Sackler School of Medicine or Reapply?

[arijoy614]

I am currently waitlisted at three med schools: nymc, buffalo, and stony brook.

I have a 514 MCAT, 6.64 gpa and 6.53 science gpa.

I interviewed for the Sackler School of Medicine in Tel Aviv. I am Jewish and have family there so it seemed like a good option, but I can't decide if I don't get off any waitlists if I would choose Sackler or reapply.

I am currently a clinical research coordinator at a top cancer research hospital- so if I reapplied I would have a ton of clinical hours (which I didn't have in my first app) as well as recommendations from 3 physicians.

If I get into Sackler, I am nervous at the gamble of turning them down and not getting in anywhere in my second cycle.

Any thoughts appreciated !

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[Shunsui]

Figure out what the deadline is for committing to Sackler. Honestly never heard of them but 3 WL to your NY schools should likely result in an A in May. I would prepare and send a LOI to your #1 very soon here (not that it holds a lot of weight but you have nothing to lose). Assuming you got 3 II this cycle, I don't see you struggling next year if you had to reapply. I know nothing of Sackler but USMD will always trump any other institution.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

FYI: Match Day 2022 – American Medical Program Tel Aviv University

Do you have an offer?

I don't know if they adhere to CYMS because I don't think they are in AMCAS, but if they don't, you can accept their offer and see if any of the other waitlists become offers. I'm guessing you need to know how much help you get with Step 1/2 and matching. I don't know if you would be a IMG, though technically you would be.

 

[KnightDoc]

I am currently waitlisted at three med schools: nymc, buffalo, and stony brook.

I have a 514 MCAT, 6.64 gpa and 6.53 science gpa.

I interviewed for the Sackler School of Medicine in Tel Aviv. I am Jewish and have family there so it seemed like a good option, but I can't decide if I don't get off any waitlists if I would choose Sackler or reapply.

I am currently a clinical research coordinator at a top cancer research hospital- so if I reapplied I would have a ton of clinical hours (which I didn't have in my first app) as well as recommendations from 3 physicians.

If I get into Sackler, I am nervous at the gamble of turning them down and not getting in anywhere in my second cycle.

Any thoughts appreciated !

Follow your gut. Sackler is a rare exception to the rule about avoiding foreign medical schools, since they have relationships in the states and are well respected. OTOH, moving to Israel is a big deal, and if you are having second thoughts, I'd avoid it. Given that you received at least 3 IIs this cycle, I'd say you'd have an excellent chance at success in a future cycle, if things don't work out this year, with an additional ton of clinical research hours.

TBH, to avoid having to lie on a future application about turning downing an A, I'd withdraw from Sackler if you are not excited about the prospect of going, rather than screwing around, waiting to see what happens, if you think you don't have the stomach to spend the next 4 years in the Middle East. Good luck!!

TLDR -- don't be nervous about not having success in future cycles. You'll be fine with your background and profile. Be nervous about turning down Sackler and then needing to lie about it later. If you don't want to go to Israel, withdraw from Sackler before they have a chance to accept you.

 

[arijoy614]

FYI: Match Day 2022 – American Medical Program Tel Aviv University

Do you have an offer?

I don't know if they adhere to CYMS because I don't think they are in AMCAS, but if they don't, you can accept their offer and see if any of the other waitlists become offers. I'm guessing you need to know how much help you get with Step 1/2 and matching. I don't know if you would be a IMG, though technically you would be.

no offer lol but the interview went well and they have a quick turnaround time to make a decision so I wanna figure out what I want in case that happens..

I asked about step 1 and 2 and they said sackler students historically score well and their match list has been pretty solid the past few years. But the applying as IMG definitely adds another layer of difficulty and the interviewer said it definitely makes extra hoops to jump thru

 

[arijoy614]

Follow your gut. Sackler is a rare exception to rule about avoiding foreign medical schools, since they have relationships in the states and are well respected. OTOH, moving to Israel is a big deal, and if you are having second thoughts, I'd avoid it. Given that you received at least 3 IIs this cycle, I'd say you'd have an excellent chance at success in a future cycle, if things don't work out this year, with an additional ton of clinical research hours.

TBH, to avoid having to lie on a future application about turning downing an A, I'd withdraw from Sackler if you are not excited about the prospect of going, rather than screwing around, waiting to see what happens, if you think you don't have the stomach to spend the next 4 years in the Middle East. Good luck!!

TLDR -- don't be nervous about not having success in future cycles. You'll be fine with your background and profile. Be nervous about turning down Sackler and then needing to lie about it later. If you don't want to go to Israel, withdraw from Sackler before they have a chance to accept you.

I have to disclose acceptances even from schools outside of AMCAS?

 

[homunculusus]

Take the acceptance. Schools like Sackler, Technion, MSIH, and UQ-Ochsner are on the same level as low-tier USMD (and sometimes even mid-tier). These schools (especially Sackler and UQ-Ochsner) consistently match in areas like derm, ortho, ENT, ophtho and in good numbers rivaling that of low-mid tier USMD. Sackler is treated as USMD in the state of NY and the name is very well known in the NE region. I would even advise attending such schools over DO.

There is a great misconception that foreign schools are all icky. That reputation is brought on by the thousands of sub-par applicants from Caribbean and Polish/eastern european diploma mills. Reputable schools like the ones in Israel and other developed nations are respected. That's why you often see people from places like Karolinska (sweden) and Oxford match at places like MGH (Harvard)

Match rates and locations

Join a medical school with a 96% residency match. Study in Australia and New Orleans. Find out more.

ochsner.uq.edu.au

Match Day 2018 – American Medical Program Tel Aviv University

www.sacklerschool.org

 

[KnightDoc]

I have to disclose acceptances even from schools outside of AMCAS?

You don't "have" to do anything. You can lie when asked if you have ever been accepted to a medical school, as long as you can live with yourself and the consequences in the unlikely case you get caught. When they ask, they are certainly not qualifying the question by only asking about AMCAS schools. Whether they have an ability to check is up in the air, but unlikely in the case of an Israeli medical school, although it could certainly come back to bite you at the NY schools with which Sackler has affiliations.

The bigger question is why are you screwing around with this? If you want to go to Sackler, pray for the acceptance and go. If not, withdraw before it becomes an issue. Why put yourself in this position? What's going to change between now and the summer?

 

[homunculusus]

I have to disclose acceptances even from schools outside of AMCAS?

You don't have to and no one will ever find out. It comes down to your morals. Thousands lie each year on such questions and also on the entire AMCAS/AACOMAS application itself and during the interview - and get away with it. It comes down to you.

The same way that many applying DO will tell schools they didn't apply MD or those applying to new schools will not mention they're reapplicants. The same when med students lie about having school meetings to skip/leave early on rotations. You will

 

[KnightDoc]

You don't have to and no one will ever find out. It comes down to your morals. Thousands lie each year on such questions and also on the entire AMCAS/AACOMAS application itself and during the interview - and get away with it. It comes down to you.

The same way that many applying DO will tell schools they didn't apply MD or those applying to new schools will not mention they're reapplicants

It actually comes down to risk aversion in addition to morals. Sure, the risk of getting caught lying is low, but it's not like it never happens. The consequences of getting caught lying tend to be disproportionate, and that tends to keep most people in line. Not to mention a lot of people actually have morals. YMMV.

I personally don't think the lost sleep is worth lying about something that is easily avoidable, like turning down an acceptance at a school I don't want to attend. I actually saved a few bucks by not applying to schools I didn't want to go to, but that's just me.

 

[homunculusus]

It actually comes down to risk aversion in addition to morals. Sure, the risk of getting caught lying is low, but it's not like it never happens. The consequences of getting caught lying tend to be disproportionate, and that tends to keep most people in line. Not to mention a lot of people actually have morals. YMMV.

I personally don't think the lost sleep is worth lying about something that is easily avoidable, like turning down an acceptance at a school I don't want to attend. I actually saved a few bucks by not applying to schools I didn't want to go to, but that's just me.

I agree with you. As a non-trad I had no problems making the right decisions when I was in OPs shoes but I understand some of the younger crowd may act differently. For example, many of my classmates try to lie to get out of school mandated events but if they just budget their time properly they wouldn't need to do all of that

 

[KnightDoc]

I agree with you. As a non-trad I had no problems making the right decisions when I was in OPs shoes but I understand some of the younger crowd may act differently. For example, many of my classmates try to lie to get out of school mandated events but if they just budget their time properly they wouldn't need to do all of that

Yup. Especially here, where OP is having second thoughts before he even has the A.

 

[deleted771945]

I would even advise attending such schools over DO.

Pump the brakes there son.

 

[AvsPearTree]

FYI: Match Day 2022 – American Medical Program Tel Aviv University

Do you have an offer?

I don't know if they adhere to CYMS because I don't think they are in AMCAS, but if they don't, you can accept their offer and see if any of the other waitlists become offers. I'm guessing you need to know how much help you get with Step 1/2 and matching. I don't know if you would be a IMG, though technically you would be.

Mr. Smile has the most reasonable take on this. Sackler seems to be a good school and will help you achieve your ultimate goal of becoming a doctor. Just need to ask yourself if you prefer living in the U.S. or would enjoy living in Israel.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Take the acceptance. Schools like Sackler, Technion, MSIH, and UQ-Ochsner are on the same level as low-tier USMD (and sometimes even mid-tier). These schools (especially Sackler and UQ-Ochsner) consistently match in areas like derm, ortho, ENT, ophtho and in good numbers rivaling that of low-mid tier USMD. Sackler is treated as USMD in the state of NY and the name is very well known in the NE region. I would even advise attending such schools over DO.

There is a great misconception that foreign schools are all icky. That reputation is brought on by the thousands of sub-par applicants from Caribbean and Polish/eastern european diploma mills. Reputable schools like the ones in Israel and other developed nations are respected. That's why you often see people from places like Karolinska (sweden) and Oxford match at places like MGH (Harvard)

Match rates and locations

Join a medical school with a 96% residency match. Study in Australia and New Orleans. Find out more.

ochsner.uq.edu.au

Match Day 2018 – American Medical Program Tel Aviv University

www.sacklerschool.org

don’t some programs/PDs just filter out all IMG/FMG at the click of a button via filters. Ie. Eyes may never see the application

 

[arijoy614]

Figure out what the deadline is for committing to Sackler. Honestly never heard of them but 3 WL to your NY schools should likely result in an A in May. I would prepare and send a LOI to your #1 very soon here (not that it holds a lot of weight but you have nothing to lose). Assuming you got 3 II this cycle, I don't see you struggling next year if you had to reapply. I know nothing of Sackler but USMD will always trump any other institution.

They give a two week deadline to decide if you want to go.

 

[arijoy614]

Yup. Especially here, where OP is having second thoughts before he even has the A.

I don't think its crazy to have second thoughts about leaving everyone I know behind to live in Israel. I'm just trying to figure out what I want in case, I'm not assuming Ill get the A :/

 

[KnightDoc]

I don't think its crazy to have second thoughts about leaving everyone I know behind to live in Israel. I'm just trying to figure out what I want in case, I'm not assuming Ill get the A :/

No, it's not crazy at all! My strong advice is to figure it out NOW, and not procrastinate until after you receive an A if you think you are going to get cold feet. It's totally understandable if you have second thoughts and withdraw before you receive a decision. Just make believe your two week timer started 13 days ago and make a decision. Haven't you been thinking about this literally for months already?

Turning down an acceptance is looked down upon by schools. Lying is looked down upon by schools. Lying about turning down an acceptance is looked down upon by schools. Whether or not you are faced with a decision to do these things in the future is entirely within your control NOW. If you put it off and have a problem later, involving either disclosing or getting caught lying in not disclosing, you will have no one but yourself to blame.

 

[futuretrashwoman]

FYI: Match Day 2022 – American Medical Program Tel Aviv University

Do you have an offer?

I don't know if they adhere to CYMS because I don't think they are in AMCAS, but if they don't, you can accept their offer and see if any of the other waitlists become offers. I'm guessing you need to know how much help you get with Step 1/2 and matching. I don't know if you would be a IMG, though technically you would be.

Woah, this is pretty impressive... neurosurgery.. wow.

 

[arijoy614]

No, it's not crazy at all! My strong advice is to figure it out NOW, and not procrastinate until after you receive an A if you think you are going to get cold feet. It's totally understandable if you have second thoughts and withdraw before you receive a decision. Just make believe your two week timer started 13 days ago and make a decision. Haven't you been thinking about this literally for months already?

Turning down an acceptance is looked down upon by schools. Lying is looked down upon by schools. Lying about turning down an acceptance is looked down upon by schools. Whether or not you are faced with a decision to do these things in the future is entirely within your control NOW. If you put it off and have a problem later, involving either disclosing or getting caught lying in not disclosing, you will have no one but yourself to blame.

I applied to Tel Aviv last Tuesday and got the interview invite Thursday! Havent had a minute to think about it really. Appreciate your advice

 

[KnightDoc]

I applied to Tel Aviv last Tuesday and got the interview invite Thursday! Havent had a minute to think about it really. Appreciate your advice

I'm shocked that the time line is so compressed. Even so, I am begging you to go in with your eyes wide open, and not think you have the luxury to think about it on the back end. Most people don't apply to schools they are unwilling to attend. It is frowned upon by the entire med school establishment.

Similarly, most people don't turn down acceptances when they don't have another one. It demonstrates a serious lack of judgment and, again, is frowned upon. Please don't put yourself in this position. Sackler is either a wonderful opportunity or it isn't. You really should have thought about it before you applied, and now should really think about it before you are accepted.

The worst that can happen, if you are accepted, turn it down, lie about it, and are somehow outed later, is that you get thrown out of whatever school you end up attending. Highly unlikely, but not impossible. Schools take lying on applications very seriously.

If the possibility of having to worry about and bear that risk is not worth seriously thinking about whether you are willing to move to Israel for med school until after you receive an acceptance, then, by all means, take your time. Most people don't put themselves in that position, and for good reason. Good luck!!

 

[homunculusus]

Woah, this is pretty impressive... neurosurgery.. wow.

Sackler students rotate at Ivy league and some of the best hospitals in the US (plus Israeli healthcare is on the same level as the US and they're even further ahead than US/Japan in spying and technology). Many people are misinformed by saying "PDs will filter you out as an IMG if you go to Sackler". There are many (MANY) high-caliber programs that do not have such filters and it is why you see students match there in all specialties (even derm, ENT, ophtho) from schools like Sackler, Karolinska, AUB (Beirut, Lebanon)

Sackler alumnus and faculty can make a phone call and get someone an interview and their word matters a lot. UQ-Ochsner on the otherhand often takes their own students for competitive specialties at their LA programs - it's the same as the "good" DO schools that have their own GME programs and favor their own students over other DOs and even over MDs

It's not as black and white as MD>DO>IMG. If the MD is a prestigious school in a developed country (Israel, sweden, germany, UK, Aus) then (in some) cases it is far better than DO and sometimes (rarely but applicable) better than low-tier MDs