Residencies and Cost of Living

[FranzLO]

Just out of curiosity, which programs considered to be highly regarded (I know some factors are arbitrary but lets say Top 20) but have a relatively low cost of living? Quality of training is of course important but a lot of great programs look like they may be in expensive areas. I would guess some of the ones in the midwest, maybe UPitt (a dream match though) would be a little cheaper? I am most curious about programs in the midwest but I would not be opposed to NYC, east coast, west coast, if I was fortunate to interview at high quality programs.

I just wasn't sure what residents' experiences were like and how much of a difference there is and other related factors. Does anyone have an opinion on how much more highly regarded a program should be to be willing to pay much more to live there (other factors aside)? I am not a big fan of talking about rankings but the cost of living is something that is crossing my mind.

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[Dharma]

Find a program you like. Pop the city into this: http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/ Even allows you to compare cities. Midwest looking pretty nice to me these days.

Obviously cheap = NOT NYC, SF, LA, Boston, Chicago, etc.

 

[FranzLO]

Huh. That is awesome. Thanks going to check it out!

 

[wolfvgang22]

Southwest region and Texas is generally low cost of living also.

 

[SmallBird]

Just out of curiosity, which programs considered to be highly regarded (I know some factors are arbitrary but lets say Top 20) but have a relatively low cost of living? Quality of training is of course important but a lot of great programs look like they may be in expensive areas. I would guess some of the ones in the midwest, maybe UPitt (a dream match though) would be a little cheaper? I am most curious about programs in the midwest but I would not be opposed to NYC, east coast, west coast, if I was fortunate to interview at high quality programs.

I just wasn't sure what residents' experiences were like and how much of a difference there is and other related factors. Does anyone have an opinion on how much more highly regarded a program should be to be willing to pay much more to live there (other factors aside)? I am not a big fan of talking about rankings but the cost of living is something that is crossing my mind.

Two other points to consider:
1) Programs in more expensive areas often pay much more.
2) Cost of living calculators may not always be that helpful. For example, I live in CT, and technically my PGY-3 stipend which is just over $70k has buying power closer to what $50k would have in Atlanta. But since I bought a house here, and food costs basically the same, and I don't pay for things like services/education/child care etc I think that difference is overstated, and I'd rather take the $70k and live here. On the other hand if you are in New York and are looking at $2000 rent vs $1000 in a less expensive area, that makes a big difference.

 

[Dharma]

Huh. That is awesome. Thanks going to check it out!

I actually the posted the wrong link! This one is better. Both links provide information beyond a generalized COL number; should be able to see differences in food, rent, utilities, etc.

http://www.bestplaces.net

 

[Monocles]

Two other points to consider:
1) Programs in more expensive areas often pay much more.
2) Cost of living calculators may not always be that helpful. For example, I live in CT, and technically my PGY-3 stipend which is just over $70k has buying power closer to what $50k would have in Atlanta. But since I bought a house here, and food costs basically the same, and I don't pay for things like services/education/child care etc I think that difference is overstated, and I'd rather take the $70k and live here. On the other hand if you are in New York and are looking at $2000 rent vs $1000 in a less expensive area, that makes a big difference.

Your PGY-3 stipend is 70k?!?!

 

[wannabie]

I don't think cost of living can be filtered into a few variables. The reason the cost of living is higher in major cities is because they provide a lifestyle many people desire. The real question you should be asking yourself: "does the cost of living in ___ give me the appropriate utility?" I interviewed at a few rural programs where the monetary cost of living was miniscule. Despite them being better educational opportunities, I chose not to go to them because living elsewhere gave me significantly better opportunities for social and personal development. That's not even including other side benefits like having access to fantastic bars, restaurants, and sporting events--and being near an international airport that has direct flights to EVERYWHERE.

(Also, according to the websites provided above, Pittsburgh seems to have a higher cost of living than Baltimore, Los Angeles, Chicago, Minneapolis, and most smaller cities.)

I understand you probably have loans to pay off. I'm not trying to minimize economic costs. It's just that there's a cost to not living life the way you want. I'm just trying to give you some food for thought. If you're the sort of person who will capitalize on everything a more expensive city has to offer, then you should totally consider it. I figure I'm not going to be twenty-six again. I may as well maximize my experiences. #YOLO

 

[deleted314290]

Your residency training will be relatively similar no matter where you end up, the end product will be solely be a result of the effort you put in. Having extra buying power goes a long way with regards to your level of stress, tackling financial obligations, and feeling like you can "save" money at the end of the month. I bought a house before residency, and the mortgage is still considerably cheaper then people I know who are in those big name programs who basically blow all their paycheck on rent + food. Find a program where you can get a nice place for yourself or your family for 20-30% of your paycheck.

 

[splik]

Your residency training will be relatively similar no matter where you end up, the end product will be solely be a result of the effort you put in.

completely disagree. you can be a good or bad psychiatrist regardless of where you train but the differences in training are staggering. the ACGME seemingly allows extremely loose interpretations of requirements. Many programs do not provide training in psychodynamic psychotherapy, others do not provide training in CBT, others still do not provide training in ECT, some programs will never let you prescribe things like TCAs or MAOIs. Most programs do not have an emergency psychiatry rotation or dedicated Psych ER services. Some programs are VA heavy which all the pros and cons, while others have no exposure to veteran mental health at all. Some programs have significant college mental health exposure while others have none at all. Many programs have no community psychiatry exposure whatsoever, others do not provide any training in forensics. Geography matters hugely to the kinds of problems you will be seeing (for example in terms of the kinds of substance use disorders and prevalence), or diversity of patient population (things like age, socioeconomic status, racial diversity, sexual minorities, veterans, criminalized, refugees and asylum seekers etc). You have a special kind of freedom (ha! probably not the right word) during training to try things out in a way that becomes much harder once you have finished. The things I have mentioned with significant variation are basic ACGME things, this does not even get to more specialized experiences you might get at larger programs (such as neurostimulation, eating disorders, psychosexual disorders, transplantation, neuropsychiatry, psycho-oncology, first episode psychosis, ARMS, group therapy, family therapy, couples therapy, hypnosis, global health electives etc etc). for people interested in private practice there are huge (somewhat geographical) differences in how much preparation programs give for this and how much mentorship you can get for pp.

also cost of living is something that most significantly affects residents with families. if you dont have a family, and are not planning to during residency then this probably doesn't need to be as big a concern i would say. definitely pay attention to how much residencies are paying though as well as differences in benefits which can be big, and how much moonlighting you can do in-house or external moonlighting opportunities.

 

[psychattending]

I would agree with splik -- all programs are definitely not created equal. The differences in training vary markedly among programs; more so than the differences among medical schools. Differences in training among different programs is not unique to psychiatry but it might be more apparent to the untrained eye.

 

[deleted314290]

Most programs do not have an emergency psychiatry rotation or dedicated Psych ER services. Some programs are VA heavy which all the pros and cons, while others have no exposure to veteran mental health at all. Some programs have significant college mental health exposure while others have none at all. Many programs have no community psychiatry exposure whatsoever, others do not provide any training in forensics.

True, however if you are motivated you can use your elective time in 4th year to pursue those options outside of your residency program. There are too many different flavors of psychiatry and you wont be able to experience them all. If you know what type of psychiatrist you want to be, then yes the program choice matters a lot. The OP stated he wants to be at a "highly regarded" program with no specific career goals, so within those parameters it really wont matter where he ends up. I still contend that your ultimate level of training will be more a product of what you put into residency, rather than what residency puts into you. If you are at a bottom rung program then yes it makes it more difficult.

 

[Dharma]

(Also, according to the websites provided above, Pittsburgh seems to have a higher cost of living than Baltimore, Los Angeles, Chicago

You sure about that? http://www.bestplaces.net/compare-cities/pittsburgh_pa/los_angeles_ca/housing

http://www.bestplaces.net/compare-cities/pittsburgh_pa/los_angeles_ca/costofliving

 

[Psychobabbling]

Haven't looked in a few years, but I remember reading that, in general, the Southeast is considering the most finanically sound place to live (i.e., cost of living vs. pay = higher in this region). Maybe more important for post-residency...

 

[wannabie]

You sure about that? http://www.bestplaces.net/compare-cities/pittsburgh_pa/los_angeles_ca/housing

http://www.bestplaces.net/compare-cities/pittsburgh_pa/los_angeles_ca/costofliving

Yes--that's what the first website seems to suggest. I'm not interested in debating which indices are more relevant or accurate because it doesn't answer OP's question. So, I'll just concede. It's also totally irrelevant to the point I was making, but whatever.

 

[Dharma]

There are a good number of solid programs located in great cities that are considerably cheaper than popular coastal locales. Equivalent (or better in some cases) training with the variety of amenities that city life offers. Point being, one don't have to make huge sacrifices (and go rural) trying to save a few bucks while the interest grows.

Pittsburgh is pretty darn affordable too (especially for what it offers), relatively speaking Had to call you out on that boss. Sorry.

 

[wannabie]

Yeah, that's absolutely fair. The idea of it is pretty ludicrous--Pittsburgh more expensive than LA? C'mon.

I interviewed at a whole bunch of midwest and rural locales--all of which had FANTASTIC training opportunities. Right now I live pretty close to NYC. I don't mean to offend anyone, but I don't see how you can talk about some of these cities in the same sentence as NYC, LA, etc. Madison, Minneapolis, Austin, and Chicago? Sure. But Louisville, Memphis, Milwaukee, etc? I don't know about that. It really really depends on what cities we're talking about.

I think I'm just a bit of a snob. A lot of these smaller cities do, in fact, offer quite a bit. I think it might be more important to know what sort of things you want and go from there...

 

[Dharma]

I agree. I spent the better part of a decade in NYC and nothing compares. I love the place, from the grimy to the shiny and I miss it quite regularly (even those long @$$ N train rides from midtown to Bayridge). But in all honesty, it just isn't worth the price in my opinion, but my opinion is a bit skewed. After having spent some time in much smaller cities, I've realized how much they have to offer and it's a heck of a lot more than my former NYCentric self would've thought. Sure it comes at the expense of having less options at times, but it's more than enough, for me and I'm sure for many others.

I agree nothing compares to the big hitters. If someone can land a spot at one of the better programs in these cities I say go for it. I just don't think it's worth it if for those so-so programs when top notch training awaits elsewhere.

 

[VMSmith]

I spent the better part of a decade in NYC and nothing compares.

Yep. Until you've faced paying $800,000 for a 1 bedroom condo or $3200 to rent a 1 bedroom apartment (or sacrificed by adding an extra 30-45 min each way of standing on crowded platforms or stuffed into crowded trains for the privilege of paying "only" $500k to buy or $2200 to rent ) it's hard to conceive what makes NYC so different from other cities in terms of cost of living.

I think only SF compares.

 

[NickNaylor]

Living in a huge city was never of much importance to me. I've been in Chicago for the last four years, and while there are certainly some awesome aspects of living in a city I found it more irritating than beneficial. But I never lived in a big city prior to this.

I get the "but the culture" arguments, but I just didn't find myself taking advantage of all that "culture" on a regular basis to make what I found irritating worthwhile. I'd much rather be able to live in a smaller city with a cost of living that isn't insane. My starting salary in Dallas is going to be significantly more than some of my classmates that are working in places like Chicago and NYC. Combine that with a wife that is also going to be working, we'll be in a position financially to buy a home in a year rather than looking forward to move up to a slightly larger shoebox.

 

[Shikima]

Yep. Until you've faced paying $800,000 for a 1 bedroom condo or $3200 to rent a 1 bedroom apartment (or sacrificed by adding an extra 30-45 min each way of standing on crowded platforms or stuffed into crowded trains for the privilege of paying "only" $500k to buy or $2200 to rent ) it's hard to conceive what makes NYC so different from other cities in terms of cost of living.

I think only SF compares.

..And Seattle now.

 

[wannabie]

I agree. I spent the better part of a decade in NYC and nothing compares. I love the place, from the grimy to the shiny and I miss it quite regularly (even those long @$$ N train rides from midtown to Bayridge). But in all honesty, it just isn't worth the price in my opinion, but my opinion is a bit skewed. After having spent some time in much smaller cities, I've realized how much they have to offer and it's a heck of a lot more than my former NYCentric self would've thought. Sure it comes at the expense of having less options at times, but it's more than enough, for me and I'm sure for many others.

I agree nothing compares to the big hitters. If someone can land a spot at one of the better programs in these cities I say go for it. I just don't think it's worth it if for those so-so programs when top notch training awaits elsewhere.

I agree. I don't think the rent is worth the price either. It just...having so much at your fingertips is amazing! You can go in any direction and just bump into wonderful restaurants and bars. The sheer quantity and quality of ethnic food there blows me away. The train rides...yeah I can totally see that being a bummer. Most of my friends live in Manhattan and Brooklyn and insist on walking everywhere (except for commutes).

Living in a huge city was never of much importance to me. I've been in Chicago for the last four years, and while there are certainly some awesome aspects of living in a city I found it more irritating than beneficial. But I never lived in a big city prior to this.

I get the "but the culture" arguments, but I just didn't find myself taking advantage of all that "culture" on a regular basis to make what I found irritating worthwhile. I'd much rather be able to live in a smaller city with a cost of living that isn't insane.

Coincidentally, I'm moving to Chicago. What irritated you about it? I didn't find the cost of rent to be particularly ridiculous..but maybe that's because I'm coming from NJ/NYC..I was routinely finding 1 bedrooms in Chicago for 1100-1200$ or even less depending on the area.

Okay, so full disclosure: I am, in fact, trying to reassure myself that I didn't make a dumb decision by moving to a big city and overpaying a bit for rent. LOL. But it's the perfect neighborhood and it's my dream loft. That should count for something, right guys? RIGHT??? FML

 

[Frazier]

Just out of curiosity, which programs considered to be highly regarded (I know some factors are arbitrary but lets say Top 20) but have a relatively low cost of living? Quality of training is of course important but a lot of great programs look like they may be in expensive areas. I would guess some of the ones in the midwest, maybe UPitt (a dream match though) would be a little cheaper? I am most curious about programs in the midwest but I would not be opposed to NYC, east coast, west coast, if I was fortunate to interview at high quality programs.

I just wasn't sure what residents' experiences were like and how much of a difference there is and other related factors. Does anyone have an opinion on how much more highly regarded a program should be to be willing to pay much more to live there (other factors aside)? I am not a big fan of talking about rankings but the cost of living is something that is crossing my mind.

I vouch for this.
Pittsburgh is a very affordable city.

 

[NickNaylor]

Coincidentally, I'm moving to Chicago. What irritated you about it? I didn't find the cost of rent to be particularly ridiculous..but maybe that's because I'm coming from NJ/NYC..I was routinely finding 1 bedrooms in Chicago for 1100-1200$ or even less depending on the area.

Okay, so full disclosure: I am, in fact, trying to reassure myself that I didn't make a dumb decision by moving to a big city and overpaying a bit for rent. LOL. But it's the perfect neighborhood and it's my dream loft. That should count for something, right guys? RIGHT??? FML

Nothing about Chicago specifically (apart from the atrocious winters) - just things that I imagine are coincident with living in a big city. Perpetually awful traffic with awful drivers. Huge crowds everywhere, particularly in the summers, making doing anything in the city - like living life - difficult. Constant street closures due to city events and whenever Obama is in town, worsening the traffic situation. High cost of living. Nothing unique to the city.

I'm currently paying for $1100/month for my apartment. I recognize that it isn't as expensive as places like SF, LA, NYC, etc. but it's still expensive to me. Keep in mind that in college I was living in a 1 BR/1 BA apartment with all utilities except electric for less than $500/mo. I'm looking at owning a house with mortgage/HOA fees <$1000/mo, so to me paying more than that for the privilege of renting an apartment in an old building doesn't really jive well as a good deal for me.

 

[Leo Aquarius]

Your PGY-3 stipend is 70k?!?!

My PGY3 income is $100K. I'm making as much as some urgent care doctors. It's called moonlighting.

 

[Dharma]

My PGY3 income is $100K. I'm making as much as some urgent care doctors. It's called moonlighting.

How often are you moonlighting to hit that?

 

[SmallBird]

My PGY3 income is $100K. I'm making as much as some urgent care doctors. It's called moonlighting.

Thats great! Just to be clear though - the $70k is not with moonlighting in my example.

 

[Cinclus]

Living in a huge city was never of much importance to me. I've been in Chicago for the last four years, and while there are certainly some awesome aspects of living in a city I found it more irritating than beneficial. But I never lived in a big city prior to this.

I get the "but the culture" arguments, but I just didn't find myself taking advantage of all that "culture" on a regular basis to make what I found irritating worthwhile. I'd much rather be able to live in a smaller city with a cost of living that isn't insane. My starting salary in Dallas is going to be significantly more than some of my classmates that are working in places like Chicago and NYC. Combine that with a wife that is also going to be working, we'll be in a position financially to buy a home in a year rather than looking forward to move up to a slightly larger shoebox.

After living in a big city for the past 3 years for med school, getting OUT of a big city is of great importance to me and the significant other. We're done with the traffic, the crowds, the pollution, and the lack of availability of anything we actually enjoy doing. Fortunately, the cost of living is fairly low where we are, so at least we haven't had to pay too much to live here.

 

[Nasrudin]

F it. I understand the logic and utility and perhaps outdoors fun of living in other places but I'm a walking urbanite. When I'm done training in NYC I'm going back to SF. The only place that ever felt like home. I'll work odd shifts and crappy gigs until I can make in style. And by that I mean a decent 1 bedroom apartment within ear shot of the surf on ocean beach.

Makes no sense. But that's the life I'm about. Ride or die. So F it. That's what I'm going to do.

Cost of living is the challenge of the hustle. And I enjoy that. When I'm too old and too ****oo to be distinguished from patients maybe someone can discharge me to some affordable crappy place when I'm too far gone to know the difference. Until then it's game on in the best cities in the U.S. for me.

 

[MacDonaldTriad]

Anyone remember Green Acres? I'm on her side Nasrudin:

Green Acres is the place to be.
Farm livin' is the life for me.
Land spreadin' out so far and wide
Keep Manhattan, just give me that countryside.
New York is where I'd rather stay.
I get allergic smelling hay.
I just adore a penthouse view.
Dah-ling I love you but give me Park Avenue.
...The chores.
...The stores.
...Fresh air.
...Times Square
You are my wife.
Good bye, city life.
Green Acres we are there.... Ba dumb da dumb da Ba Ba!

The City is the only way to go.

 

[Leo Aquarius]

How often are you moonlighting to hit that?

About 3 to 4 times a month, depending on how many hours I decide to work. With the call schedule being much less than last year's, it opens the door for moonlighting nirvana.

 

[Armadillos]

The city vs not thing is so interesting. I'm 1000% in the WTF are NYC people thinking camp, but I know if I was born there I would love it.

I'll take a dock on the water with nobody but friends and a grill full of steaks anyday over the bustle of the city.

That being said, the Bay Area is the big city I "get", its incredible out there.

 

[Nasrudin]

The city vs not thing is so interesting. I'm 1000% in the WTF are NYC people thinking camp, but I know if I was born there I would love it.

I'll take a dock on the water with nobody but friends and a grill full of steaks anyday over the bustle of the city.

That being said, the Bay Area is the big city I "get", its incredible out there.

Yeah it's always been interesting to me too. What you describe is very much like the place I was raised up. The smell of warm salty gulf air is in my blood. And I've tried to talk sense into myself as to why a pleasant Midwestern Our Town would be nice or how Texas treats is docs properly etc, etc.

But for very personal irrational reasons I can only do NYC or SF for life. And NYC sucks a bag of d!cks as far as physician work culture goes. But I would stay here waiting for my shot back into the Bay Area suckin one and jerkin two more. I'm just gay for this **** in ways I can't make sense to anyone else.

I just have to be where it feels right being me. Groove is king to me. I totally understand people who feel the opposite. For whatever groove they're into. What I don't get is somebody who points to the square footage on their McMansion as the prize of their personal victory. I do get that kids need space to live though. So there's that... But I'm out of the kid game barring accident so it's a not a factor for me.

 

[Leo Aquarius]

... I just have to be where it feels right being me. Groove is king to me. I totally understand people who feel the opposite. For whatever groove they're into. What I don't get is somebody who points to the square footage on their McMansion as the prize of their personal victory. I do get that kids need space to live though. So there's that... But I'm out of the kid game barring accident so it's a not a factor for me.

Accidents do happen

 

[Mass Effect]

I grew up in a big metropolitan city in the south and all I want is to raise my family in Montana or Wyoming. We want what we want.

 

[WingedOx]

I agree. I don't think the rent is worth the price either. It just...having so much at your fingertips is amazing! You can go in any direction and just bump into wonderful restaurants and bars. The sheer quantity and quality of ethnic food there blows me away. The train rides...yeah I can totally see that being a bummer. Most of my friends live in Manhattan and Brooklyn and insist on walking everywhere (except for commutes).



Coincidentally, I'm moving to Chicago. What irritated you about it? I didn't find the cost of rent to be particularly ridiculous..but maybe that's because I'm coming from NJ/NYC..I was routinely finding 1 bedrooms in Chicago for 1100-1200$ or even less depending on the area.

Okay, so full disclosure: I am, in fact, trying to reassure myself that I didn't make a dumb decision by moving to a big city and overpaying a bit for rent. LOL. But it's the perfect neighborhood and it's my dream loft. That should count for something, right guys? RIGHT??? FML

Nothing about Chicago specifically (apart from the atrocious winters) - just things that I imagine are coincident with living in a big city. Perpetually awful traffic with awful drivers. Huge crowds everywhere, particularly in the summers, making doing anything in the city - like living life - difficult. Constant street closures due to city events and whenever Obama is in town, worsening the traffic situation. High cost of living. Nothing unique to the city.

I'm currently paying for $1100/month for my apartment. I recognize that it isn't as expensive as places like SF, LA, NYC, etc. but it's still expensive to me. Keep in mind that in college I was living in a 1 BR/1 BA apartment with all utilities except electric for less than $500/mo. I'm looking at owning a house with mortgage/HOA fees <$1000/mo, so to me paying more than that for the privilege of renting an apartment in an old building doesn't really jive well as a good deal for me.

The thing with Chicago is it totally depends on the neighborhood. Way back in the day I lived in Ukrainian Village and you could live in a historic old huge apartment for next to nothing. Back when I was looking at jobs in Chicago this fall and looked at what was available in the real estate, and holy crap, the whole area is completely "Brooklyn-ized." Right now there seems to be a good sized arbitrage between rental prices and purchase prices out there, but the more Ms. Ox and I talked about it, it was hard to justify a purchase until a few attending paychecks come through.

Not sure where you guys are moving to/coming from, but when I visit friends living in places like South Loop or Hyde Park I just have to shake my head. It's like having all the inconveniences of the city with none of the culture or entertainment. I can understand overpaying for something on the Southport Corridor or Bucktown, but if you're going to live in a place like Chicago, at least live somewhere with some good bars/restaurants within walking distance.

 

[clausewitz2]

I am kind of indifferent to the idea of living in most large American cities (though I do love to visit NYC), but I do dream of spending a few years in a major Southeast-Asian metropolis. I would move to Singapore or HK in a heartbeat, and would only have to briefly ponder Kuala Lumpur or Sai Gon or Macau. Jakarta I don't know as well and I only experienced Yangon during the sanctions era so that would be a harder decision.

So basically I think I like having big city life but not at North American/Western European prices.

 

[NickNaylor]

The thing with Chicago is it totally depends on the neighborhood. Way back in the day I lived in Ukrainian Village and you could live in a historic old huge apartment for next to nothing. Back when I was looking at jobs in Chicago this fall and looked at what was available in the real estate, and holy crap, the whole area is completely "Brooklyn-ized." Right now there seems to be a good sized arbitrage between rental prices and purchase prices out there, but the more Ms. Ox and I talked about it, it was hard to justify a purchase until a few attending paychecks come through.

Not sure where you guys are moving to/coming from, but when I visit friends living in places like South Loop or Hyde Park I just have to shake my head. It's like having all the inconveniences of the city with none of the culture or entertainment. I can understand overpaying for something on the Southport Corridor or Bucktown, but if you're going to live in a place like Chicago, at least live somewhere with some good bars/restaurants within walking distance.

Yeah, still living in Hyde Park. I'd agree with your assessment. I think I would enjoy the city a lot more if we were on the north side, but the Mrs. didn't want to pay the premium to do that.

 

[wannabie]

The thing with Chicago is it totally depends on the neighborhood. Way back in the day I lived in Ukrainian Village and you could live in a historic old huge apartment for next to nothing. Back when I was looking at jobs in Chicago this fall and looked at what was available in the real estate, and holy crap, the whole area is completely "Brooklyn-ized." Right now there seems to be a good sized arbitrage between rental prices and purchase prices out there, but the more Ms. Ox and I talked about it, it was hard to justify a purchase until a few attending paychecks come through.

Not sure where you guys are moving to/coming from, but when I visit friends living in places like South Loop or Hyde Park I just have to shake my head. It's like having all the inconveniences of the city with none of the culture or entertainment. I can understand overpaying for something on the Southport Corridor or Bucktown, but if you're going to live in a place like Chicago, at least live somewhere with some good bars/restaurants within walking distance.

I signed my lease for Bucktown. I'm a block from Damen ave bars/restaurants. Ten minute walk from Wicker Park and Logan Square bars and restaurants. Ten minutes from blue line and metra. I have to reverse commute for 2/3 of the year. I might regret that 70 min commute. But I can read/study/sleep on the train. I actually manage to be really productive on public transport. If it blows up in my face, I'll just move next year or figure out a sublet. But I'm told by a few residents at my program who do it that it's more than manageable given the overall cushiness of the residency. I also only have short call q6. I don't think that's a lot, but maybe I'm wrong.

I hear Chicago's a better place to buy rather than rent..but I won't be able to afford it for a while. Some parts of Chicago do, in fact, remind me of Williamsburg. People seem to hate gentrification and hipsters, but I see nothing wrong with moving in after they gentrify an area. Let them take the risk and later, I can get my hands on good food, drink, coffee, and shopping! It's okay. I'll overpay a bit for safety and accessibility. It's still cheaper than NJ (where I'm coming from). I can laugh at my friends in NYC paying 2-3 times what I am for closets.

Yeah, still living in Hyde Park. I'd agree with your assessment. I think I would enjoy the city a lot more if we were on the north side, but the Mrs. didn't want to pay the premium to do that.

I know a certain university in the area asks their students to never leave the boundaries of Hyde Park. Or was that just urban legend? That would also explain some of your negativity towards the city. I just tried to find a neighborhood I liked lol. But then again, since I went straight from undergrad to med school, this is my first real job. And since I'm single, that means I have nobody to point out obvious errors and overspending. LOL

 

[WingedOx]

I signed my lease for Bucktown. I'm a block from Damen ave bars/restaurants. Ten minute walk from Wicker Park and Logan Square bars and restaurants. Ten minutes from blue line and metra. I have to reverse commute for 2/3 of the year. I might regret that 70 min commute. But I can read/study/sleep on the train. I actually manage to be really productive on public transport. If it blows up in my face, I'll just move next year or figure out a sublet. But I'm told by a few residents at my program who do it that it's more than manageable given the overall cushiness of the residency. I also only have short call q6. I don't think that's a lot, but maybe I'm wrong.

I hear Chicago's a better place to buy rather than rent..but I won't be able to afford it for a while. Some parts of Chicago do, in fact, remind me of Williamsburg. People seem to hate gentrification and hipsters, but I see nothing wrong with moving in after they gentrify an area. Let them take the risk and later, I can get my hands on good food, drink, coffee, and shopping! It's okay. I'll overpay a bit for safety and accessibility. It's still cheaper than NJ (where I'm coming from). I can laugh at my friends in NYC paying 2-3 times what I am for closets

Good choice on Bucktown. The Bloomingdale Trail opens really soon, and that's going to cause rents and prices in the area the skyrocket.

It isn't so much the gentrification itself that's the issue in WP/B, but the fact that Wicker Park has become the neighborhood of choice for the typical 30 year old "Finance Bro" who still feels the need to get drunk on Bud Light after moving from Wrigleyville. Back when I was there it was a lot like Avondale or Irving Park today (but with better architecture), a relatively quiet neighborhood with some nice spots and good food. I'd actually argue against the fact that it's become "nicer," just more crowded with fewer historic buildings. Seems like every time I go visit people there, another old Ukrainian cottage gets torn down and replaced with another bland condo.

 

[NickNaylor]

I know a certain university in the area asks their students to never leave the boundaries of Hyde Park. Or was that just urban legend? That would also explain some of your negativity towards the city. I just tried to find a neighborhood I liked lol. But then again, since I went straight from undergrad to med school, this is my first real job. And since I'm single, that means I have nobody to point out obvious errors and overspending. LOL

I'm sure it's true for the undergrad if only because HP is a relatively cheap neighborhood and the convenience of living near the university is a big deal. It's less of an issue in med school; each year more and more students moved out of HP and to the Loop or even to the Lincoln Park and surrounding neighborhoods area. I'd say at least 25% of the class lived outside of HP this year with South Loop being the most common place people lived.

I didn't notice it as something drilled into us by the school, though.