Respiratory Care major for med school?

[panicMode]

This is my first time on SDN, posting a thread. I'm currently a freshman, planning to go to med school. I know you can apply to med school regardless of your undergrad major and all that good stuff. My university offers respiratory care as a major, with clinical exposure. I thought since i could be any major i wanted to be, why not choose something that will expose me to the medical aspect. I was wondering if majoring in respiratory care would be a good idea, with the hope of getting into med school? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

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[Droopy Snoopy]

This is my first time on SDN, posting a thread. I'm currently a freshman, planning to go to med school. I know you can apply to med school regardless of your undergrad major and all that good stuff. My university offers respiratory care as a major, with clinical exposure. I thought since i could be any major i wanted to be, why not choose something that will expose me to the medical aspect. I was wondering if majoring in respiratory care would be a good idea, with the hope of getting into med school? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Majors like this I put on-par with nursing and pharmacy as having several great upsides. Not only give you exposure to healthcare in the broad sense, but you'll likely get real exposure to potential physician mentors. I'm not familiar with the coursework but would imagine you'll get a good bit of biochem and physiology which will help in the pre-clinical med school years. The practical knowledge/experience of resp care (vent settings, PFTs, PSGs, asthma treatment, etc) will come in handy in the clinical years and even residency. If nothing else it's a good back-up plan, which isn't something that most pre-meds think they need but statistically the majority do.

 

[BF2BC EMT]

This is my first time on SDN, posting a thread. I'm currently a freshman, planning to go to med school. I know you can apply to med school regardless of your undergrad major and all that good stuff. My university offers respiratory care as a major, with clinical exposure. I thought since i could be any major i wanted to be, why not choose something that will expose me to the medical aspect. I was wondering if majoring in respiratory care would be a good idea, with the hope of getting into med school? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Eh, around here RT progs are hard to get into, like 50 applicants for one seat. Some people wait 2 years for a chance to get in. Why would you take a seat of someone who wants to make a career out of it? Knowing your not going to stay long is not cool. Now if your going to work 5+ years go ahead and do it. Other then that no.

 

[panicMode]

I currently attend Stony Brook University and as a freshman, if you were to declare respiratory care as your major, you are automatically accept without having to go through the interview process. Tic, that's the idea i have in mind. We would have to take anatomy & physiology, pharmacology, pathology, and other courses among this line. I thought if i'm going to work hard in my undergrad, why not do something that will help me for med school, that's if i get in. After reading other post, i was afraid med school do not really except these kinds of major. But i'm still naive. And "BF2BC EMT" I wouldn't be really taking anyone's seat because if i don't get into med school first time, i will have this as my back up and work for a year or so and try again. I hope it will benefit me, that's all.

 

[Hoody]

Respiratory Care is pretty cool though I am fascinated with pulmonology so you might not enjoy it as much as me. It would definitley give you some career options beyone medical school.

The only downside to it is that some of the clinical courses may be P/F (as in Nursing) and thus will not count towards GPA. Also, I am guessing that you will have preset clinical days in which you may end up spending several hours, if not the whole day, at the hospital. Carefully plan out your med school pre req's so that you are not taking OChem, Physics, and trying to complete clinicals at the same time. Usually lots of tedious BS busy work involved with clinicals.

I'm assuming you will have to take bio and chem anyway, maybe even biochem or ochem. so that will knock out a chunk of med school pre-reqs.

 

[torshi]

Yea it's unique and not too many people major in that, so you stick out.

Good luck

 

[Astarael]

I thought I'd drop in and explain some of the downsides I've heard of for doing an applied science major like what you're talking about. Certainly it's do-able, but you will run into problems such as:

1) The academic rigor of your courses will be suspicious. A lot of the courses for applied sciences are not as rigorous as the corresponding course for the basic science major. An example might be that many nursing schools have one semester worth of anatomy and physiology, while a pre-med might take a full semester of each. This is not to say that you can't find classes that are as rigorous as if you took a physical science major, but it will be more difficult and it will be on you to prove that the classes you took were as challenging as the classes everyone else took.

2) Even though you have clinical experience built into your major, it won't necessarily cover the things you need to have covered going into an application cycle. Specifically, you need to know what it is that a doctor does. Therefore, you will still need to shadow a physician regardless of how many hours you spend in a hospital during your clinicals.

3) It will be difficult to explain to an interviewer why you decided to 'switch' from doing respiratory therapy to being a doctor. Somebody already mentioned this, but the perception (even if it is not true) will be that you took somebody's seat without meaning to follow through on the education. Respiratory therapy is a career path educational program, so you'll have to either justify your decision to pursue it as preparation for medical school, or justify your decision to switch out of it.

If you want to read through some more discussion, search the forum for a "Should I do nursing for pre-med?" thread. Many of the arguments for and against it will be the same for respiratory therapy. This is a question that gets asked much more frequently for nursing than RT.

 

[Hoody]

1) The academic rigor of your courses will be suspicious. A lot of the courses for applied sciences are not as rigorous as the corresponding course for the basic science major. An example might be that many nursing schools have one semester worth of anatomy and physiology, while a pre-med might take a full semester of each. This is not to say that you can't find classes that are as rigorous as if you took a physical science major, but it will be more difficult and it will be on you to prove that the classes you took were as challenging as the classes everyone else took.

This is school dependent. At my school, nurses took the same science courses as pre med students.

2) Even though you have clinical experience built into your major, it won't necessarily cover the things you need to have covered going into an application cycle. Specifically, you need to know what it is that a doctor does. Therefore, you will still need to shadow a physician regardless of how many hours you spend in a hospital during your clinicals.

Incorrect. You do not need to shadow a physician if you have significant clinical experience working with physicans.

3) It will be difficult to explain to an interviewer why you decided to 'switch' from doing respiratory therapy to being a doctor. Somebody already mentioned this, but the perception (even if it is not true) will be that you took somebody's seat without meaning to follow through on the education. Respiratory therapy is a career path educational program, so you'll have to either justify your decision to pursue it as preparation for medical school, or justify your decision to switch out of it.

Incorrect. Its not that hard to understand why medical related training might lead one to consider and apply to actual medical school. There are quite a few RN's, RT's, etc., that go on to be doctors. If the applicant is passionate about becoming a doctor, it wont matter that his or her seat in some other program, several years back, could have went to someone else.

I'm an RN, and I am applying this cycle. If anything, my clinical experience and undergraduate background has made me stand out among the crowd. Feel free to PM me, OP.

 

[torshi]

Eh, around here RT progs are hard to get into, like 50 applicants for one seat. Some people wait 2 years for a chance to get in. Why would you take a seat of someone who wants to make a career out of it? Knowing your not going to stay long is not cool. Now if your going to work 5+ years go ahead and do it. Other then that no.

BFBC2 EMT= lol
xbox?

 

[Astarael]

This is school dependent. At my school, nurses took the same science courses as pre med students.

Incorrect. You do not need to shadow a physician if you have significant clinical experience working with physicans.

Incorrect. Its not that hard to understand why medical related training might lead one to consider and apply to actual medical school. There are quite a few RN's, RT's, etc., that go on to be doctors. If the applicant is passionate about becoming a doctor, it wont matter that his or her seat in some other program, several years back, could have went to someone else.

I'm an RN, and I am applying this cycle. If anything, my clinical experience and undergraduate background has made me stand out among the crowd. Feel free to PM me, OP.

Just saying that I'm incorrect doesn't make it so. You're right that everything I said is school dependent, and you're also right that many RNs and RTs go on to become doctors. However, the assumption that educational work in a clinical science field will adequately prepare someone for applying to medical school is just not true. It MIGHT prepare you. But going through RT training teaches you to be an RT, and doesn't give you a lot of time to see what a doctor does. In addition, there's a difference between becoming an RT or an RN and then deciding you want to be a doctor versus planning to be a doctor all along. I'm not saying it can't be done, I'm just saying that there are still significant problems that you can run into along the way. Your out of hand dismissal of the points I made is really not going to help the OP make a successful plan if he/she decides to go that route.

 

[BF2BC EMT]

BFBC2 EMT= lol
xbox?

something funny?

 

[Musclemass]

I'm an RN, and I am applying this cycle. If anything, my clinical experience and undergraduate background has made me stand out among the crowd.

There's Good-standing out, Bad-standing out, and just standing out (being different in a way that is neither positive or negative).

Don't assume that your background as an RN necessarily puts you in the first category. Or that everyone would look on it the same way.

 

[StudyShy]

1) The academic rigor of your courses will be suspicious. A lot of the courses for applied sciences are not as rigorous as the corresponding course for the basic science major. An example might be that many nursing schools have one semester worth of anatomy and physiology, while a pre-med might take a full semester of each. This is not to say that you can't find classes that are as rigorous as if you took a physical science major, but it will be more difficult and it will be on you to prove that the classes you took were as challenging as the classes everyone else took.

I don't know of any nursing programs that only have one semester of A + P unless you are thinking of an LPN program. He/she would have to the same general biology, general physics, general chemistry, and organic chemistry to be considered an applicant just like anyone else.

2) Even though you have clinical experience built into your major, it won't necessarily cover the things you need to have covered going into an application cycle. Specifically, you need to know what it is that a doctor does. Therefore, you will still need to shadow a physician regardless of how many hours you spend in a hospital during your clinicals.

It seems silly, especially after you sit next to a physician for 12+ hours/day at work that you still need to shadow with one, but this is still a good idea. Try to get in 50+ hours of shadowing time. In addition, a well-rounded applicant would probably need shadowing time with a physician + clinical exposure + volunteering, and depending on the program, research.

There are some major downsides of majoring in something healthcare related, as stupid as that sounds. You will always face the stigma as being inferior to any other group applying to med school. You are practically better off majoring in English than anything related to taking care of patients.

It will be very difficult, like someone above has mentioned, to complete clinical hours and take the traditional pre-med courses because the time scheduled for clinical hours might contradict with lecture and lab times. In my nursing program, we were assigned times and places to go. This schedule can change within a semester and from semester to semester. It made it difficult to take classes outside of the nursing program because usually we didn't know our schedule until after classes started.

 

[StudyShy]

There's Good-standing out, Bad-standing out, and just standing out (being different in a way that is neither positive or negative).

Don't assume that your background as an RN necessarily puts you in the first category. Or that everyone would look on it the same way.

I consider my nursing degree as a kiss of death. Most likely, it will be viewed extremely negatively when the time comes to apply. It's just part of the attitute of elite status that some pre-meds and physicians have.

DO schools might be a little kinder to people with previous backrounds in healthcare.

 

[TheGrand]

Just saying that I'm incorrect doesn't make it so. You're right that everything I said is school dependent, and you're also right that many RNs and RTs go on to become doctors. However, the assumption that educational work in a clinical science field will adequately prepare someone for applying to medical school is just not true. It MIGHT prepare you. But going through RT training teaches you to be an RT, and doesn't give you a lot of time to see what a doctor does. In addition, there's a difference between becoming an RT or an RN and then deciding you want to be a doctor versus planning to be a doctor all along. I'm not saying it can't be done, I'm just saying that there are still significant problems that you can run into along the way. Your out of hand dismissal of the points I made is really not going to help the OP make a successful plan if he/she decides to go that route.

There's a reason that medical schools only require the basic science classes for admissions. It's meant to give you the scientific foundation you need for medical school. The undergraduate coursework is meant for maturity and a time to explore yourself. It's not a time to become a drone whose only focus and life is to get into medical school.

Doing the usually academic majors (biology, chemistry, biochemistry, etc.) WILL give you a leg up in medical school but it doesn't mean that people doing other majors (nursing, RT, engineering, ghost hunting, etc) are at a disadvantage because they didn't have the advance science coursework but instead only have the minimum science requirements. It's like taking all those level 400's science classes just for MCAT. Sure, you know more but it may or may not help in you for the test.

Medical schools will teach you all you need to know. Besides, doing a clinical science major such as as respiratory care will give you a tremendous leg up in clinical science than other academic science majors. Clinical science majors have more practical experience in the real world.

 

[Astarael]

There's a reason that medical schools only require the basic science classes for admissions. It's meant to give you the scientific foundation you need for medical school. The undergraduate coursework is meant for maturity and a time to explore yourself. It's not a time to become a drone whose only focus and life is to get into medical school.

Doing the usually academic majors (biology, chemistry, biochemistry, etc.) WILL give you a leg up in medical school but it doesn't mean that people doing other majors (nursing, RT, engineering, ghost hunting, etc) are at a disadvantage because they didn't have the advance science coursework but instead only have the minimum science requirements. It's like taking all those level 400's science classes just for MCAT. Sure, you know more but it may or may not help in you for the test.

Medical schools will teach you all you need to know. Besides, doing a clinical science major such as as respiratory care will give you a tremendous leg up in clinical science than other academic science majors. Clinical science majors have more practical experience in the real world.

I didn't really mean that comment to apply to your preparedness for medical school, but rather for how you will look in front of an admissions committee. Medical school will certainly teach you what you need to know in order to be a doctor, whether you take all of the advanced classes or not. What I meant (and should have stated explicitly) was that when the admissions committee looks at the academic rigor of your program, you'll be in a better position if they think you challenged yourself. Which is also not to say that applied science programs are easy, but it is possible that an admissions committee would not see them as being equal to a standard B.A. or B.S.

I'm not saying all of this to step on anyone's toes or to insult the applied sciences. Nurses, respiratory therapists, etc. all have important jobs to do. Still, it is important to consider what the admissions committee will think of your educational background, and whether or not they will have any fairly or unfairly earned bias for/against it. It's a similar situation with community college: there are many community colleges that offer a great education for whatever area you are majoring in. But for someone who isn't personally acquainted with your curriculum, the person from the big university will win every time. Maybe it isn't fair, and maybe it doesn't always happen, but it is important to be aware of the fact that such stigmas exist and you may have to argue your way through it.

 

[Cleavername]

This is my first time on SDN, posting a thread. I'm currently a freshman, planning to go to med school. I know you can apply to med school regardless of your undergrad major and all that good stuff. My university offers respiratory care as a major, with clinical exposure. I thought since i could be any major i wanted to be, why not choose something that will expose me to the medical aspect. I was wondering if majoring in respiratory care would be a good idea, with the hope of getting into med school? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

my skool offers that as well in its hospital. the upside of it are pretty much all in this thread. the downside is that u wont be compeptive for med skool for a bit because those programs are selective, ur med skool interviewer is going to ask u why take up this spot for some one who wanted to be there for that job when u wanted to go to med skool at the end? the program director told me that if u do choose this route, and want to go on to med skool later, its going to take atleast 2 years after u graduate before u become competitive. also the grading of these type of programs are weird, they often require clinical performances, which is a very uncertain aspect to me. by that i mean i dunno for sure that i can get an A in it by working hard alone.

 

[StudyShy]

me. by that i mean i dunno for sure that i can get an A in it by working hard alone.

This is definitely something to consider. Grading scales are usually different. For most of my nursing courses, an A- started at 92 %. So even if you got a 91 %, you still only have a B+. In one class, you had to get a 94 or greater to be in the A range. That leaves a very small margin for poor performance.

Credit hours themselves are different. I had a 9 credit hour class. This was my first nursing class, and I got a B. Good bye 4.0. Credit for clinical hours might be combined with your regular courses or separate and may only be pass/fail.

 

[LizzyM]

There are adcom members who will consider vocational majors as less rigorous than engineering or even liberal arts. You may be considered somewhat dumb, even with a perfect gpa, in comparison to a student with a lower gpa in a more rigorous course of study. This may have no relationship to reality but it is a prejudice that is out there.

There are time-sink clinicals with vocational majors that will make it difficult to spend time on what you should be focusing on and that will preclude fitting in the classes you'd like to be taking.

It does look as if you are indecisive to take a vocational major and then change your mind and decide on professional school. Be prepared to answer why you chose RT and why you chose to leave RT.

If you have not practiced, it is even worse.... why do all that schooling and then not use it? are you going to go to medical school, walk out the door and do a MFA in creative writing? Do you know what you want????

These questions aren't coming from me but are the sorts of stuff I hear at adcom meetings or written comments about vocational majors.

 

[StudyShy]

Sometimes, I think that the prejudice against health students is a little silly since it is perfectly acceptable to major in engineering or art history but never actually work in those fields. It's just because of the historical relationship between health-related fields and physicians that carries through to the present time.

 

[gravitywave]

Sometimes, I think that the prejudice against health students is a little silly since it is perfectly acceptable to major in engineering or art history but never actually work in those fields. It's just because of the historical relationship between health-related fields and physicians that carries through to the present time.

maybe, maybe not. when you go to school for a degree that specifically prepares you for a career - nursing or RT for example - the implicit understanding is that you have an interest in working in that field. there is relatively little elective time compared to a liberal arts degree or even a B.S. the focus is on preparing you to work in that field and little else.

I can understand the concern of adcoms who don't consider people from these backgrounds in the same light as someone with a more traditional preparation. it may be as you say, that this bias is a historical artifact. but for the most part i think it reflects concern over, if not the rigor of the training, perhaps instead its nature. by and large, career training programs simply lack the spirit of intellectual inquiry that a broader-based BS/BA program provides - no matter the focus. being a physician requires a fundamentally different mental approach than being an allied health professional, and adcoms are selecting for people who have a proven track record of success in that type of environment. i think you'll agree that most nurses have a different attitude toward their work than most doctors do toward theirs. the professional ethos is markedly different. isn't that a factor in why you've chosen to move out of nursing and into a climate where you will be more comfortable, where the challenges are a better fit for you?

none of that is to say that allied health folks can't become outstanding doctors, or even that they necessarily face obstacles. people with a solid work record in their field and who have otherwise demonstrated good potential as a physician (ie, jumped nicely through all the hoops everyone else had to, instead of thinking that paid work in health care trumps any of that) have an excellent chance for admission. they are genuine assets in a medical school class. in pretty much every case though, if someone is asking as a college freshman whether it's a better bet to go with an allied health major - especially when it's couched in terms of being a "good backup," the answer is no.

you have a point with the engineering folks who are not going into the field they trained for... i would say though that 1) not all engineering programs are complete preparation for a career as an engineer in the way that allied health programs are for theirs, and 2) i'd still contend that engineering is more broad-based and intellectually expansive than the majority of RT programs out there.

 

[StudyShy]

maybe, maybe not. when you go to school for a degree that specifically prepares you for a career - nursing or RT for example - the implicit understanding is that you have an interest in working in that field. there is relatively little elective time compared to a liberal arts degree or even a B.S. the focus is on preparing you to work in that field and little else.

I can understand the concern of adcoms who don't consider people from these backgrounds in the same light as someone with a more traditional preparation. it may be as you say, that this bias is a historical artifact. but for the most part i think it reflects concern over, if not the rigor of the training, perhaps instead its nature. by and large, career training programs simply lack the spirit of intellectual inquiry that a broader-based BS/BA program provides - no matter the focus. being a physician requires a fundamentally different mental approach than being an allied health professional, and adcoms are selecting for people who have a proven track record of success in that type of environment. i think you'll agree that most nurses have a different attitude toward their work than most doctors do toward theirs. the professional ethos is markedly different. isn't that a factor in why you've chosen to move out of nursing and into a climate where you will be more comfortable, where the challenges are a better fit for you?

none of that is to say that allied health folks can't become outstanding doctors, or even that they necessarily face obstacles. people with a solid work record in their field and who have otherwise demonstrated good potential as a physician (ie, jumped nicely through all the hoops everyone else had to, instead of thinking that paid work in health care trumps any of that) have an excellent chance for admission. they are genuine assets in a medical school class. in pretty much every case though, if someone is asking as a college freshman whether it's a better bet to go with an allied health major - especially when it's couched in terms of being a "good backup," the answer is no.

you have a point with the engineering folks who are not going into the field they trained for... i would say though that 1) not all engineering programs are complete preparation for a career as an engineer in the way that allied health programs are for theirs, and 2) i'd still contend that engineering is more broad-based and intellectually expansive than the majority of RT programs out there.

My decision to become a physician does partially stem from desiring greater responsibility and challenge than what I currently have, however I fail to see how my work ethic and professionalism differ so greatly compared to that of a physician.

A person with a health-related bachelor's degree does have a proven track record in the hosptial environment in at least the respect that they can handle some of the rigors of patient care. The very nature of health-related programs is to care for patients; this goes hand in hand with the goals of being a caring and competent physician.

Those who have completed their bachelor's degree in nursing have fulfilled the general education requirements deemed necessary for their university. Many BSN students go beyond the minimum 120-130 credit hours because of variances of requirements between schools when transferring between ADN and BSN programs. Personally, I had over 200 credit hours in everything from astronomy to women's literature before I was awarded my bachelor's degree.

Nursing does encompass the spirit of inquiry. It champions evidence-based research and promotes curiosity among its students. I had to take several nursing research courses which laid the foundation for statistical interpretation in studies that ultimately allowed me to complete a senior project on fertility awareness methods by creating a web site and conducting pretests and posttests on FAM methods learned by perusing the site. Other students focused on topics such as hand washing compliance in the OR at U of M, polypharmacy in elders, and hospice care. Although, these attempts are admittedly very simplified, they still represent the pursuit for knowledge at least on par with fields such as the social sciences.

That all said, there is a strong bias against other health professionals; whether this bias stems from historical tensions is up for debate. The prejudice remains, and that is just the way things are. It's far better to major in something that is completely separated from the health care environment if you want the respect of physicians. Lesson learned. Nurses are viewed as stupid, ignorant, and unprofessional by outsiders.

 

[Siggy]

Incorrect. You do not need to shadow a physician if you have significant clinical experience working with physicans.

School dependent, some schools specifically require shadowing, however this is much more common for DO schools.

 

[Hoody]

when you go to school for a degree that specifically prepares you for a career - nursing or RT for example - the implicit understanding is that you have an interest in working in that field.

So what you're saying is that if you start your career in something, you are supposed to stay in that career forever because when you started it, you gave the implicit understanding that you were interested in it? People change careers everyday.

there is relatively little elective time compared to a liberal arts degree or even a B.S. the focus is on preparing you to work in that field and little else.

You would know that how? Let me guess, someone who once majored in it told you or you looked at a course catalog and came to that determination yourself. Oh wait, you probably read it on SDN.

I can understand the concern of adcoms who don't consider people from these backgrounds in the same light as someone with a more traditional preparation. it may be as you say, that this bias is a historical artifact.

Do you have some sort of evidence that backs up these claims that adcoms look at specific majors differently or are you just repeating SDN propaganda?

but for the most part i think it reflects concern over, if not the rigor of the training, perhaps instead its nature. by and large, career training programs simply lack the spirit of intellectual inquiry that a broader-based BS/BA program provides - no matter the focus.

Just curious if you know what the first two letters in BSN stand for? I'm guessing it stands for Bachelors of Science . Hopefully you also understand what evidence based research is.

being a physician requires a fundamentally different mental approach than being an allied health professional, and adcoms are selecting for people who have a proven track record of success in that type of environment.

Being a physician requires a fundamentally different mental approach than being a biologist, or chemist, or biochemist, or any other major.

i think you'll agree that most nurses have a different attitude toward their work than most doctors do toward theirs.

according to? you? how many nurses have you had real working experience with?

the professional ethos is markedly different.

according to? you?

isn't that a factor in why you've chosen to move out of nursing and into a climate where you will be more comfortable, where the challenges are a better fit for you?

again, more generalizations.....

in pretty much every case though, if someone is asking as a college freshman whether it's a better bet to go with an allied health major - especially when it's couched in terms of being a "good backup," the answer is no.

again, according to who? you?


Terrible post, man.

 

[Hoody]

School dependent, some schools specifically require shadowing, however this is much more common for DO schools.

I applied to almost every school (MD/DO) without any shadowing experience but with thousands of hours of clinical experience working with physicians. My lack of shadowing has not come up once. I did, however, have very strong LORs from each an MD and a DO.


I also know of a few other SDNers without any shadowing....one in particular who now goes to Harvard.

 

[IHOPness]

maybe, maybe not. when you go to school for a degree that specifically prepares you for a career - nursing or RT for example - the implicit understanding is that you have an interest in working in that field. there is relatively little elective time compared to a liberal arts degree or even a B.S. the focus is on preparing you to work in that field and little else.

I can understand the concern of adcoms who don't consider people from these backgrounds in the same light as someone with a more traditional preparation. it may be as you say, that this bias is a historical artifact. but for the most part i think it reflects concern over, if not the rigor of the training, perhaps instead its nature. by and large, career training programs simply lack the spirit of intellectual inquiry that a broader-based BS/BA program provides - no matter the focus. being a physician requires a fundamentally different mental approach than being an allied health professional, and adcoms are selecting for people who have a proven track record of success in that type of environment. i think you'll agree that most nurses have a different attitude toward their work than most doctors do toward theirs. the professional ethos is markedly different. isn't that a factor in why you've chosen to move out of nursing and into a climate where you will be more comfortable, where the challenges are a better fit for you?

none of that is to say that allied health folks can't become outstanding doctors, or even that they necessarily face obstacles. people with a solid work record in their field and who have otherwise demonstrated good potential as a physician (ie, jumped nicely through all the hoops everyone else had to, instead of thinking that paid work in health care trumps any of that) have an excellent chance for admission. they are genuine assets in a medical school class. in pretty much every case though, if someone is asking as a college freshman whether it's a better bet to go with an allied health major - especially when it's couched in terms of being a "good backup," the answer is no.

you have a point with the engineering folks who are not going into the field they trained for... i would say though that 1) not all engineering programs are complete preparation for a career as an engineer in the way that allied health programs are for theirs, and 2) i'd still contend that engineering is more broad-based and intellectually expansive than the majority of RT programs out there.

Dude, nurses are hot. Don't hate on the nurses.

 

[Siggy]

I applied to almost every school (MD/DO) without any shadowing experience but with thousands of hours of clinical experience working with physicians. My lack of shadowing has not come up once. I did, however, have very strong LORs from each an MD and a DO.


I also know of a few other SDNers without any shadowing....one in particular who now goes to Harvard.

Did you get an interview everywhere?

Does Harvard SPECIFICALLY mention shadowing as a requirement (in contrast to a recommendation)?

 

[Hoody]

Did you get an interview everywhere?

Does Harvard SPECIFICALLY mention shadowing as a requirement (in contrast to a recommendation)?

yeah....and I'm not sure, as I didn't pay attention to that. I figured if my clinical time wasn't enough, nothing else would be .

I wouldn't recommend no shadowing, but if you have several thousand hours of clinical experience working side by side with physicians, you'll be fine. I would have done some proper shadowing, but the physicians I asked actually told me I didn't need to and to just say I did, they would "vouch" for me. I ended up not saying I did, just to be honest though. If I were a frosh (instead of a post grad changing careers) I would try to fit it in regardless of my major.

 

[Siggy]

I applied to almost every school (MD/DO) without any shadowing experience

yeah....and I'm not sure, as I didn't pay attention to that. I figured if my clinical time wasn't enough, nothing else would be .

I wouldn't recommend no shadowing, but if you have several thousand hours of clinical experience working side by side with physicians, you'll be fine. I would have done some proper shadowing, but the physicians I asked actually told me I didn't need to and to just say I did, they would "vouch" for me. I ended up not saying I did, just to be honest though. If I were a frosh (instead of a post grad changing careers) I would try to fit it in regardless of my major.

So how many interviews did you go to, 100+?

I won't argue that there are other options than shadowing, but will argue that clinical experience, even in areas with physicians, isn't necessarily the same as shadowing, regardless of the length of time.

Similarly, shadowing, given an otherwise solid application, will most likely neither make nor break an application.

 

[Hoody]

So how many interviews did you go to, 100+?

no

applying to that many schools is highly unrecommended.

 

[Siggy]

So you, in fact, did not apply to almost every school, MD or DO then...

 

[StudyShy]

I look forward to shadowing with some physicians. I probably won't shadow with anyone at the hospital that I work at because I know that it would be seen as kind of silly. I literally share an office with the ER doctors, and when I work on the floor, usually I sit right next to the physicians. We eat lunch together, post on each other's fb accounts, and ask advice from one another. They are very nice people, and I am fortunate that I don't feel any hostility or inferiority for being in a position so far beneath that of a physician.

I'm not sure whether I'll tell my prospective shadowing physician that I am a nurse. I can just say that I'm working on my premed requirements and my master's degree in history. That way they will explain things and treat me like a more traditional student. I'll be using this opportunity to explore the field that I want to go into; therefore, I have several OB/GYNs in mind to ask for mentoring time. Nursing OB positions are difficult to get into at the moment. I've applied to maybe 20 in the last couple of years. There are hiring freezes in my area which makes things difficult, otherwise I would be working directly in OB to gain more experience.

 

[Hoody]

Nursing OB positions are difficult to get into at the moment. I've applied to maybe 20 in the last couple of years. There are hiring freezes in my area which makes things difficult, otherwise I would be working directly in OB to gain more experience.

whats up with this anyway? I feel like market is over saturated. We have a few holes in my rural ICU, but its not bad enough that we are hiring new grads....or anyone without crit care experience. I also applied to some nursing grad programs in case I didn't get in docta school, the competition is stiff! my mediocre GPA and average GRE have been hot topics whereas med school hasn't focused much at all on GPA.

GL to you, Shy!

 

[StudyShy]

whats up with this anyway? I feel like market is over saturated. We have a few holes in my rural ICU, but its not bad enough that we are hiring new grads....or anyone without crit care experience. I also applied to some nursing grad programs in case I didn't get in docta school, the competition is stiff! my mediocre GPA and average GRE have been hot topics whereas med school hasn't focused much at all on GPA.

GL to you, Shy!

They say it is because the nurses who retired went back to work in the hospital, however I don't see this to be the case in at least my area. My local hospitals just aren't hiring, and the floors are as short as ever. I know of several new grads who cannot find jobs at the moment which is scary. It was not like this when I graduated from school. People begged for nurses.

I'm still rocking a good GPA and still I sweated bullets when I applied to nurse midwifery school. People were stalking the school's fb discussion board for months about acceptances. Competition was stiff. It seems like everyone is getting an NP degree. I was in nurse midwifery school, but I feel like obstetrics will ultimately be a better fit for me in the long run. My school wasn't too happy with the fact that I wanted to go to medical school after midwifery school. I wasn't really aware of the tensions between midwives and physicians before. Midwives, at least at the school that I went to, hate/envy physicians. Unfortunately, I can't have the best of both worlds, and I created a hostile environment for myself for aspiring to learn more about medicine and women's health. Their loss, I guess.

Good luck to you too, Hoody. What school are you going to? Have you decided yet?

 

[gravitywave]

My decision to become a physician does partially stem from desiring greater responsibility and challenge than what I currently have, however I fail to see how my work ethic and professionalism differ so greatly compared to that of a physician.

I never impugned your work ethic, or your professionalism. In fact, I really do respect the fact that you are leaving behind one profession in which you have made an enormous investment, in order to move into another for which you know you are better suited. I suggested that the two professions approach their work differently, because they have different jobs to do. The character ("ethos" comes from the Attic Greek for "character" or "a person's nature or disposition.") of the work is different, therefore the persons drawn to it are different, as are the natures of their respective training and professional cultures.

A person with a health-related bachelor's degree does have a proven track record in the hosptial environment in at least the respect that they can handle some of the rigors of patient care. The very nature of health-related programs is to care for patients; this goes hand in hand with the goals of being a caring and competent physician.

yes, absolutely. meaningful experience in the health care field and concern for patient care are necessary for all applicants to health professions programs - and in my opinion, it is the qualification most sorely lacking in the average medical student, mostly because of insufficient experience with direct patient care prior to medical school. I believe nurses are by and large the best qualified of all applicants to medical school, in this particular respect.

Those who have completed their bachelor's degree in nursing have fulfilled the general education requirements deemed necessary for their university. Many BSN students go beyond the minimum 120-130 credit hours because of variances of requirements between schools when transferring between ADN and BSN programs. Personally, I had over 200 credit hours in everything from astronomy to women's literature before I was awarded my bachelor's degree.

yes, BSN graduates have completed the gen ed requirements for their university - however, the majority of nursing programs I'm familiar with - correct me if I'm wrong - are programs sponsored by their own separate colleges within the university. Some adcoms know this, and they understand that the gen ed requirements are thus different from the ones present in a Biology degree program from the A&S college, or the engines one from the engines college. Again, different cultures, different objectives, different programs. Again, I never impugned you or your credentials personally - I only meant to suggest rationales behind why adcoms might view an allied health degree differently. With that many credits, I don't doubt that you are better qualified than with a nursing degree alone. How many more courses did you take once you decided to go to med school? Was there any material that you wanted a different look at, once your emphasis changed?

Nursing does encompass the spirit of inquiry. It champions evidence-based research and promotes curiosity among its students. I had to take several nursing research courses which laid the foundation for statistical interpretation in studies that ultimately allowed me to complete a senior project on fertility awareness methods by creating a web site and conducting pretests and posttests on FAM methods learned by perusing the site. Other students focused on topics such as hand washing compliance in the OR at U of M, polypharmacy in elders, and hospice care. Although, these attempts are admittedly very simplified, they still represent the pursuit for knowledge at least on par with fields such as the social sciences.

yes, nursing research does encompass intellectual inquiry, and I grant you that I should have chosen my words more carefully. I maintain however that the character of that inquiry is different from that found in an Arts & Science based program. It tends to be narrower in focus (confined as it is to the given profession and its concerns) and with a greater emphasis on practicum as opposed to theory. Medicine is actually late to the party on evidence-based practice, and has a lot to learn from nursing in this regard. I'm frankly sick of the antiquated attitudes in academic medicine that continue to suggest that there is something inferior about clinical outcomes research.

What I was trying to say last night was that allied health programs do not have the same spirit of inquiry, and I apologize for the offense.

That all said, there is a strong bias against other health professionals; whether this bias stems from historical tensions is up for debate. The prejudice remains, and that is just the way things are. It's far better to major in something that is completely separated from the health care environment if you want the respect of physicians. Lesson learned. Nurses are viewed as stupid, ignorant, and unprofessional by outsiders.

I'm sorry that you have that attitude towards your qualifications. I come from an allied health background myself, and I think I know where you're coming from - but doesn't that in a way prove my earlier point about college freshmen choosing health professions as a pre-med major? It really is more work than it's worth, if you have medicine as a goal to start with. You are going to run into jerks, and you are going to feel like you have something to prove. Interviewers will assume that you think you know everything already, and that medical educators will have to do extra work to make you "unlearn" all that "nursing stuff."

I believe adcoms value allied health folks a great deal in med school classes because, better than any of our classmates, we really know why we are there. Why else would allo matriculants from health science programs have the lowest average MCAT of any group of majors? Because they value the other qualities we bring to the table.

 

[gravitywave]

So what you're saying is that if you start your career in something, you are supposed to stay in that career forever because when you started it, you gave the implicit understanding that you were interested in it? People change careers everyday.

err... no. I was saying that a nursing program trains you to be a nurse, and does so in a way that precludes a lot of other things a person might do in college, relative to a lot of other degree programs out there. similar to the way in which medical students don't have as much time for things non-medicine in their program. it's the nature of a professional training program as opposed to a liberal arts one. it's also a reason why allied health programs are a bad call for pre-meds: the time demands are greater, making it more difficult to do all those things pre-med that aren't directly related to completing a degree program.

You would know that how? Let me guess, someone who once majored in it told you or you looked at a course catalog and came to that determination yourself. Oh wait, you probably read it on SDN.

to be clear, we're talking about curricula. first off, i know that the people i knew in nursing programs at the same time that i was pre-med were much, much busier than i was - and i was working full time, too. i can tell you that the BSN program here has about 65 nursing credits. of the other 60, many are required for the degree, such that the actual degree of latitude the student has in choosing the course of study is very limited. there are 24 credits that are truly electives - and all but nine of those are limited by gen ed reqs. is that an anomaly? compare that to the BS in chem here, a good comparision because, although it is an A&S degree, it's also ACS accredited, which can be important if you're considering a career as a chemist. 66 credits in chem, another 30 in gen ed (more latitude here than for the 15 in the BSN), and 24 for whatever you like. the BSN is offered by the College of Nursing and Health Sciences, the chem is offered by the CAS.

to put it another way, which student has more flexibility to complete a minor?

if i'm really off base here with my facts, then correct me. my point was that adcoms likely consider professional training programs differently than they do A&S degrees, and to suggest a possible rationale for why, namely:

The nursing curriculum does not hew as closely to what we hear from med schools all the time: that they "encourage students to have a broad and balanced educational background during their undergraduate years. In addition to courses in the sciences, recommended areas of study include: literature, mathematics, behavioral sciences, history, philosophy, & arts." (quote from my school's admissions website)

Do you have some sort of evidence that backs up these claims that adcoms look at specific majors differently or are you just repeating SDN propaganda?

no, not personally - although there is some evidence for that from some things that a well-regarded forum member said earlier in this thread, a person who actually is an adcom member. do you have a rationale for your grating tone, or for your unwillingness to make a counterargument as opposed to just hacking away at me?

Just curious if you know what the first two letters in BSN stand for? I'm guessing it stands for Bachelors of Science . Hopefully you also understand what evidence based research is.

yikes. it's not the same bachelors of science as the one conferred by the college of arts and sciences, though. again, no one is necessarily better - i'm trying to point out the differences, and to suggest some other reasons why adcoms might view an allied health science degree differently from a more traditional preparation, other than just some old bad blood (as StudyShy appeared to be saying earlier when she equated nursing degrees to engineering ones.)

Being a physician requires a fundamentally different mental approach than being a biologist, or chemist, or biochemist, or any other major.

i've outlined these differences already, to you and in my response to StudyShy.

according to? you? how many nurses have you had real working experience with?

for the record, lots.

according to? you?

yeah, me. the work is different, personal characteristics are different, training is different, blah blah. i've covered this already, in detail.

again, more generalizations.....

no, no generalizations. i really was asking StudyShy that question. it was a major factor for me, when i made my choice to move into medicine. i wanted to know if our experiences were similar.

again, according to who? you?

me and the consensus on the board, for what are some pretty good common sense reasons. where do you stand, other than against some of what you think i've said?

Terrible post, man.

according to you. OK.

 

[StudyShy]

yes, BSN graduates have completed the gen ed requirements for their university - however, the majority of nursing programs I'm familiar with - correct me if I'm wrong - are programs sponsored by their own separate colleges within the university. Some adcoms know this, and they understand that the gen ed requirements are thus different from the ones present in a Biology degree program from the A&S college, or the engines one from the engines college. Again, different cultures, different objectives, different programs. Again, I never impugned you or your credentials personally - I only meant to suggest rationales behind why adcoms might view an allied health degree differently. With that many credits, I don't doubt that you are better qualified than with a nursing degree alone. How many more courses did you take once you decided to go to med school? Was there any material that you wanted a different look at, once your emphasis changed?

Since I've completed my BSN, I have started a master's degree in European history after because I wanted to learn more about historical research. I started a nurse midwifery program which I am not continuing. I didn't like the animosity that midwives have toward physicians. Since, deciding that I wanted to go to med school to become an OB/GYN, I have been working on completing the rest of the pre-med requirements -something that everyone has to complete the same in order to be considered for med school. I should have about 250 credit hours after completing my history degree and pre-med requirements. This is definitely the wrong way to go about things, but I didn't know that I would would wind up having a horrible pregnancy and feel the need to help women in similar situations. If I didn't have my traumatic pregnancy, I would not have wanted to be a physician. This is one example of why people do choose medicine and change careers. I agree, however, that nursing is not worth it if one is aspiring to go into medicine from the get go. Nursing is simply not conducive to medicine in its current state given the stigma and difficulty to complete clinical hours with traditional pre-med requirements because of schedule conflicts.

Since my degree is viewed as less scholarly, I've really been thinking about completing a second bachelor's degree in biology or doing UT's SMP so that I can kind of be viewed perhaps more on equal ground. I would feel more comfortable retracing my steps in the more traditional approach to pre-med.

Not all schools are the same. For instance, the university that my husband went to, he didn't have to have two years of a FL for the engineering program. Alternatively, for my nursing program at a different university than my husband's, general education requirements and religion requirements were the same for all majors. That is why adcoms should not make broad generalizations based soley on degree awarded and why degree completion requirements should be assessed according to the university awarding the degree.

yes, nursing research does encompass intellectual inquiry, and I grant you that I should have chosen my words more carefully. I maintain however that the character of that inquiry is different from that found in an Arts & Science based program. It tends to be narrower in focus (confined as it is to the given profession and its concerns) and with a greater emphasis on practicum as opposed to theory. Medicine is actually late to the party on evidence-based practice, and has a lot to learn from nursing in this regard. I'm frankly sick of the antiquated attitudes in academic medicine that continue to suggest that there is something inferior about clinical outcomes research.

Yes, a lot of nursing research focuses on nursing practice. However, in order to have a nursing practice there has to be nursing theory since theory guides practice. Nursing demarcates theory usually into two sections which are grand nursing theories and middle range theories. These can be viewed as analogous to the biomedical model that medicine espouses. Nursing theory is actually a huge component to any nursing program, and nursing students learn different theories of wellness, adaption, behavioural systems models, self care models and so on. Nursing students should graduate being well versed in the theories of Neuman, Roy, Orem, Pender, Henderson, and others. I can't believe that I'm defending nursing theory. I hate nursing theory and care plans!

I'm sorry that you have that attitude towards your qualifications. I come from an allied health background myself, and I think I know where you're coming from - but doesn't that in a way prove my earlier point about college freshmen choosing health professions as a pre-med major? It really is more work than it's worth, if you have medicine as a goal to start with. You are going to run into jerks, and you are going to feel like you have something to prove. Interviewers will assume that you think you know everything already, and that medical educators will have to do extra work to make you "unlearn" all that "nursing stuff."

I believe adcoms value allied health folks a great deal in med school classes because, better than any of our classmates, we really know why we are there. Why else would allo matriculants from health science programs have the lowest average MCAT of any group of majors? Because they value the other qualities we bring to the table.

That's scary. The lowest of all group majors? I hope that I do at least average compared with successful applicants. What is your backround just out of curiosity? Did you feel that having an allied health degree had an untoward effect when applying and interviewing for medical school?

I wish that allied health fields were not viewed as so inferior. It's just the nature of the game.

To the OP: Don't do RT or nursing.

 

[Hoody]

err... no. I was saying that a nursing program trains you to be a nurse, and does so in a way that precludes a lot of other things a person might do in college, relative to a lot of other degree programs out there. similar to the way in which medical students don't have as much time for things non-medicine in their program. it's the nature of a professional training program as opposed to a liberal arts one. it's also a reason why allied health programs are a bad call for pre-meds: the time demands are greater, making it more difficult to do all those things pre-med that aren't directly related to completing a degree program.



to be clear, we're talking about curricula. first off, i know that the people i knew in nursing programs at the same time that i was pre-med were much, much busier than i was - and i was working full time, too. i can tell you that the BSN program here has about 65 nursing credits. of the other 60, many are required for the degree, such that the actual degree of latitude the student has in choosing the course of study is very limited. there are 24 credits that are truly electives - and all but nine of those are limited by gen ed reqs. is that an anomaly? compare that to the BS in chem here, a good comparision because, although it is an A&S degree, it's also ACS accredited, which can be important if you're considering a career as a chemist. 66 credits in chem, another 30 in gen ed (more latitude here than for the 15 in the BSN), and 24 for whatever you like. the BSN is offered by the College of Nursing and Health Sciences, the chem is offered by the CAS.

to put it another way, which student has more flexibility to complete a minor?

if i'm really off base here with my facts, then correct me. my point was that adcoms likely consider professional training programs differently than they do A&S degrees, and to suggest a possible rationale for why, namely:

The nursing curriculum does not hew as closely to what we hear from med schools all the time: that they "encourage students to have a broad and balanced educational background during their undergraduate years. In addition to courses in the sciences, recommended areas of study include: literature, mathematics, behavioral sciences, history, philosophy, & arts." (quote from my school's admissions website)



no, not personally - although there is some evidence for that from some things that a well-regarded forum member said earlier in this thread, a person who actually is an adcom member. do you have a rationale for your grating tone, or for your unwillingness to make a counterargument as opposed to just hacking away at me?



yikes. it's not the same bachelors of science as the one conferred by the college of arts and sciences, though. again, no one is necessarily better - i'm trying to point out the differences, and to suggest some other reasons why adcoms might view an allied health science degree differently from a more traditional preparation, other than just some old bad blood (as StudyShy appeared to be saying earlier when she equated nursing degrees to engineering ones.)



i've outlined these differences already, to you and in my response to StudyShy.



for the record, lots.



yeah, me. the work is different, personal characteristics are different, training is different, blah blah. i've covered this already, in detail.



no, no generalizations. i really was asking StudyShy that question. it was a major factor for me, when i made my choice to move into medicine. i wanted to know if our experiences were similar.



me and the consensus on the board, for what are some pretty good common sense reasons. where do you stand, other than against some of what you think i've said?



according to you. OK.

cool story. I'm not going to argue allied health professions and medical school admissions with someone who has no experience whatever so ever being an allied health professional who applied to medical school.


Hopefully the OP is smart and doesn't listen to someone who once knew someone, who once talked to someone, who once read on SDN that....

 

[Hoody]

I wish that allied health fields were not viewed as so inferior. It's just the nature of the game.

Just for the record, nursing is NOT considered an allied health profession.

 

[LizzyM]

Just for the record, nursing is NOT considered an allied health profession.

what is it then? black magic?

 

[Hoody]

what is it then? black magic?

Perhaps you should ask the Association of Schools of Allied Health Professions?


My guess is that it's....nursing? Make sure to tell all your little adcom friends.

 

[StudyShy]

Just for the record, nursing is NOT considered an allied health profession.

Yeah, you're right. It's a very ambigious term that will problably be changing a lot over the coming decades.

I guess this makes sense since universities list a particular division as "nursing and allied health,"

I better make sure that I have a good understanding of a term before I throw it around. I had never heard nursing described as being the same as the allied health field so I think that's where I went wrong. Undoubtly, allied health professionals contribute immensly to providing excellent patient care.

[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]

The commission settled on a frequently used definition of allied health professional, from Section 701 of the Public Health Service Act of 1992. It's a fairly narrow definition, but certainly not a brief one.

.[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]According to that definition, an allied health professional is "a health professional (other than a registered nurse or physician assistant) who has received a certificate, an associate degree, a bachelor's degree, a master's degree, a doctoral degree, or postbaccalaureate training in a science related to health care; who shares in the responsibility for the delivery of healthcare services or related services, including services relating to the identification, evaluation, and prevention of disease and disorders, dietary and nutrition services, health promotion services, rehabilitation services, or health systems management services..

The term Allied Health (or Health-Related Professions, at some institutions) is used to identify a cluster of health professions, encompassing as many as 200 health careers (see list below). There are 5 million allied health care providers in the U.S., who work in more than 80 different professions and represent approximately 60% of all health care providers -- but this is just a drop in the bucket in terms of how many allied health care workers are needed to meet current and future healthcare needs in America.

When you work in allied health, you are involved (directly or indirectly) with patient health, and you are regarded as an expert in your field. Some allied health professionals practice independently; others work as part of a health care team, providing continual evaluation and assessment of patient needs. They also play a major role in informing the attending clinician of the patient's progress and response to treatment.

The allied health professions fall into two broad categories: technicians (assistants) and therapists/technologists. Technicians are trained to perform procedures, and their education lasts less than two years. They are required to work under the supervision of technologists or therapists. This part of the allied health field includes physical therapy assistants, medical laboratory technicians, radiological technicians, occupational therapy assistants, recreation therapy assistants, and respiratory therapy technicians.

This one is from Wikipedia (yeah I know not the best resource, but it's late):

Definitions of Allied Health professions vary in many different ways, but always include that they are health professions distinct from medicine, dentistry, physiotherapy, and nursing. Some definitions only include health professions that require registration by law to practice, but usually all allied health professions that require a degree or higher qualification are included.


Depending on the country and local health care system, a limited subset of the following professions (professional areas) may be represented, and may be regulated:

• Athletic trainer
• Anesthesia technician
• Audiology
• Bioengineering
• Biomedical science
• Cardiac technician
• Cardiology technologist
• Clinical psychology
• Dietitian
• Electrocardiogram technician
• Emergency & Intensive Care Technology 4 year degree program, Pakistan
• Diagnostic medical sonography
• Paramedic
• Exercise physiology
• Health administration
• Health information technician
• Kinesiotherapy
• Massage therapist
• Medical assistant
• Medical coder
• Medical interpreter
• Medical Dosimetry (Dosimetrist)
• Medical physics
• Medical Laboratory Scientist
• Medical radiation scientist (Australian title for medical/cardiac sonographers, radiographers (x-ray, MR, CT, Nuclear Medicine), and radiation therapists)[Medical Imaging Technology 4-Year Progeam in Pakistan]
• Music therapy
• Nuclear medicine technologist
• Nutrition and Dietetics
• Occupational therapy
• Operating Department Practitioners
• Optometry
• Orthotics and prosthetics
• Orthoptist
• Pedorthist
• Perfusionist
• Personal trainer
• Pharmacist
• Physical Therapist
• Phlebotomist
• Public health
• Radiation therapist
• Radiography
• Rehabilitation counseling
• Respiratory therapist
• Speech and language pathologist
• Strength and conditioning specialist
• Surgical technologist
• Recreational therapist
• Ultrasound

 

[Heimskringla]

I'm an RT student waiting to start coursework. In general, a BS-RT would not adequately prepare a student for medical school admissions. I used to work as an academic advisor for pre-med and allied health students, and this is a question I dealt with somewhat often.

Some BS-RT programs have you take a few of the appropriate science courses with labs, but I am not familiar with any that require the same sciences as the typical pre-med degree.

You will need to look at the admissions requirements of the medical school and compare it with the coursework required for the degree. Generally speaking, you will need to take most of the life sciences and physics/gen chem for majors with labs. I'm not familiar with a BS-RT program requiring the pre-med science series. Sometimes, they only require two semesters of A&P and a semester of gen chem to begin.

 

[LizzyM]

So the term "alllied health profession" was invented by bureaucrats to define a group of professions that would be covered under federal legislation?

I do believe that to the lay person (and I would include myself if that category) "allied health professions" is everyone except doctors.... Most people are not familiar with a federal reg written only 19 years ago. (I was usuing the term allied health profession back in the 70s).

 

[Hoody]

So the term "alllied health profession" was invented by bureaucrats to define a group of professions that would be covered under federal legislation?

I do believe that to the lay person (and I would include myself if that category) "allied health professions" is everyone except doctors.... Most people are not familiar with a federal reg written only 19 years ago. (I was usuing the term allied health profession back in the 70s).

Are you saying that yore refusing to accept that nursing is not allied health because for the last 30 years you believed it to be?

Get with the times, yo. Hopefully other self proclaimed adcom members aren't as stubborn as you.

 

[LizzyM]

Are you saying that yore refusing to accept that nursing is not allied health because for the last 30 years you believed it to be?

Get with the times, yo. Hopefully other self proclaimed adcom members aren't as stubborn as you.

I am saying that the statement that nursing is not an allied health profession is BS. You are hanging your hat on federal regulations that sought to define professionals other than those that were already defined within the regs. In the world, allied health professions are everything except doctors.

Who the hell cares, anyway. Adcoms look at applications from people who have either worked in another profession before applying to med school or who majored in a vocational major (health care or not) and who may take a dim view of these applicants as not making a good case for changing horses.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

cool story. I'm not going to argue allied health professions and medical school admissions with someone who has no experience whatever so ever being an allied health professional who applied to medical school.

but aren't you a nurse?

 

[Heimskringla]

Are you saying that yore refusing to accept that nursing is not allied health because for the last 30 years you believed it to be?

Get with the times, yo. Hopefully other self proclaimed adcom members aren't as stubborn as you.

There's no reason, colloquially, to distinguish nursing from other allied health programs. Nurses are not physicians and generally only provide care as a part of the physician-led team. That's pretty true for any allied health profession.

When you're in an enrollment management meeting, it's much easier to say "Okay, let's talk about allied health enrollments" rather than to say "Okay, let's talk about nursing and allied health enrollments."

We all know we're going to talk about the BS-RT program, the CLS program, and the nursing program under that agenda heading.

It's really a pointless debate.

 

[StudyShy]

The good thing is, I don't see any of this cattiness in the real world; collaboration and respect are mutual between the groups. If the physicians who I work with thought so lowly of me, they probably wouldn't joke around or sit at the same table to eat dinner. They have plenty of other places to go such as the doctor's lounge if they were that repulsed by my presence and lack of a rigorous education.

It's just a definition, and who cares is right. I don't really care. It's not going to change people's perceptions any time soon. RT, nursing, PT, dentists, PAs, or anything else that may be considered under the umbrella term "allied" will never be seen as being worthwhile to those in power. Remember, medicine is tops and next to God. Don't be offended, though, you're aspiring to Godliness by trying to become a physician. Once you're in, you'll be one of them and all is good.

1) This entire thread just proves that it is not worth the time, money, or effort to go into anything health-related before medical school. Choose among the myriad of non-health degrees in the sciences or humanities because this is the pathway for successful admission to med school with the least resistance.

2) As to those who have down the road chosen to pursue medicine after receiving a health degree, it appears that these people need even more an explanation to an adcom than those the people who have worked in say IT or teaching for the last 5 years. A clear and cogent story must be given to justify the change. If you don't have a convincing story, then EPIC FAIL for you.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

Perhaps you should ask the Association of Schools of Allied Health Professions?


My guess is that it's....nursing? Make sure to tell all your little adcom friends.

Are you saying that yore refusing to accept that nursing is not allied health because for the last 30 years you believed it to be?

Get with the times, yo. Hopefully other self proclaimed adcom members aren't as stubborn as you.