Residencies that pay OT $$$

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maxim3L

maxim3L

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Hi, just wondering as I start to make a mental map of the places I'd like to do my residency which residencies pay OT? I heard Penn and Hopkins do. Any others?
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maxim3L said:
Hi, just wondering as I start to make a mental map of the places I'd like to do my residency which residencies pay OT? I heard Penn and Hopkins do. Any others?
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If I remember correctly, Hopkins actually does not.

And Penn's isn't really overtime. Most aren't really "overtime" per say.

Either way, I was advised (and heeded it) that this really shouldn't be a major factor in assessing residencies.
 
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gasblaster said:
If I remember correctly, Hopkins actually does not.

And Penn's isn't really overtime. Most aren't really "overtime" per say.

Either way, I was advised (and heeded it) that this really shouldn't be a major factor in assessing residencies.
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I was told during the interview that Hopkins does not allow moonlighting.

There are a number of residencies that allow moonlighting in-house, typically for $50+/hour. It's a great way to get some extra money while at the same time getting more OR experience and not having to necessarily pay for an extra malpractice policy. Some start paying after 3pm, others after 5-6pm.

I'd look at it more as a bonus rather than a major factor. If you don't have in-house moonlighting options, you can still look for LTAC or CC moonlighting opportunities as long as your residency allows it and you want to pay for a malpractice policy. Those hours worked are supposed to be logged with the ACGME and counted toward your 80 hour work week. Some people conveniently forget to log those hours.
 
Definitely don't factor this too heavily in your decision making. My program has scaled ours back every year.
 
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I'm not sure Hopkins do. I heard about Georgetown.
 
There are lots of places that let you moonlight, but I'm not really sure why you'd want to. You basically live in the hospital, anyway. It wouldn't be worth an extra few bucks to stick around for a couple extra hours, in my opinion. To each his own, I guess. If you were at a place that worked you ~50 hours and offered $60+/hr for moonlighting, I can see how picking a few easy cases would be worth your while. Don't forget that you can't go over your 80/week average cap, and several of the places I went had fairly strict and specific conditions you had to meet to actually qualify for that moonlighting/overtime pay. As others said, I would keep moonlighting pay a very small factor in your residency choice.
 
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Kentucky has internal moonlighting - you can do some weekend shifts for some cash.

I think it's a good idea - it's a double reward for some extra work. You're doing cases and learning, and supplementing income.
 
Kentucky's is good. Extra cash for some easy OB in house call on the weekend. Most programs this would be just a mandatory call shift.
 
i remember interviewing most of the new york schools did. Mt Sinai paid extra if you volunteered to stay late, and pick up an extra weekend shift. NYU had something similar.
 
Mount Sinai in NYC DOES. The residents love it.

Hopkins does NOT.
 
Case Western/UH does. OR and ICU opportunities. Good educational adjunct and chance to make some extra $$. Cincinnati does. Mostly to do OB I think.
 
Just a thought when discussing overtime payment.

Look at the base salary, look at what the program pays in "overtime" and compare it between programs.

Some programs pay overtime but, actually just pay their residents less in the base salary and make up the salary with "paid overtime".
 
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West Virginia University has extra weekend call shifts that pay extra. I think one is a Saturday 7-3 or 7-5 and the other is a Fri-Mon backup pager call. Not sure what they pay now but it was pretty good a few years ago.
 
Wake has excellent moonlighting opportunities, though we do not get "OT pay" if stuck in a room past three (happens occasionally, but not often at all; maybe once every six weeks). Our moonlighting is covering an outpatient hospital for acute situations in PACU and once on floor. Usually 20 patients or less on floor during week. 5-10 on weekends. Almost never get called. In 10 shifts, have been called three times (patient with asymptomatic bradycardia, IV access on someone with ropes for veins, etc). $60 per hour. 6pm til 5:15 am on weekdays, 24 hour shifts on Saturday and Sunday (in other words, watching football all day on weekends and getting paid $60/hr to do it). Can make as much as you want really. I made an additional $3000 this month by working 4 shifts. Starts at very end of CA-1, beginning of CA-2 year.

You can also get "AE" (Additional experience) money at Wake if you want to stay late on Fridays in the room you are sitting (3-5, 3-7, or 3-9) or come in on Saturdays or Sundays (6am-6pm, or 6pm-6am or so). Pays $75 hr. If you stayed til 5 every week on Friday would make an additional $600 per month just by staying for two hours in the room you are already sitting. Obviously make more if you wanted it by staying later.

Can also take home peds anesthesia beeper call for $10 an hour and make $75 an hour if called in on weekends. Usually don't get called, but good money if you do.
 
That's amazing $$ at wake.

I bet I'd be pulling in >100k if I was compensated like that.
 
floridaboy18 said:
Wake has excellent moonlighting opportunities, though we do not get "OT pay" if stuck in a room past three (happens occasionally, but not often at all; maybe once every six weeks). Our moonlighting is covering an outpatient hospital for acute situations in PACU and once on floor. Usually 20 patients or less on floor during week. 5-10 on weekends. Almost never get called. In 10 shifts, have been called three times (patient with asymptomatic bradycardia, IV access on someone with ropes for veins, etc). $60 per hour. 6pm til 5:15 am on weekdays, 24 hour shifts on Saturday and Sunday (in other words, watching football all day on weekends and getting paid $60/hr to do it). Can make as much as you want really. I made an additional $3000 this month by working 4 shifts. Starts at very end of CA-1, beginning of CA-2 year.

You can also get "AE" (Additional experience) money at Wake if you want to stay late on Fridays in the room you are sitting (3-5, 3-7, or 3-9) or come in on Saturdays or Sundays (6am-6pm, or 6pm-6am or so). Pays $75 hr. If you stayed til 5 every week on Friday would make an additional $600 per month just by staying for two hours in the room you are already sitting. Obviously make more if you wanted it by staying later.

Can also take home peds anesthesia beeper call for $10 an hour and make $75 an hour if called in on weekends. Usually don't get called, but good money if you do.
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Its not usual for you guys to work past 3?!?! Is this common practice? Am I being abused?
 
floridaboy18 said:
Wake has excellent moonlighting opportunities, though we do not get "OT pay" if stuck in a room past three (happens occasionally, but not often at all; maybe once every six weeks). Our moonlighting is covering an outpatient hospital for acute situations in PACU and once on floor. Usually 20 patients or less on floor during week. 5-10 on weekends. Almost never get called. In 10 shifts, have been called three times (patient with asymptomatic bradycardia, IV access on someone with ropes for veins, etc). $60 per hour. 6pm til 5:15 am on weekdays, 24 hour shifts on Saturday and Sunday (in other words, watching football all day on weekends and getting paid $60/hr to do it). Can make as much as you want really. I made an additional $3000 this month by working 4 shifts. Starts at very end of CA-1, beginning of CA-2 year.

You can also get "AE" (Additional experience) money at Wake if you want to stay late on Fridays in the room you are sitting (3-5, 3-7, or 3-9) or come in on Saturdays or Sundays (6am-6pm, or 6pm-6am or so). Pays $75 hr. If you stayed til 5 every week on Friday would make an additional $600 per month just by staying for two hours in the room you are already sitting. Obviously make more if you wanted it by staying later.

Can also take home peds anesthesia beeper call for $10 an hour and make $75 an hour if called in on weekends. Usually don't get called, but good money if you do.
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asymptomatic bradycardia? do you even treat that
 
U of Utah pays $70/hr after 5pm if you are not call or pre call. It's a nice bonus, but really shouldn't factor into your decision.
 
After reading some of these replies, I think one should definitely factor this aspect highly into your residency choice selection. In addition, pick a residency that is generous with their yearly stipend for books, conference travel, CME, etc. Stating the obvious yet often unacknowledged, most residencies are like most medical schools - they all put out a large percentage of well-trained and educated physicians. So, everything else that makes the "job" you're applying for more attractive should not be discounted or disparaged.
 
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Allow me to disagree. I would be very suspicious of a program that pays a lot of overtime or offers a lot of opportunities for moonlighting. Generally the best anesthesia programs don't (need to). In the best programs, at the end of a regular day, you are so tired that you are happy you can go home and sleep.

Anesthesia is not an 8 hours/day residency, more like a 12 hours/day one. It's not overtime, it's training; those extra hours of experience matter. The important question is not whether the program pays overtime, but whether the program reserves the best cases for its residents.

Residents should be so passionate about their training that the hospital would need to pay them not to stay "overtime". That defines a good program (and a good resident).
 
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I compiled this list a while back so I don't know how accurate it is anymore; here it is anyways:

Programs with Moonlight Opportunities
Mt. Sinai in NYC
harbor UCLA
upitt
uab
cleveland clinic
UTMB - Galveston
Wash-U
OU
Virginia Commonwealth University/Medical College of VA
UT-Houston
WVU
Penn
Case-Western
Vanderbilt

That being said I would say the rate limiting factor in deciding on a program should be quality of training. Once those have been narrowed down, then start looking at perks/benefits.
 
FFP said:
Allow me to disagree. I would be very suspicious of a program that pays a lot of overtime or offers a lot of opportunities for moonlighting. Generally the best anesthesia programs don't (need to). In the best programs, at the end of a regular day, you are so tired that you are happy you can go home and sleep.

Anesthesia is not an 8 hours/day residency, more like a 12 hours/day one. It's not overtime, it's training; those extra hours of experience matter. The important question is not whether the program pays overtime, but whether the program reserves the best cases for its residents.

Residents should be so passionate about their training that the hospital would need to pay them not to stay "overtime". That defines a good program (and a good resident).
Click to expand...

That's one way of looking at it, but its possible some programs use 'overtime pay' as a way to attract more highly qualified applicants over their competitors. But yea one needs to look at the program carefully
 
FFP said:
Allow me to disagree. I would be very suspicious of a program that pays a lot of overtime or offers a lot of opportunities for moonlighting. Generally the best anesthesia programs don't (need to). In the best programs, at the end of a regular day, you are so tired that you are happy you can go home and sleep.

Anesthesia is not an 8 hours/day residency, more like a 12 hours/day one. It's not overtime, it's training; those extra hours of experience matter. The important question is not whether the program pays overtime, but whether the program reserves the best cases for its residents.

Residents should be so passionate about their training that the hospital would need to pay them not to stay "overtime". That defines a good program (and a good resident).
Click to expand...

I think being suspicious is a little silly given the fact that the list of programs below are some of the top programs in the country:

Sinai, Pitt, UAb, Cleveland, wash-u, penn, vandy...

That's basically half of the programs listed.

However don't be fooled, there's a big reason they pay overtime --> residents are cheap labor. They could make the residents feel like slaves while going around relieving senior residents or attendings to cover cases running late, or they can soften the blow by paying rates significantly below that earned by a CRNA , (but significantly above a typical hourly rate for a resident). So in the end, everybody kinda wins. the hospital saves money, and the residents don't feel like they are being slaved out quite as much.

In the end though it's a dumb reason to pick a residency unless you have a very specific financial situation and can't possibly make ends meet without the extra cash...





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FFP said:
Allow me to disagree. I would be very suspicious of a program that pays a lot of overtime or offers a lot of opportunities for moonlighting. Generally the best anesthesia programs don't (need to). In the best programs, at the end of a regular day, you are so tired that you are happy you can go home and sleep.

Anesthesia is not an 8 hours/day residency, more like a 12 hours/day one. It's not overtime, it's training; those extra hours of experience matter. The important question is not whether the program pays overtime, but whether the program reserves the best cases for its residents.

Residents should be so passionate about their training that the hospital would need to pay them not to stay "overtime". That defines a good program (and a good resident).
Click to expand...

I am sorry, but no. I have met many a resident and attending who can feign interest and act like they're over the moon with their specialty, but when it comes down to it, they leave not a second later than when they are dismissed of their duties. Lots of talk and jibber jabber, but usually those staying late are doing so because of incentivization (money, trying to get a fellowship, schmoozing, etc.)
 
I don't condemn incentives per se, but I would be suspicious if residents were paid extra as early as 4-5 pm, or made significant money from incentives/moonlighting.
 
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