Science GPA (what courses are included)??

Getting into Med School is Hard? Not with BeMo.
This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
J

Jasmine26

Full Member
10+ Year Member
15+ Year Member
Joined
Oct 22, 2006
Messages
51
Reaction score
0
I started out as a science student and completed 1 year then I switched into electrical engineering and completed. I am a nontraditional applicatnt and am currently doing my Masters in Biomedical Engineering, (I know that they dont look too much at graduate GPA).

MY QUESTION:

I am confused about what courses they use to calculate the science GPA, and what they use as undergrad.
For example:
As a science student I took:
Cal I, Physics I & II, Chem I & II, Biology, English
As an engineering student at a different university I took:
Engineering core classes, including Linear Algebra, Cal II, Philiosophy, etc.

I also plan on taking genetics, physiology and organic chem to help prepare for the MCAT. (Will these be included in my science GPA?)

1) Can someone help me decide which courses count as Science GPA? and which as my undergrad? For example, my

English (humanities courses) are non-science, however they were not part of my requirement in my undergrad in

Electrical Engineering.

2)I was required to take linear algebra, Cal II as my engineering degree requirements, would they also be included

in my science GPA?????
Members don't see this ad.
 
Jasmine26 said:
I started out as a science student and completed 1 year then I switched into electrical engineering and completed. I am a nontraditional applicatnt and am currently doing my Masters in Biomedical Engineering, (I know that they dont look too much at graduate GPA).

MY QUESTION:

I am confused about what courses they use to calculate the science GPA, and what they use as undergrad.
For example:
As a science student I took:
Cal I, Physics I & II, Chem I & II, Biology, English
As an engineering student at a different university I took:
Engineering core classes, including Linear Algebra, Cal II, Philiosophy, etc.

I also plan on taking genetics, physiology and organic chem to help prepare for the MCAT. (Will these be included in my science GPA?)

1) Can someone help me decide which courses count as Science GPA? and which as my undergrad? For example, my

English (humanities courses) are non-science, however they were not part of my requirement in my undergrad in

Electrical Engineering.

2)I was required to take linear algebra, Cal II as my engineering degree requirements, would they also be included

in my science GPA?????
Click to expand...


Go to the AMCAS website (do a Google search) and download the pdf document with all of the instructions and information for completing the AMCAS application. This document will give you accurate information on completion of the AMCAS application and how GPAs are calculated. Rather than relying on the opinions of a message board, go the the actual document and find out for sure.
 
Agree with NJBMD that you should read the instructions on the AMCAS application. We know that you haven't, because AMCAS doesn't have a "science GPA." AMCAS calls it the "BCPM GPA," and BCPM = Biology, Chemistry, Physics, and Math. With few exceptions, ALL courses taught by those departments are used to determine your BCPM GPA. Courses not taught by those departments are not. But, there are excellent, detailed instructions about how to classify courses on the AMCAS website. All undergraduate and post-bac courses count toward your "overall" GPA.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
Thanks, that helps a lot. I only decided that I wanted to apply to medical school last mth so Im new to the whole process.
Im actually a Canadian citizen, so I guess my chances are lower getting into an American school.
This is kind of a silly question, but:

Do you know if when I apply to american schools am considered as international or a non-resident? I have checked the AAMC website, but I am not sure what qualifies as "non-resident" and "international", In Canada, all non-Canadian citizens are considered international students. Is it the same in the States?
 
Jasmine26 said:
Thanks, that helps a lot. I only decided that I wanted to apply to medical school last mth so Im new to the whole process.
Im actually a Canadian citizen, so I guess my chances are lower getting into an American school.
This is kind of a silly question, but:

Do you know if when I apply to american schools am considered as international or a non-resident? I have checked the AAMC website, but I am not sure what qualifies as "non-resident" and "international", In Canada, all non-Canadian citizens are considered international students. Is it the same in the States?
Click to expand...
I believe so (i.e. Canadians are considered international students,) but as a US citizen, I am by no means knowledgeable about this.
 
It didn't seem to matter what department my classes were taken in. AMCAS took every class that had the words biology, chemistry, physics or math in the title (this included engineering classes) into consideration when calculating my science GPA.
 
littleStella said:
It didn't seem to matter what department my classes were taken in. AMCAS took every class that had the words biology, chemistry, physics or math in the title (this included engineering classes) into consideration when calculating my science GPA.
Click to expand...
This is not the way it should go. AMCAS specifically states that engineering classes should be classified as "engineering" and not BCPM. Perhaps your experience was different, but AMCAS accepted all of my classifications as is.
 
I agree. Check the site if at all possible.
 
I actually have the same question. I did have looked at the AMCAS definition, but I am still confused. There are behaviour social sciences, health science, physical science, etc. Are they should be included in science GPA. Some of schools ask app;licant to put in science GPA in supplementary application. I wonder how they think about which courses are science, which are not?
 
md2011 said:
I actually have the same question. I did have looked at the AMCAS definition, but I am still confused. There are behaviour social sciences, health science, physical science, etc. Are they should be included in science GPA. Some of schools ask app;licant to put in science GPA in supplementary application. I wonder how they think about which courses are science, which are not?
Click to expand...
Once again, there is no such thing as a "Science GPA" on AMCAS. If you really did read the instructions, you would've seen that. AMCAS has the BCPM GPA, where BCPM stands for Biology, Chemistry, Physics, and Math. Behavioral Social Sciences, Health Sciences, etc are NOT Biology, Chemistry, Physics, or Math, so they are NOT included in the BCPM GPA. With VERY FEW exceptions, ALL courses taught by those four departments are included in your BCPM GPA, and all courses NOT taught by those departments are NOT included in your BCPM GPA. I'm not sure what is so difficult to understand?

If a school's secondary application asks for your science GPA they are asking for your AMCAS BCPM GPA, which you can just copy from your AMCAS application (AMCAS calculates your BCPM GPA for you.)
 
jota_jota said:
I'm not sure what is so difficult to understand?

If a school's secondary application asks for your science GPA they are asking for your AMCAS BCPM GPA, which you can just copy from your AMCAS application (AMCAS calculates your BCPM GPA for you.)
Click to expand...

Your last paragraph truely make the whole thing clear. Thanks!
 
Members don't see this ad :)
Ok I went to the website and Im still alittle confused. I took Calculus II, and Statistics, as well as advanced calculus, linear algebra, the list goes on as REQUIREMENTs for my Bachelors in Engineering.
are those included in my BPCM? I would prefer if they only included Cal I in my BPCM, and keep the other courses as engineering only, since Cal II is not a requirement for medical schools.
 
I did notice that they seperated the categories ( i really did read the instructions), I noticed statistics, math etc are placed under math. Do they take ALL math courses?
 
Yes, ALL Math courses are considered Math. It doesn't matter if they were required for your [non-math] major or not.

If the courses were taught by a different department than Math or Statistics (My Undergrad. school had a separate Statistics Department) and you didn't want that course to be included in your BCPM GPA, you MIGHT be able to slip them by as whatever department by which they are taught. Example: Suppose you took an "Electrical Engineering Statistics" Course taught by the Electrical Engineering Department. You MIGHT be able to slip that by as "Engineering" rather than "BCPM," but AMCAS DOES check these things and might change it to BCPM anyway.

If your Math courses were taught by the Math department, then they ALL count toward your BCPM GPA.
 
thanks, i guess that makes sense.
 
Can AMCAS change from MATH to other categories? How can they tell if a course is a math or not, just by name?
 
Sure, they change stuff all the time, based upon name, department, phase of the moon, etc. If they think you have misclassified a course, they will "correct" it for you. I think that if there are too many problems, they ask you to resubmit and you get put at the bottom of the pile, but I'm not sure about that.
 
jota_jota said:
With VERY FEW exceptions, ALL courses taught by those four departments are included in your BCPM GPA, and all courses NOT taught by those departments are NOT included in your BCPM GPA. I'm not sure what is so difficult to understand?
Click to expand...

Yes, but the classification is supposed to be based on course content, not department. Of course most courses taught in a biology department will end up counting as biology, but still, it's the content and not department that matter.

Amcas gives applicants significant discretion to list courses how they want. That's why some people list psych stats as math and others don't, yet neither get corrections. There also seems to be some unpredictability in what gets corrected. Presumably this is because different reviewers do different things. All you can do is classify them as best you can. But again, it is the content, and not the department, that ultimately matters.
 
beetlerum said:
Yes, but the classification is supposed to be based on course content, not department. Of course most courses taught in a biology department will end up counting as biology, but still, it's the content and not department that matter.

Amcas gives applicants significant discretion to list courses how they want. That's why some people list psych stats as math and others don't, yet neither get corrections. There also seems to be some unpredictability in what gets corrected. Presumably this is because different reviewers do different things. All you can do is classify them as best you can. But again, it is the content, and not the department, that ultimately matters.
Click to expand...
That's why I threw in the qualifier, "With VERY FEW exceptions."
 
Hey Jasmine, im an engg student too..and quite confused about how to list courses.

I read up on that link, thx for that! Everythign is quite clear for me when it comes to bio, chem and math since I took bio and chem as postbacc courses and the math ones are specifically stated as "mat..." in my engineering transcript. However, I didnt think it was necessary to take physics courses in my postbacc since i have an electrical engg degree and almost all my courses can be considered physics. Problem is all of them are "ece123" or elec engg courses, not "phy123". Anyone have any advice on which ones I should put under physics?

One option is I can pick two first year engg courses with typical physics course names like "electricity & magnetism". The problem with this is that I did horrible in first year courses, and much better later on by 3rd and 4th year. If i was "picking" physics courses I"d much rather pick later ones.

I could also go to my university and ask them to give me a list of equivalent physics courses that match my engineering ones. But I really dont want to have a majority of my first/second year engg courses counted in my BCPM average. Just 2 to make the prerequisite would be fine.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated....

thanks :)
 
Kiara said:
Hey Jasmine, im an engg student too..and quite confused about how to list courses.

I read up on that link, thx for that! Everythign is quite clear for me when it comes to bio, chem and math since I took bio and chem as postbacc courses and the math ones are specifically stated as "mat..." in my engineering transcript. However, I didnt think it was necessary to take physics courses in my postbacc since i have an electrical engg degree and almost all my courses can be considered physics. Problem is all of them are "ece123" or elec engg courses, not "phy123". Anyone have any advice on which ones I should put under physics?

One option is I can pick two first year engg courses with typical physics course names like "electricity & magnetism". The problem with this is that I did horrible in first year courses, and much better later on by 3rd and 4th year. If i was "picking" physics courses I"d much rather pick later ones.

I could also go to my university and ask them to give me a list of equivalent physics courses that match my engineering ones. But I really dont want to have a majority of my first/second year engg courses counted in my BCPM average. Just 2 to make the prerequisite would be fine.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated....

thanks :)
Click to expand...

For the most part, engineering courses can't be counted as BCPM. If you didn't take honest-to-goodness Physics Physics (with lab) you'll need to take it. Also, I'm not sure how you think that you can pick and choose which courses to count as BCPM. Either the course is BCPM or it isn't. Doesn't sound like you took Physics (which is surprising, since I am an Electrical Engineer, and I had to take 2 semesters of honest-to-goodness-taught-by-the-Physics-department Physics (with lab) in addition to all of my Electrical Engineering courses (many of which contained lots of Physics, as well.))

I wouldn't think you would be able to get away with counting "Semiconductor Physics" or "Solid-State Physics" as Physics courses (many medical schools specify general Physics or something like that,) if that is what you are talking about.
 
any input on this: I took a course called "Mathematical Modeling and Applications in Finance" it was a 600s level course in some weird dept like Information Management. is that math, non-math, or my call?
 
jota_jota said:
For the most part, engineering courses can't be counted as BCPM. If you didn't take honest-to-goodness Physics Physics (with lab) you'll need to take it. Also, I'm not sure how you think that you can pick and choose which courses to count as BCPM. Either the course is BCPM or it isn't. Doesn't sound like you took Physics (which is surprising, since I am an Electrical Engineer, and I had to take 2 semesters of honest-to-goodness-taught-by-the-Physics-department Physics (with lab) in addition to all of my Electrical Engineering courses (many of which contained lots of Physics, as well.))

I wouldn't think you would be able to get away with counting "Semiconductor Physics" or "Solid-State Physics" as Physics courses (many medical schools specify general Physics or something like that,) if that is what you are talking about.
Click to expand...

That really sucks...I know it is odd that I didnt take any "honest to goodness" physics courses. Although in first year I took electricity, magnetism 1 and 2,which i think are basic first year physics courses. Do you think if I got something from my dept saying which courses equal physics courses that would work?

Also say if I do have to take it, would my application still go through if I make sure to take it by next summer or something?

THanks for the info :)
 
Kiara said:
Also say if I do have to take it, would my application still go through if I make sure to take it by next summer or something?
Click to expand...

Not having all the prereqs done won't hold up your AMCAS whatsoever. It's the individual schools that determine what you need to have taken and when. The most popular policy seems to be that you only need to have the prereqs completed by MATRICULATION, but you should check with the schools to which you plan on applying to make sure. Also, I am not the (or even a) authority on what counts as BCPM or not, so I would try calling some schools to see what they say about counting those courses (they are the ultimate authority that judges whether you meet their prerequisites, not AMCAS. The AMCAS classification just impacts your BCPM GPA, as reported by AMCAS.)
 
jota_jota said:
Not having all the prereqs done won't hold up your AMCAS whatsoever. It's the individual schools that determine what you need to have taken and when. The most popular policy seems to be that you only need to have the prereqs completed by MATRICULATION, but you should check with the schools to which you plan on applying to make sure. Also, I am not the (or even a) authority on what counts as BCPM or not, so I would try calling some schools to see what they say about counting those courses (they are the ultimate authority that judges whether you meet their prerequisites, not AMCAS. The AMCAS classification just impacts your BCPM GPA, as reported by AMCAS.)
Click to expand...

Thanks! I've emailed a few of the schools to see what their advice on this issue is. It would really suck to take physics again....but oh well, shouldve thought of that earlier :p

So basically if i dont have any physics for the "BCPM" list in amcas..it wont stop my application from going through right, and then it would be upto the schools to decide what to do with that.
 
If anyone wants to know/is in my same situation...I did call almost all the universities that accepted Canadians and most said that they would accept my courses as prerequisities.
 
what about developmental courses? I have an embarrasing math grade way way back when I was thinking about going to college... I mean this sucker was pre-pre prior to algebra and the way it was described to me was it is a "developmental" course and no one will include that on an application. In fact whenever I transferred school no one ever took that credit.
 
christian15213 said:
what about developmental courses? I have an embarrasing math grade way way back when I was thinking about going to college... I mean this sucker was pre-pre prior to algebra and the way it was described to me was it is a "developmental" course and no one will include that on an application. In fact whenever I transferred school no one ever took that credit.
Click to expand...
Was it a college course? (including community college) If it is a college course, it is included in your GPA. If it a college math course, then it is inculded in your BCPM GPA.
 
Are botony courses included in the BCMP GPA? How about an astronomy course under the SCIE course code? How about a computer science course?
 
Ludacris said:
Are botony courses included in the BCMP GPA? How about an astronomy course under the SCIE course code? How about a computer science course?
Click to expand...
How about you read the link posted above (in post #22 of this thread.) The answers/classifications to at least 2 of your questions are SPECIFICALLY enumerated there.
 
jota_jota said:
Was it a college course? (including community college) If it is a college course, it is included in your GPA. If it a college math course, then it is inculded in your BCPM GPA.
Click to expand...

my thing is... I don't know... because seriously it is super developmental... I mean like 8th grade math... I don't even know what happened for it to get there... yes it was a college course but it was like a course before I could take regular courses...
 
christian15213 said:
my thing is... I don't know... because seriously it is super developmental... I mean like 8th grade math... I don't even know what happened for it to get there... yes it was a college course but it was like a course before I could take regular courses...
Click to expand...

Well, you would need to check with AMCAS to be absolutely sure, but I think no matter what, if it was a post-secondary class and you obtained college credit for it, then it needs to be listed and the grade is calculated into the appropriate GPA by AMCAS. As to the category, if the content was math, then it counts as BCPM.
 
spicedmanna said:
Well, you would need to check with AMCAS to be absolutely sure, but I think no matter what, if it was a post-secondary class and you obtained college credit for it, then it needs to be listed and the grade is calculated into the appropriate GPA by AMCAS. As to the category, if the content was math, then it counts as BCPM.
Click to expand...

wow, my mouth is open... that sucks... ok, talk about something that will take me from a 3.73 to a 3.63... do you think that is really a big deal?

by the way http://studentaffairs.columbia.edu/preprofessional/health/forms/BCPMcalculation.pdf ==== awsome website.
 
What about courses offered through other departments (like philosophy) that count towards a math major as a math elective? is that my call?
 
reallyconfused1 said:
What about courses offered through other departments (like philosophy) that count towards a math major as a math elective? is that my call?
Click to expand...

This question was asked and answered at least 6 times in this 3-4 year old thread, most notably in the second post:

Sol Rosenberg in 2006 said:
..."science GPA." AMCAS calls it the "BCPM GPA," and BCPM = Biology, Chemistry, Physics, and Math. With few exceptions, ALL courses taught by those departments are used to determine your BCPM GPA. Courses not taught by those departments are not."
Click to expand...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Next unread thread

Similar threads

J
cumulative science GPA vs post-bacc GPA
Replies
3
Views
914
chuckeecheeze
C
O
My science gpa is pretty bad.
Replies
7
Views
1K
CoolBreezes
C
N
“Non science major” classes
Replies
3
Views
450
Goro
Goro
I
Non-Science LOR
Replies
2
Views
611
Mr.Smile12
Mr.Smile12
Graveyard_Shift_Sally
What science courses (beyond minimum prereqs) are more impressive to Adcom?
Replies
10
Views
1K
Newtonian21
N
Top