School Specific Pre-med Success Rates

[md-2020]

So people keep asking how much of a factor undergrad ranking/prestige plays in medical school admissions, and there's rarely a clear answer. I obtained the following numbers from my undergrad's advising office today:

Top 5-15 school
First-time (junior) applicants, 2014 cycle:
Total success rate: 75-80%

sGPA>3.0 = 75%
sGPA>3.4 = 85%
Avg. acc. student sGPA = 3.4-3.6

MCAT>28 = 72%
MCAT>32 = 88%
Avg. acc. student MCAT = 30

Obviously these are a departure from national numbers and many SDN truisms. I'd love to see if you guys can post similar stats for your respective schools, so we can get a better idea of just how important school reputation is in this process.

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[gyngyn]

So people keep asking how much of a factor undergrad ranking/prestige plays in medical school admissions, and there's rarely a clear answer. I obtained the following numbers from my undergrad's advising office today:

Top 5-15 school
First-time (junior) applicants, 2014 cycle:
Total success rate: 75-80%

sGPA>3.0 = 75%
sGPA>3.4 = 85%
Avg. acc. student sGPA = 3.4-3.6

MCAT>28 = 72%
MCAT>32 = 88%
Avg. acc. student MCAT = 30

Obviously these are a departure from national numbers and many SDN truisms. I'd love to see if you guys can post similar stats for your respective schools, so we can get a better idea of just how important school reputation is in this process.

The challenge of interpreting these self reported data are manifold.
The school gets to identify who is counted in both the numerator and the denominator (e.g. all applicants, only seniors, only seniors with certain stats, only those with a committee letter, no re-applicants...).
The schools play an important part in encouraging and discouraging an application.
"Success" can be variously defined: MD only, MD or DO, Carib/International included.
The state in which the school is located may have a strong effect on the outcome....

 

[WedgeDawg]

I found all of the data for the Ivies except Columbia a while ago. Look through my post history if you're interested.

Edit: found them:

Acceptance rate to medical school from undergraduate colleges:

Penn: 76% (http://www.vpul.upenn.edu/careerservices/gradprof/healthprof/parents.php)

Dartmouth: "about twice the national average" (http://www.dartmouth.edu/~interviewers/pdfs/college_fairs_faqs.pdf - page 6)

Princeton: "Admissions for Princeton applicants to medical school have remained well above the national average (85-95% annually from Princeton, 45-50% nationally)...Between 35% and 40% of students who matriculated to medical school in the past four years is attending a top 10 US News & World Report research school." (http://www.princeton.edu/hpa/premed/prospective-students/2013-HPA-Frequently-Asked-Questions.pdf - page 2)

Cornell: 67% (sucks to suck) (http://www.career.cornell.edu/paths/health/medschool/charts.cfm)

Brown: 85% (http://www.brown.edu/admission/undergraduate/explore/admission-facts)

Yale: 88% (http://ocs.yale.edu/sites/default/files/med_school_stats.pdf - page 1)

Harvard: 85% (http://isites.harvard.edu/fs/docs/icb.topic1085420.files/Winthrop Pre-Med Handbook 2012-13.pdf - page 16)

I could not for the life of me find Columbia's....

I go to one of the 8 school listed above

 

[Cotterpin]

@WedgeDawg Why not Columbia?

 

[WedgeDawg]

@WedgeDawg Why not Columbia?

I just couldn't find it. If you can find it let me know!

 

[Cotterpin]

I just couldn't find it. If you can find it let me know!

I'll see if I can get it tomorrow. Might take a few days.

 

[md-2020]

I found all of the data for the Ivies except Columbia a while ago. Look through my post history if you're interested.

Edit: found them:



I go to one of the 8 school listed above

Our stats overlap!

I find it interesting that Dartmouth claims what...90%? (national average being 45%) Seems high for them.

 

[md-2020]

The challenge of interpreting these self reported data are manifold.
The school gets to identify who is counted in both the numerator and the denominator..
The schools play an important part in encouraging and discouraging an application.
The state in which the school is located may have a strong effect on the outcome....

Ah yes, the infamous 95% acceptance rate from JHU!

 

[WedgeDawg]

Our stats overlap!

I find it interesting that Dartmouth claims what...90%? (national average being 45%) Seems high for them.

They say "around twice" which I generally take to mean ~85% (similar to Brown).

Edit: I think I can guess what school you go to - PM me if you're interested

 

[tessellations]

I go to a state school in New England and after some researching it appears that the only stats my school's website posted were for dental school (80%) and podiatry, optometry, and chiropractic school (95%). They did mention that students accepted to medical school for the fall of 2014 had at least a 3.7 cumulative average and at least a score of 33 on the MCAT. Incidentally, these are the same acceptance stats for our state's public medical school. But unfortunately no percentage. I would normally find this unnerving but there are a lot of people here who seem to label themselves as premed but refuse to do things outside of academic achievement, so I'm less concerned with the percentage to be honest.

Edit: I should also mention that in general, our premed advisors are pretty accepting. They are pretty good at not turning people away from the dream though they are very realistic. And seem fairly knowledgable except when it comes to other states' public med schools

 

[mehc012]

My school (small LAC, very highly ranked) tells us we've got an 80% acceptance rate for those with a B+ average or higher (no mention of MCAT cutoffs). Of course, that doesn't mean that those with a B+ average themselves have an 80% chance; it could simply mean that most of the premeds at my school have a high gpa, so the outliers down to B+ range aren't enough to hurt the acceptance rates

In my experience, they do not discourage us from applying or refuse their prehealth services to those with poor stats, so that's not a factor. I approached them with no clinical experience and a <3.2 gpa and they simply helped me make the right choices moving forward. They were honest with the odds but not discouraging.

 

[On Eagle's Wings]

My state school (not a top 100) boasts over an 80% success rate for pre-meds who receive the committee letter from our health professions committee.

 

[md-2020]

My state school (not a top 100) boasts over an 80% success rate for pre-meds who receive the committee letter from our health professions committee.

So they select/reject people like JHU?

 

[Cotterpin]

My school definitely refuses to give people committee letters if they don't jump through a bunch of hoops and meet certain gpa criteria. But to be fair, they set the gpa bar super low. Like, I think you have to be above a 3.0 and you can't have any single grade below a C.

 

[On Eagle's Wings]

As long as you fill out the entire application, you will get a committee letter. The only cases I have heard of people not getting a committee letter is if the committee reviews your application and meets with you to tell you likely are not a good applicant (meaning it is very unlikely they would get in).

The main issue is that a lot of people do not utilize the committee letter, especially DO applicants. Several of my friends decided not to apply for the letter for whatever reasons. The other issue is that a lot of people get washed out before the application process (grades, EC's, etc).

 

[On Eagle's Wings]

My school definitely refuses to give people committee letters if they don't jump through a bunch of hoops and meet certain gpa criteria. But to be fair, they set the gpa bar super low. Like, I think you have to be above a 3.0 and you can't have any single grade below a C.

Our application is pretty long (over 20 pages). You have to write a 2000 word essay, describe all of your activities in college, and rate yourself on several character qualities (professionalism, reliability, etc). They use this info to write the 3-5 page committee letter about you. Just this process alone I think would drive out people who don't want to send winter break essay writing, although you are practically guaranteed a letter if you complete the process.

 

[Cotterpin]

Our application is pretty long (over 20 pages). You have to write a 2000 word essay, describe all of your activities in college, and rate yourself on several character qualities (professionalism, reliability, etc). They use this info to write the 3-5 page committee letter about you. Just this process alone I think would drive out people who don't want to send winter break essay writing, although you are practically guaranteed a letter if you complete the process.

We had a similar process. I definitely had to write a butt load of essays for them. But those alone would not have qualified me for a letter.

 

[ChrisMack390]

My undergrad only counts people who they are willing to write committee letters for, and they only write committee letters for people who are as close to guaranteed to get in somewhere as there is in this process, so of course they get to report 90+%

 

[md-2020]

We had a similar process. I definitely had to write a butt load of essays for them. But those alone would not have qualified me for a letter.

That's terrible.

 

[TaroBubbleTea]

My undergrad only counts people who they are willing to write committee letters for, and they only write committee letters for people who are as close to guaranteed to get in somewhere as there is in this process, so of course they get to report 90+%

And that's why these school specific medical school acceptance rates are worth less than the glossy brochures they're printed on.

 

[md-2020]

And that's why these school specific medical school acceptance rates are worth less than the glossy brochures they're printed on.

Well I mean the schools that openly do this are already generally known.

 

[gyngyn]

Well I mean the schools that openly do this are already generally known.

I'm all ears!

 

[md-2020]

I'm all ears!

I think the notable ones are Hopkins Duke Columbia and WashU

Some top schools don't even have "committee letters" AFAIK.

 

[gyngyn]

I think the notable ones are Hopkins Duke Columbia and WashU

Some top schools don't even have "committee letters" AFAIK.

I can confirm that I see many re-applicants from all these fine schools so a very high success rate must have something to do with how they define success.

 

[Banco]

I found all of the data for the Ivies except Columbia a while ago. Look through my post history if you're interested.

Edit: found them:



I go to one of the 8 school listed above

Which committees screen, though?

 

[WedgeDawg]

Which committees screen, though?

In summary, it doesn't look like any school actually has a hard screen with the possible exception of Brown (based on stats). However, most schools (except perhaps Dartmouth and Columbia) require an interview with the health professions advising to determine the suitability of the candidate. I would imagine if there is a glaring problem with the applicant's application (ie no clinical experience, 2.8 GPA, etc), they would be discouraged from applying but not outright stopped. Again, I only attend one of these schools and can only comment with absolute certainty about that particular one, but this is what I have found in my search.

-- --

Harvard: Does not appear to screen, but works with applicant throughout the process via personal advisor to ensure they are competitive (The Application Process - Faculty of Arts & Sciences)

Yale: Has a required interview where an advisor will discuss whether or not you're a competitive applicant, but not a true screen (http://ocs.yale.edu/content/health-professions-evaluation-interview)

Princeton: Not officially, but there is an advising letter process which requires an interview, though they state that there are no MCAT or GPA cutoffs to make an applicant eligible for a letter (http://www.princeton.edu/hpa/applicants/composite-letter/)

Columbia: Appears that the committee letter be written upon student request as long as the student has completed all necessary requirements (such as taking the MCAT) (https://www.cc-seas.columbia.edu/preprofessional/health/application/recommendations.php)

Dartmouth: Does not have a committee letter. Has a "composite letter" instead with no centralized committee (Interfolio Composite Letter Process - Dartmouth College)

Penn: Not explicitly, but there is a lengthy process that the applicant goes through prior to getting the committee letter, so I assume if the applicant is too weak, they discourage them from applying - certain questions have to be addressed if GPA is below 3.1 (http://www.vpul.upenn.edu/careerservices/files/Applicant_Manual_Final.pdf)

Brown: Must have competitive stats (3.6/32 for MD and 3.4/27 for DP) and ECs as well has having taken most of the premed courses (https://www.brown.edu/academics/college/advising/health-careers/applicants/process#eligibility)

Cornell: Has an "evaluation committee" that adds a letter to the applicant's file as to how suitable they are for the medical profession, but does not seem to actually screen (http://www.career.cornell.edu/paths/health/medschool/hcec/index.cfm)

 

[md-2020]

I can confirm that I see many re-applicants from all these fine schools so a very high success rate must have something to do with how they define success.

I don't have the stats on hand but aren't their 1st time acceptances rates between 75-95% (JHU)?

 

[gyngyn]

I don't have the stats on hand but aren't their 1st time acceptances rates between 75-95% (JHU)?

I don't know.
Nor do I know how they define success.
I can tell you that I see plenty of re-applicants.
Maybe all their re-applicants apply to my school, and it's a selection bias.

 

[Banco]

I don't have the stats on hand but aren't their 1st time acceptances rates between 75-95% (JHU)?

Some school committees screen and only write committee letters for applicants they seem fit, and likely only report the stats for those applicants.