Residencies and Osteopathic Schools

[Darkskies]

Hi,
I know this question has probably been asked multiple times but it doesn't seem to have been recently and definitely not regarding my own situation. I hope I am posting this on the correct forum and I apologize if the thread needs to be moved. Actually I would rather have posted this on the General Residency board but they usually move/close threads started by pre-med students there.

So I am a pre-med who graduated from college in May 2010 with a 3.42 GPA. I studied well for the MCAT and while scoring in the mid-30s on my practice AAMC exams, I ended up with a 32R(PS:9, VR:11, BS:12) on the real exam. I feel that I have little options for retaking the exam since my access to the online tests will expire very soon and I had already taken nearly all of the practice AAMC exams. I plan on applying at the earliest possible for the upcoming cycle(planning on June 1st). With that in mind I realize that I don't have very high chances of being accepted to an allopathic school and will most likely end up at an osteopathic one since my GPA is not up to par and I did not score a 35 on the MCAT like in most of my practice exams. How much will this affect me when vying for residency in a specialty? Some have told me to wait another year before applying but frankly I do not want to wait yet another unpredictable/unproductive year and it will take forever to raise my GPA at this point. I'm not sure what field I would be interested in but I don't think it would be anything in ROAD and was leaning towards psychiatry as you may already know. I know that the field is relatively uncompetitive and there isn't much of a DO bias but what if I wanted to go to top programs(or for that matter other specialties even)? Would I be hindered? Thanks for your comments in advance!

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[SpiritiualDuck]

who says you need a 35? I think you've been getting some bad advice. It's the whole application, the whole person that matters.

I think you will be more than competitive with those numbers. I'm not on an admissions board, but I know many folks that got into med school with a combined score around 30ish. I think most people shoot for 10s, nothing less than a 9 in an individual subject, but that's good enough.

I'm a 3rd year resident, so I haven't been in your place in many years, but I remember that a few programs took chances on applicants that were more modest in numbers like Drexel, Albany, etc. I'm not sure where you're from in regards to which state, but definitely apply to your state school too.

Apply to many as you can afford and write a great essay. Your scores won't open doors, but they won't close them necessarily either. Apply to Osteopathic too. A doctor is a doctor and I have DO friends that are wonderful. Getting in is what counts.

Don't take another year off. I think you have a great chance, just apply wide.

 

[Majesty]

Do you have a specific state you want to go to? Thats not going to get you in an MD school in california but if you open yourself up, you can probably get in somewhere.

Osteopathic is not the end of world either. I would not sit out a year.

 

[SomeDoc]

You have great stats- there is no reason whatsoever that you shouldn't apply to both. If you're a good medical student, you will have no problems getting into a residency/specialty of your choice, regardless of which institution you go to. However, getting into the program of your choice within a given specialty once you're at the interview stage is much more up to the ranking algorithm of NRMP. I will be graduating from a DO-degree granting institution; I studied hard for the boards, did very well, and did not have any problems with getting interviews at top academic psych programs.

 

[Darkskies]

I'm in NY state. My first choice would be any US MD school that takes me. Based on recent statistics it looks like I have a 50:50 shot of getting in somewhere but I don't know...I don't even know if it's possible for me to retake the MCAT anymore without forking over 500 dollars to have access to online practice exams. I suppose I could retake it without practicing on any exams but I don't know if I would end up doing well then... I'm so confused/in limbo/upset. Thanks for the advice though guys. So being a DO shouldn't be that much of a hindrance then?

 

[st2205]

I'm in NY state. My first choice would be any US MD school that takes me. Based on recent statistics it looks like I have a 50:50 shot of getting in somewhere but I don't know...I don't even know if it's possible for me to retake the MCAT anymore without forking over 500 dollars to have access to online practice exams. I suppose I could retake it without practicing on any exams but I don't know if I would end up doing well then... I'm so confused/in limbo/upset. Thanks for the advice though guys. So being a DO shouldn't be that much of a hindrance then?

A 32 is a good score. I believe the national average for acceptance is actually lower than that, but it's been a while since I've looked into that. You have a 3.4, not a 3.1. I wouldn't (and didn't) sit out a year. Being a hindrance is conditional on definition. If you were to follow the path of most physicians, it will not be a hindrance (i.e. specifically relating to psychiatry under the implication that you're going out into practice [and not academics or research, though this doesn't exclude you]). As far as other specialties, I'm typically alone in advocating that you're odds of landing a super-competitive field are better on the DO side (if you're just wanting to match to that specialty -- this changes if you're wanting to match that specialty at a specific place). My argument summarized is: Someone stuck statistically between MD and DO admissions has a better shot landing a DO residency in ROAD specialty X than landing an allopathic residency in ROAD specialty X. I'm on a tangent, but I'd apply where you want, both MD and DO, find a place that meets your personal and professional goals and let the cards fall where they will.

 

[Daftrage]

I'm in NY state. My first choice would be any US MD school that takes me. Based on recent statistics it looks like I have a 50:50 shot of getting in somewhere but I don't know...I don't even know if it's possible for me to retake the MCAT anymore without forking over 500 dollars to have access to online practice exams. I suppose I could retake it without practicing on any exams but I don't know if I would end up doing well then... I'm so confused/in limbo/upset. Thanks for the advice though guys. So being a DO shouldn't be that much of a hindrance then?

For starters I am 4 years removed from applying for med school so I am sure some things may have changed but not to much.

I do not think you should retake the exam. You can check specific numbers but last time I looked 30/31 is a national average type of score for allopathic which means you should be right in line. And like you said if you feel that you did all that you could and will be losing resources then don't risk a retake. That score will also be shown to schools and you would have to do 34/35 to make any improvement on a 32.

I think your MCAT is fine but GPA is a little low, but there are variables in that. How rigirous is your school/degree because not all GPA's are equal. Also what is your science GPA because that has more weight than average GPA.

All that being said getting a DO is a fine degree and as long as you take care of business there you can do what you want, but if your dream is MD which will make access to allopathic residencies easier then I would not give up yet. Go find yourself a few different advisors and try to get ahold of someone in a med school admissions department and ask them to "eval" your MCAT and GPA if they are willing.

 

[GreenRiver]

D.O will have hard time to match into top or competitive residencies such as Derm, Opthal, Neuro Surgery, ENT, etc. However, they have their own residencies for those fields as well. Having said that, it doesn't mean you can't get into MD residencies. I know a DO even matched into Yale for Radiology. He worked hard and took both COMLEX and USMLE boards step 1 & 2.

In short, getting into MD schools opens more doors, but the road is still hard for competitive residencies. Getting into DO schools doesn't prohibit you to get competitive residencies. You must work harder to prove that you're the same level w/ MD students. The best way is taking USMLE as well. In reality, patients don't care whether you're DO or MD. As long as you're a good doctor, they'll respect you.

 

[IAmAUser]

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[zac16125]

I'm typically alone in advocating that you're odds of landing a super-competitive field are better on the DO side (if you're just wanting to match to that specialty -- this changes if you're wanting to match that specialty at a specific place). My argument summarized is: Someone stuck statistically between MD and DO admissions has a better shot landing a DO residency in ROAD specialty X than landing an allopathic residency in ROAD specialty X.

I couldn't agree more with this. I don't see how people don't understand that your chances are better as an Elite app in the AOA match compared to being an average app in the Allo match. Sure there are less programs, but there are also WAY less applicants. So if you don't mind going to Michigan, which it seems most of the DO competitive specialty residencies are, it actually makes a lot of sense to go the DO route if you want a ROAD residency.

 

[siked]

Hi,
I know this question has probably been asked multiple times but it doesn't seem to have been recently and definitely not regarding my own situation. I hope I am posting this on the correct forum and I apologize if the thread needs to be moved. Actually I would rather have posted this on the General Residency board but they usually move/close threads started by pre-med students there.

So I am a pre-med who graduated from college in May 2010 with a 3.42 GPA. I studied well for the MCAT and while scoring in the mid-30s on my practice AAMC exams, I ended up with a 32R(PS:9, VR:11, BS:12) on the real exam. I feel that I have little options for retaking the exam since my access to the online tests will expire very soon and I had already taken nearly all of the practice AAMC exams. I plan on applying at the earliest possible for the upcoming cycle(planning on June 1st). With that in mind I realize that I don't have very high chances of being accepted to an allopathic school and will most likely end up at an osteopathic one since my GPA is not up to par and I did not score a 35 on the MCAT like in most of my practice exams. How much will this affect me when vying for residency in a specialty? Some have told me to wait another year before applying but frankly I do not want to wait yet another unpredictable/unproductive year and it will take forever to raise my GPA at this point. I'm not sure what field I would be interested in but I don't think it would be anything in ROAD and was leaning towards psychiatry as you may already know. I know that the field is relatively uncompetitive and there isn't much of a DO bias but what if I wanted to go to top programs(or for that matter other specialties even)? Would I be hindered? Thanks for your comments in advance!

As an osteopathic physician, I am alarmed by some of your comments. I would seriously recommend learning more about the osteopathic philosophy and OMM before just applying. I would hate for you to "end up" (as you put it) at an osteopathic school without being ready to devote 100% of yourself to the rigorous curriculum and expectations. From the theme of your post, you seem to really want an allopathic school, so maybe your energies would be best spent pursuing that goal instead of using osteopathic schools as a backup. Maybe you should retake the MCAT and try to boost your thus far lackluster score. Trust me, you will be in for a big surprise if you think that our curriculum is any less rigorous or demands any less intense.

Just as I would not have been happy with an MD, my suspicions are that at this point, you will not be satisfied with the DO.

And for what it's worth, I was invited to interview at all residencies to which I applied (including top tier west coast and east coast programs) as a DO. Many asked about my decision to become a DO, and I used those opportunities as segways that otherwise may not have been present had I been an MD.

Hope this was helpful and good luck in your application to medical school.

 

[heyjack70]

Go to the cheapest school you get into, MD or DO. The less debt you have crushing you when you're done with residency the better.

 

[peiyueng]

Go to the cheapest school you get into, MD or DO. The less debt you have crushing you when you're done with residency the better.

agreed!

Also, there are scholarships for those who want to join the air force or serve in underserved areas. You can get your med school paid for. My wife did an air force residency and served 4 years (+3 years of residency). She is completely debt free in terms of med school.

Now re: DO: being a DO has its advantages. I was able to find a DO internship and a DO residency outside of the match. In 2004-2005, I did a very relaxed internship in Lancaster PA. I found that internship just by calling around to the different programs. It was all done outside of the match. In fact, that year of internship was the best year of my life. I had so much fun living in PA. Also, it was a very humane internship. We had no nights (other than 4 weeks of night block) and no weekends caalls. I had every weekend off and was able to enjoy my life. My wife was an R-3 in the Air Force at Andrews AFB in MD. She did a ton more call than I did and worked horrible hours even as an R-3. Yuck!

We have since moved back to CA. The residencies here are ultra competitive. Had I not been a DO, I would not have been able to get into a residency in Southern California. This is because residencies don't like people who have had breaks in their training. I last was in internship in 2005 and that takes me quite a bit out of the running when competing with people who are 22 years old prodigies who have had a straight shot from high school to college to med school. Well, luckily, there is a DO psych residency in Colton and I was able to get that spot outside fo the match. The whole process was just so much less stressful and less formal compared to going through the Match. I interviewed in the morning and I was offered the spot via a phone call while driving home from that very interview.

I don't know about you, but I always like things which are less competitive and less stressful. I am an easy going person and take comfort in staying out of environments that are cut-throat. It is more conducive to my learning when I am in a warm environment.

cheers.

 

[GreenRiver]

As an osteopathic physician, I am alarmed by some of your comments. I would seriously recommend learning more about the osteopathic philosophy and OMM before just applying. I would hate for you to "end up" (as you put it) at an osteopathic school without being ready to devote 100% of yourself to the rigorous curriculum and expectations. From the theme of your post, you seem to really want an allopathic school, so maybe your energies would be best spent pursuing that goal instead of using osteopathic schools as a backup. Maybe you should retake the MCAT and try to boost your thus far lackluster score. Trust me, you will be in for a big surprise if you think that our curriculum is any less rigorous or demands any less intense.

Just as I would not have been happy with an MD, my suspicions are that at this point, you will not be satisfied with the DO.

And for what it's worth, I was invited to interview at all residencies to which I applied (including top tier west coast and east coast programs) as a DO. Many asked about my decision to become a DO, and I used those opportunities as segways that otherwise may not have been present had I been an MD.

Hope this was helpful and good luck in your application to medical school.

I totally agree with this post. You must be aware about DO curriculum. They'll teach you OMM (manipulation techniques) on top of basic science. So it's very tough and intense. If you want to take both USMLE and COMLEX, then you must work harder because the focus and style of each exam are a little different. Regarding to OMM, if you don't know about it and are not ready to accept the idea, you may hate yourself so much because you have to learn it on top of all the stress above.

FYI, for primary care fields, as an DO, you don't have to take USMLE to match.