Schools with good pre-med programs, and 1 more question about DO degrees.

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surgeon_hopeful

surgeon_hopeful

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Hey,

I was wondering if anyone can help a high school senior figure out some good pre-med schools? Please don't recommend schools like HYPS, because I have little desire to go to them, and I won't get in anyway. I'm looking for either good state schools, such as Michigan, UT-Austin, University of Washington, or good private schools that have great pre-med programs (such as University of Miami-FL and University of Rochester).

Also, although I really shouldn't be wasting my time with this right now, I'm still thinking a bit about DO vs MD, and did a bit of research. From my research, I found that DO (since it's cheaper, and I like the approach actually) is a perfectly acceptable choice if you are looking to go into either general surgery, IM, or primary care, but not if you are looking at the top fields (i.e. Radiology, Derm, Orthopaedic surgery, etc.). I was wondering if D.O. is a good choice (versus MD of course) if one is looking into neurology or gastro?

thanks in advance!
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surgeon_hopeful said:
Hey,

I was wondering if anyone can help a high school senior figure out some good pre-med schools? Please don't recommend schools like HYPS, because I have little desire to go to them, and I won't get in anyway. I'm looking for either good state schools, such as Michigan, UT-Austin, University of Washington, or good private schools that have great pre-med programs (such as University of Miami-FL and University of Rochester).

Also, although I really shouldn't be wasting my time with this right now, I'm still thinking a bit about DO vs MD, and did a bit of research. From my research, I found that DO (since it's cheaper, and I like the approach actually) is a perfectly acceptable choice if you are looking to go into either general surgery, IM, or primary care, but not if you are looking at the top fields (i.e. Radiology, Derm, Orthopaedic surgery, etc.). I was wondering if D.O. is a good choice (versus MD of course) if one is looking into neurology or gastro?

thanks in advance!
Click to expand...

1. Go to a undergrad where you can succeed and do well.
2. DO schools are not necessarily cheaper.
3. I like the approach too.
4. There is a huge thread for asking if a DO can be a .... People will likely jump down your throat for asking the last question.
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=468120
 
It really doesn't matter where you go. I'd say a state school with a lot of resources and a good pre-med office to help you out.

A school in a city with a hospital where you can volunteer would also be a plus.
 
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I went to Michigan, and I can tell you that the pre-med program is very strong. U of M is also the second biggest feeder school to medical schools in the country (behind UC Berkley). Right now, MSUCOM is the only DO school in the state, but it has two campuses, and there are three MD schools (Wayne State, MSU, and U of M). Within the next two years, however, Oakland University will open a medical school and MSUCHM will open an additional campus in Grand Rapids. Essentially, this will add up to two DO schools and 5 MD schools (counting the satellite campuses as schools). Since all of these are state schools and show instate preference, it's a very good option.
 
I am from Wisconsin and went to Florida State University, which has an excellent pre-med program. When visiting colleges, it made the biggest impression on me (of course if had to of to make me move from Wisconsin to Florida after highschool).
 
By the way, the pre-med department is pretty helpful here at UT-Austin, but their area of expertise is the TX schools. What state are you a resident of?

There is also the busiest level II trauma center in the nation, which is a good place to volunteer.
 
Going to a state school without being in-state makes little sense, tuition-wise.

UWash makes no sense if you're not from WA. Furthermore it's a weak program for premedical, because of huge class size (good luck getting recommendations), competition from massive hordes of future biomed PhDs, no tangible premed support other than clubs, and no advantage for getting into UWash med school (and it's the only state-supported med school).

Upside is the vast array of undergraduate science majors with vast opportunities to do research and vast clinical volunteering gigs.

If I could do it over I'd pick a small private secular liberal arts school, on the semester system, for undergrad, and then at least do Peace Corps before med school.

Best of luck to you.
 
Any accredited 4 year university should do the trick, as long as you succeed in your school work. As far as tuition goes, DO schools are just as expensive, if not moreso, than allopathic(MD) schools. This is due to the fact that most DO schools are private. As far as specialties are concerned you could be an osteopathic physician and specialize/subspecialize in any field available.

Make sure you do well in your undergraduate courses and don't sweat it just yet, you have time.

Good Luck
 
Ummm, what is HYPS? :oops:
 
DrMidlife said:
I'll guess Harvard Yale Princeton, um, I give up on the S. Maybe Stanford?
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Ahhh I see. I was thinking the OP was referring to just one school in particular.
 
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We are pre-meds. We have a different definition of cool!
 
Jpc984 said:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=468120
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Hey, thanks for trying, but that link didn't really answer my question at all. Although I took a glance, everyone seemed to just be joking around the whole time and none of the serious questions were ever really answered.

One of you mentioned that you wouldn't go to a public because it is impersonal, then would you maybe recommend going to a honors college since the classes are smaller and such? I really like the state school atmosphere, and tend to dislike private schools where (although I'm definitely generalizing) people have their noses held up higher than normal, and honors at a state school will have more personal contact, but I'm worried that honors courses will be unnecessarily harder, and may ruin my GPA. To make things worse, no one even cares about honors designation, and think that it's mostly garbage anyways, so maybe all that extra time can be spent elsewhere?

Btw, I forgot to put PM&R, so IM-subspeciailities, PMR, and especially neurology are the ones I'd like to know about the most, and how hard it is for DOs to match in those.
 
what r u SAT's and gpa. if money is not an issue, go to the best possible school u get into.
 
Unless you have parents that will be footing the bill for college, go to your state school (as long as it's halfway decent) and save the tuition $$$, you'll be in debt enough from med school. Really though, just focus on keeping your grades up, do well on the MCAT and get involved early with community service events and other ECs (volunteering, shadowing, research, etc....)

I'd say get some clinical experience early on and really nail down whether or not you truly want to go to med school. I know it's easy to say it now, but one of the best things you can do is to really nail down that decision for yourself early in undergrad, especially if you don't have much/any experience in the field currently.

And DO schools aren't necessarily going to be cheaper, since a lot are private schools that may not offer reduced in state tuition like some state MD schools do.

Ask 10 different people on here about DO vs. MD and you'll get 20 different responses..... For the most competitive MD residencies, yes, there still might be some discrimination against DOs. Does it mean that DOs don't go on to allopathic neurosurg or derm residencies? Of course not. And regardless, making this sort of decision based on your choice of specialty at this stage is a little premature, lots of students go into 3rd or 4th year of med school not really sure what specialty they want to go into.

At this point just focus on doing well in undergrad. And if you won't be footing the bill then go for a top university, otherwise go where it's convenient.
 
i graduated from the honors college of a large state university. i disagree that "no one even cares about honors designation". it has been mentioned at all of my job interviews post-grad and at my med school interview. plus, when you're an honors student at a large school, you get tons of perks and faculty members LOVE you (ie welcome you into their research labs, grad courses). also, the classes tend to be way smaller, which leads to more personal connections and many times, easier grading (partial credit).

and as far as honors courses being harder and ruining your GPA, this is class specific. i actually thought some honors courses were easier since many were more discussion based and the professor's would cut out the b.s. assignments. when you get to your school, just ask upperclassmen what honors courses are good and which aren't (for ex, at my school, the honors orgo I was much easier than the massive class other students had to take)


surgeon_hopeful said:
Hey, thanks for trying, but that link didn't really answer my question at all. Although I took a glance, everyone seemed to just be joking around the whole time and none of the serious questions were ever really answered.

One of you mentioned that you wouldn't go to a public because it is impersonal, then would you maybe recommend going to a honors college since the classes are smaller and such? I really like the state school atmosphere, and tend to dislike private schools where (although I'm definitely generalizing) people have their noses held up higher than normal, and honors at a state school will have more personal contact, but I'm worried that honors courses will be unnecessarily harder, and may ruin my GPA. To make things worse, no one even cares about honors designation, and think that it's mostly garbage anyways, so maybe all that extra time can be spent elsewhere?

Btw, I forgot to put PM&R, so IM-subspeciailities, PMR, and especially neurology are the ones I'd like to know about the most, and how hard it is for DOs to match in those.
Click to expand...
 
surgeon_hopeful said:
...One of you mentioned that you wouldn't go to a public because it is impersonal, then would you maybe recommend going to a honors college since the classes are smaller and such? I really like the state school atmosphere, and tend to dislike private schools where (although I'm definitely generalizing) people have their noses held up higher than normal, and honors at a state school will have more personal contact, but I'm worried that honors courses will be unnecessarily harder, and may ruin my GPA....
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I think you'll find that your impression of undergraduate education doesn't hold up in reality. You can't really eliminate variables and make a perfect choice. There will be snobs everywhere you go for the rest of your life, so getting used to them makes more sense than trying to avoid them. In my experience you're going to find the most snobs in honors classes. There's no standard for honors programs - every school is different. For example, at UWash, there's no honors program, but the chem department offers honors versions of their genchem & ochem series; there's engineering physics which is arguably the "honors" version compared with the non-calculus version; one bio sequence fits all; one genchem sequence fits all. Private schools with small classes and fantastic faculty might give you crappy preparation for med school.

From the vantage point of high school, there's no way you're going to make a choice that you'll still consider wise when you're 40, and if somebody else makes a wise choice on your behalf, the school could change in an unpredictable way. Others have said as much: you can't make a perfect choice here. You could pick a school based on great faculty reputation, and a bunch of faculty could retire. You could pick on cost and then tuition goes up. You could pick on safety and then your school is the next VaTech. You could pay a professional to coach you through this and they could get it very wrong. All you can do is make an educated choice and then do the best you can.

I've heard it from more physicians than I can count: it doesn't matter where you go to undergrad, and it doesn't matter where you go to med school, it's your residency and fellowship that end up mattering.

Bottom line, nobody can figure this out for you, and you can't really get it all that wrong. Your odds of success are just as good if you go with the good football team.
 
surgeon_hopeful said:
Hey,

I was wondering if anyone can help a high school senior figure out some good pre-med schools? Please don't recommend schools like HYPS, because I have little desire to go to them, and I won't get in anyway. I'm looking for either good state schools, such as Michigan, UT-Austin, University of Washington, or good private schools that have great pre-med programs (such as University of Miami-FL and University of Rochester).

Also, although I really shouldn't be wasting my time with this right now, I'm still thinking a bit about DO vs MD, and did a bit of research. From my research, I found that DO (since it's cheaper, and I like the approach actually) is a perfectly acceptable choice if you are looking to go into either general surgery, IM, or primary care, but not if you are looking at the top fields (i.e. Radiology, Derm, Orthopaedic surgery, etc.). I was wondering if D.O. is a good choice (versus MD of course) if one is looking into neurology or gastro?

thanks in advance!
Click to expand...


University of Florida = Shands Hospital on the campus, VA Hospital across the street, more research opportunities than you can count, pre-med clubs and advisors, good weather...and Gators!:thumbup:
 
surgeon_hopeful said:
Hey,

I was wondering if anyone can help a high school senior figure out some good pre-med schools? Please don't recommend schools like HYPS, because I have little desire to go to them, and I won't get in anyway. I'm looking for either good state schools, such as Michigan, UT-Austin, University of Washington, or good private schools that have great pre-med programs (such as University of Miami-FL and University of Rochester).

Also, although I really shouldn't be wasting my time with this right now, I'm still thinking a bit about DO vs MD, and did a bit of research. From my research, I found that DO (since it's cheaper, and I like the approach actually) is a perfectly acceptable choice if you are looking to go into either general surgery, IM, or primary care, but not if you are looking at the top fields (i.e. Radiology, Derm, Orthopaedic surgery, etc.). I was wondering if D.O. is a good choice (versus MD of course) if one is looking into neurology or gastro?

thanks in advance!
Click to expand...

Try to find out what the state supported med schools in your state look for. Typically as an instate student your state supported med school offers you the best chance of admission (because it will discriminate in your favor) and will give you the cheapest deal on tuition. If you get into your home state’s med school you might have $200,000 in med school debt after a four year residency. If you go to a private school you might be $350,000 in debt after a four year residency. Ask the admissions office if it considers the difficulty of the undergraduate school and major or if it only cares about your grade point and MCAT. If they only care about grade point average and MCAT don’t go to some insanely difficult engineering school to compete with geniuses. You should make sure on the other hand that any school you would attend will prepare you for the MCAT and isn’t a joke in the eyes of the admissions office. You should make sure that the course descriptions in the sciences at an undergrad school look like what your state med school requires.

I would carefully look at the course descriptions for the Physics department at any school that interests you. If a school does not give you the choice between algebra based and calculus based physics for basic physics I would have second thoughts about going there. Most people SEEM to think that calculus based physics has little marginal value over algebra based physics for the MCAT but calculus based physics can be a nightmare. Some small colleges only offer calculus based physics. All Big 10 schools including Michigan, Northwestern and Purdue offer algebra based physics and some Ivy League schools like Princeton and Cornell offer algebra based physics. The faculties at these universities don't seem to think that you need calculus based physics to be a prestige institution.


You might also look at the requirements for various majors. Does the Chemistry department offer a chem major that does not require Physical Chemistry? Physical Chemistry is tough and it generally requires calculus based physics. Does the Biology department spoon feed you to get you started or do they start you off with some back breaker course to weed people out?

Meet some science majors at schools that interest you on campus visits. If the girls on the campus only talk about the next physics exam and the guys can’t define “zone blitz” and “full court press” you may want to avoid that place.

Here’s one last thing to remember. Spread out your required science courses as an undergrad. Take four science courses a year and no more. Don’t be in a hurry. At four a year you can still take the MCAT after your junior year. Look for non-science courses that are easy A’s. Avoid mean spirited professors who grade on C curves. There’s a world full of jerks with PhD’s. Every A you get will be a piece of gold. Good luck.
 
Also, although I really shouldn't be wasting my time with this right now, I'm still thinking a bit about DO vs MD, and did a bit of research. From my research, I found that DO (since it's cheaper, and I like the approach actually) is a perfectly acceptable choice if you are looking to go into either general surgery, IM, or primary care, but not if you are looking at the top fields (i.e. Radiology, Derm, Orthopaedic surgery, etc.). I was wondering if D.O. is a good choice (versus MD of course) if one is looking into neurology or gastro?
Click to expand...

Out of frustration I've decided to set this thread on fire.
It's called the search button... you clearly didn't read what it found last time.

montana-fire.jpg
 
Don't apply to colleges where your standardized test scores (SAT & ACT) are below average. You may be able to get in and through at a "reach" school but your gpa will/might suffer for it. This is a wimpy way to look at this deal but you will need to shine when you apply to med school. Your gpa needs to stand out.

At some schools the grade inflation that started in the 1970's has been reversed. If this has happened at a school that's full of kids who can do linear algebra in their sleep, where would you be when the grades get handed out? Marvin Hagler was a great fighter, but he never had to mix it up with Larry Holmes.
 
surgeon_hopeful said:
Hey,

I was wondering if anyone can help a high school senior figure out some good pre-med schools? Please don't recommend schools like HYPS, because I have little desire to go to them, and I won't get in anyway. I'm looking for either good state schools, such as Michigan, UT-Austin, University of Washington, or good private schools that have great pre-med programs (such as University of Miami-FL and University of Rochester).

Also, although I really shouldn't be wasting my time with this right now, I'm still thinking a bit about DO vs MD, and did a bit of research. From my research, I found that DO (since it's cheaper, and I like the approach actually) is a perfectly acceptable choice if you are looking to go into either general surgery, IM, or primary care, but not if you are looking at the top fields (i.e. Radiology, Derm, Orthopaedic surgery, etc.). I was wondering if D.O. is a good choice (versus MD of course) if one is looking into neurology or gastro?

thanks in advance!
Click to expand...

Check out Loyola Chicago if you can afford it. One of the best pre-med programs, also contains an early entry program with Stritch. You can apply for that program in your sophmore year. Plenty of people get accepted each year, some even go to places like JHU, Yale, WashU, and U of C. All in all, a pretty solid pre-med program.
 
Ask 10 different people on here about DO vs. MD and you'll get 20 different responses..... For the most competitive MD residencies, yes, there still might be some discrimination against DOs.
Click to expand...

thats right- youll get a billion different answers. But the best way to find out for yourself is to check recent matchlists of schools you are interested in. You will find that DO students match derm, rads, optho, etc etc at just about every school, every year.

They don't even have to be at the schools that SDNers consider the "best". For example VCOM matched 2 neurosugery and a few radiology (at Wake Forest) in their first class.


Also- I agree. Go to a school that you can feel comfortable and pull off great grades. If you go to Cornell and only get a 3.0, chances are your still not getting in med school in the country. However, if you go to a lower tier school and get a 3.7 your chances are very good.
 
Maximus- you should set threads on fire more often
 
Obnoxious Dad said:
Try to find out what the state supported med schools in your state look for. Typically as an instate student your state supported med school offers you the best chance of admission (because it will discriminate in your favor) and will give you the cheapest deal on tuition. If you get into your home state’s med school you might have $200,000 in med school debt after a four year residency. If you go to a private school you might be $350,000 in debt after a four year residency. Ask the admissions office if it considers the difficulty of the undergraduate school and major or if it only cares about your grade point and MCAT. If they only care about grade point average and MCAT don’t go to some insanely difficult engineering school to compete with geniuses. You should make sure on the other hand that any school you would attend will prepare you for the MCAT and isn’t a joke in the eyes of the admissions office. You should make sure that the course descriptions in the sciences at an undergrad school look like what your state med school requires.

I would carefully look at the course descriptions for the Physics department at any school that interests you. If a school does not give you the choice between algebra based and calculus based physics for basic physics I would have second thoughts about going there. Most people SEEM to think that calculus based physics has little marginal value over algebra based physics for the MCAT but calculus based physics can be a nightmare. Some small colleges only offer calculus based physics. All Big 10 schools including Michigan, Northwestern and Purdue offer algebra based physics and some Ivy League schools like Princeton and Cornell offer algebra based physics. The faculties at these universities don't seem to think that you need calculus based physics to be a prestige institution.


You might also look at the requirements for various majors. Does the Chemistry department offer a chem major that does not require Physical Chemistry? Physical Chemistry is tough and it generally requires calculus based physics. Does the Biology department spoon feed you to get you started or do they start you off with some back breaker course to weed people out?

Meet some science majors at schools that interest you on campus visits. If the girls on the campus only talk about the next physics exam and the guys can’t define “zone blitz” and “full court press” you may want to avoid that place.

Here’s one last thing to remember. Spread out your required science courses as an undergrad. Take four science courses a year and no more. Don’t be in a hurry. At four a year you can still take the MCAT after your junior year. Look for non-science courses that are easy A’s. Avoid mean spirited professors who grade on C curves. There’s a world full of jerks with PhD’s. Every A you get will be a piece of gold. Good luck.
Click to expand...

thanks for the great advice. Jeez, it's crazy that I already have to look slightly at what medical schools I want to go to (I thought college was hard enough to decide!). But anyways, my home state med school currently is OHSU. I've heard that OHSU isn't the best med school in terms of helping out their instaters, so I am thinking about trying to gain residence in washington (If I want to go to UW) while I'm there because it's much harder, if not impossible to get into UW OOS than OHSU OOS. So, I'll have to see which one I end up going to (btw, how hard is it to gain state residency?)

At UW, I hate to sound like an arrogant person, but I'm well above average. It's my safety, so if I go there, I should do well there because my GPA and test scores are well higher than the 75th percentile. I'm not so worried about doing well GPA-wise, because I know I'll work hard and not screw this up, but I am worried about the MCAT. I tried a section just for the hell of it, and I didn't get anything on bio (probably because I barely learned anything yet). But pretty much, you guys are saying to just go wherever I'm happy, and can be most successful, and that even if I mess up in college and "only" get into a DO program, I can still pull my act together and get whatever speciality I want by killing in med school, right?
 
I don't know if you can become an in state resident and take a full course load... I know you cannot in Michigan. If you are interested in Osteopathic Medicine, try to shadow DOs and MDs throughout the four years of undergrad to show you have an interest.

"It's my safety, so if I go there, I should do well there because my GPA and test scores are well higher than the 75th percentile." Also, be careful here... College and medical school (so I have heard) is a very humbling experience, so work hard and excel! gl
 
surgeon_hopeful said:
Hey,

I was wondering if anyone can help a high school senior figure out some good pre-med schools? Please don't recommend schools like HYPS, because I have little desire to go to them, and I won't get in anyway. I'm looking for either good state schools, such as Michigan, UT-Austin, University of Washington, or good private schools that have great pre-med programs (such as University of Miami-FL and University of Rochester).

Also, although I really shouldn't be wasting my time with this right now, I'm still thinking a bit about DO vs MD, and did a bit of research. From my research, I found that DO (since it's cheaper, and I like the approach actually) is a perfectly acceptable choice if you are looking to go into either general surgery, IM, or primary care, but not if you are looking at the top fields (i.e. Radiology, Derm, Orthopaedic surgery, etc.). I was wondering if D.O. is a good choice (versus MD of course) if one is looking into neurology or gastro?

thanks in advance!
Click to expand...


the BIGGEST adivce we can tell you is to keep your grades high, never let your GPA (overall and science) go below 3.5, study hard and have fun..

as far as what medical school you want to go to, thats all you. MD or DO no one can tell you which one is right for you...

For me personally, I don't look at them as MD or DO degrees, I look at them as "medical schools", whichever one gives me a better feeling, that is the one I will attend.
 
Definitely make sure that you have fun! And save some time for extracirricular activities, both within and outside the medical field.
 
SmallTownEMT said:
Definitely make sure that you have fun! And save some time for extracirricular activities, both within and outside the medical field.
Click to expand...

He's right. You will only be young once. However, if you mess up in undergrad you won't be getting into a US DO school. By the time you apply to med school, if current trends continue, you will probably not have a shot at any DO program with less than a 3.4 and a 28 on the MCAT. Look at these threads and see how many smart people are sweating bullets over this. I am quite sure that virtually all of these med school hopefuls were at the 75th percentile on the ACT and SAT.

State residency is a legal question and the laws that define residency vary from state to state. There are federal constitutional issues at work as well that are predicated on the 14th amendment but I'm not perfectly fluent with them in my advanced years. Generally speaking you have to work full time for a year and not be a full time student in a state to acquire residency.

Why wouldn't you think about staying in Oregon and going to Eugene for undergrad? Talk to the pre-med adviser there and see what kind of luck they have in getting people into med school. Talk to upperclassmen in the sciences and get the general consensus about U of O as a premed program. You can't beat instate tuition.

If I were changing my state residency to get into med school I wouldn't pick Washington although I think Seattle is great. Look at states like Georgia, Illinois and Minnesota that have med schools (Mercer, SIU and Minnesota Duluth) that don't accept out of state residents. Look at states with relatively large numbers of state med school spots per state resident. I think Texas and Michigan would fall into that category.
 
But, it would be difficult to become a Mich resident and UMich is expensive.
 
Obnoxious Dad said:
He's right. You will only be young once. However, if you mess up in undergrad you won't be getting into a US DO school. By the time you apply to med school, if current trends continue, you will probably not have a shot at any DO program with less than a 3.4 and a 28 on the MCAT. Look at these threads and see how many smart people are sweating bullets over this. I am quite sure that virtually all of these med school hopefuls were at the 75th percentile on the ACT and SAT.

State residency is a legal question and the laws that define residency vary from state to state. There are federal constitutional issues at work as well that are predicated on the 14th amendment but I'm not perfectly fluent with them in my advanced years. Generally speaking you have to work full time for a year and not be a full time student in a state to acquire residency.

Why wouldn't you think about staying in Oregon and going to Eugene for undergrad? Talk to the pre-med adviser there and see what kind of luck they have in getting people into med school. Talk to upperclassmen in the sciences and get the general consensus about U of O as a premed program. You can't beat instate tuition.

If I were changing my state residency to get into med school I wouldn't pick Washington although I think Seattle is great. Look at states like Georgia, Illinois and Minnesota that have med schools (Mercer, SIU and Minnesota Duluth) that don't accept out of state residents. Look at states with relatively large numbers of state med school spots per state resident. I think Texas and Michigan would fall into that category.
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Yeah, doesn't texas offer something like 90-95% of their spots to texas residents only? That's one of the main reasons I'm really looking at UT, but I wonder how hard it is to be a resident at Texas.

Btw, about the whole above 75% thing, I was afraid that by saying this you guys would take it the wrong way and think I'm being arrogant, and my fears have seemingly materialized. My point isn't to come off as being cocky at all, if anything, people say I have self-esteem issues. I know that when I go to college, I'm going to be in a radically different environment, and some things that I've had in HS won't be present in college, which doesn't guarantee that I'll be successful. However, according to the available data, the best guess I can make given my resources says that I should be one of the better ones there. Remember how you guys even said there is no right or wrong answer, and I can only make a best guess? Well, that's precisely what I'm doing here using my GPA, ACT, etc. Also, given that I've taken a pretty hefty course load and still managed to keep my GPA well above the mean, should say that I'd be reasonably successful here as opposed to say Stanford, but again, I'm not saying there are guarantees.

Finally, how common is it for people to change their state residencies? The thing is, I'll be paying full OOS tuition, and if it takes forever to establish residency in the state, then it might not be worth it. If it's pretty easy to establish residency, then maybe UTexas-Austin might be the place for me. It has everything I want:

-Solid academics (not Stanford, but it's pretty up there)
-Great Athletics/traditions
-Amazing college town
-Hot girls ;)
-If it allows me better ability to get into med school due to residency, then that's another HUGE plus.
 
Jpc984 said:
But, it would be difficult to become a Mich resident and UMich is expensive.
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UMich is expensive but you can get a wonderful education in the sciences at Michigan State and Michigan Tech. According to a former Cornell life sciences dean (with whom I played golf) , Michigan State is world class in areas like molecular biology. Michigan Tech has always been first rate in the sciences. Those schools are cheaper for out of state students than Michigan.

Keep in mind, however, that state schools rarely allow full time students to acquire residency status. I know that it can be done but its tough.

I do think that Texas does actively discriminate against out of state students. However, most other states do as well. I'm not a Texas basher.

If you want to know what it takes to acquire residency I would call THE LAW SCHOOL at UT Austin and see if a student in a legal clinic would look it up for you. A better source would be a lawyer in Austin.

Here's one other thought. What about OSU in Corvallis? Universities with ag schools are often great in life sciences. Wisconsin is probably the best example.

PS You aren't arrogant.
 
If you want a good Ag program, look at Purdue.
 
A kind of hidden gem in TX is Rice. They are a small school, and very exclusive. And their pre-meds can pretty much write their own ticket to med school if they take care of business.

My late grandfather was chairman of chemistry there for like 20+ years. He died when I was like 4, but apparently, he was friends with linus pauling, and he has some award for achievement in mass spec named after him. I think if he had lived long enough to see me go to college, he would have kicked my ass into shape, and I would never have struggled the way I did.
 
If you want a good ag program where you will also have sex with farm animals, look at Texas A&M.
 
hey texastriathlete: I saw your MDapplicants profile from the link under your username (sorry if this was private or something), and I see you went to UT. Do you have any comments about the school and how hard the grading curves are? I've tried asking others, but all they say is that there are more hot girls than you can imagine there and the basketball and football teams rock.
 
Well I used to work with the basketball team, so I am going to be pretty biased towards them. And yes, many hot women.

The school is outstanding, but challenging. The early freshman/sophomore courses are very large and impersonal, but most of the profs are easily accessible by e-mail and in office hours. And in natural sciences, they are mostly outstanding scientists who have a lot to offer as instructors. The 33 I got on my MCAT was honestly pretty easy, and I attribute it to how much I was challenged in my pre-med courses.

Each professor will have a different curve for grading. Some will be harder than others. For example, I had Reichler for Genetics, and I got over 100 in that class, and really didn't do much studying. I wouldn't say he was easy, but I was also taking Molecular Biology and Microbiology 1 at the same time (you normally can't do this, but since I already had a degree, pre-requisites are waived), so I was getting the same crap from 3 classes at once. On the other hand, I had some friends who had a prof named Pierson, and they studied like 8 hours/day to get a B. This guy was exceptionally hard, but also was apparently a great teacher.

The kinesiology department is among the best in the nation, if not the very best. I know that between Ed Coyle, Joe Starnes, and John Ivy, we've got three of probably the top ten exercise physiologists in the nation working here. Tanaka is also getting himself quite a reputation.

I don't know much about the other programs, but if you are an OUTSTANDING high school student, you should look into Plan II. It is basically UT's answer to Ivy League schools, and schools like Rice, Vandy, etc.. They don't take many people, but I know that their pre-med placement into med school has been 100% some years.

http://www.utexas.edu/cola/progs/plan2/?path[0]=plan2

One thing I will say about UT... the opportunities are there, and they offer top-notch degrees in almost everything you can imagine. But it is also a big school, and it isn't for everybody. I struggled like hell coming from a small high school. I wasn't intimidated, but the huge, impersonal classes really exposed my weaknesses.

So here's my advice: if you come to UT, don't **** around. They have tons of cheap tutoring and stuff like that available. Utilize it. If you've got it in your mind that you want to join a fraternity, put it off for a year if you can, and get your study habits down first. If you work hard, you can get an incredible education from some of the top minds in the business, but it can also bury you in a hurry.

And if you've got Texas on your mind, it should be Texas, A&M, or Rice. Don't mess with any other school in this state. SMU, TCU, Baylor, etc. are decent schools, but for that money, you could go somewhere better.
 
My Honest Opinion...

go to the undergrad of your choice...it really does not matter where you go for undergrad....it is what you make of it. You may get more advice from pre-health committees at a school with a strong pre-med foundation...but honestly in the end...its all on you...Perform well...do well in your sciences..and do well on your mcats...take a lot of extracurriculars (health related and non health related) and you will be fine.

I went to high school in NJ and chose The University of Florida (Go gators!) cuz I fell in love with the campus...its a massive school and you really have to work hard to get to know your teachers for recs...but I LOVED every minute of my undergrad and I worked my butt off...

I also know students who went to smaller private schools and did the same thing, there are pros and cons for each...just chose your undergrad based on what school you love the most...and work your butt off to achieve your goals of going to med school...the only thing I would say is make sure the school you go to has the premed classes you need to take...which almost every school does..unless its a really really really small school.

thats my 2 cents.
 
Totally off topic, but that picture of the forest burning with the deer looking back up was bad ass.
 
Rotinaj said:
Totally off topic, but that picture of the forest burning with the deer looking back up was bad ass.
Click to expand...

I thought it was cool at first, then it reminded me of bambi, and I started to cry.
 
well, from my personal expierience i think the best pre-med schools have a medical school affiliated with the undergrad college. Most medical schools take preference to students from their undergrad institution (MD or DO). I know my undergrad college, as well as many others like NYU, Tulane, and BU, have this thing called "the creative scholors program" This program requires that you take bio,chem,phys, and orgo within your first two years and maintain above a 3.6 CUM gpa while doing it. If you achieve this feat, you are automatically granted admission to the medical school WITHOUT HAVING TO TAKE THE MCAT(after you complete your final two years of undergrad). This program is not binding, and if you choose to go to a different medical school than you will have to take the MCAT. Unfortunatley, I never knew about it until my junior year. With that said, i think it is something that you should consider when applying.

Good luck
 
yeah but for those programs don't they only take like 5 people each year? I mean, think about it. If all you have to do is get >3.6, then half of the pre-meds would get into their medical schools.

By the way, which is the best state to try and establish residency in in terms of number of med schools and how easy it is to get into med schools from instate? I.e. texas is a good state becuase there are a fair amount of med schools, and many of them GREATLY (like 90%+ people) are instate, thus being instate is a huge advantage, and the med schools are great. So are there others like texas that you can think of?
 
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