schools with 1 year of preclinical curriculum- how does that even work?

[giraffesuptop]

I understand how the traditional 2 years of preclinical stuff can be condensed into 1.5 years, but how can it adequately be fit into 1 year at places such as Vanderbilt, Duke, etc? The amount of info to learn over 2 years is already considered tremendous, so do the schools that do 1 year preclinical cut out some topics that are otherwise covered in 2 year preclinical programs??

I would greatly appreciate comment from med students, residents, etc that are in/graduated from 1 year preclinical programs. This is just something I am curious about.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

I'm curious as well. It'd be nice to hear from someone at Duke or Vanderbilt.

 

[StIGMA]

At least at Duke, the 1 year is ~12 (11?) months straight with classes through the summer (minus some vacations). At 1.5 year programs eg: Columbia, the summer is off, so it is approximately 14 months of classes (3 semesters). There is not much difference between these two curricula. For what its worth, the most high strung/hyperactive pre-clinical medical students I met while interviewing were at Duke.

In both cases, it is intense, and core material is not cut out. What may be cut out are superfluous lectures (eg: biochemist talking about specifics of his research, while the normal biochem material is retained). All core material is included, and you are forced to "eat it" very quickly.

First year is not as important as second year in the grand scheme of things (and the important things are reiterated in 2nd year or in clinicals), so typically first year is very condensed (anatomy, histology, embryology, biochem, cell bio, genetics, basic pharmacology, biostats all shoved into tight timeframes) while 2nd year subjects (how the whole body works in health and disease) are given basically their normal teaching.

If you have a weak science background, a condensed curriculum could be challenging. You are expected to know/understand material at first pass.

 

[Espadaleader]

The one year curriculums are much more intense. There are no summers and much more lecture etc. There is limited extracurricular etc.

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

The one year curriculums are much more intense. There are no summers and much more lecture etc. There is limited extracurricular etc.

But it seems that they give you more time for other activities (such as research) in the 3rd year. I guess there are pros and cons to this. And of course, there's the perennial USMLE "adequate prep" discussion.

 

[Espadaleader]

But it seems that they give you more time for other activities (such as research) in the 3rd year. I guess there are pros and cons to this. And of course, there's the perennial USMLE "adequate prep" discussion.

Good morning. They don't give you time to do research in your third year. That's a lie. In Duke's curriculum at least you have to take Step 1 during your third year so you can't completely focus all on your third year research.

 

[nemo123]

Like others have said, your MS1 summer is completely cut out and you have 12 months of pre-clinicals which is somewhat comparable to the 14 months that the 1.5 year pre-clinical schools have. Also, Vandy told us that it isn't so much that a lot of things are cut out, but some of the material has been moved to the MCY (because they believe it makes the most sense to put it there).

 

[Narmerguy]

Good morning. They don't give you time to do research in your third year. That's a lie. In Duke's curriculum at least you have to take Step 1 during your third year so you can't completely focus all on your third year research.

Most schools give their students no more than 4-6 weeks protected time to study for Step 1. There is no reason that studying for Step 1 should affect a student's entire year of research, especially after they've already had a year in the clinic. Duke students do well on their boards.

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

http://dukemed.duke.edu/modules/ooa_myedu/index.php?id=4

Good morning. They don't give you time to do research in your third year. That's a lie. In Duke's curriculum at least you have to take Step 1 during your third year so you can't completely focus all on your third year research.

This is from the Duke site:
"Students spend 10-12 months in scholarly pursuit during the third year. Each student is expected to submit a thesis, manuscript, or grant proposal at the end of their 3rd year. Many third year students work with their mentors to submit papers for publication in peer-reviewed journals."

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

Good morning. They don't give you time to do research in your third year. That's a lie. In Duke's curriculum at least you have to take Step 1 during your third year so you can't completely focus all on your third year research.

This is what Vanderbilt has on their website:

They seem to make time in the 3rd year for research.

 

[breakintheroof]

Thanks for posting Vanderbilt's curriculum chart.

At a lower level of detail, does this look like an accurate comparison of 1.5-year vs. 1-year preclinical systems?

 

[mmmcdowe]

I think both of these schools are great for people who really want to do research rather than the many applicants who "want to do research".

 

[nemo123]

Thanks for posting Vanderbilt's curriculum chart.

At a lower level of detail, does this look like an accurate comparison of 1.5-year vs. 1-year preclinical systems?

Step 1 is often taken after the MCY in a 1.5 year curriculum. Schools tout it as one of the major strengths of the condensed curriculum.

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

I think both of these schools are great for people who really want to do research rather than the many applicants who "want to do research".

And of course there's Stanford, which is a 5-year medical school for most of its students.

 

[breakintheroof]

Step 1 is often taken after the MCY in a 1.5 year curriculum. Schools tout it as one of the major strengths of the condensed curriculum.

Good to know, thank you. Does this mean the MCY would start in the spring of the 2nd year, rather than the summer?

 

[nemo123]

Good to know, thank you. Does this mean the MCY would start in the spring of the 2nd year, rather than the summer?

Yep, normally right after Christmas break.

 

[Espadaleader]

Schools with one year curriculum appear rushed. There are much less opportunities to pursues passions outside of medicine during the first year due to increased class time. Second, the 3rd year is NOT a research year because you have to take Step 1 within that year. Its really a 9 to 10 month block. I think the benefit of a research year is to not have to worry about academics, which Duke and Vandy students don't have. So if you want to go abroad for example, you need to take your Step 1 first. At a 2 year or 1.5 year school, when you take a gap year after your third year, you are free to concentrate on research (granted some take Step II during this time). Also, When do Duke students take Step II??? Vandy has dedicated Step II time. Duke doesn't.

 

[Espadaleader]

Granted, there are upsides. An opportunity for a "free" research year. Step I will only take 1-2 months of that year, so its not a total deal-breaker.

http://medschool.duke.edu/sites/medschool.duke.edu/files/documents/DukeCurriculumGraphic_9-13_0.pdf

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

Granted, there are upsides. An opportunity for a "free" research year. Step I will only take 1-2 months of that year, so its not a total deal-breaker.

http://medschool.duke.edu/sites/medschool.duke.edu/files/documents/DukeCurriculumGraphic_9-13_0.pdf

Obviously, schools like Duke and Vandy are not for everyone. At this point, I'm leaning towards a 1.5-2 year pre-clinical track, with an additional year for research or a Master's (5 years total).

 

[DermViser]

I think both of these schools are great for people who really want to do research rather than the many applicants who "want to do research".

Most applicants at these schools are going for competitive specialties anyways, so that 1 year of research has the potential to be a good use of time.