School Psychology PhD programs

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Squarepants

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Howdy all. Are there any current applicants to School Psych programs here, or people who are currently in/graduated from such programs? I'm curious about whether you were able to find teaching assistanships/free tuition opportunities in school, or ended up having to foot the bill/take out loans, as in most PsyD programs. I read pages of old threads in the forum about School Psych, but I found very little on the financial aspect.

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Hi, I've applied to both school psych and counseling psych PhD programs. I have an interview with Illinois State next week. I know that Illinois State funds its students with tuition remission and stipend. That was one of the reasons I applied and was definitely something I looked at for all the schools I applied to because there's no way I'm footing the bill for a PhD program.
 
Can't help you but I'm interested as well. I'm looking into school psychology PhD programs as well. I have heard the remission is a lot nicer than clinical programs because they're not nearly as competitive.
 
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Salsybabe and PhDshallsee, thank you for the input.* I just stumbled upon the Illinois State site, and found they offered a good introduction to SP, and the various things school psychs did after graduation.

I was set on clinical PhD programs initially, but now I think I'd be more interested in either child clinical or school programs. However, programs that offer little financial support, in terms of things like tuition-wavers and assistantship offers, (like most PsyD programs) are out. Hopefully some folks who've been through the process are here, and can offer some advice to us prospectives? :D

* Psisci, I'm aware of your opinions on SP, and I'd prefer this thread not to turn into yet another pro/anti-SP batch of bickering. :cool:
 
What exactly does a school psychologist do and what are the training and credentialling requirements? Is a PhD/PsyD required?
 
What exactly does a school psychologist do and what are the training and credentialling requirements? Is a PhD/PsyD required?

http://www.psychology.ilstu.edu/schlpsy/WhatIsASchoolPsychologist.html
http://www.psychology.ilstu.edu/schlpsy/FrequentlyAskedQuestions.html

But basically, after completing a doctoral program (scientist-practitioner model for PhDs), you're a licensed psych, but with a focus in assessment (or prevention/intervention) in educational systems. However, they also work in hospitals, mental health facilities, universities, and so on. Credential requirements are similar to those of Clinical/Counseling PhD programs - research, dissertations, internships, licensing tests, APA cert, etc.
 
It's nice to see I'm not alone on this board in having an interest in school psych! I am primarily interested in assessment, which I really enjoyed when I had the chance to assess pre-school children for a job I had. I am also interested in helping to design prevention programs in the school setting, especially on issues of teenage pregnancy and eating disorders. I am also really interested in conducting research on these issues. Right now I'm in a master's program in counseling and I'm doing a counseling internship where I work primarily with children. I really do like the intervention/remedial side of things, but I decided I did not want that to be my focus. I feel I can do more working within the school environment. Also, I want to have the option to work in other settings that cater to children, which the PhD would offer. But that does depend on the program. Squarepants, I also applied to Buffalo's combined Counseling/School program, which you might want to check out as well. You have the option of concentrating in either counseling or school.
 
For a reason.:cool:

Not sure what you mean by this or if it's meant to be snarky?

But I was told that there is a currently a shortage of school psychs, period, and particuarly such at the docotoral. A lot of school psychs are filling the positions clinical psychs once held in children's hospitals and such. And the number of school psychs licensed both at the advanced master's level, which is the basic educational requirement and at the doctoral level.

I'm not sure if you're trying to say it's easier than clinical psych and that's why it's not as competitive and typically offer a better stipend. It's simply not true considering the APA has nearly the same requirements for a school psych program as a clinical program.
 
But I was told that there is a currently a shortage of school psychs

I've also heard there is a shortage. I've seen quite a few teachers go this route, which I think is a great transition. I think it is important to have worked in a school previously bc it can be a quirky place to work, even moreso than in business or a related area.

A lot of school psychs are filling the positions clinical psychs once held in children's hospitals and such.

I've not heard this before, what kind of positions are they filling?

I'm not sure if you're trying to say it's easier than clinical psych and that's why it's not as competitive and typically offer a better stipend. It's simply not true considering the APA has nearly the same requirements for a school psych program as a clinical program.

I think they are related fields, though there is definitely some variance....so your 'ideal' candidate is going to vary.

(Just my own soapbox for a moment)

It seems that a clinical psychologist can be a school psychologists, but not the other way around.....so why do just school?

I don't mean this to be negative, but instead be an opportunity to differentiate the two paths. I've worked in a couple of school systems (both clinically and as an educator), and I know that area....though I don't know much outside of the school system, in regard to school psych work. It seems like the field has shifted (per some feedback I've heard from friends), and also with the expanded job opportunities mentioned above......though i'm still trying to figure out what that means for school psychs and also clinical psychs.

-t
 
(Just my own soapbox for a moment)

It seems that a clinical psychologist can be a school psychologists, but not the other way around.....so why do just school?

-t
You have it backwards. School psychologists can fill t he role of a clinical psychologist, but a clinical psychologist cannot work in schools unless they are certified as a school psychologist. In other words, all doctoral level school psychologists are licensed psychologists. All licensed clinical psychologists are not school psychologists.

Training in clinical psych is necessary, but not sufficient for training as a school psychologist. School psychologists are heavily trained in educational theory. In fact, some school psychology programs are actually educational psychology programs that offer a major/concentration in school psychology.

One reason clinical psychologists cannot be school psychs is because school psych programs teach toward the Praxis II, which is the national certification test for all school psych programs. You cannot obtain certfication in school psych until you pass the Praxis. The Praxis is not a clinical test; it's a test based on education theory, teaching methods, and things you would find in a school setting. There is no equivalent program in clinical psychology programs--even child clinical programs--that would prepare a licensed clinical psychologist to pass this test.

I think school psychology is the one field of psychology at the doctoral level that people know little about. Very few people knew that you can get a PhD in school psychology and complete a postdoc in specialized fields--such as neuropsych. A lot of neuropsych programs will offer a school psych a postdoc, and a lot of them will give them an equal chance against a clinical or counseling application. Rarely are they pushed to the bottom because of their degree.

I have pretty much decided to go with school psych, thanks in part to having a school psych as a teacher in developmental psych and educational psych. She put to rest a lot of myths that I had about (like specializing in neuropsych). Even more unique, she's been in the field over 30 years and shared with me just how much the field has changed. It used to be a lot of mental health and educational testing. But now, with things such as early intervention, and the rise of autism and ADHD, their roles are more specialized. so much so, many school systems that used to have one or 2 are finding that they need at least 1 or 2 for each school. Some school systems have up to 20 school psychologists. So imagine how many a district like LA, NYC, or Chicago needs and imagine how specialized some of them will need to be. They will want one who is heavily trained to work with early intervention; they'll want one who can work with neurological disorders or impairments, such as traumatic brain injuries, they'll want one who can work along side the school system's gifted and talent program...and so on and so on. It is one of the fastest growing fields in education and one of the fatest growing occupations nationwide among all occupation, but esp. among doctoral level positions (although you only have to have an advanced degree--either a Ed.S or Psy.S to be licensed). And a doctoral level school psychologist who works in the school is well paid considering few school psychologists work all 12 months of the year.

But they also work in hospitals, esp. children's hospitals, child development clinics, research organizations, and in private practice. in fact, I know clinical psychologists who have specifically hired school psychologists to practice with them because they are so heavily trained in educational practices and programs, such as Part C and IEPs.

I think a lot of people think school psychologists aren't properly trained and only work in school systems. And clearly, it's not true.
 
1 reason clinical psychs cannot be school psychs is we are independently licensed and insured, and are not tools of the school district to create the outcomes they want by way of a trumped up title. School psychs are owned and operated.
 
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1 reason clinical psychs cannot be school psychs is we are independently licensed and insured, and are not tools of the school district to create the outcomes they want by way of a trumped up title. School psychs are owned and operated.
Your evidence being...?
 
You have it backwards. School psychologists can fill the role of a clinical psychologist, but a clinical psychologist cannot work in schools unless they are certified as a school psychologist. In other words, all doctoral level school psychologists are licensed psychologists. All licensed clinical psychologists are not school psychologists.

I think school psychology is the one field of psychology at the doctoral level that people know little about. Very few people knew that you can get a PhD in school psychology and complete a postdoc in specialized fields--such as neuropsych. A lot of neuropsych programs will offer a school psych a postdoc, and a lot of them will give them an equal chance against a clinical or counseling application. Rarely are they pushed to the bottom because of their degree.

Interesting. I wasn't aware that a school psych could go into something like neuropsych. I understand the strong assessment experience you have, but I thought it would usually go the other way: clinicial nuero specializing in something like tramatic brain injury assessments, and then assessing the educational implications.

-t
 
APA accredited Ph.D. School Psychology programs simultaneously prepare students as board licensed Psychologists and certification as national and state certified School Psychologists. Many students complete APA internships in a variety of child settings. In addition to practicing in school settings, many eventually choose to practice psychology independently, work in hospitals, mental health clinics, as well as further specialize in other areas (e.g. neuropsychology as was mentioned) or pursuit academic positions. Not a bad gig really.
 
Hi everyone, hope some of you school psych people are reading this thread.

I've applied to several school psych phd programs this year and was hoping to get a feel for which ones other people have applied to. I am particularly curious about UC Berkeley (school psych, PhD) as it's my top choice. Has anyone out there applied to their program as well?
 
Regarding counseling, generally school psychology programs provide course work and practicum training in individual counseling, group counseling, and consultation. Many programs have additional training in community crisis counseling, family systems therapy, play therapy. Majority of programs are cognitive behavioral in orientation. University based programs usually operate clinics for training purposes.

Neuropsych.- In my experience, school psychology students have been rather competitive with neuropsychology internship and post doc positions that serve children. There is a nice relationship between their specialized training in learning, development, and assessment that connects nicely with neuropsychology. Those who are interested might also check out information regarding the American Board of School Neuropsychology.
 
Hi everyone, hope some of you school psych people are reading this thread.

I've applied to several school psych phd programs this year and was hoping to get a feel for which ones other people have applied to. I am particularly curious about UC Berkeley (school psych, PhD) as it's my top choice. Has anyone out there applied to their program as well?

Berkeley did phone invites, if you didn't get one yet, you are not in - I emailed to find out this much. Where else did you apply? I've applied to Umass Amherst School Psych and URI School Psych as well.
 
Berkeley did phone invites, if you didn't get one yet, you are not in - I emailed to find out this much. Where else did you apply? I've applied to Umass Amherst School Psych and URI School Psych as well.

:( oof, that really hurts. I was hoping to get out of new york. where do you live? do you think they accepted mostly in-state students? I've applied to Columbia Teacher's College and Fordham and have interviews for both next week. I've also applied to Temple in Philly and was informed that they are still reviewing applications and have not set interview dates.
 
Keep us posted on how your other interviews go Tomviv. Sounds like you have some other good options other than birkenstockville.
 
Keep us posted on how your other interviews go Tomviv. Sounds like you have some other good options other than birkenstockville.

hehe, thanks! what i know about the program just comes from the website, maybe it wasn't for me and I just didn't know it.
 
:( oof, that really hurts. I was hoping to get out of new york. where do you live? do you think they accepted mostly in-state students? I've applied to Columbia Teacher's College and Fordham and have interviews for both next week. I've also applied to Temple in Philly and was informed that they are still reviewing applications and have not set interview dates.

so what do people know about the program at Temple? I've been accepted at Penn State. Any comments about either program?
 
School psychs can function as clinical psychs if their training meets the training guidelines of their state for a licensed psychologist. Many states are moving in this direction of having school psychs be doctotal level licensed psychs who are trained/credentialled in school psych. The impetus for this is liability, much as it is for the same push in academia to have professors licensed as clinical psychs even if they are purely research trained psychs. Regardless of the reason, it is a good thing to move towards school psychs who are clinically trained, but many states do not require this and these people who are MA level trained at best cannot become clinical psychs. Clinical psychs cannot function as school psychs unless they get credentialled to do so, but it is not that difficult to get that credential, and I have know people to do just that.
 
Clinical psychologists are often hired as school psychs. . . I know several.

While there are dual certification programs and other clinical psychs who go back and get their certification, you cannot be a "school psychologist" simply holding a license as a clinical psychologist. You MUST have certification as a school psychologist. You cannot call a clinical psychologist a school psychologist unless they hold that certification. That goes against the licensing requirements of most state psych boards and it is very much against the law to use a title that you are not certified to use. Working in a school system does not make you a school psychologist by title--you get your title by obtaining your certification.

In addition, they must pass the Praxis II Subject Test for School Psychology to obtain their certification, and there is simply no way a clinical psychologist who isn't trained in school psychology can do this. It's not a clinical test.
 
While there are dual certification programs and other clinical psychs who go back and get their certification, you cannot be a "school psychologist" simply holding a license as a clinical psychologist. You MUST have certification as a school psychologist. You cannot call a clinical psychologist a school psychologist unless they hold that certification. That goes against the licensing requirements of most state psych boards and it is very much against the law to use a title that you are not certified to use. Working in a school system does not make you a school psychologist by title--you get your title by obtaining your certification.

In addition, they must pass the Praxis II Subject Test for School Psychology to obtain their certification, and there is simply no way a clinical psychologist who isn't trained in school psychology can do this. It's not a clinical test.

I understand the additional certification requirement (which I support, because they are two different animals), though I understand where Jon is coming from. I also know clinical psychologists who went through the certification to become licensed school psychologists. I personally wouldn't go through the hassle, but for some it isn't that big of a deal.

-t
 
Psychology boards do not license or monitor school psychs at all, educational systems do. Everywhere I have lived a clinical psych can get the credential and call themselves a school psych.
 
There are so many misconceptions about school psychology, esp. at the doctoral level. :confused:

The bottom line is, school psychologists at the doctoral level, upon completion of the program, become certified school psychologists, upon the completion of the passing of an exam, which is normally the Praxis II, taken in the third year.

Upon completion of the program, they are also eligible to take the board licensing exam. Upon successful completion of that exam, they are now licensed psychologists with a certification in school psychology.

I have a friend who graduated from a school psychology PhD program when they were not the norm.

He is now a board licensed psychologist in 3 states, a nationally certified school psychologist, a certified school psychologist in 3 states and a board certified neuropsychologist. He never completed a clinical program in his life.

It can be done and there are many who have done it.
 
He never completed a clinical program in his life.

Then it becomes a question if he is qualified to practice in the core areas of clinical psychology. From what I've seen from school psychology programs....they don't have much in the way of in-depth theory, and don't have much in the way of supervised therapeutic training. Correct me if i'm misinformed, but I'd think that doesn't put the person in the best position to do therapy at the doctoral level. I know they complete practica in core areas of school psychology, and a subsequent internship...but how does that qualify as enough clinical hours of direct pt therapy?

-t
 
Then it becomes a question if he is qualified to practice in the core areas of clinical psychology. From what I've seen from school psychology programs....they don't have much in the way of in-depth theory, and don't have much in the way of supervised therapeutic training. Correct me if i'm misinformed, but I'd think that doesn't put the person in the best position to do therapy at the doctoral level. I know they complete practica in core areas of school psychology, and a subsequent internship...but how does that qualify as enough clinical hours of direct pt therapy?

-t

But that's one of the misconceptions.

The short answer is no, they're not in the best position do to therapy at the doctoral level and most are comfortable telling you that.

That's why school psychologists are taking jobs in children's hospitals, where most clinical psychologists hired don't do therapy. But they'll never be competition for private practice clinical psychologists.

Most school psychologists with private practices don't do therapy. They do far more consulting and diagnosing, and most times, their job is to relate it back to education--hence why clinical psychologists not trained in school psychology might have some issues. School psychs are heavily trained in education theories. And clearly, school psychologists are at a disadvantage--most only work with children.

It's kind of like the difference between clinical and counseling. They clearly have a lot of overlap areas, but they do two very different things.
 
You are clearly very new to the scene. In many states school psychologists do not need to be doctors, and this was the norm everywhere until very recently. You seem to feel that school psych is an advanced specialty of psych in general and this is not the case at all. School psychs, regardless of training, title etc.... are testing machines who are not allowed to make medical diagnoses, and are in place to serve school districts. I have no beef with the profession, but I interact with school psychs alot who do great testing work, assign a kid to some obscure educational tract like SED/LD/Resource class etc..., and say he/she may possibly exhibit s/s of autism. But because you cannot diagnose the school district does nothing to help this autistic child because they do not want to pay for it, and a few smart parents get outside counsel, get referred to me who can look at the data, make a medical diagnosis of autism, write a short note and make something beneficial happen for this kid....
 
Psisi, I'm not new to school psychology at all. I've been involved with the field for over five years now.

I know school psychologists normally don't carry doctorates. But this forum is about student doctors, so I have no need to discuss master's level school psychologists.

And school psychologists can make medical diagnoses and very often do.

But I think it's about time to agree to disagree. We clearly have two very different views of school psychology, both shaped by people we have encountered in the field.
 
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Is anyone else here applying to School Psych at Umass Amherst? Have you heard about an interview yet?
 
so what do people know about the program at Temple? I've been accepted at Penn State. Any comments about either program?

I've been offered an interview at Temple on March 12...have you found out anything more about the program?
 
:( oof, that really hurts. I was hoping to get out of new york. where do you live? do you think they accepted mostly in-state students? I've applied to Columbia Teacher's College and Fordham and have interviews for both next week. I've also applied to Temple in Philly and was informed that they are still reviewing applications and have not set interview dates.

I have an interview at Columbia also... in a few weeks. tomviv, how did yours go? :luck:
 
There are alot of changes happening in the field currently. Especially in regards to ld, there is now less emphasis on the discrepancy model. This means less of a focus on testing. I would suggest looking into schools that are conducting research on response to intervention models.

This is also a great field if you want to be in academia. There are tons of open school psych faculty positions, and there is often overlap in areas of research between school and clinical faculty. I'm in a combined program right now, and some of the school students do research with clinical faculty, and some clinical students research with school faculty.

Part of the reason for the shortage of sp faculty is compensation differences. If you want to practice, you start off making much more than if you go into academia, and with a 9-10 month work year at that. If you're really committed to academia, there will be plenty of opportunities for you. One person in my program who just defended had her choice from several tenure track positions...
 
I know someone else on here applied and perhaps others did too? Has anyone heard anything from UC Berkeley's school psych phd program?? At this point I just want my rejection letter so I know for sure
 
Now I have to choose which program URI or UMASS Amherst... one is based in the psych department while the other is based in the ed department. Anyone have any opinions on either program? Help please!
 
At the phd level, we do get training in therapy. Formal training is not as extensive as in clinical. I had 3 therapeutic courses (a general, systems course), a CBT course, and a advanced/group counseling course. Also received psychdynamic perspective & am learning child therapy now in externship. I have externships at a family counseling center (where counseling and clinical psychs also receive training), a hospital, and a parent training clinic.

School psychs have many options at the doctoral level. Please learn about our field and how we are trained before you pass ignorant, snap judgments.

Thank you

What kind of therapy training do school psychologists get?

-t
 
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At the phd level, we do get training in therapy. Formal training is not as extensive as in clinical. I had 3 therapeutic courses (a general, systems course), a CBT course, and a advanced/group counseling course. Also received psychdynamic perspective & am learning child therapy now in externship. I have externships at a family counseling center (where counseling and clinical psychs also receive training), a hospital, and a parent training clinic.

If you read my comments (from 2+ years ago), you'd see the above was my point. PhDshallsee's position was that school psychologists could fulfill the duties of a clinical psychologist (including neuro testing and therapy), but not the other way around, when in fact they are still two distinct areas where the training varies quite a bit. My posts were meant to tease out the differences.
 
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