Retrospective PhD?

[catzzz88]

I heard from someone that an MD candidate at UPenn was considered and accepted as a retrospective PhD candidate. Meaning, she only added 2 extra years of classes+thesis defense onto her MD and was awarded a PhD. This was due to her extensive research as a research associate done prior to entering med school at Penn and multiple publications.

Can anyone corroborate this or has anyone ever heard of something like this?

I spoke with an MD/PhD counsel member at UCLA and was told that nothing like this exists because it would call into question the reputation of the PhD award from said university. She stated that PhD-candidate level research is highly mentored and guided and that simply being a research associate is not equivalent. She pretty much said that no reputable school would consider something like this.

Thoughts?

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[mercaptovizadeh]

I heard from someone that an MD candidate at UPenn was considered and accepted as a retrospective PhD candidate. Meaning, she only added 2 extra years of classes+thesis defense onto her MD and was awarded a PhD. This was due to her extensive research as a research associate done prior to entering med school at Penn and multiple publications.

Can anyone corroborate this or has anyone ever heard of something like this?

I spoke with an MD/PhD counsel member at UCLA and was told that nothing like this exists because it would call into question the reputation of the PhD award from said university. She stated that PhD-candidate level research is highly mentored and guided and that simply being a research associate is not equivalent. She pretty much said that no reputable school would consider something like this.

Thoughts?

What exactly is the point of the question? What are you going to do about it?

 

[uniqenam]

There are always unique circumstances at every school (and by unique I mean "this circumstance probably only exists once every 20 years" unique). I wouldn't count on that happening anywhere else.

 

[ratherbefishing]

I have heard of people getting "credit" in their PhD from work what was done prior to enrolling as a graduate student. Institutions give out PhDs under all sorts of circumstances.

 

[StIGMA]

"She stated that PhD-candidate level research is highly mentored and guided"

This is not the description of a PhD in many situations that I have observed. Typically, a more competent student requires less guidance. Mentorship varies tremendously... and almost always there is a deficiency.

If the candidate to which you refer has done research at the same institution that is awarding the PhD, then her previous research certainly could be credited to her PhD (meaning, she uses this data during her quals/defense/papers). Two years, however, is not much time to complete the classroom curricula and research. Contrarily, 2 years of full-time research added on to an established project can certainly be sufficient to substantiate a PhD (1-2 mid-high tier papers), IMO.

Is the PhD awarded for a body of work or for recognition of a higher utilization of reasoning? It is both, and if she is competent then her PhD will not be questioned.

 

[catzzz88]

What exactly is the point of the question? What are you going to do about it?

Well, if it is a real occurrence, I may be able to petition for it if I can build up a good argument.

That's why I am interested. Certain people at my school are pressuring me to go for the full MD/PhD, extending my full scholarship to 8 years instead of 4... But I am already a non-traditional who took 5 years off between undergrad and med school and I really think the PhD would be a waste of 4 years. However, if it was an additional 2 years only, I would very seriously consider their offer.

When a friend of mine told me about this student at UPenn, I instantly saw the parallels in my case and wondered if there may be a chance for me to do this as well.

If one were to build a case for this to present to the MD/PhD committee/board members, what would be some of the important points? In other words, (a) what would be the most important things that I would need to show them that I achieved/learned during the "retrospective time," (b) what evidence/points can I make to show them that this type of exception would not discredit their program, and (c) what could I discuss as the "pros" of this from their side?
In part (c), I mean what is the university gaining by allowing me to take only 2-3 years? This is the flaw I see in this exception: what is the school possibly gaining from allowing an exception of this type to occur?

 

[Neuronix]

I've never heard of this before. I've seen people with substantial research experience do a full MD/PhD just like anyone else. What I've seen commonly are students being asked not to stay in their undergraduate lab purposely so they start over and earn a "real" PhD. The other thing I see is people banking on their home MD/PhD program then not getting accepted.

 

[gbwillner]

I have seen this once. A lab tech in a lab for 10 years was on numerous publications. She then was accepted to the PhD program at the same institution, and joined the same PI for her mentor. She was able to continue the same projects as before, and only had to complete her coursework and thesis, which took just over 2 years.

 

[catzzz88]

I have seen this once. A lab tech in a lab for 10 years was on numerous publications. She then was accepted to the PhD program at the same institution, and joined the same PI for her mentor. She was able to continue the same projects as before, and only had to complete her coursework and thesis, which took just over 2 years.

Awesome! Thanks for the info. May I ask what university this was at?

I'm very curious about the whole process.

 

[jjmack]

You'll soon learn if you don't already know that even with "real Ph.D.s", they're not all created equal even from the same school.

 

[gbwillner]

Awesome! Thanks for the info. May I ask what university this was at?

I'm very curious about the whole process.

There was no special process. She did not have any special treatment. She went through the same classes and rotations as everyone else. But she had already been well-established in the field on multiple publications, and only needed just over a year to complete a thesis project. If this is similar to your experience, then you may be able to do it as well. But will all the chips line up the right way for you?

 

[catzzz88]

If this is similar to your experience, then you may be able to do it as well. But will all the chips line up the right way for you?

Probably not, but it's worth a shot. Thanks for your responses.