red flag (dui) from 5 years ago, ms4 anesthesiology match

[propofolSTAT]

2 years before medical school, I ****ed up majorly and ended up with a DUI conviction on my record. (Unfortunately, this occurred in a state with no pretrial diversion program and no way of removing/avoiding a conviction for first-time offenders) I was fortunate that no one was hurt and there was no property/vehicle damage. It was the worst thing that has ever happened to me. It was an isolated incident and I have moved past it. I know many will find this reprehensible, which I understand but I really don't want this to turn into another demonizing DUI thread. I am writing because this because I need some sound advice and want others to be able to find this thread useful if they find themselves in a similar situation (seriously, don't drink and drive... it is the worst.) Those who feel the need to flame, trust me- there is nothing you could say that could cause me any more suffering than I have caused to myself regarding this situation. Anyway, I've sought out advice regarding this, including my school's PD, and haven't really received much helpful information.

So, by the time I start a residency, this incident will be closer to 6 years in the past. I've done well in medical school and have had no issues with going on my rotations. I'm not 100% sure, but I would say I'm probably in the top 1/2 of my medical school. I got a 245-250 on step 1 and 250s on step 2. Clinical years are a mix of mostly H/HP and a few Ps (it's difficult to get anything above P at my school). I have some extracurricular, leadership, and volunteer activities but no significant pubs/research. My LORs will also be relatively strong I think. My PD told me that I was a pretty strong applicant until we talked about the DUI, in which they kinda shrugged their shoulders and encouraged me to apply broadly and take every interview.

I'm wondering how much this DUI will hurt my application, especially considering it was 2 years before medical school? Should I really be applying to 40-50+ schools? Is there anyone out there with any encouraging stories? Anyone know of anyone who has matched with a DUI? Are there any states that will make licensing during residency difficult?

I was hoping to land a solid NYC anesthesia program, but I really don't know how this will play out and fear that this will take me out of consideration at the big programs so I am willing to broaden my scope.

I appreciate any advice anyone is willing to bestow. This is a topic I've seen broached many times, but it's been difficult to pull out any useful advice/blips of information amongst all the negativity, deleted threads, etc.

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[WholeLottaGame7]

I think it helps that it was 6 years in the past, so you've had time to show (presumably) your maturity and growth. The rest of your stats are great, so I think you should be fine.

That said, program directors are people and have prejudices (some justified, some not), and anesthesia is a field that does not mix well with people with substance abuse tendencies, so some people may still hold it against you. Given the subjectivity, I certainly wouldn't apply to just 3 or 4 programs just because your objective stats look good. There are no match stats for people with DUIs that I'm aware of, so I can't say for certainty, but 40 programs seems high. Maybe in the range of 20ish sounds about right?

 

[AdmiralChz]

Be honest and you might be able to turn it into an interesting story about how you have (hopefully) matured since this time. None of us are perfect and we all make mistakes. Honestly there is not much you can do about it now, but absolutely apply broadly to a good mix of programs - perhaps including some community-based programs as a "just in case." I think the standard 20-30 programs discussed in tons of other threads would be OK.

From a licensing standpoint, I think you will be fine since it's a training license and you are > 5 years out, but I am not the authority on this. Anesthesiology takes substance abuse quite seriously so there's a high likelihood of it being brought up at most or all of your interviews. Be professional and show growth (not defensiveness) and this probably shouldn't hold you back too much.

 

[NICMAN]

Your stats will land you one of 50 others at top programs. A DWI will easily put you in the bottom 40% of the rank list of those programs. Most rank lists don't go that far down. Anesthesiology is a field where judgement and integrity are essential core competencies. Perhaps it was just 6 years ago, but for a program director who has practiced for 35 years who knows colleagues who have died, and who has had to personally fire residents for diverting drugs, you chances are slim. Now, if the program is desperately looking for qualified candidates then you might have a chance. You may think that is prejudicial, but it is a risk-benefit calculation, and there are many good applicants. Some of them don't have as good test scores, but the may have been in the special forces, or played NCAA sports, or founded a tech company, etc.. There is an implicit assumption that everybody has skeletons in their closet that they are hiding that only come out CA-1 call at midnight. Since this was simply an isolated incident then I am sure your home program would love to have you. They are probably your best chance of getting a spot.

 

[BLADEMDA]

Your stats will land you one of 50 others at top programs. A DWI will easily put you in the bottom 40% of the rank list of those programs. Most rank lists don't go that far down. Anesthesiology is a field where judgement and integrity are essential core competencies. Perhaps it was just 6 years ago, but for a program director who has practiced for 35 years who knows colleagues who have died, and who has had to personally fire residents for diverting drugs, you chances are slim. Now, if the program is desperately looking for qualified candidates then you might have a chance. You may think that is prejudicial, but it is a risk-benefit calculation, and there are many good applicants. Some of them don't have as good test scores, but the may have been in the special forces, or played NCAA sports, or founded a tech company, etc.. There is an implicit assumption that everybody has skeletons in their closet that they are hiding that only come out CA-1 call at midnight. Since this was simply an isolated incident then I am sure your home program would love to have you. They are probably your best chance of getting a spot.

Ouch. My advice is the following:

Top 10-15 programs will be a reach for you but I still encourage you to apply. That said, you should plan on no more than 5 interviews even if you get them in this group.

Apply to 15 mid-tier programs. This will be your best chance of success. Plan on at least 10 interviews.

Apply to 5 bottom tier programs. These are your safety programs. Plan on going to all 5 interviews.

Total: 35 applications followed by 20 interviews (which is highly likely).

Finally, I recommend programs in the midwest and south to add diversification to your mix. You can't put all your eggs in one location.

 

[pjl]

I think you have a decent chance at ANY program you apply where you would have had a chance without the DUI.

You WILL suffer in ranking at most of these places, but if you are honest, have truly changed behavior and can show it, you stand a decent chance that ONE of these programs will look past it. The problem for you is that you will have no idea which one. Apply broadly, go on a lot more interviews than similar stat person would.

All it takes is ONE program to see past this, and you are fine.

That said, if you have not changed your life, and have underlying tendencies towards addiction, DO NOT go into anesthesia. The path towards diversion and eventual death is well paved.


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[Gas you down]

it hurts, yeah. but who knows, lots of programs have their own people in these Physician Rehab programs for diff reasons. you certainly won't be the first applicant with a DUI that's for sure. state licensing will give you more grief than the programs imho.
apply to 20 mid tier. be positive. show how you've grown as a person. remember all the people who've come across your OR table after drinking and driving, so never do it again...ever. good luck!!!

 

[vector2]

My advice is to write a brilliant and thoughtful personal statement about the DUI and explain why you are remorseful about it, and why such behavior hasn't happened since and won't happen in the future. Play it in such a light that it was a one-time, youthful, boneheaded move, and that such an occurrence shouldn't prevent you from making a positive impact for the next 30 years of your life.

 

[Notorious T.E.E.]

In my residency class we had 1 previous DUI that I knew about, so it is possible. Like you, it was remote with no further problems.

 

[ZzzPlz]

At least you know for certain already you won't match into a program with a square, hard on PD.

 

[pgg]

You're not going to have any trouble at all with licensing. Seriously, a 6-year-old DUI with no injuries and no damages and no felony conviction, and a clean record since? Not a worry.


Perhaps I'm in the minority here, but in terms of ranking residency applicants I wouldn't hold a 6-year-old DUI against someone who's obviously passed through a subsequent difficult patch of life (med school) with flying colors. As the tipping point when ranking two mythically identical applicants? I guess.

I would ask about it during an interview, mainly to gauge the kind of response I got, the same way I asked about prior academic problems when I interviewed applicants. If there's mature insight and an obvious correction in trajectory, move on.

When asked, own the error, acknowledge the substance abuse risk of our speciality, and in a mature way explain that it's made you a more cautious, careful person.

If you have no substance problems now, and have had none since, I think the last thing I'd do is get enrolled into an abuse program.

I don't think it should be the centerpiece of your personal statement. There will probably be a section of the app asking about prior legal troubles - disclose it and explain it there. Don't belabor the point in the PS.


The world has gone way overboard on the DUI = incorrigible scumbag thing. You should apply to some extra programs because not everyone feels the way I do, but you're going to match just fine.

 

[Pooh & Annie]

What percent of Americans who drink have driven with a breathalyzer BAL above .08? I'm guessing >70%

Maybe I'm way off, but I doubt it. I agree with pgg that we may have gone a little overboard with the judgement. And I know people that get real judgy but would have DUIs themselves if it weren't for real cautious buzzed driving.

You'll be alright. A second DUI would be real big.

I'd be careful with the state's physician monitoring thing. If this was a fluke and you don't have a problem, just move on. The monitoring thing can get deeper than you think real fast (months of inpatient rehab, years of groups/monitoring etc...).
If you do maybe have a problem, they can save your life/career.

 

[003043039]

What percent of Americans who drink have driven with a breathalyzer BAL above .08? I'm guessing >70%

Maybe I'm way off, but I doubt it. I agree with pgg that we may have gone a little overboard with the judgement. And I know people that get real judgy but would have DUIs themselves if it weren't for real cautious buzzed driving.

You'll be alright. A second DUI would be real big.

I'd be careful with the state's physician monitoring thing. If this was a fluke and you don't have a problem, just move on. The monitoring thing can get deeper than you think real fast (months of inpatient rehab, years of groups/monitoring etc...).
If you do maybe have a problem, they can save your life/career.

I have two DUI's. The most recent was 8 years ago. I attend AA meetings as a requirement for my current job. Being that people can get real judgmental when it comes to this matter, would you think it better to mention the AA meetings or just mention the continued abstinence?? Part of me feels like mentioning the AA meetings shows I am proactive, but I also feel like it comes with a stigma.

 

[propofolSTAT]

Thanks for the advice and support guys! I will let you all know how I do on the cycle.

I do think that enrolling in a substance abuse program seems a bit... excessive. Yes, I have a DUI and I guess some people may automatically see that as 'evidence' of a drug problem, but to be honest that is really far from the case. I think it would be weird to enroll in a program 5 years AFTER the incident as well. I feel like it would be catastrophizing the incident even more. It honestly still feels weird having this attached to me- i've honestly never been a big drinker, especially compared to some of my medical school classmates... It is very easy to get a DUI in some states. The best thing to do is NEVER DRIVE after ingesting any alcohol. Period. If they smell alcohol at all, you are being arrested and it'll be on you to prove your innocence. I thought I was 'okay' after having 3 drinks and waiting a few hours.. I was wrong. Unless you are confident you can blow a 0.00 when prompted, JUST DON'T DO IT GUYS. It's not worth it!

I forgot to mention that I am also couples matching, which is throwing another curveball into the picture. I'm hoping that I don't drag her down too much and that my engagement to her further demonstrates my stability/maturity and progression into adult life.

We went through the list and I have 63 anesthesia programs, which may be excessive, but couples matching is important to us and we want to give ourselves the most combinations/best chances. Most my programs are mid-tier east coast and south programs, with a few pretty good programs twinkled in. Hoping to match at a place like Emory or Albert Einstein.

 

[Pooh & Annie]

I have two DUI's. The most recent was 8 years ago. I attend AA meetings as a requirement for my current job. Being that people can get real judgmental when it comes to this matter, would you think it better to mention the AA meetings or just mention the continued abstinence?? Part of me feels like mentioning the AA meetings shows I am proactive, but I also feel like it comes with a stigma.

Congrats and good work! I don't know the right answer, but if it were me I'd probably say something like "I've been proactive in my health/sobriety for almost a decade now and while life isn't always perfect, by the efforts and changes I've made I feel stronger and better in just about every facet of my life". Maybe say something about how you have an empathy for patients who feel stigmatized by the nature of their diseases.

I don't understand though. Are you applying for residency or looking for a new job as an anesthesiologist?

 

[loveumms]

You will be fine. I've conducted hundreds of resident interviews and there have been several with DUIs or eating disorders (another red flag b/c it signifies a potential for substance abuse down the road). Although this does factor into the decision to rank or not, it does not mean you are doomed and we've ranked those with DUIs. We had a resident get a DUI while in training. Life happens and we all make mistakes (ignore those who get on the soapbox - I know you have probably beat yourself up about this enough and don't let others drag you back into that shame).

I would not contact your physicians health program but know that you will have to report this on any licensing applications and sometimes the PHP finds out about it through that avenue so be prepared (I would drink at all during those times if I were you).

People can be as judgmental as they want - it is an internet forum after all. If you truly have learned from your mistake, if you've grown as a person and a physician then this was a mistake that you made and you have done what you can to rectify it. I'm not condoning drinking and driving but having been through something similar, I can guarantee that I'm a better physician because of it.

 

[pgg]

What percent of Americans who drink have driven with a breathalyzer BAL above .08? I'm guessing >70%

If you're underage a .01% is a DUI in many states. The number of people guilty of "DUI" who just didn't get caught, probably exceeds 90% ...

 

[Consigliere]

Contact you state's physician substance abuse program and see what they have to say. They usually have a program that once you are enrolled or have completed they will advocate on your behalf. It may seem like a headache but trust me; their backing usually carries a lot of weight.

DO NOT DO THIS. Complete overkill.

 

[003043039]

Congrats and good work! I don't know the right answer, but if it were me I'd probably say something like "I've been proactive in my health/sobriety for almost a decade now and while life isn't always perfect, by the efforts and changes I've made I feel stronger and better in just about every facet of my life". Maybe say something about how you have an empathy for patients who feel stigmatized by the nature of their diseases.

I don't understand though. Are you applying for residency or looking for a new job as an anesthesiologist?

Thank you for your feedback! I am applying for FM residency.

 

[Gastrapathy]

@pgg: I don't think we've gone overboard. On the contrary, I'd put breathalyzer ignition locks as a requirement to drive post DUI forever.

My personal experience (at the risk of outing myself): my sea daddy returned from a 13 month ICAF deployment only to be killed 4 days later by a murderer on his third DUI. The murderer had a valid DL. My wife was also rear-ended by a drunk driver with my kids in the car. He had been charged but not convicted of DWI before. No injuries that time.

The argument about "everyone does it" makes the false presumption that people who are caught aren't higher risk than the one timer. People who are caught are likely to have driven drunk dozens of times before being caught. Just like when you guys start dipping in the fancy opioids, habitual drunk drivers are never caught "the very first time your honor."

Would you take the same view about drunk pilots or drunk surgeons?

A friend of mine with a license in Washington State had a DUI 10 years before med school. He had to interview in person with the board and get an assessment from a substance abuse counsellor but was free and clear thereafter.

OP, you'll probably get a spot but there will be PDs like me who will flush your app. DUI recidivism rates are 30%+. Not worth the risk.

 

[Consigliere]

@pgg:

OP, you'll probably get a spot but there will be PDs like me who will flush your app.

Wow. You judgemental prick. This poster, and anyone really, would be better off not going to your program since they could never meet your standards of perfection.

 

[Gastrapathy]

Did you read the rest of my post?

Ok. I'm a prick. My friend is dead. Recidivism rates are 30%. People with prior DUIs are considerably more likely to kill people. OP doesn't think it was that big a deal. He thought he was fine (of course he thought that how many times before).

No one is perfect but I'd take people with histories of most petty crimes before this fundamentally selfish act. I'd much rather he was snorting coke in the club bathroom while pissing on a cops shoes (true story for an intern recently) than driving drunk.

http://www.cdc.gov/motorvehiclesafety/impaired_driving/impaired-drv_factsheet.html

Also, OP, you need to understand the way the couples match works. As long as she ranks everything without you after all the couples combos, her match won't be affected.

 

[Consigliere]

People with prior DUIs are considerably more likely to kill people.

Kill people how? Murder them? Are they more likely to drive drunk and kill someone? How does this translate to a program director evaluating a potential resident? Surely you aren't implying that someone with a DUI is more likely to kill someone in the OR. Right?

I did read your post. In it you said: "A friend of mine with a license in Washington State had a DUI 10 years before med school. He had to interview in person with the board and get an assessment from a substance abuse counsellor but was free and clear thereafter." Now you say your friend is dead. Was the experience of interviewing before the board so traumatic it killed him?

 

[vector2]

OP doesn't think it was that big a deal.

OP: It was the worst thing that has ever happened to me.

dude, your horse is a little too high

 

[Gastrapathy]

People with prior DUIs are more likely to be involved in future fatal car crashes. This reflects the magnitude of the public health problem and the fact that a single DUI isn't trivial.

For a small-program PD, you are very aware of the pain that personal problems for a single resident/fellow will bring to the group. You can't prevent illness, pregnancy complications, etc but you can try to avoid selecting people who have demonstrated poor judgement through their prior behavior. We don't want people who will fail academically and we don't want someone at high risk for legal troubles. There's no data I'm aware of for recidivism for DUI amongst physicians. But, even if you assume it's a third of the general population, that's still 10%. We know that most alcoholics go back to drinking after OLT. I have all the empathy in the world for alcoholics and I deal with them daily but if they drive to an appt at my office and are impaired, I send the DMV postcard.

If I'm going to take a risk, I'll take it on the marginal academic candidate with the compelling personal story over this guy. if your specialty isn't as competitive (I thought it was), then maybe everywhere will gamble on him.

 

[Gastrapathy]

@vector2: he said it's easy to get a DUI.

 

[Consigliere]

No one is perfect but I'd take people with histories of most petty crimes before this fundamentally selfish act. I'd much rather he was snorting coke in the club bathroom while pissing on a cops shoes (true story for an intern recently) than driving drunk.
.

Would you mind posting what program you're a PD at so that some hapless medical student doesn't have the misfortune of matching there? You equate someone who had 3 beers and drove as a "fundamentally selfish act" yet dismiss a coke snorting individual who blatantly disrespects the police!? What the f-uck is wrong with you!?

 

[Gastrapathy]

The intern didn't mean to urinate on the police officer. The police officer behaved admirably. It wasn't a good choice but he didn't place other people at risk. He was treated more harshly by our institution than the fellow who got a DUI several years prior. I disagreed with that. In my opinion, a DUI is a worse choice. It's not the booze. It's the selfish choice to risk others to save a few bucks (almost always repeatedly).

The friend who was killed was not the same person as the med school classmate/friend with the pre-med school DUI. He was my mentor. Served his country with distinction and was hit by a drunk driver on a country road as we went out camping to celebrate his safe return from war.

In the interests of disclosure, I'm not a PD anymore. (Insert snarky comment here). But the guy I hired to replace me is a total kitten so don't worry.

 

[Consigliere]

The friend who was killed was not the same person. He was my mentor. Served his country with distinction and was hit by a drunk driver on a country road as we went out camping to celebrate his safe return from war.

Got it. I am sorry to hear that; that is a totally preventable tragedy. God must have needed a warrior in heaven and it was his time.

 

[Gastrapathy]

Thank you. My point wasn't really to indict the OP. It was more to make the case that we should be mindful of the cost of DUI and that the OP will run into people with experiences like mine and we aren't going to necessarily be as forgiving as some of the posters here. I have great respect for @pgg in particular but I disagree here.

 

[Pooh & Annie]

Thank you. My point wasn't really to indict the OP. It was more to make the case that we should be mindful of the cost of DUI and that the OP will run into people with experiences like mine and we aren't going to necessarily be as forgiving as some of the posters here. I have great respect for @pgg in particular but I disagree here.

Of course drunk driving is costly to society. But there are statistics and there are individuals. When giving individuals advice why not give them the benefit of the doubt and trust they mean it when they say they've gotten it together?

And I don't feel like looking, but someone somewhere somehow has collected data demonstrating that physicians in recovery programs make better doctors. Regardless I have a feeling that many, if not most seasoned PDs have some degree of interest in talking to applicants with less than perfect histories.

 

[pgg]

@pgg: I don't think we've gone overboard. On the contrary, I'd put breathalyzer ignition locks as a requirement to drive post DUI forever.

I can certainly appreciate that perspective.

On a related topic, I've known an anesthesiologist and a CRNA who were diverting opiates. One did not return to practice, one did. I think the one who did return shouldn't have, because he had multiple other serious risk factors for relapse. I actually argued fairly strongly in written statements that our hospital not permit any kind of supervised return to practice, and stated that I would refuse to be a part of it if he returned. That was about 5 years ago. He's still alive and practicing. I'm glad to have been wrong about him, so far. And I knew three Navy Corpsmen with opiate problems, and one of those stories ended tragically. If you search this forum, somewhere you'll find my posts from a few years ago arguing that virtually all anesthesiologists who divert opiates should never return to practice.

In retrospect, I think I was overly rigid, and my objectivity on the subject was clouded by the total disasters of the two people I knew best whose lives were derailed. They didn't even die, or kill someone close to me, so I can't claim to fully understand what you went through.


Anyway, my main disagreement is with the zero tolerance laws ... and zero tolerance people.

To be clear, I'm not offering an "everyone does it" defense. While I am skeptical that a majority of adults who drink alcohol have driven with a BAL over .08, as Pooh posted above, I did want to point out that almost all states have zero-tolerance laws for underage drinking, and I think those are absolutely ridiculous. It's just crazy that a 20 year old could be pulled over for a traffic violation, get arrested, and be convicted of a DUI with a .02 level.

Somehow now the misdemeanor offense of underage drinking got blown into a massively expensive, lifelong stigma. Maybe it's less absurd than having to register as a sex offender after getting a ticket for public urination, but it's still absurd.


The OP had a DUI two years before he started med school. Two years before I started med school, I was 20. I drank alcohol. Sometimes a whole bunch of it, which was moderately stupid, though I never ever drove anywhere. Yes, I was breaking the law. It's possible that on multiple occasions my level was .01 at 8 AM the morning after, and if I had driven to class and been stopped for a broken tail light, it would've been pgg posting the OP's post on some 1990s BBS version of SDN, wondering how it might affect my residency prospects.

If you're going to argue that a person who made an error six years ago and has had zero problems since - not only that, but has excelled in medical school in the meantime - is too high a risk for your program, geez, I think you're likely to miss out on some good applicants.

This is the problem with zero tolerance in any arena - it doesn't leave any room for reasonableness, or good judgment. It's too easy to say no and turn away. And it's harmful, because it gives people who really do have a substance abuse problem an obvious reason to avoid treatment for it.

The most compelling argument for allowing opiate-addicted anesthesiologists a path to return to practice is that it's safer than letting no one return, because if everyone knew it was a career ender, few would seek treatment, and more would work while impaired, for a longer time, until they hurt a patient or they're found dead. I think rigidly blacklisting everyone who ever got a DUI isn't just wrong, but harmful in itself.

 

[jw3600]

@pgg:

My personal experience (at the risk of outing myself): my sea daddy returned from a 13 month ICAF deployment only to be killed 4 days later by a murderer on his third DUI. The murderer had a valid DL.
.

Murder is a legal term. I understand that you had loss in this area of your life which I'm sorry about and I agree that person's actions are deplorable but you don't get to just use words with actual legal definitions all willy nilly because it fits your narrative.

Your position on the topic is not one I necessarily agree with but I don't think its unreasonable.

 

[WholeLottaGame7]

@pgg:
Would you take the same view about drunk pilots or drunk surgeons?

I understand and respect your viewpoint; hopefully my initial post was explanatory and not judgmental to those PDs that will end up holding it against someone.

Though I think your analogy about drunk pilots and drunk surgeons is misleading. Presumably, the OP is not an active alcoholic (though obviously none of us know for sure). He's not (and wasn't) a physician when this happened. Unless you think everyone that abused alcohol in college is an alcoholic, which is a bit of a stretch. If the incident happened in residency, or certainly if it happened again, I think we'd all be painting a different story.

We had someone a couple classes behind me get a DUI between the end of MS4 and intern year. Was told to not bother showing up, and I think it was the right decision.

 

[Man o War]

DO NOT DO THIS. Complete overkill.

Agreed, this would make it seem like you have some ongoing problem which it sounds like you do not. I'd be more concerned I think if I saw you were involved with the impaired physicians program than if you simply explained you were young and dumb. I think most of us can relate to that.

 

[Arch Guillotti]

IWe had someone a couple classes behind me get a DUI between the end of MS4 and intern year. Was told to not bother showing up, and I think it was the right decision.

That seems pretty harsh.

 

[propofolSTAT]

OP doesn't think it was that big a deal. He thought he was fine (of course he thought that how many times before).

@vector2: he said it's easy to get a DUI.

It IS easy. Growing up, we were all taught this .08 BAC garbage and "being under the limit." None of that matters in the real world and state laws vary considerably. In my state you can get arrested even after 1 drink and display no impairment. Yeah, you may fight the case and get the charges dropped eventually but it still an ordeal and then it's on you to prove your innocence. Look, I was young and naive. I thought I was fine after 3 drinks and waiting 3+ hours. I've since learned my lesson and have no desire to ever straddle that line again. I don't straddle any lines now and live my life very straight edged due to this experience. It's an unnecessary risk and a situation that was completely avoidable. And yes, it's also easy to not get a DUI too- just NEVER drive after drinking. I never said anything contrary. You're putting words in my mouth and trying to demonize me and I don't appreciate it.

I appreciate everyone's comments and support! ERAS was just sent out. Will definitely let the thread know how everything goes.

 

[WholeLottaGame7]

It IS easy. Growing up, we were all taught this .08 BAC garbage and "being under the limit." None of that matters in the real world and state laws vary considerably. In my state you can get arrested even after 1 drink and display no impairment. Yeah, you may fight the case and get the charges dropped eventually but it still an ordeal and then it's on you to prove your innocence. Look, I was young and naive. I thought I was fine after 3 drinks and waiting 3+ hours. I've since learned my lesson and have no desire to ever straddle that line again. I don't straddle any lines now and live my life very straight edged due to this experience. It's an unnecessary risk and a situation that was completely avoidable. And yes, it's also easy to not get a DUI too- just NEVER drive after drinking. I never said anything contrary. You're putting words in my mouth and trying to demonize me and I don't appreciate it.



Thanks, but I DO get how couples match works. We aren't doing the whole ranking without each other. Yes, somehow I found a beautiful intelligent girl that is somehow able to love me despite my past.

I understand where you are coming from. You clearly have your own personal experiences and some prejudices against me because of the past DUI. That's fine and totally expected and it makes sense that I am a riskier applicant. But if anything, I've used the incident to motivate me academically and I've learned a lot from the experience. I can say it has made me a much less judgemental person and more sensitive soul. It has inspired me to avoid all the unnecessary risks I see my classmates constantly take. I am always prepared for the worst case scenario. With all due respect, you make a lot of wrong assumptions about me and your zero tolerance policy would have made you miss out on a great candidate such as myself.

I appreciate everyone's comments and support! ERAS was just sent out. Will definitely let the thread know how everything goes.

My wife and I didn't have any red flags and we still ranked places without each other at the end of the list. It's just a hedge against the worst case scenario happening. If it happens, the other person can still scramble for a prelim spot in the city the other matches at.

Best of luck, let us know how it goes.

 

[WholeLottaGame7]

That seems pretty harsh.

Not as harsh as holding a college mistake from 6 years ago against someone who has a track record of sobriety since. This is a full-fledged MD who is entering a specialty where substance abuse has serious consequences and decision-making skills are prioritized.

I'm not saying this guy would never make it as an anesthesiologist; it's very possible it was also a one-off event and he'll be totally fine. But we won't know that for another 5-10 years.

As it turns out, he ended up switching into a different specialty and I think is doing fine.

 

[Psai]

My wife and I didn't have any red flags and we still ranked places without each other at the end of the list. It's just a hedge against the worst case scenario happening. If it happens, the other person can still scramble for a prelim spot in the city the other matches at.

Best of luck, let us know how it goes.

It makes no sense to not do it that way. If you were applying alone, that's basically your rank list. If you put every single combination available plus ranking without the other, that's equivalent to having 2 separate match lists. Not ranking places alone puts you at a disadvantage.

 

[WholeLottaGame7]

It makes no sense to not do it that way. If you were applying alone, that's basically your rank list. If you put every single combination available plus ranking without the other, that's equivalent to having 2 separate match lists. Not ranking places alone puts you at a disadvantage.

There were a lot of negatives in that post, but I think you were agreeing with me? The other thing I would add is if you're not prepared to be apart for a few years, don't rank combinations that are not geographically close.

 

[cleansocks]

"zero tolerance" for the label of DUI is especially wrong because there is no gradation of that label. Labeling someone with a DUI automatically as high risk is kind of like refusing to do a spinal on a patient with the label aortic stenosis without looking at valve area and other relavent history. Luckily AS has gradation. DUI's probably should too with how how terrible a stigma comes with it these days. It's pretty draconian to ruin someone's life forever for the scenario described by OP. Short term punishment, yes so that people learn their lesson and are scared straight. But forever? Pretty bleak world that paints. Especially in a world of physicians where compassion, empathy, and rehabilitation should be guiding principles.

 

[Goro]

I agree with my learned colleague to a degree. I'm willing to overlook a DUI when it occurred when someone is 17-19, becuase we were all young and stupid once. But someone who is 20 or older, or has > 1 offence, my Adcom is much, much likely to reject.

I also agree that drunk drivers kill families like mine.

Did you read the rest of my post?

Ok. I'm a prick. My friend is dead. Recidivism rates are 30%. People with prior DUIs are considerably more likely to kill people. OP doesn't think it was that big a deal. He thought he was fine (of course he thought that how many times before).

No one is perfect but I'd take people with histories of most petty crimes before this fundamentally selfish act. I'd much rather he was snorting coke in the club bathroom while pissing on a cops shoes (true story for an intern recently) than driving drunk.

http://www.cdc.gov/motorvehiclesafety/impaired_driving/impaired-drv_factsheet.html

Also, OP, you need to understand the way the couples match works. As long as she ranks everything without you after all the couples combos, her match won't be affected.

 

[propofolSTAT]

So I thought I'd update this thread now that interview season is winding down.

Surprisingly, I've received a lot of support from others who have matched successfully with a DUI. I appreciate this and for any others out there, know that you are not alone. It's something that people don't want to talk about or make publicly known, but this seems to a be a little more common than most people think. I've anguished over this mistake for years and have lost a lot of sleep in medical school thinking about the incident and what it means for my chances to match. My goal is to send some reassurance to others out there who are in a similar position. My advice is to use this mistake to propel your academics, keep the incident in your distant past, and I'm certain many places will overlook this.

I applied to 60+ places because of couples match and I have received 21 interview invitations so far! I'm still in the process of interviewing, but I can firmly state that the DUI seems to have been a non-issue for most, at least in respects to sending out interview invitations. I've even had interviews at a top 10 program, a few top 20 programs, and plenty in the top 40 (doximity rankings at least). Additionally, I've been relatively surprised that I have only been asked about the DUI in about two interviews so far, which were at lower tier places. Even those interviewers seemed to be pretty understanding and non judgmental.

That being said, there is no doubt in my mind that I have been screened out from quite a few places too. Some of my friends with significantly lower scores have gotten interviews at decent places that I did not. There could be a lot of reasons for this, but I suspect that my previous DUI is the culprit as I know some of my friends' applications pretty well. Looking at the SDN google doc, it seems like my yield of apps/interview is a bit lower than others with my scores.

Now, I can't say yet how this will affect their rank lists. Hell, they could all rank me last on their list as far as I know. However, overall, I can say that my DUI hasn't prevented me from interviewing at some really great places and having exceptional interview experiences. I'm pretty stoked about my rank list thus far and would be ecstatic about matching at any of my top 6 choices and pretty happy past my 10th choice, so my odds are decent. Obviously still anxious about where I'll fall on rank lists and where exactly I'll be matching, but I don't know anyone who isn't.

 

[NOsaintsfan]

.

 

[deleted171991]

Would you give this advice to someone arrested for a small amount of marijuana 17 years prior to applying for residency? Nothing before, or since this incident fwiw.

Apply especially in states where marijuana is legal for non-medical use; nobody will care. Even in the other states, only bigots will. (E.g. I haven't touched it in my life, and I couldn't care less that you did, as long as it wasn't something like a DUI. What matters is that you can show that you are responsible, and not an addict.)

This kind of crap should be automatically expunged after 5-10 years. I don't know why (a mostly Christian) society likes to label people for life for minor crimes.