School list Feedback 3.6/516 URM!!

[deleted1175692]

.

School List:

1. SUNY Downstate
2. Loyola
3. Rosalind Franklin
4. George Washington
5. Tufts
6. Einstein
7. Drexel
8. NYMC
9. Georgetown
10. Dartmouth
11. University of Vermont
12. UMass
13. Geisinger
14. Rochester
15. Rush
16. Boston University
17. Rutgers
18. Hackensack
19. Meharry
20. Morehouse
21. Howard

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[Faha]

I suggest these schools with your stats:
Your 3 New Jersey state public schools
Hackensack
Vermont
Boston University
Tufts
Dartmouth
Brown
Harvard
Yale
UMass
Einstein
Mount Sinai
NYU
Columbia
Cornell
Rochester
SUNY Downstate
NYMC
Pittsburgh
Georgetown
Miami
Emory
Vanderbilt
Washington University (in St. Louis)
Northwestern
U Chicago
Case Western

 

[atriablack]

4. Shadowing:25 hours

Getting your shadowing hours unto at least 50 is definitely something you can work on.
Agree with above in that you can add some more high reach schools.

 

[deleted1175692]

I suggest these schools with your stats:
Your 3 New Jersey state public schools
Hackensack
Vermont
Boston University
Tufts
Dartmouth
Brown
Harvard
Yale
UMass
Einstein
Mount Sinai
NYU
Columbia
Cornell
Rochester
SUNY Downstate
NYMC
Pittsburgh
Georgetown
Miami
Emory
Vanderbilt
Washington University (in St. Louis)
Northwestern
U Chicago
Case Western

Thanks! I will apply to some reaches, but I’m broke so I don’t wanna waste a cycle by only shooting for T20s. I’m grateful to go anywhere at this point. But applying to some Ivies wouldn’t be crazy….my gpa and MCAT are bellow 10th percentile

 

[deleted1175692]

Getting your shadowing hours unto at least 50 is definitely something you can work on.
Agree with above in that you can add some more high reach schools.

I will def do some shadowing over winter break. I have some virtual hours(25hrs) but there’s nothing wrong with getting more

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Did you apply for FAP but did not get approved?

You definitely need the shadowing to raise your chances.

Are you part of any mentoring network like SNMA?

 

[deleted1175692]

Did you apply for FAP but did not get approved?

You definitely need the shadowing to raise your chances.

Are you part of any mentoring network like SNMA?

I have FAP and no I’m not apart of any national networks(afraid of getting scammed). I’m apart of my university’s chapters for minorities in stem and healthcare

 

[LunaOri]

You could add Emory to your list, if you like Atlanta.

 

[Faha]

Thanks! I will apply to some reaches, but I’m broke so I don’t wanna waste a cycle by only shooting for T20s. I’m grateful to go anywhere at this point. But applying to some Ivies wouldn’t be crazy….my gpa and MCAT are bellow 10th percentile

There are only ~150 African American applicants that apply each year with a MCAT of 513 or higher AND a GPA of 3.5 or higher. That is one per MD school. So if top 20 schools want more than one African American student in their class they need to interview you.

 

[deleted1175692]

You could add Emory to your list, if you like Atlanta.

I would like to stay in the NE and be close to family and friends

 

[Holland]

There are only ~150 African American applicants that apply each year with a MCAT of 513 or higher AND a GPA of 3.5 or higher. That is one per MD school. So if top 20 schools want more than one African American student in their class they need to interview you.

Do you think there have been any substantial changes to this stat in recent years? The grid this came from was close to a decade old, no?

 

[Faha]

Do you think there have been any substantial changes to this stat in recent years? The grid this came from was close to a decade old, no?

No new data but there are 3,000 more 1st year MD positions available so the odds are better for 2024.

 

[LeaveNoTrace]

There are only ~150 African American applicants that apply each year with a MCAT of 513 or higher AND a GPA of 3.5 or higher. That is one per MD school. So if top 20 schools want more than one African American student in their class they need to interview you.

As a Black man myself who applied to medical school with a flat 3.6 and a 519 in 2018, I would not be so sanguine about the OP's chances. I'd say that the boost they got from being an URM makes them pack fodder at top 20 schools, not a strong candidate that the likes of Harvard and Hopkins will be salivating over. Then there's the FAP and disadvantage, which helps her a bit more. Now she's towards the top end of pack fodder, but not quite top ten percent for these stratospheric schools. I'd say that the OP is in roughly the same position as a middle-class ORM applicant with a 3.9 and 522, as a rough guide.

OP's list can be maybe half top 20s, including Vanderbilt, Columbia, and Dartmouth - schools that @Goro has said reward reinvention.

 

[deleted1175692]

As a Black man myself who applied to medical school with a flat 3.6 and a 519 in 2018, I would not be so sanguine about the OP's chances. I'd say that the boost they got from being an URM makes them pack fodder at top 20 schools, not a strong candidate that the likes of Harvard and Hopkins will be salivating over. Then there's the FAP and disadvantage, which helps her a bit more. Now she's towards the top end of pack fodder, but not quite top ten percent for these stratospheric schools. I'd say that the OP is in roughly the same position as a middle-class ORM applicant with a 3.9 and 522, as a rough guide.

OP's list can be maybe half top 20s, including Vanderbilt, Columbia, and Dartmouth - schools that @Goro has said reward reinvention.

Thank you for your input! This is my finalish school list I will split it between T20s and T50s. Should I apply DO as well?
1. Uchicago
2. Columbia
3. Northwestern
4. Case Western
5. Mount Sinai
6. Harvard(just shooting my shot)
7. Brown
8. SUNY Downstate
9. Loyola
10. Einstein
11. Rosaling Franklin
12. George Washinton
13. Tufts
14. Boston U
15. Drexel
16. Rochester
17. U Vermont
18. NYMC
19. UMass
20. Jefferson
21. Dartmouth
22. Hackensack
23. Howard
24. Meharry/Morehouse
25. Rutgers
26. Georgetown
27. Gesinger
28. Jefferson

 

[deleted1175692]

As a Black man myself who applied to medical school with a flat 3.6 and a 519 in 2018, I would not be so sanguine about the OP's chances. I'd say that the boost they got from being an URM makes them pack fodder at top 20 schools, not a strong candidate that the likes of Harvard and Hopkins will be salivating over. Then there's the FAP and disadvantage, which helps her a bit more. Now she's towards the top end of pack fodder, but not quite top ten percent for these stratospheric schools. I'd say that the OP is in roughly the same position as a middle-class ORM applicant with a 3.9 and 522, as a rough guide.

OP's list can be maybe half top 20s, including Vanderbilt, Columbia, and Dartmouth - schools that @Goro has said reward reinvention.

What are the schools that reward reinvention?

 

[BenzeneToluene]

Thank you for your input! This is my finalish school list I will split it between T20s and T50s. Should I apply DO as well?
1. Uchicago
2. Columbia
3. Northwestern
4. Case Western
5. Mount Sinai
6. Harvard(just shooting my shot)
7. Brown
8. SUNY Downstate
9. Loyola
10. Einstein
11. Rosaling Franklin
12. George Washinton
13. Tufts
14. Boston U
15. Drexel
16. Rochester
17. U Vermont
18. NYMC
19. UMass
20. Jefferson
21. Dartmouth
22. Hackensack
23. Howard
24. Meharry/Morehouse
25. Rutgers
26. Georgetown
27. Gesinger
28. Jefferson

I'm not an expert by any means, but I'm a current AA applicant and I think you'll get a lot of success with your profile and this school list. I applied more top-heavy with a weaker profile and am doing just fine so far this cycle. I think you'll be good to go if you write well and turn in everything early. Good luck!

 

[deleted1175692]

I'm not an expert by any means, but I'm a current AA applicant and I think you'll get a lot of success with your profile and this school list. I applied more top-heavy with a weaker profile and am doing just fine so far this cycle. I think you'll be good to go if you write well and turn in everything early. Good luck!

Thank you and good luck to u as well!!

 

[LunaOri]

What are the schools that reward reinvention?

You can get a rough idea by looking at the average age of the students on MSAR. Schools that have a high percentage of older students, as well as those that are service-oriented, are often those that look favorably on reinvention.

 

[xNinjaBurrito1]

There are only ~150 African American applicants that apply each year with a MCAT of 513 or higher AND a GPA of 3.5 or higher. That is one per MD school. So if top 20 schools want more than one African American student in their class they need to interview you.

What are your thoughts on how this applies to mixed race (75% URM, 25% ORM, in my case) applicants?

 

[Faha]

What are your thoughts on how this applies to mixed race (75% URM, 25% ORM, in my case) applicants?

If you have connections to the AA community and that is your identity then it will not matter.

 

[candbgirl]

Not to change the subject but are your only shadowing hours virtual? If so you need at least 50 in person shadowing hours including some with a primary care doc.
Good luck.

 

[deleted1175692]

Not to change the subject but are your only shadowing hours virtual? If so you need at least 50 in person shadowing hours including some with a primary care doc.
Good luck.

They are in person but I have 20 virtual hours that can cushion my 25 in person hours. I will get more in person shadowing before May

 

[LeaveNoTrace]

Thank you for your input! This is my finalish school list I will split it between T20s and T50s. Should I apply DO as well?
1. Uchicago
2. Columbia
3. Northwestern
4. Case Western
5. Mount Sinai
6. Harvard(just shooting my shot)
7. Brown
8. SUNY Downstate
9. Loyola
10. Einstein
11. Rosaling Franklin
12. George Washinton
13. Tufts
14. Boston U
15. Drexel
16. Rochester
17. U Vermont
18. NYMC
19. UMass
20. Jefferson
21. Dartmouth
22. Hackensack
23. Howard
24. Meharry/Morehouse
25. Rutgers
26. Georgetown
27. Gesinger
28. Jefferson

Cut maybe three or four midtiers and swap 'em out for top 20s. Maybe switch another few with HBCUs. Good luck; you don't need DO schools.

EDIT: Missed the upward trend. That's always good news. Ballpark: you're roughly as strong as an ORM applicant with good to great but not jaw-dropping ECs, a 3.8 or 3.9, and a 522 MCAT. That puts you at pack fodder tier for top 20 schools. It's a good place to be; you're strong everywhere else and your chances are excellent. Applicants who are pack fodder for top 20 schools usually get in somewhere and sometimes they get into those top schools - it's a crapshoot, and there's a decent chance an individual will get lucky. Most of Harvard Med's class is pack fodder, not former Navy SEALs and Olympic medalists.

 

[HappyRabbit]

I think with the extra 25 shadowing hours, your application is in excellent shape and you should shoot higher. I would be surprised if one of the reach schools doesn't bite and give you an offer; you always have many target/baseline schools to fall back on as an insurance policy.

Reach
Harvard
Hopkins
UPenn
Columbia
Duke
Stanford
UCSF
Vanderbilt
WashU
Cornell
NYU
Yale
Mayo
UChicago

Target
Northwestern
Pitt
Icahn
Case Western

Baseline
All 3 NJ Schools (Rowan and both Rutgers)
Hackensack
Rochester
Einstein
Vermont
Georgetown
Dartmouth
BU
Emory
Tufts
Brown
George Washington
HBCU's (if you want but not necessary)

 

[LeaveNoTrace]

I wouldn't include BU or Brown in that list of "baseline" schools; Brown's an Ivy. I'd swap those out for a couple midtiers and add a couple of the HBCUs...@HappyRabbit, I think your list is a little top heavy, but just a little.

What would you advise for an ORM with a 3.8 and 520, but the same ECs and life story? I've always said - the OP is pack fodder at top 20s, not someone they'll be salivating over. Yes, most of a class is composed of pack fodder, being pack fodder means you are middling competitive for a school and an interview or admission is a crapshoot. If the OP had a 3.9 and 522 MCAT, sure, the sky would be the limit and they'd be a platinum-grade rock star.

 

[HappyRabbit]

I wouldn't include BU or Brown in that list of "baseline" schools; Brown's an Ivy. I'd swap those out for a couple midtiers and add a couple of the HBCUs...@HappyRabbit, I think your list is a little top heavy, but just a little.

What would you advise for an ORM with a 3.8 and 520, but the same ECs and life story? I've always said - the OP is pack fodder at top 20s, not someone they'll be salivating over. Yes, most of a class is composed of pack fodder, being pack fodder means you are middling competitive for a school and an interview or admission is a crapshoot. If the OP had a 3.9 and 522 MCAT, sure, the sky would be the limit and they'd be a platinum-grade rock star.

This applicant is significantly stronger than a 520/3.8 ORM and is not just pack fodder for T20s - she is one of only a handful (less than 50) with similar or higher stats that must be shared among 150 schools.

 

[LeaveNoTrace]

This applicant is significantly stronger than a 520/3.8 ORM and is not just pack fodder for T20s - she is one of only a handful (less than 50) with similar or higher stats that must be shared among 150 schools.

For what it is worth - I applied in 2018 as a Black man with a 3.6 and 519. I didn't have top-20 schools beating down my door to offer me interview invites...I felt like I was pack fodder at those schools, not a stellar applicant. Maybe I am the exception - but if you look at the LizzyM calculator, URM status gives you maybe 7 LM points. I've also talked to a friend whose wife has extensive experience in undergraduate admissions, and he's said essentially the same sort of thing I've said: I was pack fodder at those top-20 schools, being Black let them forgive my subpar (by their standards) GPA but didn't make me an unobtainium-grade rock star.

 

[HappyRabbit]

For what it is worth - I applied in 2018 as a Black man with a 3.6 and 519. I didn't have top-20 schools beating down my door to offer me interview invites...I felt like I was pack fodder at those schools, not a stellar applicant. Maybe I am the exception - but if you look at the LizzyM calculator, URM status gives you maybe 7 LM points. I've also talked to a friend whose wife has extensive experience in undergraduate admissions, and he's said essentially the same sort of thing I've said: I was pack fodder at those top-20 schools, being Black let them forgive my subpar (by their standards) GPA but didn't make me an unobtainium-grade rock star.

Undergrad admissions are completely different from medical school admissions. As far as your particular case, without a WAMC it's difficult to really make any conclusions about what happened.

LizzyM doesn't incorporate URM status in the calculator and WARS doesn't do a great job at quantifying it either (along with the other metrics it calculates). WARS treats each metric as individual bins that can replace each other; for example, X research activity can replace Y stats in WARS. This is simply not an accurate way of scoring an application from an applicant's perspective when building a school list because the weights used by each school are highly specific. It is possible from an admissions perspective to use a WARS methodology to rank applicants and assign points to each section because of screening and placing applicants into different bins (different stat ranges, races, SES backgrounds) so that each applicant is competing against applicants from a similar background and these factors are controlled for.

I've been working on an improvement to these calculators that also suggests a school list for applicants which I'm in the process of testing now. Even if we run with the assumption that the school list I suggested is too top-heavy, the applicant still has fantastic odds at each T20 and should take every shot available to get into one of the schools because of that opportunity. Worst case there are plenty of targets and baseline schools that will give her an offer; I simply believe in her unique situation she should maximize her probability of getting into the best school possible. The returns on a $100 investment with the application fee is likely to net multi 6 figures in scholarships from at least one school.

 

[deleted1175692]

I wouldn't include BU or Brown in that list of "baseline" schools; Brown's an Ivy. I'd swap those out for a couple midtiers and add a couple of the HBCUs...@HappyRabbit, I think your list is a little top heavy, but just a little.

What would you advise for an ORM with a 3.8 and 520, but the same ECs and life story? I've always said - the OP is pack fodder at top 20s, not someone they'll be salivating over. Yes, most of a class is composed of pack fodder, being pack fodder means you are middling competitive for a school and an interview or admission is a crapshoot. If the OP had a 3.9 and 522 MCAT, sure, the sky would be the limit and they'd be a platinum-grade rock star.

I agree. I hope my EC show my passion for working with underserved and my diverse background would make me stand out from “pack fodders” ORM, but my stats are above average for when compared AA matriculants. I think it would be in my best interest to apply to more holistic T20s and mid tier schools.

From what I have heard when looking at MSAR URM students had the best outcomes at schools were their gpa and MCAT was above the 10th percentile. I think those will be my “target” schools. Schools where I’m in the 10th percentile will be reaches. Is this a good approach?

 

[HappyRabbit]

I agree. I hope my EC show my passion for working with underserved and my diverse background would make me stand out from “pack fodders” ORM, but my stats are above average for when compared AA matriculants. I think it would be in my best interest to apply to more holistic T20s and mid tier schools.

From what I have heard when looking at MSAR URM students had the best outcomes at schools were their gpa and MCAT was above the 10th percentile. I think those will be my “target” schools. Schools where I’m in the 10th percentile will be reaches. Is this a good approach?

You are competitive for all of the schools I mentioned in the list which is essentially all T30's with some baseline schools and your state schools and removing IS heavy schools. There is a high probability you end up at a T10 barring any red flags on your application and the list I provided will maximize your chances at these top schools while giving you an insurance policy should you not.

 

[MrPuff]

Eh, I would be careful about telling anyone they have a "high probability" of ending up at a top 10 med school. Just my $0.02.

 

[Holland]

Eh, I would be careful about telling anyone they have a "high probability" of ending up at a top 10 med school. Just my $0.02.

If you combine all of the schools HappyRabbit has in the "reach" category (which is 14 rather than 10, but I think every school there could reasonably be part of an "expanded T10"), there were 222 Black matriculants in 2022 according to MSAR. If the GPA and MCAT combination stats that Faha quoted are still somewhat accurate today, then I'd say there are definitely URM applicants who—assuming everything else about their application is strong—have a very compelling case because there's a finite number of people in the target stat range.

 

[MrPuff]

If you combine all of the schools HappyRabbit has in the "reach" category (which is 14 rather than 10, but I think every school there could reasonably be part of an "expanded T10"), there were 222 Black matriculants in 2022 according to MSAR. If the GPA and MCAT combination stats that Faha quoted are still somewhat accurate today, then I'd say there are definitely URM applicants who—assuming everything else about their application is strong—have a very compelling case because there's a finite number of people in the target stat range.

I stand by my comment.

 

[pablo213]

I agree. I hope my EC show my passion for working with underserved and my diverse background would make me stand out from “pack fodders” ORM, but my stats are above average for when compared AA matriculants. I think it would be in my best interest to apply to more holistic T20s and mid tier schools.

From what I have heard when looking at MSAR URM students had the best outcomes at schools were their gpa and MCAT was above the 10th percentile. I think those will be my “target” schools. Schools where I’m in the 10th percentile will be reaches. Is this a good approach?

definitely go for schools where your stats are above or minimum at the 10th percentile. N=1 but I mistakenly applied to more than a few schools where I was below 10th percentile MCAT (by 1-4 points max; usually 1) and have not heard back from any of them (be weary of stat loving schools like NYU, Penn, WashU, if this is ur situation). I have however heard from schools where I was right at the 10th percentile or slightly above it.

 

[deleted1175692]

definitely go for schools where your stats are above or minimum at the 10th percentile. N=1 but I mistakenly applied to more than a few schools where I was below 10th percentile MCAT and have not heard back from any of them. I have however heard from schools where I was right at the 10th percentile or slightly above it.

Awesome! This is the most solid advice that I have seen for URMs. If ur above the 10th percentile for both MCAT and gpa u have a solid shot (EC, writing, and mission fit will secure the interview). Good luck with ur cycle!

 

[LeaveNoTrace]

Awesome! This is the most solid advice that I have seen for URMs. If ur above the 10th percentile for both MCAT and gpa u have a solid shot (EC, writing, and mission fit will secure the interview). Good luck with ur cycle!

I can agree here, more or less...as a Black man with a 3.6 and 519 who applied six years ago, that was more or less how my cycle turned out. OP should definitely have around half their list be top 20s, maybe a little less. However, I'd still contend that they're pack fodder at top 20s and strong everywhere else.

 

[LeaveNoTrace]

If you combine all of the schools HappyRabbit has in the "reach" category (which is 14 rather than 10, but I think every school there could reasonably be part of an "expanded T10"), there were 222 Black matriculants in 2022 according to MSAR. If the GPA and MCAT combination stats that Faha quoted are still somewhat accurate today, then I'd say there are definitely URM applicants who—assuming everything else about their application is strong—have a very compelling case because there's a finite number of people in the target stat range.

Academic mismatch is also something that I would think those schools worry about, and I say this as a Black man. A school where the median student has a 3.9 GPA, 522 MCAT, and probably has been on the high achieving academic track since elementary school may have a different teaching style from a school where the average is a 3.7/515. Not to fan the flames of imposter syndrome here...but there's only so much of a "boost" URM status gives you. Rightfully so, I'd argue: nobody is done any favors when people get in and do poorly, when they might have done well at a school that was a better fit for them.