Residency or Straight To Work???

[peacefulone]

I am a current D4 and I am torn between applying to residency or going straight to work. What is the personal experience from anyone who has done a GPR/AEGD? I have heard so many things. Some people have said it is a waste of time and they wish they would have gone straight to work because their programs did not really give them the exposure they thought. I just don't want to waste my money applying someplace and it ends up being a horrible a experience.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated

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[dmd.22]

I'd also like to know ^^^

 

[qdogmillionaire]

Just like dental school- you get what you put in. If you are determined to learn a lot and seek wisdom from faculty, you will be a better dentist for doing a residency. If you do the minimum and can’t stop thinking about the income you aren’t making, you may regret doing residency. Something I have heard more than once is if you are not confident in your abilities after D4, a GPR or AEGD can be a great environment to booster your skills in a safe, supportive environment.

 

[TanMan]

I am a current D4 and I am torn between applying to residency or going straight to work. What is the personal experience from anyone who has done a GPR/AEGD? I have heard so many things. Some people have said it is a waste of time and they wish they would have gone straight to work because their programs did not really give them the exposure they thought. I just don't want to waste my money applying someplace and it ends up being a horrible a experience.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated

I haven't done an AEGD/GPR, but I know people who have. Financially, I don't think it could make you a much more profitable dentist that just buckling down and going straight to private practice. Going straight to private practice gives you the speed and confidence to see, treat, and manage patients independently. You can always take CE courses for more complicated treatment, if that's the path you want to pursue. Will it cost you more? Yes, but the opportunity cost of losing a year of working is pretty high as well.

You have to know what you want. If you think you need a lot of guidance, don't want to learn on the fly, and/or want to take on complicated cases, AEGD/GPR might be a better choice. If you are open to learning on the job, building up speed and skill simultaneously, and learning from your messups in the corporate/private setting, I'd probably say private practice/corporate is a better choice.

I'm probably going to receive a lot of criticism for this, but there are plenty of CE courses that will help you tackle moderately difficult cases of endo, implant, ortho, perio, etc... whatever floats your boat. You don't necessarily need a residency if you're not afraid to implement what you've learned in those courses immediately in private practice. However, you take the responsibility if things go wrong, but that's with any situation.

Go out, make money, always keep learning from your mistakes, and be a great dentist.

 

[Vicviper]

I think there's a number of factors that go into this decision, and a big part of that is how much you did in dental school, and how much confidence you got from that. Back in the day, 60-80's, you couldn't graduate most dental schools without doing 20-40 units of fixed and 100-200 restorations - during this time, the number of people that did GPR/AEGD was very small. Zoom to today, and many schools are putting out graduates that have done less than five crowns, less than 40 direct restorations, 3 RCT's, and never having picked up a surgical handpiece to section a tooth. Because of this, we have a lot more people (often a majority of the class) wanting to do a residency, because they didn't get the experience they needed/wanted, and haven't built up the confidence / experience they want to go out into private practice.

This isn't to say you can't start working right away, like TanMan said, sometimes that on the job experience can really get your butt into gear, especially if you got a lot of experience in dental school. That said, that won't work for everyone. Every graduating dental student / dentist is different, and there's nothing wrong with needing a post-grad year to fill in the blanks that dental school didn't cover - which are often very large, haha.

Lastly, every residency program is different - some are more or less a 5th year of dental school, and you really don't get much out of them, and can be a total waste of a year with the wrong circumstances. You really need to try to do your due diligence when you're researching where to apply and interviewing. Asking the right questions and talking to the current residents is very important and can make the difference between getting you that bigger leap in skills and confidence, or ending up not much better off than you were a year ago.

I actually attended the residency that I'm now the director of - NYU/L Visalia, Family Health Care Network - and I can say that doing this program was the best decision I've made in my career, and it turned me into the much more confident dentist that I am today.

But, bottom line, it's different for everyone. An AEGD was the right decision for me, it might be for you, or it might not be. You need to do some introspection, and find out for yourself what you're looking for. Also, ask your instructors in dental school what they think, and what they did.

Good luck!

 

[Dion]

I say do residency. I feel that residency provides additional experiences that you can not get in dental school. I know a lot of people say well you can work under the mentor of a more senior doctor to get more experience. I feel that it is better to be in a setting where if you feel the need to gain more experience to be in an environment that is specifically designed to increase skills. You don't want to feel like you're holding the more senior doc back.

 

[AEGD Director]

I think there's a number of factors that go into this decision, and a big part of that is how much you did in dental school, and how much confidence you got from that. Back in the day, 60-80's, you couldn't graduate most dental schools without doing 20-40 units of fixed and 100-200 restorations - during this time, the number of people that did GPR/AEGD was very small. Zoom to today, and many schools are putting out graduates that have done less than five crowns, less than 40 direct restorations, 3 RCT's, and never having picked up a surgical handpiece to section a tooth. Because of this, we have a lot more people (often a majority of the class) wanting to do a residency, because they didn't get the experience they needed/wanted, and haven't built up the confidence / experience they want to go out into private practice.

This isn't to say you can't start working right away, like TanMan said, sometimes that on the job experience can really get your butt into gear, especially if you got a lot of experience in dental school. That said, that won't work for everyone. Every graduating dental student / dentist is different, and there's nothing wrong with needing a post-grad year to fill in the blanks that dental school didn't cover - which are often very large, haha.

Lastly, every residency program is different - some are more or less a 5th year of dental school, and you really don't get much out of them, and can be a total waste of a year with the wrong circumstances. You really need to try to do your due diligence when you're researching where to apply and interviewing. Asking the right questions and talking to the current residents is very important and can make the difference between getting you that bigger leap in skills and confidence, or ending up not much better off than you were a year ago.

I actually attended the residency that I'm now the director of - NYU/L Visalia, Family Health Care Network - and I can say that doing this program was the best decision I've made in my career, and it turned me into the much more confident dentist that I am today.

But, bottom line, it's different for everyone. An AEGD was the right decision for me, it might be for you, or it might not be. You need to do some introspection, and find out for yourself what you're looking for. Also, ask your instructors in dental school what they think, and what they did.

Good luck!

Steve McAwesome.
I like your posts.
You have a lot of true statements.
Dentistry is getting more complex for sure,
I bet your residency is awesome.

 

[2TH MVR]

At some point .... You have to remove the training wheels (DS) and be a practicing dentist. We all went through it. The 1st couple of years outside of DS is challenging, but ultimately you survive learning on the job. In time you will pick up CE for areas you are lacking or to learn additional techniques. I don't see the point of a 5th year in DS. My opinion only.
Btw. I attended an AEGD mostly to bolster my ortho application.

 

[Vicviper]

At some point .... You have to remove the training wheels (DS) and be a practicing dentist. We all went through it. The 1st couple of years outside of DS is challenging, but ultimately you survive learning on the job. In time you will pick up CE for areas you are lacking or to learn additional techniques. I don't see the point of a 5th year in DS. My opinion only.
Btw. I attended an AEGD mostly to bolster my ortho application.

I agree with the bold point 110% - there are a number of programs out there which are basically a 5th year of dental school - IE start and stop checks through the whole program, significant focus on pure academics and research over clinical training, only seeing 2-3 patients a day, or not having an assistant.

In many cases, and for most incoming residency candidates, these programs can leave people feeling regret for not just jumping into practice, and their time would have most likely been spent better that way. That's why it is so important to actually go out for an interview and learn what you can about the program, talk to current residents, and see what the residents do day to day. In my interviews I flip through the previous week or so of my residents' schedules so interviewing candidates can see what the residents ACTUALLY do not just say they do.

When I was applying to programs myself, I only applied to like 4 so I ended up having to do post-match. I started getting calls from residency programs that I didn't apply to, but they had my name from a list, and on more than one occasion, was given an offer after a 5-10 minute phone conversation. I was really taken aback by this, because I really didn't know much at all about the programs, and was confused why they would offer me a position sight unseen.

Bottom line, you really need to do your research and due diligence when applying to programs, because if it's not a good match for you, and not offering what you want to get out of it, you may be better off just going into private practice.

 

[autoclavemonkey]

You really have to research places you’re applying to. Talk to those who have applied last year or have gone through programs. There are some excellent programs out there but also could be very competitive.

Another advice is that be sure general dentistry is something you’d like to continue doing. I have done 2years of GPR just to slowly realize that Id like to pursue prosthodontics. I’ve done some really cool stuff and don’t regret my time but would’ve been nice to save 2 years by going straight to prosth

 

[ysrebob]

Don’t expect any kind of mentoring on the job... those kind of associateships are rare. It’s probably going to be sink or swim. The only thing your boss likely will care about is your daily production. Nearly everybody does swim, after some initial flailing around. Some of your classmates will become very mediocre dentists, though. Some very successful dentists are mediocre, clinically speaking. Clinical skill and financial success are only tenuously related.

Doing a good residency year is nice if your debt situation allows it, and will unambiguously make you a better and more versatile dentist for years to come. It's less clear that there is a net financial benefit to doing one. Unfortunately, at the debt levels folks are coming out of private schools with now, you really have to be focused on your bottom line. If a residency year is a luxury you can't justify, you just have to make a sincere personal effort to improve and grow as you go along, production pressures notwithstanding.

 

[dratv]

I am a current D4 and I am torn between applying to residency or going straight to work. What is the personal experience from anyone who has done a GPR/AEGD? I have heard so many things. Some people have said it is a waste of time and they wish they would have gone straight to work because their programs did not really give them the exposure they thought. I just don't want to waste my money applying someplace and it ends up being a horrible a experience.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated

I would def say do a residency. Yes, it’s an additional year.. but so worth the investment. You’ll learn so much more than in dental school and the most important thing you’ll learn are your limitations. You will understand what is right and what is wrong on how to do things before hitting the real world. I honesty think it should be a requirement prior to private practice. It’ll be hard to work and do a crappy job and have your name written all over it, have your patients suffer, and creating a foundation that isnt as strong as it can be. Further educating yourself is very beneficial for you as a provider and ensuring that your patients are getting the best treatment(s) that you can possibly provide.

 

[CowboyCanine]

It is not an easy decision to make, for sure

Here are some of the reasons why I have decided to go to a pros residency

I have practiced as a GP in a private practice in the Dallas area for a few years. After graduation, I was sick of school, and of being poor. So I decided not to go into any residency programs and went to work.

I did get fast with procedures, I did earn money and I did get better. I take a lot of CE courses each year, maybe 80-100 credits- some Spear courses, LA Institute with Dr. Ruiz, implant continuum at San Antonio, etc. I am a member of local dental society, try to attend their meetings. I also have 2 friends from dental school, and we have a 'study' group on Skype, and we share ideas- clinical, about CEs, or business.

Now I am looking to pursue Grad Pros this year. I am getting ready to start applying in the summer.

I am looking to get trained in advanced dentistry, specialize and also pay my student debt asap. So the best way forward for me is to be trained in Grad Pros through the military, serve for a few years, and have 0$ in debt by the time I am in my early 40s with some experience under my belt.

SO in the end, it boils down to,, What do you want to do?
That is a tough question to answer when you are in dental school, because you may not know what you really want (in terms of dentistry). SO in my opinion, work for 1-3 years as a general dentist, figure things out regarding what rocks your boat, and then set about achieving it. Don't just blindly apply to a residency because
a. Everyone else is doing it or
b. you think specialists make a lot of money

Don't be in a residency that you will not enjoy !!!

 

[Afterhoursdentist]

You really have to research places you’re applying to. Talk to those who have applied last year or have gone through programs. There are some excellent programs out there but also could be very competitive.

Another advice is that be sure general dentistry is something you’d like to continue doing. I have done 2years of GPR just to slowly realize that Id like to pursue prosthodontics. I’ve done some really cool stuff and don’t regret my time but would’ve been nice to save 2 years by going straight to prosth

Lol

 

[321931]

You really have to research places you’re applying to. Talk to those who have applied last year or have gone through programs. There are some excellent programs out there but also could be very competitive.

Another advice is that be sure general dentistry is something you’d like to continue doing. I have done 2years of GPR just to slowly realize that Id like to pursue prosthodontics. I’ve done some really cool stuff and don’t regret my time but would’ve been nice to save 2 years by going straight to prosth

Oh wow. Ambitious. I’m curious though debt load and interest accumulated? Some day you gotta face the music.

If no loans then lucky for you.

All I know is the dental debt load accumulating interest at 6% for 2 years on top of another 2-3 years residency with no payments going towards it.... is he definition of insanity. Chained to debt.

 

[Afterhoursdentist]

If two years of a GPR has made you “realize” that prosth is your calling then you should 1000% do a prosth residency! A word of caution: When you are done with residency do not open your own practice... your expertise will be better utilized by being a contractor with general dentists and seeing patients they refer to you their facilities.

 

[autoclavemonkey]

I'm lucky to say that I don't have any loans. If i had loans, I would have had hard time convincing myself to pursue prosthodontics.

 

[setdoc7]

I haven't done an AEGD/GPR, but I know people who have. Financially, I don't think it could make you a much more profitable dentist that just buckling down and going straight to private practice. Going straight to private practice gives you the speed and confidence to see, treat, and manage patients independently. You can always take CE courses for more complicated treatment, if that's the path you want to pursue. Will it cost you more? Yes, but the opportunity cost of losing a year of working is pretty high as well.

You have to know what you want. If you think you need a lot of guidance, don't want to learn on the fly, and/or want to take on complicated cases, AEGD/GPR might be a better choice. If you are open to learning on the job, building up speed and skill simultaneously, and learning from your messups in the corporate/private setting, I'd probably say private practice/corporate is a better choice.

I'm probably going to receive a lot of criticism for this, but there are plenty of CE courses that will help you tackle moderately difficult cases of endo, implant, ortho, perio, etc... whatever floats your boat. You don't necessarily need a residency if you're not afraid to implement what you've learned in those courses immediately in private practice. However, you take the responsibility if things go wrong, but that's with any situation.

Go out, make money, always keep learning from your mistakes, and be a great dentist.

The difference between CE and a residency is that in CE you most often learn the concepts and "how to" of a procedure. In residency you actually learn that and then get to do the procedure with guidance when/if necessary. Live patient CE is very expensive and not always available where you live, so travel and extra days off become a factor. And it is still not a multi patient experience, as residency can be.
True, I am a GPR PD, and my opinion could be construed as self serving, but I was not always a PD. I did a GPR and some OMFS straight out of school. Then went into my own private practice and was a solo practitioner for 15 years. I still practice privately 3 days a week. Some very good students can probably go right into practice, but my experience with excellent recent grads in my own program is that there is always something to learn, and if you wish to do more than basic restorative and prosthetic work, a good GPR can be invaluable. Not all dental schools are equal, and the product from even the best schools can vary.

 

[TanMan]

The difference between CE and a residency is that in CE you most often learn the concepts and "how to" of a procedure. In residency you actually learn that and then get to do the procedure with guidance when/if necessary. Live patient CE is very expensive and not always available where you live, so travel and extra days off become a factor. And it is still not a multi patient experience, as residency can be.
True, I am a GPR PD, and my opinion could be construed as self serving, but I was not always a PD. I did a GPR and some OMFS straight out of school. Then went into my own private practice and was a solo practitioner for 15 years. I still practice privately 3 days a week. Some very good students can probably go right into practice, but my experience with excellent recent grads in my own program is that there is always something to learn, and if you wish to do more than basic restorative and prosthetic work, a good GPR can be invaluable. Not all dental schools are equal, and the product from even the best schools can vary.

As practicing dentists, we should have the ability to reason out as to why we do what we do. A CE course is a practical primer on performing a procedure - if they tell you why it should be done the way it is, it is an added bonus. There's no reason why you cannot ask the "why" question during a course. The first few times of performing a procedure, regardless of how it is performed, is performed on a live human (pig jaws don't really count). Whether you need the backing of an attending, a fellow colleague/specialist willing to train you, a sales rep (I've always been skeptical about reps sitting in on your first procedure), or just studying the procedure intently, I don't think there's a right and wrong way of learning. A live patient course is definitely better, especially if it's a hands on live patient CE course, but @setdoc7 is right, they are a lot more expensive that your regular courses. LANAP is about 130k, live patient implant courses are 10-20k+. For some people, a GPR is definitely a good way to learn from a multidisciplinary perspective, for others, watching a youtube video 15 mins before may be sufficient.

The worst procedures to learn on-the-fly (clinically) are perio surgery related, because of pain, possibility to cause more damage/recession, and variability in patient compliance.