. UCD has a vet school and a med school and many of the professors who teach in their public health program are from the vet school so they have the students learning how to do analysis into outbreaks amongst animals (mostly live stock as this is an agriculture/farm-centric school.) I'm not sure what kinds of jobs a person with this training does specifically but I'd imagine there is a need for someone who knows how to do this kind of epidemiology.
alice

 

[sapaes]

hi all! i just got accepted to start my masters in Hopkins. i would become an epidemiologist within the division of international health in a couple of years. i was wondering if any of u know what kind of entry job i can get after graduation as well as if it is worthy to continue being in school after being done with my masters.... for instance, i usually get asked if i would consider applying to med school. i'm 23 and i'd love being a doctor, but i think i like more the flexibility of traveling overseas as long as my profession allows it instead of being in a hospital all day long. any advice?

 

[MindCastle15]

With reference to the above post, I'm interested in professions in health care, and I'm not going to study medicine for the same reasons- I want to have a job where I can travel! Is epidemiology one of them? How about research scientists? Any other jobs?

 

[scribePT]

^ I am also curious if there is plenty of room for travel as an Epi.

 

[Stories]

Does conference and scientific meeting travel count?

Otherwise, generally speaking, most epidemiologists probably don't travel too frequently.

 

[scribePT]

It seems like a lot of high-paying Epi jobs require a medical degree or clinical training. I've been looking around for joint-MD/MPH programs in the U.S. and I think that could work out fine. But I'm worried about the costs, as much as the time to obtain an MD/MPH-Epi degree. Is it worth it to become a physician/epidemiologist? Does it help with the job/career, in general? Could the same level of experience be achieved through research outside of the MPH program?

Also, has anyone here successfully attended grad school for an MD/MPH in epi?

 

[Fiji_PCV11]

Hey everyone, I am curious, can anyone know about the field of Social Epidemiology?
I'm very interested in studying the affects of religious beliefs/practices on public health and am not sure if this type of work/research is more social epi or social/behavioral kind of stuff...

 

[mlr2834]

Hey everyone, I am curious, can anyone know about the field of Social Epidemiology?
I'm very interested in studying the affects of religious beliefs/practices on public health and am not sure if this type of work/research is more social epi or social/behavioral kind of stuff...

I think it depends on two things, first your angle that you are looking at the topic as. For example, it would be more social and behavioral if you were using a religious entity as a place for a public health intervention. There is a lot going on with this with Black churches in Philly on HIV screening interventions. If you are more interested in questions like "Are people who attend xyz religious services more/less likely to have abc health outcome." You might not necessarily ask the question in that way, but the emphasis is on a lack of a short term intervention. They kind of blend together if you find an intervention that has demonstrated efficacy, you introduce that for the long term, and study people's health outcomes from there. The line can definitely blur.

The other thing it depends on is how the school categorizes it, honestly if it is its own separate entity on itself. For example, at Harvard School of Public Health, social epi is under the social and behavioral science department. At UNC, it is in the epi department. Some schools don't recognize it as its own sector yet at all.

 

[Stories]

It seems like a lot of high-paying Epi jobs require a medical degree or clinical training. I've been looking around for joint-MD/MPH programs in the U.S. and I think that could work out fine. But I'm worried about the costs, as much as the time to obtain an MD/MPH-Epi degree. Is it worth it to become a physician/epidemiologist? Does it help with the job/career, in general? Could the same level of experience be achieved through research outside of the MPH program?

Also, has anyone here successfully attended grad school for an MD/MPH in epi?

I think depends on what you think of a high paying? An epi rarely makes a physician-level salary, but few jobs do unless you have physician training. The market rate for someone with physician training pays what is comparable salary (being a physician). Even with the same position at a pharma or university, the MD will make more money than the PhD. The training is longer and the route not as direct, and the costs are higher. So the compensation tends to be higher as there are more career options. There is definitely an opportunity cost.

A private sector epidemiologist (e.g. biotech, pharma) pays better than a faculty or academic position--but this is not dissimilar from many other fields which have a private and public option. An entry level epi at a pharma will make over $100k/year whereas a new faculty member probably breaks in closer to $75k/year. All these are location-dependent, as well. These salaries are not competitive with a physician salary, however, and a PhD usually cannot expect to make similar to a physician. The exception being, as you mentioned, a MD holder doing epidemiology work. Just sort of how the job market is.

I think the biggest question is--what's more important in your life? A PhD probably gets you there sooner with much lower expense. But you have lower salary. Other option is for med school with longer training time, greater cost, but higher salary. But you also have other job options that may not even take you to being an epi.