Save for Post-bacc or MCAT Preparation Course?

[Rosewood1225]

Hi, everyone. I am a full-time RN that has a Bachelor's in Biology and a Master's in Nursing. I am NOT a nurse practitioner. I am a staff nurse. I've taken the MCAT a total of 3 times, the most recent was last summer. All of the scores have been below 24. I feel that I would benefit from a MCAT preparation course; however, I like the idea of matriculating into a post-bacc program that offers medical school acceptance conditional on success in the program. I also feel like taking the science courses again would benefit my MCAT score. However, I do not like the idea of having to take out loans to pay for the post-bacc program, and then potentially have to take out more loans for medical school. My question is if I should save money for a MCAT preparation course or save money to go toward a post-bacc program? Obviously, it would take a lot longer to save for the latter choice. My concern is not about time, rather about which pathway is the wiser to take. Thank you in advance for your time and help.

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[hopefuldoc97239]

i think people need more info to give you helpful advice.

what strategies did you use after the first MCAT? what did you do after the second MCAT?
what was your score breakdown?
did you do well with the core courses and then bomb the MCAT? or did you bomb the courses too?

answering these questions will help clarify what advice to give you.

i have to tell you though, that <24 on MCAT three times is a bad sign that you will do much better. even if you gain a few points, how high do you realistically think you can get on the next take? 25? 26? most people don't gain very many points upon re-taking the MCAT, there's hard data on that.

why do you want this so bad? why not become a Nurse Practitioner instead? you're already so close. take the GRE which tests more general skills and less chemistry/physics etc., have very similar job, still make great money, what's the argument about that?

 

[mavric1298]

I would ask the same thing. What's different now then the last 3 times you've taken the mcat. Like hopefuldoc said, generally scores don't change much unless something drastically different is done, I believe the average delta is around 2, which won't be enough to get you in with a 4th mcat. You'll really need to improve that score to offset the number of times taking it. I would also ask more about your academic history to give an accurate answer. Post baccs can be very competitive in themselves. Are you thinking DO?

 

[Rosewood1225]

Thank you, hopefuldoc97239 and mavric1298, for taking the time to respond. The first time that I took the MCAT, I was a sophomore in college that had neither taken Organic Chemistry nor Physics at the time. I was ill-advised by my academic adviser that I "needed" to take the MCAT at that specific point in time. I took a preparation course, but as I am sure you both know, its purpose is review, not to provide a foundation in the core classes. The second time that I took the MCAT, I had taken all of the pre-requisites (did well), took a different preparation course, and improved the score by 6 points. The most recent/third time that I took the MCAT, I had been ill that week and had gotten sick during the test, but didn't want to quit. I regret not voiding it.

In answer to your question, hopefuldoc97239, about why not be a NP--the answer is that I simply want to be a doctor. I do not want a "similar" job to a physician. I want to be a physician. I can get into the details and background about why I want to become a doctor, but the simple answer is that I feel that it's necessary for me to do it. It's something inherent that I can't ignore. The NP path may be great for other people and it may align with their interests. I know that I will regret not doing everything in my power to achieve this dream of being a doctor. I'm not going to resign just yet.

Mavric1298, I am open to the DO option.

Based on the information that you both have given me, I think it would be best for me to pursue the post-bacc option. While it's not ideal, I'll do it if I have to. Again, thank you both for your time and help. I appreciate it.

 

[mavric1298]

I think you might need to do some more research...and someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but don't post bac linkage programs only guarantee and interview, not admissions? And I believe the few that do offer direct acceptance all have a required MCAT score. I think many moons ago I saw for example the linkage to pittsburg required a 33 MCAT for direct matriculation

 

[Rosewood1225]

Mavric1298, you are correct in that most post-bacc "linkage" programs do guarantee an interview based on MCAT score and sGPA while in the post-bacc program (acceptance not guaranteed). I have only found a couple of schools that specifically stated that they offer direct admission upon successful completion of the post-bacc courses (indicated by a minimum sGPA and MCAT score). They term this offer as "conditional acceptance."

Thanks again for your help.

 

[otty]

Mavric1298, you are correct in that most post-bacc "linkage" programs do guarantee an interview based on MCAT score and sGPA while in the post-bacc program (acceptance not guaranteed). I have only found a couple of schools that specifically stated that they offer direct admission upon successful completion of the post-bacc courses (indicated by a minimum sGPA and MCAT score). They term this offer as "conditional acceptance."

Thanks again for your help.

would you mind sharing some of these school?

 

[packersfans]

I am blown away that someone recommended you take the MCAT despite not taking 2 of the 4 courses it covers.

 

[Joeistoocool]

Temple University, here in Philadelphia has two different post-bacc options, looking into going there next year, while for now I'm taking organic chemistry and more undergraduate courses at the same school.

 

[Joeistoocool]

Drexel's program looks like a really good one too, I'm just wondering how they will view the fact that I left PA school there to try and get into medical school.

 

[GrapesofRath]

Without knowing your GPA this discussion is largely moot. While you do need to seriously re-evaluate how you study and learn MCAT material which a course can help with there's also the idea that the MCAT isnt the DAT or a typical exam that is memorization based where just learning the material is enough. As we know the MCAT is far more than that. There are those who do well in school and can learn material but who just don't have it in them to answer questions the way the MCAT does and to be able to synthesize information the MCAT requires. That's what makes it the MCAT: some no matter how much they study just aren't built to succeed in it. It's not a test you just learn and study and study and eventually through hardwork assure yourself a high score by knowing the material. The odds are honestly against someone statistically and based on history of seeing a significant uptake in MCAT scores on retakes in general, and especially for someone who has already had 3 stabs at it.

With 3 sub 24 MCAT scores you are honestly looking at DO's primarily. If you really are doing well in your pre-reqs as you say then your GPA should be fine for DO's and a post-bacc won't really change much. Like I said though to make any informed decision we have to know your actual GPA.

 

[tdubst]

Low GPA -> post bacc
Competitive GPA -> MCAT Prep
Btw, many post baccs include MCAT prep should they require you to take it again.

 

[j4pac]

OP...You are likely in the DO will-house. You are HIGHLY unlikely to become an MD unless you are Hispanic or Black.

So with that in mind...Post-Bacc is completely worthless for you. Grade REPLACEMENT is where it's at if you are in need of repairing your GPA. If you just need to improve your MCAT...do the MCAT prep course. If you are at 23 right now....I think that you can bump it up to 25-26 and have a fighting chance for DO. You are looking for the bang for the buck...and Post-Bacc for pre-osteos is a fail 99.9% of the time.

 

[tdubst]

True, but is a tens of thousand dollars for a postbacc worth the money if you just need $1500-$2500 for MCAT prep class?

Of course not...hence, I suggested taking the postbacc only if you have low (noncompetitive, <3.0) gpa. Between 3.0-3.5, the OP will have to determine where they are falling short with respect to the MCAT. If it is due to fundamental knowledge, MCAT prep alone will not help. MCAT prep is not meant to teach you material, but rather teach the student HOW to take the exam and will review high yield topics.
To be clear, if OP has decided that their GPA is competitive, but feel that they do not know how to approach the MCAT methodically, then the MCAT prep will be enough.
Furthermore, if their GPA is competitive AND they know how to approach the MCAT, an intensive self-review is sufficient. The latter option will save money.

Btw, I only mentioned that several postbaccs (NOT DIY) include MCAT prep in their curriculum as a heads up, rather than a pro for doing a postbacc.

 

[tdubst]

@gonnif no worries. In hindsight, I did wonder if my earlier rudimentary may be to simplistic. And yes you are right, this time of year can have a "full moon affect" on pre meds. I hope I have provided a clearer explanation in order for the OP to make a more informed decision.

 

[jl lin]

OP...You are likely in the DO will-house. You are HIGHLY unlikely to become an MD unless you are Hispanic or Black.

So with that in mind...Post-Bacc is completely worthless for you. Grade REPLACEMENT is where it's at if you are in need of repairing your GPA. If you just need to improve your MCAT...do the MCAT prep course. If you are at 23 right now....I think that you can bump it up to 25-26 and have a fighting chance for DO. You are looking for the bang for the buck...and Post-Bacc for pre-osteos is a fail 99.9% of the time.

Hi, sorry. Maybe I missed the GPA details in another thread--or even this one--but I did not seem them in a cursory scroll through. So, if her GPA is high enough, why the assumption that the poster would go only the way of DO application? Why "Highly unlikely...MD?"
I mean if that is true, you make a great point. OTOH, if it isn't, OP could apply ultimately to both after completion of PB. Also, wouldn't it depend upon how much he/she wants to or can spend? Just asking, cuz it seems I must have missed something.

 

[j4pac]

Hi, sorry. Maybe I missed the GPA details in another thread--or even this one--but I did not seem them in a cursory scroll through. So, if her GPA is high enough, why the assumption that the poster would go only the way of DO application? Why "Highly unlikely...MD?"
I mean if that is true, you make a great point. OTOH, if it isn't, OP could apply ultimately to both after completion of PB. Also, wouldn't it depend upon how much he/she wants to or can spend? Just asking, cuz it seems I must have missed something.

If I was in his/her shoes I would plan based on probabilities more than possibilities. Sure...the OP could theoretically get a 45 equivalent on his/her next MCAT and be off to Duke...but realistically I think that the OP is more likely to improve his/her score by 2-5 points on a third retake than a 8-20 point increase. At some point there will be a saturation...and I think that the OP is reaching that point. No shame...I sucked at the MCAT, went DO, did well in med school, rocked the boards, and landed a great residency.

 

[jl lin]

If I was in his/her shoes I would plan based on probabilities more than possibilities. Sure...the OP could theoretically get a 45 equivalent on his/her next MCAT and be off to Duke...but realistically I think that the OP is more likely to improve his/her score by 2-5 points on a third retake than a 8-20 point increase. At some point there will be a saturation...and I think that the OP is reaching that point. No shame...I sucked at the MCAT, went DO, did well in med school, rocked the boards, and landed a great residency.

Well OP is talking about taking a PB, which, in my understanding, is different than an SMP or say ACMS at Temple. So if the former is true, taking the MCAT without the most important pre-reqs makes no sense to me. If one doesn't have them or most of them, which is really the reason for career-changer Post-Bacc programs, an acceptable SAT or GRE would suffice, if one's GPA is > 3.0. I suppose once in a while people can take the MCAT w/o having the core pre-reqs and get a decent score; but it seems quiet risky/silly to me--especially given the fact that many that have taken the pre-reqs still have a bear of a time with the MCAT.

 

[j4pac]

@jl lin . Unfortunately, the OP isn't giving his/her stats...so it really is difficult to give good advice on the topic. What we do know is that that he/she has three <24 MCAT scores. He/she has stated that she has since completed all of her pre-reqs and did well.

I'm willing to bet that her GPA is not be the show stopper here...it is the MCAT. The OP has to improve on the MCAT to have a chance of matriculating. In my opinion...the easiest and cheapest way of doing that is by buckling down, doing an MCAT prep course, and improve her MCAT by 2-3 points. It's very doable...and then he/she has stamped her ticket to DO school if she applies early and broadly enough. If her GPA is below 3.5...he or she can do grade forgiveness for a semester and in all likelihood bump her GPA up incredibly quicker.

I completely understand someone doing a post-bach if they are 100% sold on MD, have the MCAT, and don't have the GPA. But based on the information that the OP has given us...that's not the case. He/she will likely find a niche as a DO...and again...there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

 

[jl lin]

@jl lin . Unfortunately, the OP isn't giving his/her stats...so it really is difficult to give good advice on the topic. What we do know is that that he/she has three <24 MCAT scores. He/she has stated that she has since completed all of her pre-reqs and did well.

I'm willing to bet that her GPA is not be the show stopper here...it is the MCAT. The OP has to improve on the MCAT to have a chance of matriculating. In my opinion...the easiest and cheapest way of doing that is by buckling down, doing an MCAT prep course, and improve her MCAT by 2-3 points. It's very doable...and then he/she has stamped her ticket to DO school if she applies early and broadly enough. If her GPA is below 3.5...he or she can do grade forgiveness for a semester and in all likelihood bump her GPA up incredibly quicker.

I completely understand someone doing a post-bach if they are 100% sold on MD, have the MCAT, and don't have the GPA. But based on the information that the OP has given us...that's not the case. He/she will likely find a niche as a DO...and again...there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

YUP. See it weaved in through posts. It's nice if people give their core info early on--took the first one early on d/t dubious academic advisement, but still didn't bring scores up. You are totally on the mark. Doing "well" is relative depending upon the type of grad school into which one wants to apply. So, 3.0 for psych or nursing masters may be OK; but for medical school, totally on the low side. MCAT 24--hmmm. Seems like s/he might benefit from SMP, or just major studying and MCAT review and then apply to DO. 24/3 average = 24. 24 looks low for DO school too.

Depending upon her c&sc GPAs and with that MCAT, I don't even know that she would be able to get into any of those around Philly including Drexel. I don't think the OP would be competitive for the Evening PostBac--career changer program, b/c he/she has taken most of the pre-reqs. The Drexel Pathway to MS program may be a possibility. We are looking for a minimum of 20 on the most recent MCAT (no section less than 6) and a 2.9 or better science/cumulative GPA. - See more at: http://www.drexelmed.edu/Home/Acade...alSchool/HowtoApply.aspx#sthash.dB0jmnUj.dpuf
Having talked to people that went through this program and those from some of the other Drexel pre-med programs, you really have to be a strong self-learner.

Totally right though J4pac, w/o seeing GPA, etc, can't really weigh-in well. I mean, in my mind if s/he is @at least a 3.2-3.5 sGPA, perhaps a strong MCAT Prep class and lots of hard work over time would help. OTOH, if her sGPA is below that s/he may do better to bite the bullet and go for the SMP. And now, s/he will have to take the new MCAT, w/ more biochem as well as the other additions. And then they will have to convert the new scoring and average all the older MCAT scores as well. I don't know. Do they average the MCAT scores for DO schools like they do for allopathic?


Bottom line @Rosewood1225 , what does your sGPA look like? Ideal is to be at least 3.5 & >. If that is the case, then just get a great MCAT prep class and bust major hump prepping for the new MCAT. If your sGPA is below that, consider applying to a pre-med enhancement program, unless you will apply primarily to DO schools. If you do the enhancer program, kick butt--the program may or may not include an MCAT prep with it--so you have to check that out. But if you are sagging in the science part--that is, from a medical school perspective--not another kind of grad school perspective, bite the bullet and get into an enhancer program and then worry about MCAT. Gotta do what ya gotta do.
Good luck!

 

[j4pac]

Totally right though J4pac, w/o seeing GPA, etc, can't really weigh-in well. I mean, in my mind if s/he is @at least a 3.2-3.5 sGPA, perhaps a strong MCAT Prep class and lots of hard work over time would help. OTOH, if her sGPA is below that s/he may do better to bite the bullet and go for the SMP. And now, s/he will have to take the new MCAT, w/ more biochem as well as the other additions. And then they will have to convert the new scoring and average all the older MCAT scores as well. I don't know. Do they average the MCAT scores for DO schools like they do for allopathic?

Some take the highest score, and some average. Some will consider the MCAT trend. A drop in MCAT on a re-take is a coup-de-grace.

Goro has a good feel for which programs average and which ones just take the high score. But at this point we are kind of just running in circles because we don't have the OPs GPA and/or MCAT.