Residency program w/o any residents from own med school

[SB12159]

Hi. Long time lurker. First time poster. Current M3 very interested in psych.

So, a psych residency program I'm very interested in that usually matches at least one resident from it's own med school has no new residents from their med school this year. It's a program with about 8 PGY1 positions and it's hard to tell from the press release about the new residents how competitive they are, but it's a mixed bag from not necessarily "top tier" med schools and their bios don't seem over the top or anything (mine is not either btw! I'm totally average). Additionally, this isn't a historically hugely competitive program. It's not NE US or California, for example. It's been my understanding that programs without any "home" students as residents might be a red flag. This school in particular also had 7 or 8 MS4's match psych this year, a lot for this school, and the fact that none of them ended up at staying at this institution gives me pause.

Maybe it's just an outlier Match year? Anyone have any thoughts on this or how to find out if a program is troubled or undesirable in some way? I wish there was a "dark web" FREIDA step sister site where the real nuts and bolts of programs could be revealed instead of the benign and not always helpful AMA info.

Also, I was trying to find NRMP data on whether or not any of the positions filled were filled via SOAP, but I cannot seem to locate this. All I know is that they filled all their positions, but I cannot seem to find any information on whether any of these new residents got in through SOAP. Anyone know how to find this information for a particular program? I've done loads of searching and consider myself search savvy, but I'm coming up with nothing. Is SOAP info super secret man behind the curtain data?

Thanks in advance!

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[northernpsy]

I wouldn't read too much into this. A lot of people choose their residency on factors that have nothing to do with the quality of the program like wanting to go back to where their family lives. When I was on the ranking committee for my residency program, I got to see the list of where the people we interviewed matched at afterwards. I was surprised to see one of the academically strong candidates we interviewed wound up at a very new community program rather than a university-based program like the one I went to. However, maybe the geography worked for her or she just happened to really hit it off with the PD there or something.

Your best bet for really understanding what a program is like is to try to do a rotation there and take every opportunity you can to talk to residents on your rotation or during the interview. If a program doesnt let you meet residents, THAT is definitely a bad sign. Just realize that sometimes residents are not going to be totally forthcoming about problems because they don't want to risk causing problems for themselves. Often you can read between the lines though.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

Yeah, you can't make much out of one class. The fact that the residency has some local people could be a good sign, or at least it's not a negative sign. Not having rock star people in the class is pretty typical for any psych program aside from the top ones. A program that fills with average US MDs is actually probably above average in the psychiatry world. Red flags are things like no US MDs.

 

[digitlnoize]

I agree. At my program it's really hit or miss as to how many people from our own med school stay here. I like to think that it mostly has to do with personal goals and other factors and less to do with our program. Usually it's because they're sick of this he place and want to move somewhere me where else. Other times it's because they have family in Texas or wherever and want to get back there. Or they want to live in the big city. Or they really want to train at an Ivy. Etc.

That being said, I consider my program slightly above average (for adult at least...we're stellar for child), so maybe they're leaving because we're not superstars, but it's certainly not becaus we're malignant.

 

[takeeacy]

UCLA went without taking it's own medical students for two years I believe. Then there were 5 this year. Not the best example, but I think it shows that there are many factors at play.

 

[SB12159]

Thank you all for the replies. I had suspected that a good portion of the students who matched psych at a different program had their reasons. I'm getting closer to applying and was wondering how much stock I should put into this finding regarding the program's worth.

I also wonder, on the flip side, if the run of the mill, average (but decent) psych programs prefer to rank students from their school (outside of the truly "bad" home grown applicant). I would like to think that if a program knows a student and that student knows the program and that student has made positive contacts in the dept, did a successful sub-I etc. that that applicant would likely be ranked by the program. It seems like a fairly straight forward win-win, but in the residency match game one never knows so just trying to get a feel of how PD's in psych think.

 

[bedevilled ben]

Hi. Long time lurker. First time poster. Current M3 very interested in psych.
Thanks in advance!

It sounds hackney and cliche, but try to limit your preconceived ideas about which program is "best" and rank the ones you feel "fit" you the best instead. I interviewed at widely diverse programs because I'm an IMG, ranging from small community hospitals to big university programs. I ended up ranking a community hospital over some bigger university program because I just clicked so well with the administration. I am so head-over-heels in love with my program, the intern class is already super close and the seniors are incredibly supportive. It really comes down to the program culture. Don't read too much into the statistics. Different people value different things in their residency.

 

[splik]

I also wonder, on the flip side, if the run of the mill, average (but decent) psych programs prefer to rank students from their school (outside of the truly "bad" home grown applicant). .

yes they do because most of the other contenders are much, much worse. that said, many of the applicants from said run of the mill program will probably go elsewhere to a much better program. there are some programs that just take their own students because they are never going to leave the state and there are enough people going into psychiatry. you would be incredibly foolish to put any worth in it. the most common reason people stay at their home program is geography not because it's any good. also, med students often don't have a sense of what the program is actually like even though they at that med school. some have a rude awakening when they find the residency program they rotated at as a med student is not how it was when they were a med student...

 

[Doctor Bagel]

also, med students often don't have a sense of what the program is actually like even though they at that med school. some have a rude awakening when they find the residency program they rotated at as a med student is not how it was when they were a med student...

Very true. Being a resident at a program and being a medical student are different things. Residents at my program who attended the same medical school actually wound up being some of the more dissatisfied residents because they really didn't know what they were getting into but thought they did.

 

[clausewitz2]

Very true. Being a resident at a program and being a medical student are different things. Residents at my program who attended the same medical school actually wound up being some of the more dissatisfied residents because they really didn't know what they were getting into but thought they did.

By the same token, while medical students may be bad at judging their home program's upside, I think that if they get the impression that their home program is a hot mess, that intuition should be respected by fleeing if possible. Dysfunction detectable by people not on the call schedule is pretty marked dysfunction.

 

[SB12159]

More great thoughts! Thanks so much. Many of these points are ones I never would have thought of as a med student and so this is exactly the input I am looking for. It's interesting, though, from what some of you are saying, that it's quite possible med students may not get an accurate picture of their home institution's program even while getting extensive exposure to it. Which makes me wonder how does anyone get an accurate idea of a program whether as an outsider or insider? FREIDA has great basic information on programs, but nothing anecdotal. Outside of the very well known top programs it's hard to really get a feel of the other programs that aren't so "famous" but may very well be solid and even diamond in the rough programs. Fortunately this forum exists, but SDN is hardly the place to get a true feel of a program. It's frustrating, with so much on the line, and given what a time commitment it is to end up at any program, that honest information isn't that freely available, not that it's surprising, but I'd love to get a clear view of what current and very recent residents of any given program have to say about it.

 

[artorious22]

I think I made a royal mistake not ranking my medical school's program higher. I would have been at least used to the system.