Retirement/savings goal

[deleted1100659]

Asking here since were all in the same field essentially with similiar income for the most part.

How much are you guys saving a year? Is there a target number you're trying to hit by retirement for network/amount tucked away? Any certain age you guys are planning on reducing hours/retiring?

Now that im an attending psychiatrist, the pressure to save is a little more, since we start later than everyone else. Despite having a lot of expenses this year that were unavoidable, im saving around 90k-100k a year, not counting IRA contributions, and this is with paying around 36k-40k this year towards student loans so im happy with that. The market is so volatile right now, im just maxing out I bonds each year and have my cash in a 1.2% high yield savings account, though I think i think ill buy in more to S&P index funds once it dips further. Currently have about 12k in them so far, though regretting buying them a little early since the market dipped shortly after. oh well.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[littlefred]

Are you familiar with white coat investor?

I am personally shooting to have 2.5-3 million for retirement and live off of the earnings from that (4% yearly return of that is about 100k).

My budget and retirement expectations might be very different to yours though.

 

[jbomba]

I'm retiring with 5 million in the bank which would give $200,000 a year in withdrawals. Will probably sell my house at that point in effort to downgrade so that would hopefully add another 1.5m or so in built equity.

It seems saving 8k a month would allow for this over 20 years.

 

[Monocles]

Now that im an attending psychiatrist, the pressure to save is a little more, since we start later than everyone else. Despite having a lot of expenses this year that were unavoidable, im saving around 90k-100k a year, not counting IRA contributions, and this is with paying around 36k-40k this year towards student loans so im happy with that.

That is fantastic. Good for you OP.

I just finished my first attending year and ended up saving about 105k out of my 150k-ish take home (about 70% post-tax).

Aiming for a $2M portfolio with a mid to late 30s retirement age.

 

[Bartelby]

Others are referring to it above, I think, but 4 percent is the often accepted "safe withdrawal rate" in the early retirement community. So each million gives you $40k to live on with very little chance your money would ever run out. I thus consider financial independence to be in the $2-3 million range if you are willing to live very frugally (low cost of living area with modest spending habits, or higher COL but with the home paid for which should really then count toward your net worth).

I am around 5 years out of training and have a high-earning spouse. Total net worth so far including home equity and retirement accounts is a little over one million. I suspect in around five years if we maintain our savings rate (and the current probably-recession bounces back) we will reach that $2-3 million range. I don't plan to stop working then but, depending on how I feel at the time, might go part-time. For me financial independence is about choice and options rather than outright retirement.

 

[deleted1100659]

That is very interesting, my number was 3 million for retirement as well factoring in the same 40k rule. Seems reasonable to hit at the current pace, depending on economy.

Absolutely agree with the choice aspect; I want to be able to work part time and be choosey towards future jobs.

Monocles, 2 million by mid-late 30s???!! Did you become rich off bitcoin or something? lol

 

[FlowRate]

I'm maxing tax-advantaged accounts which means basically $67,000 per year. My organization has various other retirement perks that kick in at various times over the first 3 years of working here. I believe that I'm now getting the $28,000 defined benefit (guaranteed 4% interest rate) per year thing as well. In the next year or so we'll be adding a match that should be worth around $10,000 per year (guesstimate) but that will mean I will need to shift some of my mega-backdoor funds to a brokerage account or something else. I've also been saving for a down-payment on a home at a rate of about $40,000 per year. (Although with inflation I guess that would be -8% per year :X)

Regarding above, 4% is not really a "safe" withdrawal rate for early retirement. It's the number that was calculated for traditional retirees where they don't completely run out of money before they die most of the time when backtesting reasonable portfolios.

3%, however, has historically pretty much never, ever failed, even over long time horizons. So that's the number I start with when thinking about living completely off of an early retirement portfolio.

So similarly $3-4M in today's dollars is what I shoot for.

 

[TexasPhysician]

I generally save 30-50% of gross income.

Save is a relative term in my home. I haven’t put much money in stocks or mutual funds in the last 1-2 years. I purchase real estate or develop majority interest in new businesses.

That makes it hard to easily calculate my savings rate as money isn’t going into 1 account. If you live relatively reasonably, monitoring that number isn’t very important at my age.

 

[Monocles]

Monocles, 2 million by mid-late 30s???!! Did you become rich off bitcoin or something? lol

Ha I wish! Just extreme frugality and desperation to leave medicine lol.

I learned about the FIRE movement as a pgy-2 and have been treating it like a salvation religion. Between 5 years of training I saved up an average of 22k a year (110k total) while living in Boston... On my fellowship graduation date last year my taxable account was sitting at ~155k (45k worth of market growth due to the bull market. Sadly with the recent downturn and some life stuff that came up (bought a house, old car died so I had to purchase a replacement) I am a bit behind projections. I've been consistent in DCA despite the market change (going all in on VTSAX with the remainder of my money after bills each month).

Right now I am at about only 240k in retirement savings (I've hit the 250k mark three times this year already...), 100k in home equity, wife has about another 60k in her retirement so we've been floating at 400k NW for most of 2022.

 

[Sushirolls]

I changed my views and goals. I just want a ranch.

First need to effectively get the infrastructure, equipment, water, fencing, etc dialed in while still working as Psychiatrist. All high cost expenditures.

Get the farm/ranch proceeds to net 50k minimum per year, or ideally 100k if able - then retire from medicine.

Keep working the ranch until I die of a CV event, preferably while outside in the field or even on the tractor.

Shortest work commute every day. Enjoy the slowest and best metric of time - the seasons.

 

[Merovinge]

I'm retiring with 5 million in the bank which would give $200,000 a year in withdrawals. Will probably sell my house at that point in effort to downgrade so that would hopefully add another 1.5m or so in built equity.

It seems saving 8k a month would allow for this over 20 years.

5 million is about what we are shooting for as well. Will surpass it in all likelihood, but that gives extra money to live somewhere nice after we get into our 50's as empty nesters and can figure out stage 2 of life (about a 20 year attending timeline for us as well). We live frugally by nature and still splurge all the time and bank between 10-15k/month in savings. Tough to compare dual income to single income households though, and boy is it tough raising a family with two attending jobs, so certainly not all pie-in-the-sky.

 

[deleted1100659]

Heres to hoping PLSF does not get completely overhauled in the next 5 years and I get my loans forgiven. Anyone else aiming for this? I got 5 years left of it, and next job qualifies for it. Worst case scneario is if its not around by then I refinance and go private but hoping I dont have to do that. If it wasnt for student loan payments I would have significantly more money towards savings.

 

[Bartelby]

5 million is about what we are shooting for as well. Will surpass it in all likelihood, but that gives extra money to live somewhere nice after we get into our 50's as empty nesters and can figure out stage 2 of life (about a 20 year attending timeline for us as well). We live frugally by nature and still splurge all the time and bank between 10-15k/month in savings. Tough to compare dual income to single income households though, and boy is it tough raising a family with two attending jobs, so certainly not all pie-in-the-sky.

I totally agree about the two-income situation. It is a tremendous blessing on the one hand. If you can live on a single income, you could legitimately save an entire spouse's income each year (which gets you to FIRE status quite quickly). On the other hand, having young kids through the pandemic with both parents having demanding full-time jobs is burnout fuel. Even in normal times, it means you cannot have the flexibility that your colleagues without kids (or with a stay at home partner) can have to stay late, add hours, etc. etc.

 

[deleted1100659]

Do you guys do daycare since both of you are working parents?

 

[wolfvgang22]

I'm shooting for at least 3MM. Sitting at around 280K now in my TSP, and will still have federal retirement if I stick with the VA, which is the tentative plan. I am investing more now since stocks are on sale. I will likely work full time another 15 years and then go to 3 days a week for few years. It is hard with multiple kids and a single earner household. I'll be debt free in 3 years except my reasonably low mortgage which will be paid off in 14 years. Boy, am I glad I locked in that 2% interest rate last year! Once my non-mortgage debt is gone in 2025 I can invest a lot more. I might look at real estate then when my kids are out of the nest.

 

[PsyDr]

First need to effectively get the infrastructure, equipment, water, fencing, etc dialed in while still working as Psychiatrist. All high cost expenditures.

You don't pay for that stuff. You get USDA land improvement grants, to pay for it.

You're welcome.

 

[Bartelby]

Do you guys do daycare since both of you are working parents?

We do, although through the pandemic childcare coverage got very spotty. We made it via a combination of using leave time for childcare (basically not taking vacation for a couple years), some time with a temporary nanny, using back up care, and doing some work from home time with one child home. For our first child she went into daycare at less than one year old. She struggled with daycare and spending more time with us during the pandemic seems to have been very helpful, so doing it over again I would probably try for shorter daycare days at younger ages (which we are pulling off now at the cost of limiting work hours, which is pretty stressful but probably worth it).

 

[Merovinge]

Do you guys do daycare since both of you are working parents?

We use daycare as we have only one child and the socialization is important to us. Daycare sucks for our life compared to an au pare or good nanny as kiddo gets sent home for rashs/diarrhea/minor fever from teething etc, plus the time out for COVID exposure (despite never having had COVID). I have family that lives a few hours away and was a lifesaver at times, but it is stressful as hell to calls from daycare in the middle of the day when we are both working. My job has some flexibility as I do work by the week in PHP/IOP and can move things if needed.

 

[WisNeuro]

We use daycare as we have only one child and the socialization is important to us. Daycare sucks for our life compared to an au pare or good nanny as kiddo gets sent home for rashs/diarrhea/minor fever from teething etc, plus the time out for COVID exposure (despite never having had COVID). I have family that lives a few hours away and was a lifesaver at times, but it is stressful as hell to calls from daycare in the middle of the day when we are both working. My job has some flexibility as I do work by the week in PHP/IOP and can move things if needed.

Can confirm. Easier now as they have relaxed the exposure rules, but the 10 days out thing was a killer. I also have some flexibility, so I was at least still able to snag some legal record review work from home during the several covid holidays we had.

 

[deleted1100659]

AU pare has become popular it seems like, good friend of mine is using one. Anyone tried this? I get nervous at a random person in my house and then worry theyll use it as a free trip, lol. Not that I have kids yet, but planning for kids in the future.

 

[WisNeuro]

AU pare has become popular it seems like, good friend of mine is using one. Anyone tried this? I get nervous at a random person in my house and then worry theyll use it as a free trip, lol. Not that I have kids yet, but planning for kids in the future.

One professional friend of ours has had two disastrous experiences, another set of our friends has had a good one. Personally, I don't like randos living in my home. I'd rather kids be in a daycare, at least getting socialization in their peer group. Spouse and I also each have 1 day off during the work week where we have the kids home.

 

[Sushirolls]

Sitters are unreliable. We gave up on that.
Au Pairs are too expensive.
Put 'em in daycare. Great for getting germ exposure and socialization, both very much needed.
Red states or Red flavored daycares are/were key to Covid era.

 

[Sushirolls]

You don't pay for that stuff. You get USDA land improvement grants, to pay for it.

You're welcome.

This is akin to telling a highschool kid, just get grants to pay for your college. Magical thinking.

Yes grants, exist, but they aren't plentiful, and the fine text of their rules are unlikely to be eligible or apply. Doesn't mean I won't look.

 

[WisNeuro]

Sitters are unreliable. We gave up on that.
Au Pairs are too expensive.
Put 'em in daycare. Great for getting germ exposure and socialization, both very much needed.
Red states or Red flavored daycares are/were key to Covid era.

Having lived in red states most of my life, hard pass.

 

[Monocles]

Sitters are unreliable. We gave up on that.
Au Pairs are too expensive.
Put 'em in daycare. Great for getting germ exposure and socialization, both very much needed.
Red states or Red flavored daycares are/were key to Covid era.

The "blue" flavoured alternative would be having a telepsych WFH job with flexible hours so you can also double as a stay-at-home parent to raise crunchy-granola home-grown children

(my goal if I am not retired by the time we have kids!)

 

[PsyDr]

This is akin to telling a highschool kid, just get grants to pay for your college. Magical thinking.

Yes grants, exist, but they aren't plentiful, and the fine text of their rules are unlikely to be eligible or apply. Doesn't mean I won't look.

The cool thing about helping based upon your experience, is being told that it is magical thinking.

 

[whopper]

Agreeing with everything above, but I love working in this field so much I don't see myself retiring unless I can't work cause my mind can't do it anymore, or something in the field significantly changes to a degree where I don't like it.

I figure I'd be doing it part-time in my later years. Still making an income much less so and also living off of retirement.

 

[comp1]

The "desperation to leave medicine" comments above are so sad. Hopefully the people above find something within medicine that works for them. The field is so broad.

 

[Merovinge]

I see very few people desperate to leave medicine above. Reaching financial independence gives you the option to practice in the best way possible, not be beholden to the man. I fully intend to keep practicing once I reach FI, but it may very well be on a part-time basis if that's what is best for my family at the time. If not, I will work full-time wherever I am able to practice medicine in a manner that best serves my patients and have zero qualms about walking away from a job trying to extract widgets rather than help people.

 

[finalpsychyear]

The question that really matters is what will that 2-3 million look like in 10-15 years as people approach their numbers in 2032-2037 for example. 2-3 million in todays dollars 10-15 years from now is easily maybe 50% more (3-4m) with inflation. I hope i am wrong or my math is totally off.

Also, subjectively speaking 6 years ago 2-3 million seemed like a lot to me and now its maybe barely enough for FIRE. Does anyone else feel this way?

P..S. Also accumulating 3m is fricking hard. If i had 0 dollars now and was a great saver even at 150k yearly in savings thats 13 yrs at 7 percent returns. Even if i had 500k and still saving 150k its 10 years to hit 3m. Plus with a possible recession and less than 7 percent return expected who really knows.

 

[FlowRate]

The question that really matters is what will that 2-3 million look like in 10-15 years as people approach their numbers in 2032-2037 for example. 2-3 million in todays dollars 10-15 years from now is easily maybe 50% more (3-4m) with inflation. I hope i am wrong or my math is totally off.

Also, subjectively speaking 6 years ago 2-3 million seemed like a lot to me and now its maybe barely enough for FIRE. Does anyone else feel this way?

Well if you assume historical 2% inflation then 3M today is 3.6M 10 years from now. (3*1.02^10) 4M 15 years from now. I usually discount all of my projected returns to keep everything in current dollars.

Who knows with continued doubling down on modern monetary policy, though.

 

[finalpsychyear]

Well if you assume historical 2% inflation then 3M today is 3.6M 10 years from now. (3*1.02^10) 4M 15 years from now. I usually discount all of my projected returns to keep everything in current dollars.

Who knows with continued doubling down on modern monetary policy, though.

I'd love a 2 percent inflation but sadly i feel it will at best be 4 percent in the years to come. Didn't they print at least 50% of all us dollars since jan 2020. Its shocking to say the least which is why i am concerned.

 

[Sushirolls]

We spent more on Covid relief than we did WW-II.

 

[deleted456421]

The "desperation to leave medicine" comments above are so sad. Hopefully the people above find something within medicine that works for them. The field is so broad.

For myself, hitting the income to retire early will, hopefully, provide some reassurance to try riskier stuff. Right now I'm thinking private practice, but maybe I'll go way out there and become a sailboat surveyor. If I'm lucky enough, I'll just sail around the world doing telemedicine.

I don't hate my job but feel a real lack of control in many respects. Sure, I could go private practice ASAP, but it's hard to turn down job offers for >$400k/year that don't require a ramp up period with lower income.

My goal is $3-4 million, which should be easily achievable by late 40s given my current savings (about $150k yearly in my i401k, two IRAs, my wife's 401k + profit sharing, and her HSA). I'm fortunate to live in a low cost area and have a spouse who makes around $100k. We could save way more if we were truly frugal, but we're living really dang well without sacrificing too much in savings.

 

[WisNeuro]

We spent more on Covid relief than we did WW-II.

Ted Williams was the last MLB player to bat above .400 in a season.

 

[lockian]

I’d rather not share exact numbers for myself, since I feel like I’m behind since I was focusing more on paying off loans and mortgage and had an irrational fear of investing until recently. One thing I agree with Mr Money Mustache on is that I see dept as an emergency. But at least I’ve got a ton of home equity and little in loans…

I’d happily work as long as I can, but one reason why I’d like to get out is the constant concerns about liability. That brings me down on a daily basis, every time something goes wrong, which it always does.

In other news, some attendings I’ve talked to describe themselves as “paycheck to paycheck.” And I’m like…. How?! I guess everyone in this thread is in really good shape.

 

[FlowRate]

I’d rather not share exact numbers for myself, since I feel like I’m behind since I was focusing more on paying off loans and mortgage and had an irrational fear of investing until recently. One thing I agree with Mr Money Mustache on is that I see dept as an emergency. But at least I’ve got a ton of home equity and little in loans…

I’d happily work as long as I can, but one reason why I’d like to get out is the constant concerns about liability. That brings me down on a daily basis, every time something goes wrong, which it always does.

In other news, some attendings I’ve talked to describe themselves as “paycheck to paycheck.” And I’m like…. How?! I guess everyone in this thread is in really good shape.

Bad debt is an emergency. Credit card debt, low credit score auto loan debt, anything with interest rates >8%.

Good debt is how you get rich. Leverage. Especially in a low interest rate environment. Why pay off your 2% auto loan immediately when you can be investing it in the market? Why pay off your lucky lowest-ever 3% mortgage immediately? Why put extra money toward student loans that are being "paid off" by inflation while at "temporary" 0% interest rate? That money can be put to better, higher returns, uses.

I have a colleague who is paycheck to paycheck. How do you get there? Divorce someone who earns much less than you do. Get a new significant other with expensive tastes. Buy a new luxury car every 4 years.

 

[TexasPhysician]

I’d rather not share exact numbers for myself, since I feel like I’m behind since I was focusing more on paying off loans and mortgage and had an irrational fear of investing until recently. One thing I agree with Mr Money Mustache on is that I see dept as an emergency. But at least I’ve got a ton of home equity and little in loans…

I’d happily work as long as I can, but one reason why I’d like to get out is the constant concerns about liability. That brings me down on a daily basis, every time something goes wrong, which it always does.

In other news, some attendings I’ve talked to describe themselves as “paycheck to paycheck.” And I’m like…. How?! I guess everyone in this thread is in really good shape.

Don’t worry. It’s not a race. Develop a savings philosophy that works for you. Everyone tolerates different risks levels. A friend told me 5 years ago that I should be throwing every $1 at rental homes. Leverage everything he said. I couldn’t do it mentally. The prospect of high vacancy draining my pockets was too much. In retrospect, I should have done it. I’d be in the multi-millions right now.

On the flip side, I have a friend that only pays off debt and saves in CD’s, bonds, and savings accounts. The $ is worth less every year, but he still saves quite a bit.

Most of us find a middle ground. Leverage as much as let’s you sleep at night. Save every month.

 

[Bartelby]

Bad debt is an emergency. Credit card debt, low credit score auto loan debt, anything with interest rates >8%.

Good debt is how you get rich. Leverage. Especially in a low interest rate environment. Why pay off your 2% auto loan immediately when you can be investing it in the market? Why pay off your lucky lowest-ever 3% mortgage immediately? Why put extra money toward student loans that are being "paid off" by inflation while at "temporary" 0% interest rate? That money can be put to better, higher returns, uses.

I have a colleague who is paycheck to paycheck. How do you get there? Divorce someone who earns much less than you do. Get a new significant other with expensive tastes. Buy a new luxury car every 4 years.

Great points. These days if you have a big mortgage (at ~3%, locked in before recent rate increases) and if inflation remains ~8%, inflation is basically paying off a meaningful chunk of your remaining balance year after year in terms of actual purchasing power.

 

[Jules A]

I’d rather not share exact numbers for myself, since I feel like I’m behind since I was focusing more on paying off loans and mortgage and had an irrational fear of investing until recently. One thing I agree with Mr Money Mustache on is that I see dept as an emergency. But at least I’ve got a ton of home equity and little in loans…

I’d happily work as long as I can, but one reason why I’d like to get out is the constant concerns about liability. That brings me down on a daily basis, every time something goes wrong, which it always does.

In other news, some attendings I’ve talked to describe themselves as “paycheck to paycheck.” And I’m like…. How?! I guess everyone in this thread is in really good shape.

No worries about where you are it’s a work in progress. That you are debt adverse and I suspect also fairly frugal as they tend to go together will serve you well. If you hope to FIRE however you will need to be smart and maximize your savings power. I’d reconsider paying off the mortgage if the fixed rate is <5%. Depending on your state’s laws you may have homestead protection. Paying off mortgage can be a costly psychological security blanket and the money is likely better invested elsewhere for growth. You would probably benefit from checking out White Coat Investor or Physical on FIRE.

 

[WisNeuro]

Great points. These days if you have a big mortgage (at ~3%, locked in before recent rate increases) and if inflation remains ~8%, inflation is basically paying off a meaningful chunk of your remaining balance year after year in terms of actual purchasing power.

We bought last year, timing worked out and locked in at 2.65%. Much better than the 4.75 i had on my first property years ago, and way better than the near 6% now. As far as inflation, just staying the course on my usual yearly contributions, and just making sure I'm maxing out some of my inflation hedges (e.g., I-bonds).

 

[Merovinge]

I’d rather not share exact numbers for myself, since I feel like I’m behind since I was focusing more on paying off loans and mortgage and had an irrational fear of investing until recently. One thing I agree with Mr Money Mustache on is that I see dept as an emergency. But at least I’ve got a ton of home equity and little in loans…

I’d happily work as long as I can, but one reason why I’d like to get out is the constant concerns about liability. That brings me down on a daily basis, every time something goes wrong, which it always does.

In other news, some attendings I’ve talked to describe themselves as “paycheck to paycheck.” And I’m like…. How?! I guess everyone in this thread is in really good shape.

Home equity is net worth, full stop. Your home might lose some value, but outside of some very risky areas that's real money that you will actually see in the future.

I would really try and not worry about liability, your med mal covers virtually anything that can or will happen in psychiatry. There are some basic asset protection strategies (max out 401k, tenant by entirety for home - all state specific) that are reasonable to pursue, but worrying about this is akin to worrying about developing cancer or being struck by lightening (and cancer is wayyyyyy more likely than an over policy med mal judgement). Your risk of malpractice is (unfortunately), part of what keeps MD salaries high and is part of the deal.

 

[starbuck2]

M3. I have a toxic **** ton of CC debt and other bills. Can’t even begin to think about saving. I am considering doing military FAP program when I start residency in a couple years to get the extra boost I’d need to wipe out all my “emergency” debt. (Also interested in this path for the professional experience). Then I could at least start saving a little for retirement. I’d take a decent hit for the 5 attending years I’d owe down the road but at least it would really solve my short term problems. Would also aim for PSLF.

Long term goal would be to have around $4-5 mil in current dollars. I don’t think I’d need a lavish retirement but I love traveling and would like to at least have some extra savings to do quite a bit of traveling when I’m older.

 

[BiscoDisco]

M3. I have a toxic **** ton of CC debt and other bills. Can’t even begin to think about saving. I am considering doing military FAP program when I start residency in a couple years to get the extra boost I’d need to wipe out all my “emergency” debt. (Also interested in this path for the professional experience). Then I could at least start saving a little for retirement. I’d take a decent hit for the 5 attending years I’d owe down the road but at least it would really solve my short term problems. Would also aim for PSLF.

Long term goal would be to have around $4-5 mil in current dollars. I don’t think I’d need a lavish retirement but I love traveling and would like to at least have some extra savings to do quite a bit of traveling when I’m older.

I also like traveling. My plan is to retire late 50s with a similar sum of money, then move to some cheap Asian country for a handful of years while that balance continues to grow. Maybe return to the US more full-time with a bigger retirement balance and just take shorter but more frequent trips at that point.

 

[wolfvgang22]

I also like traveling. My plan is to retire late 50s with a similar sum of money, then move to some cheap Asian country for a handful of years while that balance continues to grow. Maybe return to the US more full-time with a bigger retirement balance and just take shorter but more frequent trips at that point.

The expat retirement idea is really attractive at first glance. There seems to be many good places in South and Central America, Mexico, Southeast Asia, maybe even Portugal, Spain, and some other European countries. The only thing that would keep me here is family ties.

 

[Jules A]

The expat retirement idea is really attractive at first glance. There seems to be many good places in South and Central America, Mexico, Southeast Asia, maybe even Portugal, Spain, and some other European countries. The only thing that would keep me here is family ties.

Medical care is an important consideration. Unless you fat FIRE early.

 

[Candidate2017]

Any certain age you guys are planning on reducing hours/retiring?

Part time. For life. Until I drift away peacefully on my chair, while my final patient is in the midst of whining about some banal life issue. I'd like to think that would put them therapy for life, thus continuing the cycle for another psychiatrist.

 

[calvnandhobbs68]

Medical care is an important consideration. Unless you fat FIRE early.

Yeah you don't want to be getting medical care in Central America or Southeast Asia...

Europe tends to be just as expensive, if not more expensive, than living in the US. I definitely get other reasons to want to retire to Europe (I'd love to retire to Germany for instance), but your dollar isn't gonna go any further there generally.

 

[finalpsychyear]

Great points. These days if you have a big mortgage (at ~3%, locked in before recent rate increases) and if inflation remains ~8%, inflation is basically paying off a meaningful chunk of your remaining balance year after year in terms of actual purchasing power.

I wasn't able to get a house before the rates popped due to people bidding 50-100k over asking. I thought it was ridiculous and am not really sure if you come out ahead overpaying by 100k on a 600-800k house if you pay it off in 15 years. I figured it would be close and I'd rather try and get lower prices as you can always refinance in a few years if rates go down then you got the house 100k cheaper and a rate somewhere between now and the crazy low interest rates.

 

[Bartelby]

I wasn't able to get a house before the rates popped due to people bidding 50-100k over asking. I thought it was ridiculous and am not really sure if you come out ahead overpaying by 100k on a 600-800k house if you pay it off in 15 years. I figured it would be close and I'd rather try and get lower prices as you can always refinance in a few years if rates go down then you got the house 100k cheaper and a rate somewhere between now and the crazy low interest rates.

Good point, though when I look at how much interest you would have to pay on a large mortgage now it is stomach-turning. We were thinking of moving up to a nicer home in a better school district but these mortgage increases with their corresponding increase in payment amounts make it feel impossible. You bring up a good point though that maybe you could get a decent deal if the rates do end up coming back down (though historically 8 percent mortgage rates were not unusual).