Relative risk among age groups

[owlegrad]

(False dichotomy) I didn't create this thread to talk about relative risk among age groups. Happy to talk about it if you want on another thread that you can create.

So I am curious to get your thoughts on relative risk among age groups and their use as justification for mandates?

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[Bubba98]

I don't think there ever was a valid medical reason to push for a universal mandate.

 

[Rockinacoustic]

I don't think there ever was a valid medical reason to push for a universal mandate.

What would you have done differently?

 

[WorthlessOxygen]

I don't think there ever was a valid medical reason to push for a universal mandate.

Why? Do you not think it had valid population health benefits? Don't think the government should have that power even in a pandemic? Other reason?

 

[Rouelle]

I don't think there ever was a valid medical reason to push for a universal mandate.

Is your view on this limited specifically to mandates for Covid vaccines, or to all vaccines in general?

 

[owlegrad]

I don't think there ever was a valid medical reason to push for a universal mandate.

I appreciate the response even thought you declined to address the issue of the amount of risk present for people under 55yo.

Also I am curious if a global pandemic that killed millions of people isn’t a valid reason, what would be? Perhaps if the death toll were in the 10s of millions? 100s? A billion? Or perhaps you don’t believe there would ever be a valid reason for a mandate?

 

[Bubba98]

I appreciate the response even thought you declined to address the issue of the amount of risk present for people under 55yo.

Also I am curious if a global pandemic that killed millions of people isn’t a valid reason, what would be? Perhaps if the death toll were in the 10s of millions? 100s? A billion? Or perhaps you don’t believe there would ever be a valid reason for a mandate?

Negative health outcomes are stratified by age. Yes or yes? It has an animal vector. It's also airborne, extremely contagious and mutates quickly. The shot was experimental. All unlike polio. Being a good idea to get the shot and a universal mandate are two entirely different arguments.

 

[owlegrad]

We weren’t discussing vectors. If you want to bring up vectors start your own thread on vectors.

 

[Bubba98]

That's it? You tapped? With all those badges after your name I thought you had some 4th degree black belt in intelligent sounding BS. I will leave it at this. The threat of a mandate was simply a coercion tactic and any healthcare professional that gave it a thin veneer of medical legitimacy is a fraud.

 

[owlegrad]

I appreciate you coming out and staying your position. That makes for more interesting discussion imo.

In the spirit of fairness, I’ll do the same.

My position is this: I don’t really know what my position is. In my heart I think everyone who qualifies for a vaccine should get one. That’s different than saying that everyone who qualifies must get one. I suspect I basically support anything that encourages or increase the vaccination rate, be that mandates or more subtle means.

 

[WorthlessOxygen]

The threat of a mandate was simply a coercion tactic and any healthcare professional that gave it a thin veneer of medical legitimacy is a fraud.

It's not like anyone was actually forced to get the vaccine. You just had to elect not to partake in many pubic activities if you weren't willing to get it.

We were in a pandemic that was overwhelming our entire medical system. The vaccines did initially seem to slow the spread and, potentially more importantly, kept people from being unnecessarily hospitalized.

What exactly do you mean by coercion tactic? And how is there no medical legitimacy? The vaccines are safe, they're effective, they're in the interest of public (and personal) health.

 

[mentos]

It still baffles me how people in healthcare are against vaccines. I guess if there are hospital employees that smoke outside the entrance then I shouldn't be surprised anymore.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

It still baffles me how people in healthcare are against vaccines. I guess if there are hospital employees that smoke outside the entrance then I shouldn't be surprised anymore.

And even that you can say that they got addicted in their teens and haven't been able to quit.

 

[grumpyRph]

It still baffles me how people in healthcare are against vaccines. I guess if there are hospital employees that smoke outside the entrance then I shouldn't be surprised anymore.

cause people want to take a step back and critically think about the usefulness of a rushed vaccine for a politicized virus? just because people are against one vaccine doesn't mean they are against all. there's nuance to everything but the narrative is, every health care worker must support every vaccine ever invented and spoke of. it's funny how many healthy care workers just became big shills for the pharma companies when it's the same pharma companies that helped create an opioid crisis.

 

[Old Timer]

cause people want to take a step back and critically think about the usefulness of a rushed vaccine for a politicized virus? just because people are against one vaccine doesn't mean they are against all. there's nuance to everything but the narrative is, every health care worker must support every vaccine ever invented and spoke of. it's funny how many healthy care workers just became big shills for the pharma companies when it's the same pharma companies that helped create an opioid crisis.

Moderators:
You need to ban or sanction this person. He is a disgrace to the profession, He does nothing at all but spout ant-vax lies. You can be against mandates as a political view. For the record, the Federal Government does not have the power to authorize a vaccine mandate. The states, however do have the authority under our constitution to do so. As a pointed out in the other thread, vaccine mandates are as American as apple pie.

The vaccines are not experimental. The technology for mRNA vaccines is 20 years old. There have been other mRNA vaccines that did not make the market due to failure of efficacy, not safety. They were not rushed in nay way. All three phases of the vaccine research were carried out some were just done concurrently and not sequentially. It's easy to get enough data when you have a novel pathogen generating 100,000 infections a day. If you are against the new technology mRNA vaccines how about we mandate the Novavax vaccine. It's the same technology used in the Hepatitis vaccines.

The virus is not politicized except by people like you, It was a novel pathogen that has killed over 1 million Americans, over 260K of them under 65. It almost destroyed our economy and healthcare system. Hopefully, we wont see anything like this again in my lifetime. There is no nuance required here. Vaccination is the single greatest medical advance of our lifetime. To be against vaccination is simply
not scientific.. And yes, I am a shill for Big Pharma. I'm on my way to the bank to cash my royalty check. Just stick to things you know about. It appears science and US government and history are off the table for you too.

Stop with the straw man arguments. If the drug companies are evil, let's take them over by the government. I'm sure you would be the first to protest. The opiod crisis has nothing to do with this. Every pharmacist knows drug companies are evil as **** and greedy beyond all recognition. But, I still take their statins, so I don;t have a heart attack.

 

[Old Timer]

Negative health outcomes are stratified by age. Yes or yes? It has an animal vector. It's also airborne, extremely contagious and mutates quickly. The shot was experimental. All unlike polio. Being a good idea to get the shot and a universal mandate are two entirely different arguments.

1 million dead Americans, 6.5 million world wide. So you are in favor of **** the old? How many dead under 65 are acceptable to you? we are at 263K now and that is with vaccination.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

cause people want to take a step back and critically think about the usefulness of a rushed vaccine for a politicized virus? just because people are against one vaccine doesn't mean they are against all. there's nuance to everything but the narrative is, every health care worker must support every vaccine ever invented and spoke of. it's funny how many healthy care workers just became big shills for the pharma companies when it's the same pharma companies that helped create an opioid crisis.

We're shills because we support a vaccine that is shockingly effective with a surprisingly good safety record?

 

[Old Timer]

We're shills because we support a vaccine that is shockingly effective with a surprisingly good safety record?

That's us.....

 

[grumpyRph]

Moderators:
You need to ban or sanction this person. He is a disgrace to the profession, He does nothing at all but spout ant-vax lies. You can be against mandates as a political view. For the record, the Federal Government does not have the power to authorize a vaccine mandate. The states, however do have the authority under our constitution to do so. As a pointed out in the other thread, vaccine mandates are as American as apple pie.

The vaccines are not experimental. The technology for mRNA vaccines is 20 years old. There have been other mRNA vaccines that did not make the market due to failure of efficacy, not safety. They were not rushed in nay way. All three phases of the vaccine research were carried out some were just done concurrently and not sequentially. It's easy to get enough data when you have a novel pathogen generating 100,000 infections a day. If you are against the new technology mRNA vaccines how about we mandate the Novavax vaccine. It's the same technology used in the Hepatitis vaccines.

The virus is not politicized except by people like you, It was a novel pathogen that has killed over 1 million Americans, over 260K of them under 65. It almost destroyed our economy and healthcare system. Hopefully, we wont see anything like this again in my lifetime. There is no nuance required here. Vaccination is the single greatest medical advance of our lifetime. To be against vaccination is simply
not scientific.. And yes, I am a shill for Big Pharma. I'm on my way to the bank to cash my royalty check. Just stick to things you know about. It appears science and US government and history are off the table for you too.

Stop with the straw man arguments. If the drug companies are evil, let's take them over by the government. I'm sure you would be the first to protest. The opiod crisis has nothing to do with this. Every pharmacist knows drug companies are evil as **** and greedy beyond all recognition. But, I still take their statins, so I don;t have a heart attack.

So dramatic. There can’t be nuance u see? So risk profile , age, health conditions etc don’t need to be considered with Covid vax apparently . If you r human you need this vax ! Especially to enter in a restaurant or bar in california 2021-2022. Lol. Gimme a break.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

So dramatic. There can’t be nuance u see? So risk profile , age, health conditions etc don’t need to be considered with Covid vax apparently . If you r human you need this vax ! Especially to enter in a restaurant or bar in california 2021-2022. Lol. Gimme a break.

I mean, basically yes. To date I have seen no study that shows vaccine complications are more common compared to the same complications from having covid.

 

[Old Timer]

So dramatic. There can’t be nuance u see? So risk profile , age, health conditions etc don’t need to be considered with Covid vax apparently . If you r human you need this vax ! Especially to enter in a restaurant or bar in california 2021-2022. Lol. Gimme a break.

What do you mean by nuance? Just show me the data that leads you to believe that. And be polite enough to answer my questions. How many dead Americans under 65 will be enough for you to vaccinate? The 260+K that have died so far is not enough. How many? 400K, 500K. Just want to know how many human lives your convenience is worth?

 

[RXDOC1986]

It's so sad to see so much discord, even amongst educated health care professionals, throughout this world wide Epidemic period. Only here in the USA has this issue been so politicized and so polarized as to masking and vaccines. We have the highest rates of infection and deaths due to all the idiots in this country that look at it as a political football. What should have brought a nation together, has tore it apart. Costing many lives.
We are still arguing about the science and personal freedoms. We are certainly doomed on the next Pandemic go around. It's coming!

 

[Old Timer]

It's so sad to see so much discord, even amongst educated health care professionals, throughout this world wide Epidemic period. Only here in the USA has this issue been so politicized and so polarized as to masking and vaccines. We have the highest rates of infection and deaths due to all the idiots in this country that look at it as a political football. What should have brought a nation together, has tore it apart. Costing many lives.
We are still arguing about the science and personal freedoms. We are certainly doomed on the next Pandemic go around. It's coming!

The thing is, I understand the argument from the POV of the founders worry over the power of the Federal Government. I appreciate the idea of individual liberty. It is a strong argument. What I detest with every fiber of my being is healthcare professionals denying simple scientific truth and picking up the mantle on anti-vaxers.

 

[lord999]

It's not like anyone was actually forced to get the vaccine. You just had to elect not to partake in many pubic activities if you weren't willing to get it.

We were in a pandemic that was overwhelming our entire medical system. The vaccines did initially seem to slow the spread and, potentially more importantly, kept people from being unnecessarily hospitalized.

What exactly do you mean by coercion tactic? And how is there no medical legitimacy? The vaccines are safe, they're effective, they're in the interest of public (and personal) health.

No, essential Civil Service was forced to get it with criminal penalties attached for noncompliance. You couldn't even resign to avoid it. There were quite a number of us who protested in writing but took it anyway as Title 42 has those provisions under Biosecurity. We signed up for the work, so it's what it is.

I protested under how little either the initial or upcoming Omicron boosters were tested prior to the mandate while under an EUA and not regular approval. I wasn't harmed from it, but they still are not tested to the degree that we expect vaccines to be approved under. The Omicron was emergency approved without human testing data committed.

As for risk stratification, did you ever get a Rabies vaccine without a bite exposure? Probably not (only vets and others who endemic exposures warrant the risk get it) and the vaccine is safe and effective. The reason why is that the Rabies vaccine isn't all that safe, but choosing between likely death and a not super safe vaccine, is there a choice? But for the general populace, the adverse event rate is too high for general population inoculation, the effectiveness is not in question. So, I do not feel all vaccines are universal even if uncontroversial in effectiveness, they need to be evaluated on a case basis.

For this one, institutionalized including prisoners and the military seem reasonable. The elderly are reasonable. Pediatrics is a tossup due to even baseline effectiveness, and beneath two is openly questionable given the mixed experience. We'll learn, but to mandate before good science, we hope we're right.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

No, essential Civil Service was forced to get it with criminal penalties attached for noncompliance. You couldn't even resign to avoid it. There were quite a number of us who protested in writing but took it anyway as Title 42 has those provisions under Biosecurity. We signed up for the work, so it's what it is.

I protested under how little either the initial or upcoming Omicron boosters were tested prior to the mandate while under an EUA and not regular approval. I wasn't harmed from it, but they still are not tested to the degree that we expect vaccines to be approved under. The Omicron was emergency approved without human testing data committed.

As for risk stratification, did you ever get a Rabies vaccine without a bite exposure? Probably not (only vets and others who endemic exposures warrant the risk get it) and the vaccine is safe and effective. The reason why is that the Rabies vaccine isn't all that safe, but choosing between likely death and a not super safe vaccine, is there a choice? But for the general populace, the adverse event rate is too high for general population inoculation, the effectiveness is not in question. So, I do not feel all vaccines are universal even if uncontroversial in effectiveness, they need to be evaluated on a case basis.

For this one, institutionalized including prisoners and the military seem reasonable. The elderly are reasonable. Pediatrics is a tossup due to even baseline effectiveness, and beneath two is openly questionable given the mixed experience. We'll learn, but to mandate before good science, we hope we're right.

You do realize that we don't test each new flu vaccine every year, right?

 

[WorthlessOxygen]

No, essential Civil Service was forced to get it with criminal penalties attached for noncompliance. You couldn't even resign to avoid it. There were quite a number of us who protested in writing but took it anyway as Title 42 has those provisions under Biosecurity. We signed up for the work, so it's what it is.

Ok so I did say that no one was forced to get the shot, which was apparently wrong. I did mean anyone in the general public since stepping outside of that will bring in a bunch of caveats.

Your niche is still interesting: who qualifies as essential Civil Service? I was told while onboarding for my new (federal) job that the covid vaccines would likely be required but they never were.

I protested under how little either the initial or upcoming Omicron boosters were tested prior to the mandate while under an EUA and not regular approval.

I don't know that I was ever completely swayed by the EUA vs regular approval argument but what really annoys me is that many of the people arguing there still refused the vaccine after full approval.

What more testing would you have wanted? Would anything short of full approval have satisfied you?

As for risk stratification, did you ever get a Rabies vaccine without a bite exposure? Probably not (only vets and others who endemic exposures warrant the risk get it) and the vaccine is safe and effective. The reason why is that the Rabies vaccine isn't all that safe, but choosing between likely death and a not super safe vaccine, is there a choice? But for the general populace, the adverse event rate is too high for general population inoculation, the effectiveness is not in question. So, I do not feel all vaccines are universal even if uncontroversial in effectiveness, they need to be evaluated on a case basis.

While it's an interesting example, I'm not sure how this relates here? I'd argue that anyone generally interacting with the public was likely to be exposed to covid during the pandemic so even if we do draw parallels from covid to rabies my main takeaway is that we should be willing to accept a higher than normal adverse event rate?

 

[Old Timer]

I protested under how little either the initial or upcoming Omicron boosters were tested prior to the mandate while under an EUA and not regular approval. I wasn't harmed from it, but they still are not tested to the degree that we expect vaccines to be approved under. The Omicron was emergency approved without human testing data committed.

As for risk stratification, did you ever get a Rabies vaccine without a bite exposure? Probably not (only vets and others who endemic exposures warrant the risk get it) and the vaccine is safe and effective. The reason why is that the Rabies vaccine isn't all that safe, but choosing between likely death and a not super safe vaccine, is there a choice? But for the general populace, the adverse event rate is too high for general population inoculation, the effectiveness is not in question. So, I do not feel all vaccines are universal even if uncontroversial in effectiveness, they need to be evaluated on a case basis.

For this one, institutionalized including prisoners and the military seem reasonable. The elderly are reasonable. Pediatrics is a tossup due to even baseline effectiveness, and beneath two is openly questionable given the mixed experience. We'll learn, but to mandate before good science, we hope we're right.

Your arguments are silly:
While people were dying, hospital's being over-run, the economy crumbling and you think the EUA was premature? If these 2 graphs do not show the wisdom of approving and using these vaccines, you are either blind or willfully ignorant.

 

[Old Timer]

No, essential Civil Service was forced to get it with criminal penalties attached for noncompliance. You couldn't even resign to avoid it. There were quite a number of us who protested in writing but took it anyway as Title 42 has those provisions under Biosecurity. We signed up for the work, so it's what it is.

I protested under how little either the initial or upcoming Omicron boosters were tested prior to the mandate while under an EUA and not regular approval. I wasn't harmed from it, but they still are not tested to the degree that we expect vaccines to be approved under. The Omicron was emergency approved without human testing data committed.

As for risk stratification, did you ever get a Rabies vaccine without a bite exposure? Probably not (only vets and others who endemic exposures warrant the risk get it) and the vaccine is safe and effective. The reason why is that the Rabies vaccine isn't all that safe, but choosing between likely death and a not super safe vaccine, is there a choice? But for the general populace, the adverse event rate is too high for general population inoculation, the effectiveness is not in question. So, I do not feel all vaccines are universal even if uncontroversial in effectiveness, they need to be evaluated on a case basis.

For this one, institutionalized including prisoners and the military seem reasonable. The elderly are reasonable. Pediatrics is a tossup due to even baseline effectiveness, and beneath two is openly questionable given the mixed experience. We'll learn, but to mandate before good science, we hope we're right.

The rabbis vaccine analogy is weaker that Popeye before is spinach. There were 89 rabies deaths in the US from 1960-2018. There were 25 casses in the last 10 years. That is what you want to compare to novel respiratory pathogen that causes 1 million deaths in the last 3 years. No, they are not close to the same. The risk is so many orders of magnitude different.

Since anyone can get and spread the disease it is wise to vaccinate everyone. Since we succumbed to the anti-vax, anti-science lies we had one of the worst responses and clearly the worst response in the developed world

This is where the risk stratification, I don't need it, I'm young, protect the vulnerable got us. Not only did plenty of young people die, they brought it home and killed their parents and grandparents. Well done.....

 

[grumpyRph]

we get it old timer. you're a covid enthusiast. you also have to believe all those stats are even true and believe covid testing was accurate, and you have to decide what counts as a covid death, if it's from or with.

i don't care what stats you can come up with and make your own interpretations from, just to make yourself feel good. you keep posting that graph of covid deaths and when vaccination began, well, deaths were already on their way down when mass vaccination was taking place. it's just a natural wave of the virus.

it's ok to look back on the pandemic and realize it was one big overreaction. that's not anti-vax. before the vax came out, you had democrats saying out loud they were skeptical of the "Trump vax." so don't sit there and police everyone who is skeptical of how all this is playing out.

vax came out and we were told this is effective and the end. nope. then boosters. then more and more boosters. it's evolving. it's evolving right now. so don't act like a know-it-all and judge someone for having a skeptic mind.

funny how you had to turn on the news to even know a pandemic was happening. can we just move on from this media-created crisis?

 

[WorthlessOxygen]

funny how you had to turn on the news to even know a pandemic was happening.

Your overall post has way more than I really care to get into, but what do you mean by this?

Are you trying to say you don't know anyone who had it and was hospitalized/died?

I had several family members in the hospital with it. One fairly young family member (~50 years old) in the ICU. Several older family members/family friends died. Short of completely ignoring what was going on in my community it would have been pretty hard to miss.

 

[grumpyRph]

Your overall post has way more than I really care to get into, but what do you mean by this?

Are you trying to say you don't know anyone who had it and was hospitalized/died?

I had several family members in the hospital with it. One fairly young family member (~50 years old) in the ICU. Several older family members/family friends died. Short of completely ignoring what was going on in my community it would have been pretty hard to miss.

yeah i also had a friend crying to me he was in the hospital with covid but he actually was on a alcohol bender and then was having withdrawals. and he just so happened had covid and he legitimately tried to tell me he was hospitalized b/c of covid lol.

i'm not trying to deny there are sad cases of illness. but also before 2020,there was never a death tracker on cnn for months and months of any other illness. It's one thing to be cautious of a respiratory illness like we all have been before, it's another thing to go into full on mass hysteria, overreaction, shutting down the world all in the name of politics.

 

[WorthlessOxygen]

yeah i also had a friend crying to me he was in the hospital with covid but he actually was on a alcohol bender and then was having withdrawals. and he just so happened had covid and he legitimately tried to tell me he was hospitalized b/c of covid lol.

i'm not trying to deny there are sad cases of illness. but also before 2020,there was never a death tracker on cnn for months and months of any other illness. It's one thing to be cautious of a respiratory illness like we all have been before, it's another thing to go into full on mass hysteria, overreaction, shutting down the world all in the name of politics.

Honestly I don't know what I expected. If you're going to insist on being wilfully ignorant there's no use in continuing this.

 

[gyngyn]

Someone has been relieved of the burden of membership due to a persistent inability to post in a civil manner and treat those with differing opinions with the respect that they wish for themselves.

 

[owlegrad]

Oh geez it’s probably bad form to reply to someone who has been banned since they can’t reply…but I just have to say that it’s nuts to me to claim that the problem with Covid is that the deaths are tracked too closely. That has strong “too many tests” energy.

It’s like…maybe there is a reason Covid deaths were tracked closely and maybe, just maybe, that reason wasn’t political? Maybe it’s because we are in a pandemic? Maybe you’ve got it the wrong way round?

 

[WorthlessOxygen]

but I just have to say that it’s nuts to me to claim that the problem with Covid is that the deaths are tracked too closely. That has strong “too many tests” energy.

The thing that gets me is overall US death rates were higher than pre-covid, average life expectancy fell, etc. There's so much showing that covid was very likely contributing to higher mortality and yet people still want to get into bull**** like "dying with covid vs dying from covid"

And of course people spouting off about how things are too politicized want to repeat political talking points instead of looking at the freely available data.

 

[Dred Pirate]

funny how you had to turn on the news to even know a pandemic was happening. can we just move on from this media-created crisis?

I mean the refridgerated semi trailer full of dead bodies I walked by every day to my car after work was enough for me. I didn't have to watch the news for that one.

 

[Dred Pirate]

The thing that gets me is overall US death rates were higher than pre-covid, average life expectancy fell, etc. There's so much showing that covid was very likely contributing to higher mortality and yet people still want to get into bull**** like "dying with covid vs dying from covid"

In 2020 there were 500k more deaths than in 2019 and 2018 - so roughly 500k excess deaths. Where all of those from covid? of course not, but many/most were. Or those that died early from other conditions because the healthcare system was overrun and stressed.

 

[Old Timer]

we get it old timer. you're a covid enthusiast. you also have to believe all those stats are even true and believe covid testing was accurate, and you have to decide what counts as a covid death, if it's from or with.

i don't care what stats you can come up with and make your own interpretations from, just to make yourself feel good. you keep posting that graph of covid deaths and when vaccination began, well, deaths were already on their way down when mass vaccination was taking place. it's just a natural wave of the virus.

it's ok to look back on the pandemic and realize it was one big overreaction. that's not anti-vax. before the vax came out, you had democrats saying out loud they were skeptical of the "Trump vax." so don't sit there and police everyone who is skeptical of how all this is playing out.

vax came out and we were told this is effective and the end. nope. then boosters. then more and more boosters. it's evolving. it's evolving right now. so don't act like a know-it-all and judge someone for having a skeptic mind.

funny how you had to turn on the news to even know a pandemic was happening. can we just move on from this media-created crisis?

I saw this in the morning before work and couldn't respond. I was going to suggest you be banned, but they beat me to it. In case any of you wonder what is wrong with the profession or with the country, this post is it. The founders of this nation wanted and informed citizenry that would vigorously debate the issues of the day. This post is what they were afraid of demagoguery. We can argue what the facts mean. We cannot argue what the facts are. This is a just sad......

 

[BidingMyTime]

It still baffles me how people in healthcare are against vaccines. I guess if there are hospital employees that smoke outside the entrance then I shouldn't be surprised anymore.

Are there still hospitals that allow employees to smoke? All the hospitals in my area and surrounding areas, completely ban nicotine use among employees. Prospective employeees are tested, and if positive for nicotine, they aren't hired.

And I agree, I don't understand how anyone in healthcare can be against vaccines. Or how they could deny that COVID is a major problem.

 

[BidingMyTime]

i'm not trying to deny there are sad cases of illness. but also before 2020,there was never a death tracker on cnn for months and months of any other illness. It's one thing to be cautious of a respiratory illness like we all have been before, it's another thing to go into full on mass hysteria, overreaction, shutting down the world all in the name of politics.

And that is because in the recent past pre-2020, there were no infectious diseases in the US causing a huge rate of morbidity and mortality in the under 65 age group. And I can imagine like many deniers you would argue that "only" 250,000 or so under the age of 65 died of COVID, ignoring the fact that number is huge compared to other infectious disease (like an average of 6,000 under 65'ers dying of influenza each year.) Plus long covid and organ damage from COVID or its sequelae causing a huge amount of disability in the under 65'er's. Covid deniers tend to whine about how "nobody wants to work" anymore, ignoring the reality that Covid has taken out hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of the working age population via death or disability. The only people making this political are the deniers who ignore the actual facts, to pretend like one political party is just making it all up.

 

[RXDOC1986]

2020-2021 worked as a travel pharmacist, on assignment, in an ALL-COVID hospital in S. Georgia. We were part of a 650-bed Regional Health Center (but in a 250-bed hospital). Designated All Covid, All the time. We had over 75 ICU beds with patients transferred in 24 hrs a day. At any time of day or night you would have 1-2 ambulances coming in and 1-2 Funeral Home Mini-vans exiting. It was more like a MASH unit than a regular hospital. We were batching NEO/Norepi / Epi / Vasopressin drips 75 - 100 bags at a time. NMBA's and Fent/Versed drips dispensed like candy. At any one time 6-7 ICU patients on CRRT. 50 patients on Ventilators.
On most days, we would have various church groups, non-profits, Corp., etc. providing food and drinks outside during 7pm shift change. We got standing ovation as we left for our cars. Lots of praise and free snacks.
Well, one day we got a few hundred protesters picketing, blocking us in the parking lot. Anti vaccers shouting my body my choice. As if we were responsible for vaccine mandates!!!! A real zoo. State police escort coming in, National Guard around. These were true imbeciles, protesting vaccines where 200-300 of their friends and families were dying inside due to no vaccination.
The whole scene was unreal.

made a ship load of money, helped people and left!!!!

 

[WorthlessOxygen]

Are there still hospitals that allow employees to smoke? All the hospitals in my area and surrounding areas, completely ban nicotine use among employees. Prospective employeees are tested, and if positive for nicotine, they aren't hired.

I've heard of hospitals doing this but none in my area test for nicotine.

 

[mentos]

Are there still hospitals that allow employees to smoke? All the hospitals in my area and surrounding areas, completely ban nicotine use among employees. Prospective employeees are tested, and if positive for nicotine, they aren't hired.

And I agree, I don't understand how anyone in healthcare can be against vaccines. Or how they could deny that COVID is a major problem.

They go outside the entrance to smoke on their breaks. You're not supposed to smoke within 20ft or so of a building but everyone does and you have to hold your breathe as you walk in.

 

[gyngyn]

They go outside the entrance to smoke on their breaks. You're not supposed to smoke within 20ft or so of a building but everyone does and you have to hold your breathe as you walk in.

This will buy you a trip to HR at my hospital...