ROTC a bad idea for med school

[Lahey]

Hello

This is my first time on this forums - I have read a few articles concerning this issue, but I am still unsettled. To begin, I would like to start out by saying that my family will not back me in any way in my college endeavors and expect me to fully repay everything myself. Its not that they hate me or something like that, its just that my dad is a self made man and wants me to be the same. This led me to search for scholarships, to which I discovered that I will not get any full ride to any universities (besides Arizona state and such) with my ACT score of a 29. I have always had passion to serve my country, so I thought that getting an ROTC scholarship would be a dream come true after I learned about it. However, after reading previous threads here, I have learned that it is very complicated to balance ROTC with education. I personally want to be a physician for the armed forces (any branch). Maintaining a strong GPA, extracurriculars, and having a job as an EMT along with all the ROTC commitments is very tough as I can imagine. I am, however, willing to go in with full overdrive mode and face all the challenges I may come across - if it is necessary.

SO - knowing my situation now, what would you all recommend? Has anyone done this that can point me in the right direction? My goal is to obviously have the least amount of debt, and it is very frowned upon in my high school to go to community college. I dont know why, but coming from an extremely competitive school district, I guess it comes with the stigma of being "inferior". I am still a senior and dont have any obligations to do anything right now, so what can I do?

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[Unlucky Asian]

I don't think balancing is the big problem. I heard that getting an education delay to go to med school is. iirc if you don't get one, you will end up being a line officer.

 

[WernickeDO]

If you're interested in medical school, I would put community college out of your mind.

I'm not a ROTC guy but I have several friends that are. Apparently the quality of the ROTC program varies from school to school. I believe that during the week you focus 100% on school and the ROTC activities are on the weekends. If you are serious about medical school ROTC may actually be a help to you in forcing you to be organized during the week so you can drill on weekends. That may leave less time for your EMT job. You will most likely be put into a line unit upon graduation, med school admission or no. I have a friend who did just that; graduated and spent 2 years as an infantry officer before attending medical school. It is absolutely feasible but there will likely be a break between undergraduate and med school.

It is always difficult to predict the future, and you may find that in 4 years you no longer want to go to medical school. You may also find you don't want to be in the military. If you want to keep all the options open, try to go to your in-state university and live on ramen for a few years. Just remember that if you use the military as a means of paying for college you will be beholden to them for years afterwards. Or, have you considered enlisting now and using your GI bill later? You can be a medic in the military too.

Remember: many people who use the military as a means to pay for something end up regretting it later. Student loans are miserable, that's for sure. Exhaust every scholarship and grant possible, keep your living expenses low, avoid buying new expensive textbooks, and study something in the STEM fields and you will be positioned well to pay your debt off fairly quickly.

 

[Red Lobster Actual]

If you're interested in medical school, I would put community college out of your mind.

He will suffer a 25%-32% decrease chance if he goes to community college (CC) first.

http://journals.lww.com/academicmed...College_Pathways___Improving_the_U_S_.27.aspx

Granted medical school admissions is difficult as is but it is not impossible if one starts in community college. It really boils down to the individual and if he's mature enough to discipline himself in a CC environment. An A grade in General Bio from CC still has the same gpa weight as an A from State College.

However, not sure how transferring will affect ROTC eligibility...

 

[Red Lobster Actual]

Hello

This is my first time on this forums - I have read a few articles concerning this issue, but I am still unsettled. To begin, I would like to start out by saying that my family will not back me in any way in my college endeavors and expect me to fully repay everything myself. Its not that they hate me or something like that, its just that my dad is a self made man and wants me to be the same. This led me to search for scholarships, to which I discovered that I will not get any full ride to any universities (besides Arizona state and such) with my ACT score of a 29. I have always had passion to serve my country, so I thought that getting an ROTC scholarship would be a dream come true after I learned about it. However, after reading previous threads here, I have learned that it is very complicated to balance ROTC with education. I personally want to be a physician for the armed forces (any branch). Maintaining a strong GPA, extracurriculars, and having a job as an EMT along with all the ROTC commitments is very tough as I can imagine. I am, however, willing to go in with full overdrive mode and face all the challenges I may come across - if it is necessary.

SO - knowing my situation now, what would you all recommend? Has anyone done this that can point me in the right direction? My goal is to obviously have the least amount of debt, and it is very frowned upon in my high school to go to community college. I dont know why, but coming from an extremely competitive school district, I guess it comes with the stigma of being "inferior". I am still a senior and dont have any obligations to do anything right now, so what can I do?

OP, just go to the cheapest state school possible and work very hard and check all the admissions boxes. Most optimal would be to find a job that will allow you to pay the bills and be a clinical experience. One of my mentors went to probably the poopiest state school I know of and wound up in an Ivy League med school (anecdote as evidence I know I know...)

Otherwise listen to Dr. WenickeDO, his words are gold.

Huh...you're in the 93rd percentile according to your ACT score...that's somewhat promising. I was like in the 80th back when I was your age haha.

 

[DeadCactus]

Join ROTC if you want to be a line officer. It's a career decision, not a financial one. The financial aspect is going to an affordable university, majoring in something that will actually pay the bills if you bail or fail en-route to medical school, and living frugally. This forum and the ranks of the military are filled with people who were brow-beaten into fearing debt by a society that can't handle its finances. Going into debt to pay for a higher education is an investment and a matter of balancing your initial investment against your gain in income and happiness. It's not the same sort of debt that should be avoided at all costs like putting a giant TV on a credit card. Joining ROTC because being a line officer is something important to you is perfectly reasonable. Doing it because you're afraid of debt even when it means trading 4 years of civilian physician pay ($500,000 to $2,000,000 depending on specialty) for, at best, 4 years of military physician pay ($600,000) or, at worst, 4 years of junior line officer pay ($250,000) all for $40,000-60,000 in undergraduate costs is foolish.

 

[notdeadyet]

He will suffer a 25%-32% decrease chance if he goes to community college (CC) first.

http://journals.lww.com/academicmed...College_Pathways___Improving_the_U_S_.27.aspx

Are you maybe confusing causation with correlation?

This study doesn't indicate a 25-32% decreased chance of medical school admission if he goes to a community college. It only indicates that community college applicants are accepted to medical schools 25-32% less often.

In order to show a decreased chance of medical school admission due to going to a community college, you would have to control other variables, which this study did not.

Absent of that, you have to ask if someone who attended a community college is likely to be the same academic caliber as someone who went straight to a four year college, and the answer is an obvious "no." Students overwhelmingly attend community colleges for two main reasons: poor grades and poor finances. The former is obviously associated with lower medical school acceptances (and some would argue the latter is as well).

Folks on SDN harp on community college as a boogie man much moreso than most medical schools will. Applying to medial school having taken only the minimum science pre-requisites at a community college? Red flag. Attending a community college for two years followed by strong performance (including science coursework) at a four year school? No red flag. This is likely to become even moreso the case as medical schools actively pursue people with a diversity of backgrounds and life experiences, instead of the old school approach of the science major from a middle-upper class family.

Incidentally, I attended community college. I completed some (but not all) pre-reqs at a community college. Community college came up 0 times in medical school interviews.

 

[WernickeDO]

Are you maybe confusing causation with correlation?

This study doesn't indicate a 25-32% decreased chance of medical school admission if he goes to a community college. It only indicates that community college applicants are accepted to medical schools 25-32% less often.

In order to show a decreased chance of medical school admission due to going to a community college, you would have to control other variables, which this study did not.

Absent of that, you have to ask if someone who attended a community college is likely to be the same academic caliber as someone who went straight to a four year college, and the answer is an obvious "no." Students overwhelmingly attend community colleges for two main reasons: poor grades and poor finances. The former is obviously associated with lower medical school acceptances (and some would argue the latter is as well).

Folks on SDN harp on community college as a boogie man much moreso than most medical schools will. Applying to medial school having taken only the minimum science pre-requisites at a community college? Red flag. Attending a community college for two years followed by strong performance (including science coursework) at a four year school? No red flag. This is likely to become even moreso the case as medical schools actively pursue people with a diversity of backgrounds and life experiences, instead of the old school approach of the science major from a middle-upper class family.

Incidentally, I attended community college. I completed some (but not all) pre-reqs at a community college. Community college came up 0 times in medical school interviews.

You learn something new everyday on this forum. notdeadyet is the first doc I've met with a CC background. I rescind my earlier statement.

Not to wander off topic, but what about online courses? Not talking about from OnlineU, more like online courses from an established brick and mortar university. Does that impede admission to med school or is it a non-factor? This is something my medics ask me about from time to time so I would be interested to know.

 

[notdeadyet]

You learn something new everyday on this forum. notdeadyet is the first doc I've met with a CC background. I rescind my earlier statement.

In fairness, I'm likely the first one who told you about it. There's a fair bit of snobbery in medicine and some folks are sensitive. You probably know more people than you think who had free school lunches as a kid too, you know?

Not to wander off topic, but what about online courses? Not talking about from OnlineU, more like online courses from an established brick and mortar university. Does that impede admission to med school or is it a non-factor? This is something my medics ask me about from time to time so I would be interested to know.

Some medical schools will forbid it outright. I foolishly asked if my online stats class would be accepted for a pre-req and was told "no." I was accepted and was told I had to repeat the class prior to matriculating. I ended up having to get an adjusted work schedule to scramble to take it again. At a community college, ironically enough.

Many schools have varying policies. Some a accept online learning, but not for science pre-reqs (this is not uncommon). Some accept it for pre-reqs, but not for the lab components. Community college pre-reqs, on the other hand, were accepted by every medical school except one (somewhere in Boston) per a non-trad survey years ago.

I'd tell folks deployed to take science classes to see if they have an aptitude early on and if they've already established the interest, to take electives, but to try to take pre-reqs only in-person, if at all possible. A community college or local state school trumps any online learning. If you have to take on,one learning, choose a class that has a brick and mortar component and check to see if the on,one classes are tagged in their numbering.

But I'd be careful. If I wasn't able to swing repeating the online class at the last minute, I'd have had to decline the admission I was offered at my state school and head across the country to the private I was going to attend. Would have been a $150K mistake.

 

[Red Lobster Actual]

Are you maybe confusing causation with correlation?

Ah yes, thank you doctor. That definitely could have been worded better on my part.

 

[delicatefew24]

I did ROTC to HPSP for medical school. ROTC is for graduating unrestricted line officers, not medical students. Thus, you have to apply to even be allowed to apply to medical school. I would advise anyone who wants to be a military doctor not to go the ROTC/Academy route.

 

[ROTC_sucks]

I did ROTC to medical school and I would advise against it. While it helped with my resume to get me into a great medical school, the situation is strongly stacked against you in terms of time commitment, scheduling difficulties, and of course the wills of the Army.

I would only do ROTC if you are comfortable going into the military directly after college as a line officer. There are many threads on SDN that explore the situation further, but a good next step if you are looking to follow this path is to contact the ROTC program at the university that you are considering and ask to speak with pre-meds in the ROTC program/medical students who graduated from the program. If they are conspicuously absent or unreachable, take it as a red flag. Questions to ask: how many people have gone through the program to get to medical school? How many have tried and failed? Is the ROTC program supportive of the pre-med situation?

Also consider that ROTC covers tuition, some small expenses, and a miniscule stipend. You'll still be in debt from housing and living expenses (unless you find a supplemental income source, scholarship or have financial support). HPSP, while also controversial on this site, is a SIGNIFICANTLY better deal. College loans are 4% lower interest rates, medical school is way more expensive generally, the HPSP stipend (and bonus if that's still around) is significantly more, and HPSP guarantees a physician job while ROTC guarantees nothing about your future. Also HPSP has no requirements while you're in school whereas ROTC is a daily remember that you're committed to the Army doing non-medical things. I'm making the case that HPSP is way better than ROTC, and people still bash HPSP on this forum. That should give you an idea about ROTC.

By the way, WernickeDO's post about ROTC being a weekend job is absolutely false. I had PT at 6am 3-6 days a week, ROTC classroom 2 days a week, ROTC field lab once per week, and a weekend trip about every 1-2 months where there was no opportunity to study. Then junior year was even more intense, culminating in the ****-show that is LDAC for 2 months between junior and senior year (when medical school applications are starting).

As a side note, I empathize with your situation. I grew up in an affluent environment and was blindsided when the financial support for university was absent. I chose the ROTC route and while I'm proud of making it through to medical school and beyond, my college experience was the most miserable and intense four years of my life. Best of luck and remember that you'll be the only one who lives and deals with the decisions that you make--not your judgmental community.

 

[mw18]

You learn something new everyday on this forum. notdeadyet is the first doc I've met with a CC background. I rescind my earlier statement.

Not to wander off topic, but what about online courses? Not talking about from OnlineU, more like online courses from an established brick and mortar university. Does that impede admission to med school or is it a non-factor? This is something my medics ask me about from time to time so I would be interested to know.

FWIW, I'm prior service enlisted and not a doc yet but I attended a community college and had a successful admissions cycle (M1 now). I also took some online courses there, but I kept all my prereqs for in person and at a university.

I don't think it impedes the process if you realize that there probably isn't much of a bias against community college by adcoms, but probably more so by students who will end up being biased against by top applicants not choosing to.

 

[ordersol7]

I second everything ROTC_sucks says above. My 3rd year of college was absolute hell mainly because of trying to balance ROTC demands with putting an application for medical school together and getting all my other ECs in. Didn't help either that the cadre of my unit were not particularly understanding of pre-med issues. It wasn't an all together horrible experience since I made some good friends and there were some fun times at some of the field exercises but if I could do it over again I would just take out extra loans and perhaps look into doing national guard during medical school for some extra help. I am in the Guard now and going through the civilian match as opposed to the military one like the HPSP folk do so it worked out for me. If I hadn't gotten into medical school my first attempt though, there's a decent chance I'd just be a line officer right now.

Liked the comment about LDAC being a s***-show btw. That was truly the most asinine 28 days of my life thus far.

 

[bourbon&waffles]

I was ROTC --> USUHS. While ROTC is for creating line officers, rotc to med school is not a problem, and several of my classmates were in the same boat. Anyone who is competitive enough to get into med school is high enough on the OML (order of merit list, or ranking of ROTC cadets) to be granted an education delay. Its a great way to pay for college. Understand that after ROTC and HPSP/USUHS you will have a significant commitment (either 8 or 11 years if you do a full four years for both ROTC and HPSP or ROTC then USUHS) but if youre ok with lengthy service its a great way to avoid worrying about where next semesters tuition is coming from.

 

[j4pac]

I was ROTC --> USUHS. While ROTC is for creating line officers, rotc to med school is not a problem, and several of my classmates were in the same boat. Anyone who is competitive enough to get into med school is high enough on the OML (order of merit list, or ranking of ROTC cadets) to be granted an education delay. Its a great way to pay for college. Understand that after ROTC and HPSP/USUHS you will have a significant commitment (either 8 or 11 years if you do a full four years for both ROTC and HPSP or ROTC then USUHS) but if youre ok with lengthy service its a great way to avoid worrying about where next semesters tuition is coming from.

Senior year of high school my priorities were:
1) hooking up with Asian chicks
2) saving up for a used Skyline R34
3) getting into college then med school

Life changes folks! I could never advise someone making the decision to join the military IN HIGH SCHOOL, unless they are left with absolutely no other options. Get your 16 year old girlfriend...soon to be wife...pregnant, you don't have job prospects, and your parents are kicking you out of the house? That is the perfect candidate to make a commitment to the military in high school.

Well...I sort of matured in college and realized that American girls can be pretty cool and that though the R34 is still awesome, the cost of acquiring one in the states would be astronomical. But I was still single (for the most part), excited for an adventure...and signed up for HPSP.

In med school I get married to a round eye girl...and in internship I have a set of twins. Does going to Japan seem as appealing now? Not so much. The kicker is that I changed my mind from FP/Sports to Ortho to PM&R...all within a 6 month time period in 3rd year of med school. The Navy doesn't have PM&R...so now 6 years after med school finished, I am finally going back to residency.

Just something to think about guys. Having flexibility to adapt when life changes is priceless. You have no flexibility in the military.

 

[trixmd]

I did ROTC >> USU, and it was a gamble that paid off for me. Last year's graduating NROTC class had no medical corps slots, so aspiring midshipmen were forced to put their hopes on hold. If you REALLY want to be a doctor, and can afford to pay for college, there are better ways than ROTC or the academies.

 

[Trefoil]

Hello

This is my first time on this forums - I have read a few articles concerning this issue, but I am still unsettled. To begin, I would like to start out by saying that my family will not back me in any way in my college endeavors and expect me to fully repay everything myself. Its not that they hate me or something like that, its just that my dad is a self made man and wants me to be the same. This led me to search for scholarships, to which I discovered that I will not get any full ride to any universities (besides Arizona state and such) with my ACT score of a 29. I have always had passion to serve my country, so I thought that getting an ROTC scholarship would be a dream come true after I learned about it. However, after reading previous threads here, I have learned that it is very complicated to balance ROTC with education. I personally want to be a physician for the armed forces (any branch). Maintaining a strong GPA, extracurriculars, and having a job as an EMT along with all the ROTC commitments is very tough as I can imagine. I am, however, willing to go in with full overdrive mode and face all the challenges I may come across - if it is necessary.

SO - knowing my situation now, what would you all recommend? Has anyone done this that can point me in the right direction? My goal is to obviously have the least amount of debt, and it is very frowned upon in my high school to go to community college. I dont know why, but coming from an extremely competitive school district, I guess it comes with the stigma of being "inferior". I am still a senior and dont have any obligations to do anything right now, so what can I do?

I don't know where you are in the process, but I figure others will look into this thread for advice. I did in fact do ROTC and am currently a medical student. I am about to graduate for the record. It was definitely not a fun process. If you do this, you will find that you are working much harder than the average ROTC or pre-med student. You have a lot of pressure to succeed in both avenues. I have seen many people fail to finish ROTC as well as the pre-med curriculum, so you have to be absolutely committed in order to pull this off. I can't say that I did spectacular in either field, but I did well enough in both in order to go to school, and I must say that med school has been fairly easy in comparison. Please take that last statement seriously. Med school pales in comparison to balancing these two very different commitments. I went through the Army. In the Army, you do not need to be stellar to receive an ed delay, but you have to be qualified (this should be obvious since getting into med school is the ultimate goal). Because I was qualified for medical school, I never found the educational delay particularly concerning (there may have been a small piece of my mind that said what if, but I knew the reality). If you are qualified for medical school in the Army, they will give you the delay, but you still need to be admitted in order for the ed delay to stick. The Army is also the best branch in terms of residency training opportunities (I know Air Force people who did not match to "easy" specialties despite being qualified.)

I think others have reflected the sentiment that you really have to be ready for this commitment. I will be honest when I say that I struggled a lot with this decision throughout my undergraduate career. While you friends are studying for the chemistry exam over the weekend, you will sometimes be out sleeping in the cold rain or wandering the forest. Yes, it is fun, but when you get back to reality, you have to do just as well or better than your peers on that exam. This was absolutely the worst feeling at times, but you try to push it to the back of your head. The other issue is being very much dislodged from your home. Your time with your family will be very limited. You will have grandparents and family members pass away while you are far away. You will need to make the time to return to pay your last respects and to make peace. I am very happy with my life, but I am acutely aware of my sacrifices. Sometimes, you think that being a school teacher would have been just as satisfying without all the sacrifice. Please consider everything I have said very carefully prior to committing. Everything will be harder with ROTC. Everything.

 

[ordersol7]

StupidRoo above put it better than I ever could.

I definitely struggled with balancing the 2 demands. I did reasonably well in both (mostly because gpa is the biggest factor in how the military ranks you on the oml despite how much they try to tell you how much they value "good leaders"), but it sure as hell wasn't easy.
Even after getting accepted into medical school I still felt incredible pressure to do well in ROTC because you spend so much time with those people and they have the ability to make your life complete hell if you displease them in some way. A lot of the time it felt like I was leading a double life since a lot of the things valued by ROTC cadets and cadre don't align with what medical schools respect in potential matriculants and in fact may be contradictory.
My ROTC program mandated required training at 6 am 4 days a week along with mandatory training weekends once a semester AND leadership roles in M3 and M4 year which largely consists of you contacting junior cadets throughout the day and making sure you are keeping them squared away on their uniform, equipment, being prepared for training etc. It also consists of being evaluated on your leadership skills, which is a COMPLETELY asanine process in which people only a year ahead in their training give you evaluations on how good a fake squad leader or PL you are that count toward your grade and are largely out of your control since every evaluator has a different idea of what "leadership" means and the graded categories are on things like "Mental Agility", "Resilience", and "Innovation". Evaluations during 3rd year of medical school are downright fair by comparison. At least most medical school faculty have years of experience grading students, residents typically don't have THAT much influence on your grade, and the categories are more specific (medical knowledge, note-writing, presentations, etc).
All of this would be tolerable, if not for the fact that time you are spending being a good ROTC cadet is time you are NOT spending either beefing up your application for medical school or doing necessary de-stressing. Getting an ed delay or a national guard slot is largely a given if you're competitive enough for medical school, especially since national guard slots typically go to people who weren't high enough on the OML for active duty. But the bigger issue is that the commitment for ROTC may very well screw with your other goals, and the risks are simply not worth it. There are plenty of ways to get the military to pay the difference after medical school is done, like direct commissioning or loan repayment through the guard.
Bottom Line: You should go to ROTC if you want to be a line officer in the military. That is the ONLY reason you should consider it. If you have any graduate school ambitions (especially medical school) I think most would agree you are better off just being a regular college student like your peers and not being a part time pretend-Rambo while you're at it.

 

[dwb8p]

Agree 100% with above. I am a current resident who went through Army ROTC then USUHS. Although I enjoyed most of my experiences and friends in ROTC, it was frankly a waste of time and money. If I could do it over again, I would skip ROTC but still go to USUHS (and yes I had multiple allopathic acceptances).

 

[Tabiyou]

To each their own. I went to USNA, and commissioned as a Marine Infantry Officer. I will be 30 when I start medical school this fall. I loved my time as an undergrad, being forward deployed, and the bonds I shared with my Marines. I still keep in contact with them. Yes, it does suck that I will be that old when I start school. Serving as an Officer taught me leadership and personal accountability. I would not be the mature person I am today had I not served. If you can make peace with the fact that you will had several careers before you go the Medical route and older relative to your peers, then I suggest trying to obtain a ROTC scholarship.

 

[Homunculus]

i did a 4 year ROTC (pre 9/11)+HPSP (also signed up pre 9/11), and there's no need to rehash my story because it is reflected in various ways above. in hindsight, i was fortunate i was able to have things fall into place-- ignorance truly is bliss sometimes. i was anxious enough with the "one shot" medical school application, my anxiety would have been through the roof had i known what i know now. to add to my own misery, i was cross enrolled between a small liberal arts university (primary school) and the local state school that had a ROTC program. this was bad enough with scheduling, but at the time since the military was discriminatory against sexual orientation, my university didn't grant credit for ROTC classes. so a 15 hr class load at my school was really 18 due to ROTC. i took some summer classes to lighten the school year load which helped, but my college days didn't reflect most people's i imagine. i was still active academically, was in a fraternity, all that jazz, but it definitely was much busier than it needed to be.

if you are 100% "medschool is the only acceptable path after college" mind set, avoid ROTC. if you can swallow getting a broader life experience (which there are some positive angles to in regards to your application having more "oomph", and though it may seem like forever really a 4 year delay isn't that big of a deal) then ROTC may be a good fit.

-- your friendly neighborhood just posting this for posterity and future google searches caveman

 

[Steel_City71]

Navy ROTC Grad here...currently a SWO probably going to medical school this fall. I would definitely advice against ROTC if you want to be "secure" in going to medical school and becoming an MD. I realized I wanted to be an MD somewhere in my freshman year of college while shadowing Navy Docs and such. I learned it was possible to go to medical school post NROTC but over time I realized that was more of a golden unicorn than any certainty even if you are able to graduate with a high GPA, MCAT, extracirriculars, research, proven commitment to want to be an MD, actual acceptance to medical school, etc. Like most have echoed above me ROTC is for Line Officers! Thats why I am a Surface Warfare Officer (SWO) right now. Somehow I juggled ROTC, Pre-Med, and volunteering as an EMT in college but it was not easy especially when noone else is on the same path as you/ dosent understand what you are doing. I was informed the Monday after I returned from my first medical school interview that I was SWO selected! Thank God that happened when it did because otherwise the unit would never have let me travel 1000 miles to go interview there and luckily that same school granted me a 2 year deferral purely based on my word that I would do everything possible to continue to try to get in. I had to cancel all my other interview offers because there was no way they would let me travel to those.

I dont regret a day I have had as a line officer (except OC Spray day), I think it has benefitted me in inumerable ways and provides me valuable insight to the military prior to probably becoming a military doc but if I had advice to give dont do ROTC unless you expect to more than likely serve some time or your whole commitment as a line officer. Best of luck with your decision.

 

[aftomdhopeful]

Wow I am amazed to read all of these stories, especially because of how similar they are to mine! Balancing pre-med requirements with the life of a ROTC cadet, especially one from a liberal arts college with a cross town agreement and no academic credit, is truly awful. I would not say there was much of my college experience that was fun, as I spent nearly all of my time studying, trying to build a med school resume, or completing ROTC commitments. In my junior year, I learned my commander would not allow me to apply for medical school so I am starting medical school 7 years after I graduated college. I got lucky because I had a commander on active duty who supported my goals, allowed me to get my masters, and maintain my med school resume. I do not regret the life experiences I have had post college, but if I could have done literally anything else (minus perhaps prostitution) to finance my education and reach my goals quicker, I definitely would have done so.

 

[DeadCactus]

To each their own. I went to USNA, and commissioned as a Marine Infantry Officer. I will be 30 when I start medical school this fall. I loved my time as an undergrad, being forward deployed, and the bonds I shared with my Marines. I still keep in contact with them. Yes, it does suck that I will be that old when I start school. Serving as an Officer taught me leadership and personal accountability. I would not be the mature person I am today had I not served. If you can make peace with the fact that you will had several careers before you go the Medical route and older relative to your peers, then I suggest trying to obtain a ROTC scholarship.

I don't think many, if any, would begrudge a pre-med wanting to put off medical school a few years because being a line officer is important to them. There's nothing wrong with achieving other life goals before locking into the 7+ year commitment of medical education. What is posted here far more often though is a pre-med who has been fear-mongered into avoiding debt at all costs and is now being lured into bad financial and career decisions by military recruiters. Plenty of medical students get through without financial support from family. They take out loans and generally do better financially in the long run than their ROTC, HPSP, and USUHS counterparts. And while there are some success stories posted here there are also folks who missed their chance at a career in medicine because ROTC destroyed their grades, life got in the way during their 4 year detour, they sustained a career limiting injury, etc. But those folks have no reason to post here. It all comes down to what your priority is.

 

[psychbender]

Take the HPSP scholarship if you dont mind serving 7+ years after residency (they'll lie and say 1 for 1 year service incurrment, but really its more since more time is added if you go through the military match, and 95% of people do).

Say what? Do ROTC grads get a different HPSP contract than the rest of us? If not, you're smoking crack.

The HPSP obligation is equal to the number of years that they paid for med school, which for most people will be 4. The obligation from residency is equal to the number of post-graduate years of training for that specialty, minus one (internship doesn't count towards incurring obligation). If you do IM, that's 2 years of residency after internship, so a 2 year obligation. That obligation is served CONCURRENTLY with your HPSP obligation, such that your service obligation is still just 4 years after residency. If you do general surgery, which is 5 years after internship, you come out with a total 5 year obligation after residency. You are in uniform more time by doing a military residency rather than civilian deferment (in the general surgery example, you'd be in uniform 11 years), but the post-residency obligation only increases if you do a long residency.

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[backrow]

Yeah, not sure what they are getting at. The HPSP/USUHS payback is the same for everyone, doesn't matter commissioning source. The difference is you have to tack on the ROTC or Academy obligation as those are consecutive. And that's definitely not hidden or unknown.


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[ijustwannasaveppl]

Thank you so much! This really helped me make a decision on whether or not I should do ROTC. I don't think I could handle acting one way at class and another in training.

StupidRoo above put it better than I ever could.

I definitely struggled with balancing the 2 demands. I did reasonably well in both (mostly because gpa is the biggest factor in how the military ranks you on the oml despite how much they try to tell you how much they value "good leaders"), but it sure as hell wasn't easy.
Even after getting accepted into medical school I still felt incredible pressure to do well in ROTC because you spend so much time with those people and they have the ability to make your life complete hell if you displease them in some way. A lot of the time it felt like I was leading a double life since a lot of the things valued by ROTC cadets and cadre don't align with what medical schools respect in potential matriculants and in fact may be contradictory.
My ROTC program mandated required training at 6 am 4 days a week along with mandatory training weekends once a semester AND leadership roles in M3 and M4 year which largely consists of you contacting junior cadets throughout the day and making sure you are keeping them squared away on their uniform, equipment, being prepared for training etc. It also consists of being evaluated on your leadership skills, which is a COMPLETELY asanine process in which people only a year ahead in their training give you evaluations on how good a fake squad leader or PL you are that count toward your grade and are largely out of your control since every evaluator has a different idea of what "leadership" means and the graded categories are on things like "Mental Agility", "Resilience", and "Innovation". Evaluations during 3rd year of medical school are downright fair by comparison. At least most medical school faculty have years of experience grading students, residents typically don't have THAT much influence on your grade, and the categories are more specific (medical knowledge, note-writing, presentations, etc).
All of this would be tolerable, if not for the fact that time you are spending being a good ROTC cadet is time you are NOT spending either beefing up your application for medical school or doing necessary de-stressing. Getting an ed delay or a national guard slot is largely a given if you're competitive enough for medical school, especially since national guard slots typically go to people who weren't high enough on the OML for active duty. But the bigger issue is that the commitment for ROTC may very well screw with your other goals, and the risks are simply not worth it. There are plenty of ways to get the military to pay the difference after medical school is done, like direct commissioning or loan repayment through the guard.
Bottom Line: You should go to ROTC if you want to be a line officer in the military. That is the ONLY reason you should consider it. If you have any graduate school ambitions (especially medical school) I think most would agree you are better off just being a regular college student like your peers and not being a part time pretend-Rambo while you're at it.