Research: How important is it really? And how much is enough?

[empty p orbital]

So by the end of the summer I will have been a research assistant in an EEG lab working 10 hrs/week for 16 weeks. My plan was to continue doing 10 hrs/week during the fall and spring semesters at least until I apply next summer. But I read something someone posted today that said basically unless you are planning on applying to an MD/PhD program, medical schools don't really care much about research experience at all.

I am working, going to school full-time, doing this research, and trying to volunteer and shadow all at the same time. I just can't do as much of everything as I'd like to. If I stopped doing research after this summer and just settled with my 4 months worth, I could probably double the number of hours I would shadow this fall. Another possibility would be to do less research (maybe only 5 hrs /week) and that would free up an afternoon for shadowing each week.

I enjoy research a lot, and love problem solving and understanding things on a very logical and academic level. But I'm probably not interested in any MD/PhD programs... just a good ole' MD from a non-top-10 school.

From a perspective of trying to make as strong an applicant as possible out of me, what advice do you all have?

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[NotAsking4Much]

Research is overrated.

I feel like it's the new "volunteer at library" position for high-schoolers. Unless you get publications, a stellar rec, etc - it's just saying - "Hi - I was a lab monkey for two years."

You don't need research to get into med school, but it's good to have at least a short experience (doesn't even have to be science related) to show you can think analytically.

That being said - Do it if you enjoy it. Don't do it if you don't. If you don't, spend the time on doing something else you really do enjoy and make it work for you in the future.

 

[kashmirvie]

Actually this is a question I have myself. I'll say the truth, I know research is important...but I don't really care for it! I enjoy community service and shadowing way too much to consider working in a lab, which I tried and sucked for me. I'm from PR, I have a 30Q MCAT and 3.8 GPA, shadowing and community service experiences...yet I feel my lack of research is holding me back for applying to US schools. Advice?

 

[zinciest]

Is it okay to just have a summer long research experience? I was involved in a very short field research project, so I saw that component of it through. No pubs. Is that adequate for non MD/Phd?

 

[golfman]

Research is overrated.

You don't need research to get into med school, but it's good to have at least a short experience (doesn't even have to be science related) to show you can think analytically.

I hate research more than anybody, but a few medical schools (well, I only know of 1, the one I attend) REQUIRE that you have at least put in some research hours.

 

[NotAsking4Much]

Actually this is a question I have myself. I'll say the truth, I know research is important...but I don't really care for it! I enjoy community service and shadowing way too much to consider working in a lab, which I tried and sucked for me. I'm from PR, I have a 30Q MCAT and 3.8 GPA, shadowing and community service experiences...yet I feel my lack of research is holding me back for applying to US schools. Advice?

Is it okay to just have a summer long research experience? I was involved in a very short field research project, so I saw that component of it through. No pubs. Is that adequate for non MD/Phd?

For both these questions - do a bit of research, you don't need much. Just something where you can show you learned something, made an impact, and showed analytical and critical thinking in that AMCAS blurb.

You will need something to balance it out. Maybe you're really interested in volunteering, then you'll need to be more exceptional and invested than other students.
Personally, research was the most boring thing ever for me too...so I totally empathize.

 

[ThaliaNox]

Research is one of those things that is completely what you make of it. A solid recommendation from a PI can go a long way in affirming that you're hard working, adaptable and capable of self-motivation. Simply going to a summer 8 week program with no LOR or publication isn't going to make much of an impact on your application.

Not everyone has research. However, most medical students have done some research and those who haven't are stronger in other areas. Also keep in mind that standards go up every year as far as what is expected because the cohorts of applicants every year have done more in terms of ECs. Ask a 40 year old doctor what was expected of pre-meds when he applied, and then ask a 60 or 70 year old doc. Times change!

 

[Narmerguy]

Research is overrated.

I feel like it's the new "volunteer at library" position for high-schoolers. Unless you get publications, a stellar rec, etc - it's just saying - "Hi - I was a lab monkey for two years."

You don't need research to get into med school, but it's good to have at least a short experience (doesn't even have to be science related) to show you can think analytically.

That being said - Do it if you enjoy it. Don't do it if you don't. If you don't, spend the time on doing something else you really do enjoy and make it work for you in the future.

I agree that it has in a lot of ways become similar to the "volunteer at library" position that you referred to. However, I disagree that it providing a meaningful boost is dependent on an amazing letter of recommendation or a publication--it's difficult for anyone to expect a publication even of students that give significant contributions to their teams.

I agree with your second point. Research is not needed and I do wish that fewer people would clog up research teams and waste professors' time when there is no starting interest in research and when there is no intention of actually considering research as a career.

I agree also with your final point. Don't do it because you think it's "required" or because it'll make you look good. Doing something else that you actually do care about and doing it well is a lot more helpful in most cases. However, I know there are students for whom the only things they're actually interested in would never be valued by anyone but their fraternity--in which case I recommend just doing the research and faking it like half the other applicants. Can't win em all I suppose, better to be realistic than stupid.

 

[pelliper]

Depends what kind of medical school you're trying to get into. For the vast majority of schools, deep research experiences are good but not essential. For the "Top 20" schools though, in depth research experience is a must. This makes sense since the US news ranking is based on research dollars, and thus the schools that are research focused are looking for research focused undergrads.

 

[Narmerguy]

Depends what kind of medical school you're trying to get into. For the vast majority of schools, deep research experiences are good but not essential. For the "Top 20" schools though, in depth research experience is a must. This makes sense since the US news ranking is based on research dollars, and thus the schools that are research focused are looking for research focused undergrads.

Actually this is not true. I'm not saying that it doesn't commonly help students to have in depth research experience, however, there are plenty of students that get in with only a light level of exposure to research. Similarly, a percentage of students get in to these schools every year with absolutely no research experience at all (I'm not sure the % but I remember that at harvard it was something like 15% or something like that). And that's absolutely zero experience. Plenty of applicants have only one or two semesters. I imagine this is more prevalant as one goes down the rankings save a few cases (I think Stanford is a school that really wants its applicants to have research experience in addition to a few other top schools.

Don't feel pidgeon-holed into doing research. It's not exactly a novel activity and you can stand out in other ways.

 

[kashmirvie]

Does anyone know schools that are weaker in regards to research? How do I know if one school is primary care oriented or not?

 

[AllDay24]

Hey guys, sorry to bump this thread, but I'd appreciate it if you could help evaluate my plan for research experience. I do not like research, especially compared to clinical work. But I go to a top university, and though my chances are slim, I'm aiming for a top 10 medical school, so I feel as though I need to have at least a decent amount of research, as these schools are research institutions. Would this research be enough? (see below)

1. Biology Lab Research Assistant (summer 2010, 20 hrs/week) - finishing up now, can continue, but don't want to
2. Cancer Center Research Assistant (summer 2010-2012, 4 hrs/week) - I started this summer, will continue for next two summers
3. Some sort of clinical research (summer 2011, ~30-40 hrs/week) - I plan to do research again next summer, this time clinical.

I don't anticipate any publications or presentations, by the way.

Would this be enough research for it not to be a weakness on my application to top medical schools? I'd be 100% happy with any med school, but I want to put my best foot forward and not close doors to top schools. That being said, I don't think research needs to be my strong point at all.

 

[IvyHopeful20]

If I was an adcom, I'd want at least some research experience. You are going to be a physician - you should have some idea on how new knowledge is generated. It doesn't have to be much.

If you want to be an academic physician, or a physician scientist, then obviously 2+ years of research is recommended.

However, the adcoms don't seem to see it as much of a requirement as the other ECs (clinical volunteering, etc) as most physicians don't stay in academia and don't become researchers.

So I would say get it if you can, but not if it means neglecting other things. However, the higher up the school in the research rankings, the more likely it is that research will be a requirement rather than a "nice to have."

 

[HSUReddie]

Most of you have said research isn't necessary, but it'd be worth mentioning in the AMCAS. Would it matter if the research you did wasn't medical? For instance, I'm currently involved in research on the degradation of coral reefs in Panama. In the past, my prof and the involved students have published and presented a poster at the 11th International Coral Reef Symposium - and he said we would probably submit our abstract for the 12th ICRS as well. I go to a smaller school so research opportunities are kind of slim when it comes to subject, but at the same time marine biology has kind of become a second passion of mine. Would they judge that as I should have found projects more suited to my career - or - just be satisfied that I had completed some sort of undergraduate research?

I'm also debating what to do next summer. I've narrowed it down to two options. Option 1) Medical undergraduate research programs/internships. Option 2) Medical, HIV/AIDS education, etc. volunteer/internship position abroad, preferably in Africa. Would one look better than the other on my application? I'm ultimately aiming for Tulane's dual MD/MPH&TM program.

 

[NP545]

Is one summer of 30 hrs/week research for 3 months enough without a rec letter or publication? Just want to finish the med school "requirement" I have no interest in research beyond that

 

[NP545]

Simply going to a summer 8 week program with no LOR or publication isn't going to make much of an impact on your application.!

Would this be worth it for someone who is not interested in research rather than doing it during the school year? I won't get published or a LOR, but have an opportunity to do research full time over the summer

 

[wanderer]

Is one summer of 30 hrs/week research for 3 months enough without a rec letter or publication? Just want to finish the med school "requirement" I have no interest in research beyond that

Enough for what? It won't have a major impact on your application. Probably fine for schools that don't care about research but highly ranked schools will want to see other things on your app.

 

[Psai]

Don't do research if you're not interested in the research itself or the process. No one wants to see a cookie cutter who does things just because they're required with no interest. They will sniff it out in the interviews. Spend your time doing things you want to do. It's not about the time you spend doing it but what you accomplish. I remember being a premed and thinking about how I needed to do a certain amount of volunteering and this and that. It's all crap. No one cares if you do 100 hours or 1000. It's about what you learned from the experience.

 

[NP545]

Don't do research if you're not interested in the research itself or the process. No one wants to see a cookie cutter who does things just because they're required with no interest. They will sniff it out in the interviews. Spend your time doing things you want to do. It's not about the time you spend doing it but what you accomplish. I remember being a premed and thinking about how I needed to do a certain amount of volunteering and this and that. It's all crap. No one cares if you do 100 hours or 1000. It's about what you learned from the experience.

How many research hours did you have when you got in? And would it be fine if I replaced the 400 summer research hours with 200 from additional hospital volunteering? How does it look with 0 research hours on an app?

 

[Nearby]

I have a few questions.

When do most people start research in undergrad, and if they are able to their 1st or 2nd year, will they have enough scientific knowledge to be useful?
Like If I start 1st year, I will only be taking general intro science classes, I don't know how I will be useful in the research then.

 

[BPM]

I have a few questions.

When do most people start research in undergrad, and if they are able to their 1st or 2nd year, will they have enough scientific knowledge to be useful?
Like If I start 1st year, I will only be taking general intro science classes, I don't know how I will be useful in the research then.

I'm in my second year and have already started doing research. I think most people start around the end of 2nd year

 

[Lucca]

How many research hours did you have when you got in? And would it be fine if I replaced the 400 summer research hours with 200 from additional hospital volunteering? How does it look with 0 research hours on an app?

So did you just not read @Psai 's post at all before replying? It doesn't matter. Do what you will enjoy the most, do what you will learn from the most.

 

[phunky]

The MSAR lists the percent of students who did non-medical volunteering, medical volunteering, and research for each school. Most schools actually have a higher percentage of their class participating in research than either type of volunteering. Seems to be very important to a lot of schools these days.

 

[phunky]

Undergrad research is important since it shows medical schools, who are no doubt looking for research students, that applicants are familiar with research. Obviously the techniques are going to differ, but they like to see that applicants know the process of research, lab etiquette, what a journal is, etc.

Even if you're not going to be a researcher, it's important to be able to understand other peoples research so that you can stay up to date in your field. I feel like I can read academic papers much more thoroughly having written some than if I never had.

 

[Espadaleader]

Research is required for medical school. When 80% or more of most ppl have it at most schools per MSAR I wouldn't argue otherwise even though someone will.