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The "anyone accepted yet?" thread was getting hijacked by a discussion of the necessity of clinical exposure and so I thought I'd bring the discussion here, since I think it's worth exploring further.
Am I the only one who thinks that having to have volunteered in hospitals and shadowed physicians just to get into a post-bacc program (let alone medical school) is nothing more than an incredibly annoying system of hoops to be jumped through? Everyone says "you have to know what you're getting into." Fair enough. But look: why is it assumed that, unless one has rolled patients around in the ER, observed a surgery, and followed an FP doc around the clinic for a day, one has a completely unrealistic view of medicine and MUST only be trying to enter it on a whim? I talked to a pre-med advisor a few weeks ago and almost argued with her on this point. She said, "well, you have to have seen how busy an ER can get, listened to a resident bitching about being overworked, etc." Why? Everyone knows residents have to work 80 hours a week and 30 hour straight shifts when on call. See? I just proved I know that, by stating it. Now, why do I need to listen to a resident tell it to me? I already know!
Really, what are these programs so afraid of? What is the bad thing they think is going to happen if they admit people who haven't observed an ER? Are they worried about little stuff, like students finding out they can't stand the sight of blood? Well, I already know I can. Next! Are they worried we think we're just going to make $500k/year playing golf all day? Or that we think we're going to be like the doctors on ER, enjoying an adrenaline rush saving people's lives non-stop? Well, I already know doctors don't make as much money as they used to and the payments on loans incurred during med school can be huge, doctors don't have much spare time for things like playing golf, and that ER is an unrealistic depiction of medicine (heck, I've never even watched it.) Next! See my point? Why are these programs so skeptical about our motives? If I can simply STATE that I'm aware that medical school is very stressful and time-consuming, and that the practice of medicine is very demanding, why isn't that good enough?
My ire was particularly aroused in the other thread when Superflyjsc wrote:
So, basically, Superflyjsc let an interviewer, someone who had never been to medical school himself, talk him out of trying to become a doctor because he didn't "realize what he was getting himself into." I'm sorry, but I think that's bogus. How was the interviewer so confidently able to state what he did? Could he read the guy's mind? Did he think this person believed he was going to get his MD then spend the rest of his life sitting in his office smoking a pipe and getting paid $300k/year for it? We all know doctors work hard. We all know the first 2 years of med school are like trying to drink from a fire hose, that 3rd year consists of slaving away long hours in the hospital getting chewed out by residents and attendings. We all know that residents work more than 80 hours a week, that every few nights they have call and have to stay up all night working, that they're stressed out dealing with life and death situations which they don't feel they're adequately prepared for. We all know that doctors have to be able to stand the sight of blood, that they have to be around sick people all day, that even in private practice they continue to have to work more than standard business hours, that they don't make as much money and aren't as respected as they used to be, that they get sued at the drop of a hat, that they have to study continously to keep up with advances in medicine, that insurance companies and the government continue to take autonomy away from them, that they sometimes feel like they don't have time for their families, that their work is never done. WE GET IT!!! Now, medical schools want us to do some volunteering and shadowing before applying? Fine; I can't complain about that. But why, oh why, should we have to practically have our MD's already just to get into a freaking post-baccalaureate pre-medical program?!
This brings me to my main point, my thesis, if you will. LilyMD wrote in the other thread:
I think this points to what's really going on here. See that phrase "weeding-out process"? Here's my theory: this isn't really about knowing what we're getting into at all. It's simply an elaborate set of hoops to be jumped through, constructed to force us to prove our dedication to entering the field of medicine. The purpose isn't to confirm that we can stand the sight of blood, or to get us excited about helping people, but merely to prove that when those in authority in the medical education process say "jump", we will say "how high?" It's a weeding out process because if I start to say to myself "you know what? This isn't really worth it. It's dumb to have to have been an EMT or a phlebotomist in order to get into medical school. If that's what it takes, forget it; I'm not interested," then the hoops will have served their purpose: discouraging someone who wasn't quite 110% gung-ho about the whole process. If, on the other hand, I've already done a ton of volunteering and become an EMT, I've proven that I'm willing to do whatever it takes, since I'm jumping through the hoops on my own initiative. The experiences wouldn't even really need to involve seeing medicine. A post-bacc interviewer could just as well say "in order to get into med school, you need to be able to stand on your head and whistle the Star-Spangled Banner backwards, so prove to me that you can do that now." If I hesitate and say "why?", their response would be "well, I guess you don't really want to be a doctor that badly, do you? Next!"
So, who agrees with my theory?
My conclusion for my own life is that I AM definitely going to do this. If I let this system discourage me, THEY will have proven that I wasn't really dedicated to becoming a doctor. I can't let them win, now, can I?
[/rant]
Edited 25-Feb-2004 8:17AM to correct spelling & punctuation
Am I the only one who thinks that having to have volunteered in hospitals and shadowed physicians just to get into a post-bacc program (let alone medical school) is nothing more than an incredibly annoying system of hoops to be jumped through? Everyone says "you have to know what you're getting into." Fair enough. But look: why is it assumed that, unless one has rolled patients around in the ER, observed a surgery, and followed an FP doc around the clinic for a day, one has a completely unrealistic view of medicine and MUST only be trying to enter it on a whim? I talked to a pre-med advisor a few weeks ago and almost argued with her on this point. She said, "well, you have to have seen how busy an ER can get, listened to a resident bitching about being overworked, etc." Why? Everyone knows residents have to work 80 hours a week and 30 hour straight shifts when on call. See? I just proved I know that, by stating it. Now, why do I need to listen to a resident tell it to me? I already know!
Really, what are these programs so afraid of? What is the bad thing they think is going to happen if they admit people who haven't observed an ER? Are they worried about little stuff, like students finding out they can't stand the sight of blood? Well, I already know I can. Next! Are they worried we think we're just going to make $500k/year playing golf all day? Or that we think we're going to be like the doctors on ER, enjoying an adrenaline rush saving people's lives non-stop? Well, I already know doctors don't make as much money as they used to and the payments on loans incurred during med school can be huge, doctors don't have much spare time for things like playing golf, and that ER is an unrealistic depiction of medicine (heck, I've never even watched it.) Next! See my point? Why are these programs so skeptical about our motives? If I can simply STATE that I'm aware that medical school is very stressful and time-consuming, and that the practice of medicine is very demanding, why isn't that good enough?
My ire was particularly aroused in the other thread when Superflyjsc wrote:
I went in for my interview at Upenn and I felt i did really well in the interview and questions the interviewer has asked however, becuase of my lack of healthcare experience, the interviewer really questioned my reasoning for changing my career to medicine. He told me flat out that becuase i do not have much of a healthcare background, I do not fully realize what I am getting myself into. As it turns out, becuase of that i got rejected from the program and I was a lil dissapointed however that experience really made me think. Did i really know what i was getting myself into?
To make a long story short, after long long consideration, i realized that medicine may not have been best path for me.
So, basically, Superflyjsc let an interviewer, someone who had never been to medical school himself, talk him out of trying to become a doctor because he didn't "realize what he was getting himself into." I'm sorry, but I think that's bogus. How was the interviewer so confidently able to state what he did? Could he read the guy's mind? Did he think this person believed he was going to get his MD then spend the rest of his life sitting in his office smoking a pipe and getting paid $300k/year for it? We all know doctors work hard. We all know the first 2 years of med school are like trying to drink from a fire hose, that 3rd year consists of slaving away long hours in the hospital getting chewed out by residents and attendings. We all know that residents work more than 80 hours a week, that every few nights they have call and have to stay up all night working, that they're stressed out dealing with life and death situations which they don't feel they're adequately prepared for. We all know that doctors have to be able to stand the sight of blood, that they have to be around sick people all day, that even in private practice they continue to have to work more than standard business hours, that they don't make as much money and aren't as respected as they used to be, that they get sued at the drop of a hat, that they have to study continously to keep up with advances in medicine, that insurance companies and the government continue to take autonomy away from them, that they sometimes feel like they don't have time for their families, that their work is never done. WE GET IT!!! Now, medical schools want us to do some volunteering and shadowing before applying? Fine; I can't complain about that. But why, oh why, should we have to practically have our MD's already just to get into a freaking post-baccalaureate pre-medical program?!
This brings me to my main point, my thesis, if you will. LilyMD wrote in the other thread:
There's a good reason post-baccs want to see some sort of exposure to health care --- because they want to make sure that you're committed to medicine because if you're not it will be difficult to make through this arduous weeding-out process.
...
Many of these programs pride themselves and boast of high med. school acceptance rates, while I'm sure the supportive atmosphere has something to do with it, I suspect that the real success lies in only accepting those who probably have backgrounds and academic experiences that would probably get them into medical school anyway.
I think this points to what's really going on here. See that phrase "weeding-out process"? Here's my theory: this isn't really about knowing what we're getting into at all. It's simply an elaborate set of hoops to be jumped through, constructed to force us to prove our dedication to entering the field of medicine. The purpose isn't to confirm that we can stand the sight of blood, or to get us excited about helping people, but merely to prove that when those in authority in the medical education process say "jump", we will say "how high?" It's a weeding out process because if I start to say to myself "you know what? This isn't really worth it. It's dumb to have to have been an EMT or a phlebotomist in order to get into medical school. If that's what it takes, forget it; I'm not interested," then the hoops will have served their purpose: discouraging someone who wasn't quite 110% gung-ho about the whole process. If, on the other hand, I've already done a ton of volunteering and become an EMT, I've proven that I'm willing to do whatever it takes, since I'm jumping through the hoops on my own initiative. The experiences wouldn't even really need to involve seeing medicine. A post-bacc interviewer could just as well say "in order to get into med school, you need to be able to stand on your head and whistle the Star-Spangled Banner backwards, so prove to me that you can do that now." If I hesitate and say "why?", their response would be "well, I guess you don't really want to be a doctor that badly, do you? Next!"
So, who agrees with my theory?
My conclusion for my own life is that I AM definitely going to do this. If I let this system discourage me, THEY will have proven that I wasn't really dedicated to becoming a doctor. I can't let them win, now, can I?
[/rant]
Edited 25-Feb-2004 8:17AM to correct spelling & punctuation