San Juan Bautista MD school loses accreditation

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alej1020 said:
Some premeds here are just pathetic. They are just too deep into their own situation to allow themselves to sympathize with others well above him. I just had a an adcoms member form a state school tell me that there is NO correlation between MCAT scores and GPA as a predictor of how medical students are going to do in their steps and so on.
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That's not true, at all. There is definitely a correlation. Just think about it - do you really think someone with a 2.9 and a 21 on the MCAT won't have a problem with Step 1? It would destroy them.
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So, any word from SJB students on what their plans are? Have any of them found spots at other schools?

I seem to remember reading in a thread about new schools that if a new school with preliminary accreditation, after four years, failed to recieve full accreditation, that there was some kind of back up plan that spots would be found at other schools. I think that thread was about new DO schools though.
 
I was just talking with a Professor at my university and he just told me that Ponce school of medicine just got its probation extended till February, and that they're in serious trouble of losing their accreditation..if this happens, its gonna be absolute chaos.

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Smachadams said:
I was just talking with a Professor at my university and he just told me that Ponce school of medicine just got its probation extended till February, and that they're in serious trouble of losing their accreditation..if this happens, its gonna be absolute chaos.

orig-11500591.jpg
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Next thing you know they're going to ex-communicate Puerto Rico.
 
CodeBlu said:
Can I have discount?
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Only if you were willing to write up my "medical excuses" during next year's NBA finals.. :rolleyes:

I think I'm gonna come down with the swine flu...how long is that incubation period again? :smuggrin:
 
Loss of accreditation for Puerto Rican Med Schools = More Puerto Rican (read URM Hispanic) applicants and matriculates at mainland schools = less spots for non Puerto Ricans.

Oh lawd...
 
TheProwler said:
That's not true, at all. There is definitely a correlation. Just think about it - do you really think someone with a 2.9 and a 21 on the MCAT won't have a problem with Step 1? It would destroy them.
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Hey now. Lets not let those bothersome facts ruin everybody's recreational outrage.
 
centrigeugle said:
Hey now. Lets not let those bothersome facts ruin everybody's recreational outrage.
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You still don't get it. Whether or not MCAT scores correlate to Step 1/2 scores is irrelevant in the topic at hand. If you enter an LCME accredited medical school, pass all of your coursework, and pass Steps 1 and 2 you should graduate with and MD. Case closed. Have YOU been accepted to a an LCME accredited medical school, anywhere, yet? Have YOU passed Step 2? This school failed these students, and the students should in no way be taking the blame, or any of your bull****. What your MCAT score was 4 years ago is irrelevant.

I guess you need to get the high MCAT superiority out of your system now. After day 1 of medical school, no one will care about your MCAT score. And residency directors don't take it into consideration either.

And PS, the offer still stands. Run along now.
 
flatearth22 said:
Loss of accreditation for Puerto Rican Med Schools = More Puerto Rican (read URM Hispanic) applicants and matriculates at mainland schools = less spots for non Puerto Ricans.

Oh lawd...
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Actually since medical schools only need to have a certain percentage of URM students (Not a certain number, but you know what I mean)... Just because there's more pre-med URMs doesn't mean that med schools will actually take more.. If anything the standards will go up for the URM hispanics.

Don't be mad just cause the med school Gods hate asians in general :p
 
Smachadams said:
I was just talking with a Professor at my university and he just told me that Ponce school of medicine just got its probation extended till February, and that they're in serious trouble of losing their accreditation..if this happens, its gonna be absolute chaos.

orig-11500591.jpg
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Wow, if I were a student at PSM, or at UCC for that matter, I would be pretty freaked out right about now. I was thinking about applying to PR schools....
 
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HumbleMD said:
You still don't get it. Whether or not MCAT scores correlate to Step 1/2 scores is irrelevant in the topic at hand. If you enter an LCME accredited medical school, pass all of your coursework, and pass Steps 1 and 2 you should graduate with and MD. Case closed. Have YOU been accepted to a an LCME accredited medical school, anywhere, yet? Have YOU passed Step 2? This school failed these students, and the students should in no way be taking the blame, or any of your bull****. What your MCAT score was 4 years ago is irrelevant.

I guess you need to get the high MCAT superiority out of your system now. After day 1 of medical school, no one will care about your MCAT score. And residency directors don't take it into consideration either.

And PS, the offer still stands. Run along now.
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Stop with the empty argument. We are pre-meds and most of us have not had the chance yet. Last time i checked, neither of us are attendings; your still ONLY a med student (one step above a premed). So how about you become more HUMBLE, and guide us if your going to be the "voice of reason." You ripping on premeds is like me trolling the high school thread and trying to rip them for not taking the MCAT yet, its just silly/pathetic. You may be one step higher on the totem pole, but your still a very low spot.
 
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Bl4ckout said:
Stop with the empty argument. We are pre-meds and most of us have not had the chance yet. Last time i checked, neither of us are attendings; your still ONLY a med student (one step above a premed). So how about you become more HUMBLE, and guide us if your going to be the "voice of reason." You ripping on premeds is like me trolling the high school thread and trying to rip them for not taking the MCAT yet, its just silly/pathetic. You may be one step higher on the totem pole, but your still a very low spot.
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And this is a better argument? He's a medical student and soon to be resident, he understands the system a lot better than you. Secondly his point is completely valid, if those students are passing their steps then it really doesn't matter what their scores were before.

Oh and really he's on a low spot? He's already set. You on the other hand...
 
serenade said:
And this is a better argument? He's a medical student and soon to be resident, he understands the system a lot better than you. Secondly his point is completely valid, if those students are passing their steps then it really doesn't matter what their scores were before.

Oh and really he's on a low spot? He's already set. You on the other hand...
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This
 
serenade said:
And this is a better argument? He's a medical student and soon to be resident, he understands the system a lot better than you. Secondly his point is completely valid, if those students are passing their steps then it really doesn't matter what their scores were before.

Oh and really he's on a low spot? He's already set. You on the other hand...
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You guys act like med students have this divine knowledge that premeds lack. Last time i checked anyone can become an american doctor (and I mean anyone) by the caribbean option. This brown-nosing is unreal. I'll get into an american med school no problem, even when i'm an M1 my opinions will doubtfully change. Luckily for me, I live in a state that is flooded with med schools (7, only 1 private). You never read a sad didn't get in story about a competent ohio resident.

And to bring this forum back, yes the students got screwed. I wouldn't even know what to do with 150k debt and nothing to show.
 
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Bl4ckout said:
You guys act like med students have this divine knowledge that premeds lack. Last time i checked anyone can become an american doctor (and I mean anyone) by the caribbean option. This brown-nosing is unreal. I'll get into an american med school no problem, even when i'm an M1 my opinions will doubtfully change. Luckily for me, I live in a state that is flooded with med schools (7, only 1 private). You never read a sad didn't get in story about an ohio resident.

And to bring this forum back, yes the students got screwed. I wouldn't even know what to do with 150k debt and nothing to show.
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.... Have you considered the fact that maybe they do? Also, your argument is ****. I mean... literally, I've reviewed better arguments in English 101 papers. And good luck, I hope you do well in your SMP and get into an American medical school and all of that good stuff.
 
He's such a rebel and wise to the ways of the world.
 
Bl4ckout said:
Stop with the empty argument. We are pre-meds and most of us have not had the chance yet. Last time i checked, neither of us are attendings; your still ONLY a med student (one step above a premed). So how about you become more HUMBLE, and guide us if your going to be the "voice of reason." You ripping on premeds is like me trolling the high school thread and trying to rip them for not taking the MCAT yet, its just silly/pathetic. You may be one step higher on the totem pole, but your still a very low spot.
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I'm actually with you and those taking the position that MCAT scores correlate to an extent with intelligence, organization, and hard work, and that medical education is not the same everywhere. I just wish y'all would say it in a less haughty, aggressive, and frankly, douchey, manner. As someone with a pretty good MCAT score and at a pretty good school (though you apparently think I'm from the Caribbean?), I can tell you the classy way is to let your record, reputation, and aptitude speak for themselves. But this whole conversation is irrelevant to who is to blame for a medical school losing accreditation.

Invalidating someone's opinion on the matter because they are a pre-med and not a medical student is not the crux of my argument, but needed here. The poster I was addressing (not every pre-med, just this guy) had been asserting his superiority over every student at the school, and was blaming the students for the school's failure, simply because his MCAT was higher than the school's mean. Reread my post to see why that doesn't matter, and why his assertion of superiority is hollow. And yes, this is a perspective that I've gained from going through four years of medical school which certainly changed from my pre-med years.

On a sidenote, medicine is built on a hierarchy for a good reason. It would behoove you to begin taking the advice of those that have come before you. They just might have a more informed perspective. What would you say to a high-schooler who called your college a dead-end for medical school application, and that everyone there deserved to fail because they weren't at Harvard?

And PS, I don't believe in karma, but don't assert "I'll get into an american med school no problem." It's bad juju, and you could look awfully silly if you don't.
 
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Bl4ckout said:
You guys act like med students have this divine knowledge that premeds lack. Last time i checked anyone can become an american doctor (and I mean anyone) by the caribbean option. This brown-nosing is unreal. I'll get into an american med school no problem, even when i'm an M1 my opinions will doubtfully change. Luckily for me, I live in a state that is flooded with med schools (7, only 1 private). You never read a sad didn't get in story about a competent ohio resident.

And to bring this forum back, yes the students got screwed. I wouldn't even know what to do with 150k debt and nothing to show.
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That "divine knowledge" you speak of is called experience. Trust me, I was like you too and thought a lot of stuff med students were saying was BS when I was a premed. Now that I'm on the other side, it's incredible at how accurate they actually were and how wrong I was. We (particularly those of us who are M1s) may only be a step above you, and I agree with you about that, but we do understand what med school is really like since we're actually in med school while you're not. I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss what people with more experience than you have to say.
 
Bl4ckout said:
Stop with the empty argument. We are pre-meds and most of us have not had the chance yet. Last time i checked, neither of us are attendings; your still ONLY a med student (one step above a premed). So how about you become more HUMBLE, and guide us if your going to be the "voice of reason." You ripping on premeds is like me trolling the high school thread and trying to rip them for not taking the MCAT yet, its just silly/pathetic. You may be one step higher on the totem pole, but your still a very low spot.
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:sendoff:
 
Kaushik said:
That "divine knowledge" you speak of is called experience. Trust me, I was like you too and thought a lot of stuff med students were saying was BS when I was a premed. Now that I'm on the other side, it's incredible at how accurate they actually were and how wrong I was. We (particularly those of us who are M1s) may only be a step above you, and I agree with you about that, but we do understand what med school is really like since we're actually in med school while you're not. I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss what people with more experience than you have to say.
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Ding ding ding!!!! We have a winner!
 
Oh lawd, SDN's premeds are so much more entertaining than on the Canadian version of this site.
 
Bl4ckout said:
You guys act like med students have this divine knowledge that premeds lack. Last time i checked anyone can become an american doctor (and I mean anyone) by the caribbean option. This brown-nosing is unreal. I'll get into an american med school no problem, even when i'm an M1 my opinions will doubtfully change. Luckily for me, I live in a state that is flooded with med schools (7, only 1 private). You never read a sad didn't get in story about a competent ohio resident.

And to bring this forum back, yes the students got screwed. I wouldn't even know what to do with 150k debt and nothing to show.
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Regardless how many SDN threads you have read, you WILL have your opinion somewhat change of med school, medicine, etc. Discounting everyone's opinion is a quick way to learn nothing.
 
NurWollen said:
So, any word from SJB students on what their plans are? Have any of them found spots at other schools?

I seem to remember reading in a thread about new schools that if a new school with preliminary accreditation, after four years, failed to recieve full accreditation, that there was some kind of back up plan that spots would be found at other schools. I think that thread was about new DO schools though.
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It's all good rhetoric until students actually have to find places to go.

As I said, the 4th year students are the most out of luck. Very few schools are going to take and graduate a student for only a 6 month period.
 
Bl4ckout said:
You guys act like med students have this divine knowledge that premeds lack. Last time i checked anyone can become an american doctor (and I mean anyone) by the caribbean option. This brown-nosing is unreal. I'll get into an american med school no problem, even when i'm an M1 my opinions will doubtfully change. Luckily for me, I live in a state that is flooded with med schools (7, only 1 private). You never read a sad didn't get in story about a competent ohio resident.

And to bring this forum back, yes the students got screwed. I wouldn't even know what to do with 150k debt and nothing to show.
Click to expand...

Spoken like a true pre-med.
 
Bl4ckout said:
You guys act like med students have this divine knowledge that premeds lack. Last time i checked anyone can become an american doctor (and I mean anyone) by the caribbean option. This brown-nosing is unreal. I'll get into an american med school no problem, even when i'm an M1 my opinions will doubtfully change. Luckily for me, I live in a state that is flooded with med schools (7, only 1 private). You never read a sad didn't get in story about a competent ohio resident.

And to bring this forum back, yes the students got screwed. I wouldn't even know what to do with 150k debt and nothing to show.
Click to expand...
No, not really. They have to pass the steps, which is not a trivial event, then match into a residency, which is not guaranteed, especially from the carib.

Though the knowledge is not divine, it stems from experiences you most certainly lack. The students passed the boards. Their MCAT scores are irrelevant. Period.
 
1) I didn't read all the posts on this thread, but is it possible to find out what the specific violation is?

2) It's my understanding that the med school must have been given warnings to fix the problem before this action was taken.
 
pancakesyrup said:
I am not going to ever put them in the same category as SGU, Ross, AUC, etc, but Puerto Rico is in the Caribbean.
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Oh hai Dubaifan490, what a bold and new name you have my friend. Cheers!
 
tima said:
1) I didn't read all the posts on this thread, but is it possible to find out what the specific violation is?

2) It's my understanding that the med school must have been given warnings to fix the problem before this action was taken.
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It was in the thread. Their affiliated teaching hospital went bankrupt and they were left with inadequate clinical resources. I'm sure they were given warnings, but what the heck are they going to do about that?

In all seriousness, could happen to any med school, the only difference is most med schools aren't on a tiny island with limited hospitals and would probably be able to start a new affiliation, but even that takes time.
 
alwaysaangel said:
It was in the thread. Their affiliated teaching hospital went bankrupt and they were left with inadequate clinical resources. I'm sure they were given warnings, but what the heck are they going to do about that?

In all seriousness, could happen to any med school, the only difference is most med schools aren't on a tiny island with limited hospitals and would probably be able to start a new affiliation, but even that takes time.
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Again, the administration should have told the students as soon as they got the first warning. This way, the then soon-to-be 4th years (and the 1st and 2nd years, for that matter) could have had adequate time to find out about - and lay the groundwork for - transfer options. It is simply inexcusable for the administration to hide severe problems from its students.
 
b-real said:
Again, the administration should have told the students as soon as they got the first warning. This way, the then soon-to-be 4th years (and the 1st and 2nd years, for that matter) could have had adequate time to find out about - and lay the groundwork for - transfer options. It is simply inexcusable for the administration to hide severe problems from its students.
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Well yes, I don't think anyone would disagree that there should have been more communication with the students. My point is that fixing the actual infringement wasn't exactly something easy.
 
flatearth22 said:
Loss of accreditation for Puerto Rican Med Schools = More Puerto Rican (read URM Hispanic) applicants and matriculates at mainland schools = less spots for non Puerto Ricans.

Oh lawd...
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facepalm4cr.jpg
 
I didn't see anyone post this--
SJB filed a lawsuit on Oct 12 against the LCME, AMA, and AAMC
http://dockets.justia.com/docket/puerto-rico/prdce/3:2011cv02014/90328/

News article from a few days before the school sued:

http://newsismybusiness.com/?p=5016

Some interesting parts:
Seeking an injunction would buy the school more time and allow it to retain accreditation until the court rules on the matter, according to information made available by a source. Another option is to ask the accrediting authority, known as the Liaison Committee on Medical Education, to extend the accreditation at least until the end of the year so as not to affect the current graduating class.
...
Meanwhile, at least one Caribbean medical institution appeared ready to muscle in and gain advantage of the situation, if comments posted on an online student doctor network are to be taken at face value. One posting by a person identifying himself as
“Charles, assistant vice president of Xavier University School of Medicine (in Aruba),” invited anyone who knew students from San Juan Bautista to refer them to his university.
He wrote: “We offer $500 for every student that you refer, if they enroll with us. You can visit our website at www.xusom.com or call our admission department toll free.”
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It appears that the posts from Charles were deleted but you can read the quoted version here http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=11651879&postcount=17
 
sector9 said:
I didn't see anyone post this--
SJB filed a lawsuit on Oct 12 against the LCME, AMA, and AAMC
http://dockets.justia.com/docket/puerto-rico/prdce/3:2011cv02014/90328/

News article from a few days before the school sued:

http://newsismybusiness.com/?p=5016

Some interesting parts:

It appears that the posts from Charles were deleted but you can read the quoted version here http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=11651879&postcount=17
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When you can't do, sue...

That'll fix everything.
 
Update on Accreditation Actions

The United States District Court for the District of Puerto Rico has
ordered the LCME to respond, on or before October 20, 2011, to the action
filed by the San Juan Bautista School of Medicine, seeking injunctive
relief to preserve the School’s MD degree program accreditation. After
studying the LCME’s response the Federal Judge will decide if it is
necessary to hold a hearing.

The Federal Judge has also invited and is strongly urging the following
entities to appear as _amicus curiae_ (friends of the court) in this case
due to the impact of this case on medical education:

1. The USDepartment of Education

2. The Middle States Commission on Higher Education

3. The Federation of State Medical Boards

4. The Puerto Rico Board of Medical Licensure and Discipline

5. The Council of Higher Education of Puerto Rico

6. The Puerto Rico Department of Justice

7. The Puerto Rico Department of Health Yocasta Brugal, MD

President/Dean
 
Does it make me a bad person if I hope the lawsuit works in favor of SJB? If anything, it helps the fourth year medical students who need this the most IMO. :\
 
Gigantron said:
Does it make me a bad person if I hope the lawsuit works in favor of SJB? If anything, it helps the fourth year medical students who need this the most IMO. :\
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Will I be a bad doctor if I had to google "Subpoena"?
 
link2swim06 said:
Regardless of the outcome, you really dont think both LCME and administration didnt break any laws?
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What laws were broken by the LCME? Or SJB, for that matter?
 
i'm no lawyer but i'd imagine a school has some fiduciary responsibility to let students know its accreditation is in jeopardy
 
b-real said:
What laws were broken by the LCME? Or SJB, for that matter?
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Its seems like a pretty big lawsuit to me to sell a product you know will not be delivered (i.e. education) and not refund students for their time, tuition, lost of potential income, etc...

SJB knew there was a HUGE chance of screwing these students over. It become fraudulent when you intentionally defraud someone, if they would have given proper notice it would be different.

Not sure if the LCME broke anything legal, but surely it quite unprofessional to not involve students in notification process of probation stages.
 
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