Seeking advice re: California programs

[elizabeth5863]

I have a dilemma and am wondering if anyone can help. I need to cancel several of my interviews in CA because of time and financial limitations. I have family in CA, but I go to med out-of-state and have not done any away-rotations in CA to know what these residencies are like first-hand. I've already cancelled 4 of them but do not want to cancel an interview to a potentially good program without realizing it. I would appreciate any input from anyone who has done rotations at any of the California residency programs. (Hopefully, I can cancel more interviews so that I don't have to do them back to back for 4 weeks and so that any other applicant can get an interview date he/she wants).

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[atsai3]

I have a dilemma and am wondering if anyone can help. I need to cancel several of my interviews in CA because of time and financial limitations. I have family in CA, but I go to med out-of-state and have not done any away-rotations in CA to know what these residencies are like first-hand. I've already cancelled 4 of them but do not want to cancel an interview to a potentially good program without realizing it. I would appreciate any input from anyone who has done rotations at any of the California residency programs. (Hopefully, I can cancel more interviews so that I don't have to do them back to back for 4 weeks and so that any other applicant can get an interview date he/she wants).

Your extremely general question is likely to net you little information of use to you unless you help us out a little by posting which specific California programs you are interested in. That being said, I did a search in this forum and came up with the following threads: click for link.

-AT.

 

[elizabeth5863]

Thanks, atsai3.

I didn't initially post the California programs because I applied to almost all of them and got interviews at most.

Here are the ones I currently have scheduled interviews with:

UCSF
Contra Costa
San Jose O'Conner
Mercy Medical Center - Merced
San Joaquin General Hospital
Methodist Hospital - Sacramento
Sutter Health
Stanislau - Modesto
Mercy Redding - Redding
White Memorial Medical Center - Los Angeles
UCLA FMRP
Ventura County FMRP
Kaiser Permanente - Fontana
Long Beach Memorial FMRP
Harbor- UCLA
UC Davis Medical Center
Kaiser Permanente - Orange County
USC FMRP
Northridge FMRP
UC San Diego
Kaiser Permanente - Riverside
Kaiser Permanente - Los Angeles
Kern Medical Center - Bakersfield
Riverside County FMRP

I only have 1 month to do interviews in CA. I'm mostly interested in whether or not residents are happy there (if they're not happy, why?), if there are any changes going on with the curriculum, has any housestaff or faculty left, etc. -- mostly things that you can't find on their online websites unless if you interviewed there or did a rotation/sub-I there.

Thanks

 

[ttjan]

I've interviewed at two programs in So. Cal so far, USC--San Gabriel Valley (not to be mistaken with USC-California Hospital) and Glendale Adventist.

I was pleasantly surprised at how much I liked the USC-San Gabriel Valley program. The residents seemed very happy, perhaps because they have an excellent call schedule: 6 months in the first year, 4 months in the second year and 1 month in the third year. Contrary to what I had heard, they only do four weeks at County hospital (Pediatics). They do 6 weeks of OB at California hospital, without call (12 hours shifts only!). They get a full four weeks of vacation first year. No call for surgery rotation. Not bad.

All in all, I really liked the people I met. Even the interns I met seemed happy. San Gabriel Valley hospital is a community hospital where the Fam Med residents are totally unopposed. I would check this program out.

On the other hand, Glendale didn't impress me as much. The residents kept evading the question of how much call they took first year. By the end of the day, I concluded they took q4/q5 call for 11 months. When I asked about the 80 hr work week, the resident responded by pointing out that it's an 80 hour average over four weeks. Not a good sign.

Also, their main staff on family medicine inpatient is an internal medicine doc, who didn't seem too friendly.

I have interviews coming up at Presbyterian in Whittier, Kaiser L.A., UCLA Harbor and UCLA Santa Monica, White Memorial, Northridge, and Pomona. I'll post updates as I progress through those interviews. Hope this is helpful.

 

[elizabeth5863]

Hi ttjan,

Thanks for the info! I will share my thoughts on the CA programs too as I do my interviews. Unfortunately, I am doing my Midwest interviews first and will not start interviewing in CA until early December. Hopefully I will be able to provide you some useful information too - as you have done for me. I appreciate all your help!

 

[secretwave101]

Rotated at Ventura CMC. Although I ended up in Olympia, I still worship that program. I had a good chance of getting in there, but ended up not being able to afford COL.

Everything about the program is incredible with the exception of their psych emphasis. Plus, you can surf at a world-class spot about 15 minutes from the hospital.

 

[ttjan]

Rotated at Ventura CMC. Although I ended up in Olympia, I still worship that program. I had a good chance of getting in there, but ended up not being able to afford COL.

Everything about the program is incredible with the exception of their psych emphasis. Plus, you can surf at a world-class spot about 15 minutes from the hospital.

I hear that Ventura has A LOT of ob and surgery and lots and lots of call all three years. Is that true?

 

[elizabeth5863]

I haven't interviewed at Ventura yet, but one applicant I met while I was at another interview said she did a sub-I at Ventura County. She was totally enamored with the program; the teaching was phenomenal and residents got to do a lot. She didn't like the high cost of living, however. She did 2 weeks of OB and 2 weeks of surgery on this sub-I and said that she was running around doing a lot of deliveries. The residents there were doing cool things like saphenous vein removal, etc. per her. So from what I gathered from this piece of info, I guess there IS a LOT of Ob and surgery. She said the program emphasizes hospital medicine since residents will be doing plenty of clinic after they graduate, so they wanted to teach them hospital medicine instead (I don't know if this is good??? ). She also divulged that the residents don't really take the in-service exam held each November either and that they get away with a lot of the requirements. (I don't really know more beyond what she said). Hopes that helps. I'll let you know more when I interview there at the end of December.

 

[secretwave101]

Yes, as I mentioned, I also love the program. But I must say that some of those emphases - while incredibly cool - actually are a problem for FP training.

Saphenous vein removal? You're gonna need to literally be 10,000 miles away from CA to even think of doing something like that in practice.

And hospital work isn't clinical work. Outpatient clinical medicine is often portrayed as simplistic and easy. This is a mistake. Outpatient medicine is tough, largely because the differentials are very wide, and critical pathology is hard to distinguish from non-critical. After a few months doing mostly hospital work and then a half-day a week of clinic, I have to say that hospital medicine is not a good preparation for outpatient clinical medicine. It's much easier to determine clinical significance in a hospital setting. Outpatient medicine takes a finely-honed 6th sense, and you can only develop that sense by doing outpatient medicine itself.

And in America (and most of the developed world) FP's do mostly outpatient work. You've got to tear people's heads off to do anything more than that. And frankly, after being a part of some cases with poorer outcomes than expected and contemplating the spectre of being named in litigation, I'm also seeing my hubris for "full-spectrum" FP wane considerably.

Advice: Get good at outpatient clinical medicine. It's 99% of the job of 95% of the FP's in America.

 

[lowbudget]

I hear that Ventura has A LOT of ob and surgery and lots and lots of call all three years. Is that true?

Yup. That's what they told me in my interview 2 years ago. Great program. But you have to ask yourself if all that will be relevant to you when you graduate from residency... and for some it will, but for others, it detracts from other things they could train in. I mean, elizabeth5863's post was my impression also. I haven't figured out if their approach makes sense or not. I remember their telling me about getting training to do bowel resections. First impression: Bad Ass... but upon meditation... If you have good academic standings and could get into any specialty you want to, reflect on why you're going into Family Medicine.

I totally agree with Secretwave, especially with the inpatient/outpatient assessment. For me, no question that Ventura was a curve buster, 3 std devs out there... But sometimes, it's lonely at the top.

 

[sophiejane]

Advice: Get good at outpatient clinical medicine. It's 99% of the job of 95% of the FP's in America.

That is so true. I don't know where this whole procedure mania came from, but it's completely unrealistic for 95% of us to expect to do anything other than toenails, moles, treadmill stress tests. The other 5% can expect to do some OB,vasectomies, and circumcisions if they got a lot of them in residency.

Do I need to go to a program where I will be able to put in a central line using a straw and a few pipe cleaners out in the bush, at the expense of learning medicine well? Not me, thank you.

 

[Faebinder]

Saphenous vein removal? You're gonna need to literally be 10,000 miles away from CA to even think of doing something like that in practice.

Why? Too much competition for patients? Is that why?

 

[elizabeth5863]

Why? Too much competition for patients? Is that why?

I think it has more to do with liability issues, cost of malpractice insurance, and perceived acceptability. Family physicians usually do not get training to do something like saphenous vein removal. Maybe in a smaller, underserved, rural (?) community, there may be more need for them to learn and do certain procedures.

 

[elizabeth5863]

Does anyone know what the fp residents are like at the Riverside County Regional Medical Center? I received a packet from them, but no where did I find any information about the residents (i.e. their pictures, their interests/hobbies, where they are from, are they mostly FMGs or are there some US grads too?). There is nothing on the program's website about them either.

I have an upcoming rotation where I'm only allowed to miss two days (couldn't get my schedule changed) - I have to decide between Kaiser Permanente - LA, Kern Medical Center - Bakersfield, and Riverside County. I can only go on one of these interviews and need to cancel the other two. (I heard from a resident from a different program that Kaiser Permanente - LA doesn't really follow the 80 hour work week. Is that true??? I don't mind working hard, but it would be nice to know what I'm getting into beforehand.) Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks!

 

[elizabeth5863]

I have interviews coming up at Presbyterian in Whittier, Kaiser L.A., UCLA Harbor and UCLA Santa Monica, White Memorial, Northridge, and Pomona. I'll post updates as I progress through those interviews.

Hi ttjan,

Have you interviewed yet at White Memorial or UCLA Santa Monica? I have to choose between one or the other to interview at (since I couldn't get my schedule changed and all the alternate interview dates are booked). I'd like to know what you think. Thanks!

 

[windcold]

RCRMC mostly FMG, like kern, Few AMG

 

[mcindoe]

Hi ttjan,

Have you interviewed yet at White Memorial or UCLA Santa Monica? I have to choose between one or the other to interview at (since I couldn't get my schedule changed and all the alternate interview dates are booked). I'd like to know what you think. Thanks!

i interviewed at ucla santa monica and was impressed...nice group of people. only concern is that you rotate at a lot of hospitals all over LA, and it's quite a trek for some of them. but most of the residents looked at it as a plus because you get a lot of exposure to different environments and no one complained about it. the tough choice for me is choosing whether or not i would want the santa monica track or the mid-valley track...the latter seems much less popular but i'm not quite sure why and not knowing is kinda bugging me, cause i feel like there's something i should know about that someone isn't telling me, you know? (the santa monica track is much more popular than the mid valley one) anyone know any background on the two tracks and why the SM one is so much more popular? is it just because of location?

 

[elizabeth5863]

RCRMC mostly FMG, like kern, Few AMG

Hi windcold,
Do you know what the residents at RCRMC and Kern are like to work with? Almost every fp residency will have FMGs; most of the ones I've worked with in the various rotations in med school were really smart and cool to hang around. I just wanted to know what their personalities are like and if they are happy with their choice of program. Thanks!

 

[elizabeth5863]

i interviewed at ucla santa monica and was impressed...nice group of people. only concern is that you rotate at a lot of hospitals all over LA, and it's quite a trek for some of them. but most of the residents looked at it as a plus because you get a lot of exposure to different environments and no one complained about it. the tough choice for me is choosing whether or not i would want the santa monica track or the mid-valley track...the latter seems much less popular but i'm not quite sure why and not knowing is kinda bugging me, cause i feel like there's something i should know about that someone isn't telling me, you know? (the santa monica track is much more popular than the mid valley one) anyone know any background on the two tracks and why the SM one is so much more popular? is it just because of location?

I haven't heard about the two tracks at UCLA - Santa Monica, but looked at the program's website after you mentioned them and indeed there were 2 tracks listed. I'm not interviewing there until near the end of December, so I'm not as helpful... If you choose the Mid-Valley track, would you still have to do rotations in Santa Monica? If so, I'd choose the Santa Monica track so that you don't have to commute as much. At the Kansas City fair, one resident there told me that traffic can be so bad that she spends about an hour traveling to get to her rotation site. For me, the less the travel, the better.

Btw, I'm glad you were impressed by UCLA - Santa Monica. I almost canceled my interview there b/c a Kaiser resident told me that people at UCLA - Santa Monica were unhappy. However, she didn't tell me why.... Do you know how many pts on average UCLA - Santa Monica residents admit overnight when they are on inpatient medicine/fp? Did they mention what call was like? Thanks.

 

[ttjan]

Hi ttjan,

Have you interviewed yet at White Memorial or UCLA Santa Monica? I have to choose between one or the other to interview at (since I couldn't get my schedule changed and all the alternate interview dates are booked). I'd like to know what you think. Thanks!

Yes! I interviewed at both. They're both great for different reasons. I really, really like the director at Santa Monica and the residents were very nice and seemed very sharp. Down sides to the program are that they rotate at a lot of different hospitals, even though their main hospital is Santa Monica. They also have to do a real surgery rotation with UCLA surgery residents at the VA (not pleasant). On the other hand, it looks like you get great training.

White Memorial is amazing. It's in East L.A. almost 100% hispanic population. hospital is newly renovated (all rotations at one hospital). they have a very strong department at the hospital, alhtough not totally unopposed. residents were also super nice, semed very happy. first year is hard there, but cameraderie seems really strong among the residents. the residency directors were also very, very nice and had been there for a long time.

i would go to both of these interviews if you still can.

and i don't think you mentioned PIH in Whittier--but in case you did. I didn't like it. I had four-minute interviews and left there feeling like nobody got to know me and didn't get to anybody either. the facilities are nice, but they're morning report is run by an internist who is brutal. totally pimped the hell out of the on call team and even pimped us the applicants. why would anybody want to go to a family practice program with an internist pimping you everyday?

will post updates on kaiser sunset, pomona, and northridge as they come up!

 

[ttjan]

What did you think? I really liked the people, the director, and the hospital is unoppsed. But I just don't hear a lot about the program through the grapevine. Mostly hear about Kaiser, UCLA, and White.

 

[elizabeth5863]

Yes! I interviewed at both. They're both great for different reasons. I really, really like the director at Santa Monica and the residents were very nice and seemed very sharp. Down sides to the program are that they rotate at a lot of different hospitals, even though their main hospital is Santa Monica. They also have to do a real surgery rotation with UCLA surgery residents at the VA (not pleasant). On the other hand, it looks like you get great training.

White Memorial is amazing. It's in East L.A. almost 100% hispanic population. hospital is newly renovated (all rotations at one hospital). they have a very strong department at the hospital, alhtough not totally unopposed. residents were also super nice, semed very happy. first year is hard there, but cameraderie seems really strong among the residents. the residency directors were also very, very nice and had been there for a long time.

i would go to both of these interviews if you still can.

Hi ttjan,

Unfortunately, I'd have to choose between one or the other. I wish I hadn't gone on as many Midwest interviews so that I could do more CA interviews... esp. since my family lives in L.A. county... Darn it!!! Oh well... if you had to choose between White Memorial or UCLA - Santa Monica, which one would you choose to interview at?

(Also, did you get any impression that UCLA Santa Monica residents are unhappy? Or is it there some tension between the residents there and those at Kaiser and I'm getting the misleading information when the programs speak negatively about each other?)

I also have to choose between USC - California Medical Center and Long Beach Memorial... have you heard anything about these programs? Such hard choices...

I start my Northern California interviews next week (for two weeks) and then my Southern California interviews after that (for two weeks). I'll post my impressions as I do my interviews.

Thanks a bunch ttjan! You've been a great help! Who knows... we might end up being colleagues at the same residency program!

 

[elizabeth5863]

What did you think? I really liked the people, the director, and the hospital is unoppsed. But I just don't hear a lot about the program through the grapevine. Mostly hear about Kaiser, UCLA, and White.

I'm interviewing there in early January. I'll share my thoughts then. Sounds like you've found a program you really like! I haven't found the program that best fits me yet although there are features that I like at various programs.

 

[ttjan]

Hi ttjan,

Unfortunately, I'd have to choose between one or the other. I wish I hadn't gone on as many Midwest interviews so that I could do more CA interviews... esp. since my family lives in L.A. county... Darn it!!! Oh well... if you had to choose between White Memorial or UCLA - Santa Monica, which one would you choose to interview at?

(Also, did you get any impression that UCLA Santa Monica residents are unhappy? Or is it there some tension between the residents there and those at Kaiser and I'm getting the misleading information when the programs speak negatively about each other?)

I also have to choose between USC - California Medical Center and Long Beach Memorial... have you heard anything about these programs? Such hard choices...

I start my Northern California interviews next week (for two weeks) and then my Southern California interviews after that (for two weeks). I'll post my impressions as I do my interviews.

Thanks a bunch ttjan! You've been a great help! Who knows... we might end up being colleagues at the same residency program!

I would interview at White Memorial over UCLA Santa Monica. The commuting back and forth to various hospitals at UCLA seems difficult to me. L.A. is not the best place to be doing that. Also, even though UCLA Santa Monica is "unopposed," there's a lot of interface with internal medicine and all the various specialties at UCLA, which are pretty hardcore from what I've heard. Basically, I don't know if the Famly Medicine residents are as respected as the IM residents. At White, although there are IM residents, word is that the Family Medicine residency is the stronger one. I really, really liked White Memorial.

Interestingly, I got the impression the UCLA residents were really happy. One of them did some Kaiser bashing though. so maybe there is something between them. I'll let you how my kaiser interview goes.

REgarding USC california vs. Long Beach. I hear pretty good things about both. If it were me, I'd probably go with USC California based on where it is (more central) vs Long Beach which is south and not really where I want to live. having said that, I think Long Beach might have a stronger reputation.

I also wish you tons and tons of luck and can't wait to hear what you think about all of these programs. Maybe we will end up at the same program!!!!

ps: I think you mentioned something about northern california. i have a friend at the petaluma program. he loves it there.

 

[elizabeth5863]

I heard through the grapevine that residents at UCSF don't do a lot of procedures. Is this true? Has anyone interviewed there and been told this? (Wish I had known about this before buying tickets... I wonder if they've made improvements regarding procedural training since the last year).

 

[windcold]

RCRMC residents are very nice and happy, so are the faculties. I did not have chance to talk to many residents in kern.

Hi windcold,
Do you know what the residents at RCRMC and Kern are like to work with? Almost every fp residency will have FMGs; most of the ones I've worked with in the various rotations in med school were really smart and cool to hang around. I just wanted to know what their personalities are like and if they are happy with their choice of program. Thanks!

 

[alas]

Hey guys, I just found this website. I'm currently a 3rd yr resident in Family Practice in Southern California. At this time, I'm going to choose not to say where, but for a little info, I am a grad of both a US college and US medical school.

Now, as for where to interview, well, I interviewed up and down the state because of "reputations". Martinez was excellent, and procedure orientated. Salinas and San Jose and Modesto were excellent for the same reasons. Modesto even has a personal chef for the residents- crazy! I did not rank these programs because I wanted to be in Southern California. I ended up ranking (as my #1) a program I believed had the best rep (excellent training, and program rep alone is now opening up doors for jobs) and the best residents- I did a sub-i there and essentially wanted to be as smart as the residents I worked with.

Now, as for Southern California, here's some low-down:
-you can check how many DOs and FMGs are in these programs on their official website
-Spanish-speakers are definately a plus for all of these programs...
Kern- filled with FMGs and some DOs
Fresno- filled with US grads mainly, but in Fresno
UCLA- programs had some problems a few years ago which seem to be resolved. I've heard the residents are quite happy there.
Kaiser Woodland Hills- happy residents, easier residency, unopposed
Kaiser LA- happy residents, very good rep, respected by other specialties
Kaiser Orange COunty- happy residents, some driving around Orange County
Whittier PIH- Some dropouts, good rep, some DOs
White Memorial- very good rep, must speak Spanish, lots of procedures, you will work hard
USC-San gabriel- Used to only interview FMGs, almost lost funding a few times
USC California Hospital- good OB, seems to have a lot of DOs and FMGs, good training
Long Beach- all MDs, very good rep, good training, nice location
Kaiser Riverside- easy program
Kaiser Fontana- good rep
Scripps- academic, happy in FP clinic, but ?treatment by other specialties
Northridge- good rep, happy residents
Riverside County- FMGs and DOs
Pomona- MDs, Dos, quite a few FMGs, happy, not intense
Ventura- very good rep, very hard residency

Hope that answers some questions.

 

[elizabeth5863]

Hey guys, I just found this website. I'm currently a 3rd yr resident in Family Practice in Southern California. At this time, I'm going to choose not to say where, but for a little info, I am a grad of both a US college and US medical school.

Now, as for where to interview, well, I interviewed up and down the state because of "reputations". Martinez was excellent, and procedure orientated. Salinas and San Jose and Modesto were excellent for the same reasons. Modesto even has a personal chef for the residents- crazy! I did not rank these programs because I wanted to be in Southern California. I ended up ranking (as my #1) a program I believed had the best rep (excellent training, and program rep alone is now opening up doors for jobs) and the best residents- I did a sub-i there and essentially wanted to be as smart as the residents I worked with.

Now, as for Southern California, here's some low-down:
-you can check how many DOs and FMGs are in these programs on their official website
-Spanish-speakers are definately a plus for all of these programs...
Kern- filled with FMGs and some DOs
Fresno- filled with US grads mainly, but in Fresno
UCLA- programs had some problems a few years ago which seem to be resolved. I've heard the residents are quite happy there.
Kaiser Woodland Hills- happy residents, easier residency, unopposed
Kaiser LA- happy residents, very good rep, respected by other specialties
Kaiser Orange COunty- happy residents, some driving around Orange County
Whittier PIH- Some dropouts, good rep, some DOs
White Memorial- very good rep, must speak Spanish, lots of procedures, you will work hard
USC-San gabriel- Used to only interview FMGs, almost lost funding a few times
USC California Hospital- good OB, seems to have a lot of DOs and FMGs, good training
Long Beach- all MDs, very good rep, good training, nice location
Kaiser Riverside- easy program
Kaiser Fontana- good rep
Scripps- academic, happy in FP clinic, but ?treatment by other specialties
Northridge- good rep, happy residents
Riverside County- FMGs and DOs
Pomona- MDs, Dos, quite a few FMGs, happy, not intense
Ventura- very good rep, very hard residency

Hope that answers some questions.

Hi alas,
Thanks so much for your input! It was very helpful. Too bad you can't tell us where you're at for residency so that I can look more into that particular program If you don't mind sharing where you're at, maybe you can PM me?

Anyway, now that I've been on some California interviews, here's what I think:

UCSF - excellent reputation but not much procedural training; residents say that this is one weakness of the program. You don't even get training in ACLS, ALSO, etc. which was very surprising to me. Residents don't know how to run the codes since there are other people doing this.

Contra Costa - Martinez - I like this program but the call schedule is horrendous; they are trying to make call more team-based now since residents are working way too hard and some were unhappy on my interview visit. When interns are on call with the senior, the senior is usually busy covering the ICU so the intern is left to manage most of the other admissions and problems on the floor. The intern I talked to said she doesn't even know about other residents' pts on the floor b/c of the registrar system - this is very problematic and now I can see why having an inpt team may be more convenient than the registrar system. They don't even have a handout for pts on the floor (their CC; dx, problem list, things that need to be done for the pt), which would make call so much easier. But they are working on this and I'm pretty certain it will be better by the time the new interns come. Not much opportunities to teach b/c of the registrar system. Not very appealing for me since I want to become faculty and teach someday.

San Jose O'Conner - nice location, faculty and residents are friendly, students who did rotations here seemed to like it. I thought inpatient sit down rounds was bad; one resident didn't give a tight presentation and rambled on for 30 minutes on a pt and I can't believe the faculty didn't even interject and ask for the pertinent positives. I'm worried about the quality of the teaching on the inpt service but other students said the didactics are good. (I didn't get to attend noon conference and see what it was like).

Merced - excellent faculty but the residents seemed weak. Mostly FMG's, 2 US grads. I don't care where people go for med school - it can be in the US or outside of the country - but when a resident doesn't know a pt when he's the designated presenter at morning report; that bothers me. On inpt sit down rounds, the faculty presented the pts to us applicants and asked questions of the residents. It seemed bad... why not let the residents present??? Are they that bad that they didn't want the applicants to hear the presentations? I think that faculty is very strong but since it's in Merced, I don't think it attracts a lot of US grads. They're building a new hospital and UC Merced just opened last year so hopefully many years from now, this program will become much better and more well known. I'd consider going to this program if I were looking for a program 5-10 years from now but, for now, it is not a good choice for me. My significant other would have a tough time getting a job in this area too.

San Joaquin - Stockton - I LOVE this program! I didn't expect to like it at all and thought about cancelling this interview, since there were mostly FMG's. However, I'm glad I gave this place a chance. The faculty and the residents were very good. The presentations and teaching are stellar. The residents here gave the best presentations I've seen so far compared to all the other fp programs; it was not just one resident who was good - it seemed like they were all good. They're also cool to hang out with as well. (Btw, I attended morning report, inpt sit down rounds and bedside rounds, as well as noon conference - all were optional but I wanted to see what the teaching was like). I felt like I was in the university, academic setting instead of at a community hospital because of the excellent teaching. This is a hard residency program but the residents feel very prepared. Downside: not as many US grads, so I might feel a bit out of place. This is also a hard place for my boyfriend to get a job in his field. The reputation isn't as good but I wish it was. (I know it's bad to choose programs based just on prestige but I wish this place was more prestigious. It deserves to be).


I'd like to hear what other people think about the California programs. It's hard to get the complete picture of a program by just being there for one day. I'm sure that my interview experience at the program might be completely different from other people's experiences.

So far, after being on 13 interviews, I haven't found the "perfect" program for me yet. Nothing that made me jump and say "That's it! That's the program for me!" Owww.. my poor wallet.

 

[elizabeth5863]

Hey guys, I just found this website. I'm currently a 3rd yr resident in Family Practice in Southern California. At this time, I'm going to choose not to say where, but for a little info, I am a grad of both a US college and US medical school.

...(excellent training, and program rep alone is now opening up doors for jobs)....

Hi alas,

Now that you're a 3rd year resident, have you found that it is extremely impt to provide documentation of your experience when looking for jobs? At one of my interviews, a resident said that you need to provide documentation of the different procedures you've done to get hospital privileges when applying for jobs - i.e. type of procedure, how many times you've done each procedure, etc.

UCSF, for instance, has an excellent reputation but not as many opportunities for procedures. San Joaquin - Stockton is not prestigious but residents get a lot of procedural training. You mentioned in your post that program reputation helps in getting a job... so if you'd had to choose between a program with lots of procedural training vs. one that is not but more prestigious, what would you pick?

Thanks in advance for your help!

 

[thedman888]

Hey guys, I just found this website. I'm currently a 3rd yr resident in Family Practice in Southern California. At this time, I'm going to choose not to say where, but for a little info, I am a grad of both a US college and US medical school.

Now, as for where to interview, well, I interviewed up and down the state because of "reputations". Martinez was excellent, and procedure orientated. Salinas and San Jose and Modesto were excellent for the same reasons. Modesto even has a personal chef for the residents- crazy! I did not rank these programs because I wanted to be in Southern California. I ended up ranking (as my #1) a program I believed had the best rep (excellent training, and program rep alone is now opening up doors for jobs) and the best residents- I did a sub-i there and essentially wanted to be as smart as the residents I worked with.

Now, as for Southern California, here's some low-down:
-you can check how many DOs and FMGs are in these programs on their official website
-Spanish-speakers are definately a plus for all of these programs...
Kern- filled with FMGs and some DOs
Fresno- filled with US grads mainly, but in Fresno
UCLA- programs had some problems a few years ago which seem to be resolved. I've heard the residents are quite happy there.
Kaiser Woodland Hills- happy residents, easier residency, unopposed
Kaiser LA- happy residents, very good rep, respected by other specialties
Kaiser Orange COunty- happy residents, some driving around Orange County
Whittier PIH- Some dropouts, good rep, some DOs
White Memorial- very good rep, must speak Spanish, lots of procedures, you will work hard
USC-San gabriel- Used to only interview FMGs, almost lost funding a few times
USC California Hospital- good OB, seems to have a lot of DOs and FMGs, good training
Long Beach- all MDs, very good rep, good training, nice location
Kaiser Riverside- easy program
Kaiser Fontana- good rep
Scripps- academic, happy in FP clinic, but ?treatment by other specialties
Northridge- good rep, happy residents
Riverside County- FMGs and DOs
Pomona- MDs, Dos, quite a few FMGs, happy, not intense
Ventura- very good rep, very hard residency

Hope that answers some questions.

there are actually a lot more DOs and FMG in programs that u mentioned
northridge has DO, so is ventura, fyi

 

[chibihamsta]

"So far, after being on 13 interviews, I haven't found the "perfect" program for me yet. Nothing that made me jump and say "That's it! That's the program for me!""

Me too! I've been on 8 interviews and have not found the perfect combo of location, cost of living to salary ratio, curriculum strengths, call schedule, EHR, etc. Good luck, Elizabeth!

Regarding the "Kaiser-LA not following the 80hr work week" rumor:
I heard the opposite from residents, there are things such as "protected sleep time" and "baby calls" there. As a PGY 2 or 3, you will be working 40hr/wk, with "plenty of time for other things like, shopping.." as one resident put it. That said, I don't know if they were talking about the entire three years or only certain rotations with an easy workload.

 

[elizabeth5863]

Hi chibihamsta,

Thanks for the info on Kaiser-LA. I guess I'll have to visit it to find out more.

Good luck on finding your "perfect" program too!

I found 1 program I liked after 14 interviews but I think everyone wants to go there too. Darn... I have some more interviews, so I'm hoping to find some more that are I like. So far, it's been rather disappointing.

 

[mcindoe]

Btw, I'm glad you were impressed by UCLA - Santa Monica. I almost canceled my interview there b/c a Kaiser resident told me that people at UCLA - Santa Monica were unhappy. However, she didn't tell me why.... Do you know how many pts on average UCLA - Santa Monica residents admit overnight when they are on inpatient medicine/fp? Did they mention what call was like? Thanks.

i think it should be known something that i have learned on the interview trail that will affect those interested in ucla-santa monica that wasn't mentioned at the interview. while they did tell us that ucla IM residents rotate at santa monica hospital, what i've learned is that because the new hospital at ucla is opening this year and everything is being moved over into the new facility, the new hospital has fewer beds than the current one, and thus ucla is planning on having more of their residents do rotations at santa monica hospital once the move takes place to compensate for the smaller patient volume at their new hospital. this will have a ripple effect on the family practice program, as there will be a whole lot more of the ucla IM residents over there than there were previously. however, i heard that santa monica hospital is expanding too, so it might not be a big deal, but i thought it should be mentioned, especially for those who are seeking programs that are "unopposed" or are wary of doing their training at a place expecting to go through a big transition/adjustment because of logistical issues. it probably will be more of a headache for the PD's but it could also detract from the experience for the residents.

 

[alas]

Regarding the "Kaiser-LA not following the 80hr work week" rumor:
I heard the opposite from residents, there are things such as "protected sleep time" and "baby calls" there. As a PGY 2 or 3, you will be working 40hr/wk, with "plenty of time for other things like, shopping.." as one resident put it. That said, I don't know if they were talking about the entire three years or only certain rotations with an easy workload.[/QUOTE]

For god's sake, you don't choose a residency program on the number of hours you work, unless you're only interested in having as easy a time as possible during residency. (And, at least at my program, we definately prefer people who are interested in learning, could have gone into other fields of medicine but are choosing family medicine because of genuine passion about this career choice, etc). By now, there are NO residencies who work you more than 80 hours a week, esp. not in Family Practice. I had only one week during intern year where I hit 80 hours, and that was when we were still doing call during medicine (its changed). Intern year averaged 70, second year was about 50-60, and third year is 40-50.

How did I choose my residency program?
a) The residents and attendings were so insanely smart that I wanted to become them.
b) The reputation is incredible- even people across the nation had heard of my program and my program director
c) Even though I am not at a "county" hospital, a large percent of my entire patient population has turned out to be spanish speaking blue-collar workers for whom I am thier first physician. They love the continuity of care and the fact that I speak Spanish. You can find this patient population EVERYWHERE in california, especially if you can learn medical spanish (which is all i speak).
d) The camaraderie is incredible- even residents/attendings/nurses with kids show up to the parties.
e) I felt like I belonged. The only way to get this feeling is by either doing a rotation or at least doing a second look which involves not just touring but actually hanging out with people, going out to dinner with them, etc. Stuff to NOT concentrate on: number of hours worked. We had one medical student come interview who ONLY asked about hours, and asked about it persistently to EVERY resident she met. She did not care about ANYTHING else, and actually looked bored when other aspects of the program were discussed. That is a great way to leave a sour taste in everyone's mouth.

There is a "right" program for everyone...but as you're realizing, a lot of programs resemble a lot of other programs. Its a matter of finding where you fit and where you think the education and training are at a level high enough that, when you're out there on your own after residency, you won't have to refer out to the specialists for everything and you'll have the confidence to handle most cases on your own.

 

[alas]

By the way, I am leaving for an international elective tomorrow- three weeks in a medical camp in a rural village in a third world country. I guess that's something else you may want to consider- a program where the residents and attendings are interested in making a difference somewhere in the world- whether its the homeless here in america or poor people around the world.

Anyways, good luck to all of you!

 

[elizabeth5863]

For god's sake, you don't choose a residency program on the number of hours you work, unless you're only interested in having as easy a time as possible during residency. (And, at least at my program, we definately prefer people who are interested in learning, could have gone into other fields of medicine but are choosing family medicine because of genuine passion about this career choice, etc). By now, there are NO residencies who work you more than 80 hours a week, esp. not in Family Practice. I had only one week during intern year where I hit 80 hours, and that was when we were still doing call during medicine (its changed). Intern year averaged 70, second year was about 50-60, and third year is 40-50.

I worked over 80 hrs/wk for 2 weeks during my 4 weeks as a sub-I. I didn't mind it since I was getting a lot of responsibility and the training was good. But by the end of my 4th week of inpatient family medicine, I was so sleep deprived I could barely even admit patients or do my rounds as efficiently; everything took me twice as long to do. This is where mistakes can be made and patient care can be compromised.

Although programs technically aren't supposed to allow residents to go over the 80 hr/work week, it does sometimes happen. I was told that the time I spend waiting for a patient to come at night doesn't count as part of the hrs I spend working even though I busted my butt off from 11 p.m. - 4 a.m. but had an interval before that (i.e. 6:30-11 p.m) when pts weren't coming at all.

I feel that everyone wants excellent training and everyone wants to become a competent doctor so that we don't have to refer to specialists, but when I see residents at my interviews who are bitter and complaining and who seem to be regretting their decisions, that is something I have to take into consideration.

There is a fine line between excellent training (where you are working hard and doing a lot) and over-working (to the point where your ability to function and think critically are impaired and patient care is compromised).

How did I choose my residency program?
a) The residents and attendings were so insanely smart that I wanted to become them.
b) The reputation is incredible- even people across the nation had heard of my program and my program director
c) Even though I am not at a "county" hospital, a large percent of my entire patient population has turned out to be spanish speaking blue-collar workers for whom I am thier first physician. They love the continuity of care and the fact that I speak Spanish. You can find this patient population EVERYWHERE in california, especially if you can learn medical spanish (which is all i speak).
d) The camaraderie is incredible- even residents/attendings/nurses with kids show up to the parties.
e) I felt like I belonged. The only way to get this feeling is by either doing a rotation or at least doing a second look which involves not just touring but actually hanging out with people, going out to dinner with them, etc. Stuff to NOT concentrate on: number of hours worked. We had one medical student come interview who ONLY asked about hours, and asked about it persistently to EVERY resident she met. She did not care about ANYTHING else, and actually looked bored when other aspects of the program were discussed. That is a great way to leave a sour taste in everyone's mouth.

There is a "right" program for everyone...but as you're realizing, a lot of programs resemble a lot of other programs. Its a matter of finding where you fit and where you think the education and training are at a level high enough that, when you're out there on your own after residency, you won't have to refer out to the specialists for everything and you'll have the confidence to handle most cases on your own.

It helps to hear how you chose your program....
but it's still difficult for me because but many of the programs I've interviewed at offer strong training; I've also felt like I fit in with the residents and felt like I belonged...
but there are itty bitty things that nag me - i.e. not having a dictation service when you're in clinic, not having an EMR, not having resources that would allow you to communicate with non-english speaking pts quickly (I don't speak spanish unfortunately), 2 weeks of vacation each year (when this program is a county hospital - although faculty and residents are supersmart), not in a location where my boyfriend can get a good job, the list can go on and on and I can find things that are wrong with each and every program. (And I'm sure that they can find weaknesses in my application as well).

So... when it comes time to rank... which is not too far away.... I'm still stuck

 

[MDWoochie]

My first post...

Has anyone been to UC Davis, Sutter, or Long Beach?

I have these interviews next week, just looking for thoughts...

 

[ttjan]

For god's sake, you don't choose a residency program on the number of hours you work, unless you're only interested in having as easy a time as possible during residency. (And, at least at my program, we definately prefer people who are interested in learning, could have gone into other fields of medicine but are choosing family medicine because of genuine passion about this career choice, etc). By now, there are NO residencies who work you more than 80 hours a week, esp. not in Family Practice. I had only one week during intern year where I hit 80 hours, and that was when we were still doing call during medicine (its changed). Intern year averaged 70, second year was about 50-60, and third year is 40-50.

.

Hours are important and there are programs that do not adhere to the 80 hr work week. In my opinion, it is important to consider hours and schedules because resident burnout is real.

 

[ttjan]

My first post...

Has anyone been to UC Davis, Sutter, or Long Beach?

I have these interviews next week, just looking for thoughts...

Haven't heard anything but would be interested to hear your comments afterwards. Good luck!

 

[chibihamsta]

Alas, you can't assume that just because an applicant is asking about work hours that she/he is concerned about working too hard. The question goes both ways. Maybe the person wants to know how busy a rotation is because he/she wants to get the most out of it. I asked residents at each program I applied to which rotations they came the closest to working 80 hrs/week because it's one more objective piece of information I can use to compare programs.

And on a side note, just because someone values their quality of life does not mean they love FM any less or that they are taking the easy way out. Why would you be in medicine in the first place?

FYI, there are still plenty of programs that violate the 80hr work week, though they will not advertise it for obvious reasons.

 

[ttjan]

Alas, you can't assume that just because an applicant is asking about work hours that she/he is concerned about working too hard. The question goes both ways. Maybe the person wants to know how busy a rotation is because he/she wants to get the most out of it. I asked residents at each program I applied to which rotations they came the closest to working 80 hrs/week because it's one more objective piece of information I can use to compare programs.

And on a side note, just because someone values their quality of life does not mean they love FM any less or that they are taking the easy way out. Why would you be in medicine in the first place?

FYI, there are still plenty of programs that violate the 80hr work week, though they will not advertise it for obvious reasons.

Nicely put.

(If you are reading this Alas, can you reveal where you are a resident?)

 

[secretwave101]

Asking about the 80 hour thing is smart, in my opinion. There's two reasons why it's important:

1. The 80 hour mark is now generally accepted as the point of diminishing returns on education. After 80 hours per week for weeks on end, you aren't likely to have any sort of "passion" for FM or any sort of patient. You're also likely to make errors.

2. Work hour regulations are being more consistently enforced. There are still numerous programs that are flying under the radar, but there are also a number of them that are suffering the consequences of taking that approach. The last thing you want as an R-2 after all your effort is for the residency to lose accreditation. It's VERY tough to transfer into another program as an R-3.

Bottom line: You're better off in a program that takes work hour regs seriously...and those programs probably won't insinuate negative things about your work ethic just because you ask about it.

 

[deleted6669]

Yup. That's what they told me in my interview 2 years ago. Great program. But you have to ask yourself if all that will be relevant to you when you graduate from residency... and for some it will, but for others, it detracts from other things they could train in. I mean, elizabeth5863's post was my impression also. I haven't figured out if their approach makes sense or not. I remember their telling me about getting training to do bowel resections. First impression: Bad Ass... but upon meditation... If you have good academic standings and could get into any specialty you want to, reflect on why you're going into Family Medicine.

I totally agree with Secretwave, especially with the inpatient/outpatient assessment. For me, no question that Ventura was a curve buster, 3 std devs out there... But sometimes, it's lonely at the top.

when and if I go back to medschool it will probably be for "full scope fm" and I would hope to go to a program like natividad, contra costa, ventura, etc for great procedural training. those of us who want jobs like the one to follow still need that from a fm residency:
ILIULIUK FAMILY AND HEALTH SERVI
ILIULIUK FAMILY & HEALTH SVCS
34 LAVELLE COURT
UNALASKA, AK 99685-0000

Benefits: Full medical, dental and vision insurance for provider and family, 403b retirement plan, Life and disability insurance, 27 paid days per year for vacation and sick leave, 10 days paid CME and $3,000 - $5,000 CME allowance. 6 paid holidays.


Services: Full Service Community & Primary Health Care, ER with extended stay care (800 air miles to nearest hospital located in Anchorage, AK)


Hospital Privileges: 1 week on and 2 weeks off/ on call rotation 1 in 3 calls


Salary: MD-FP $130,000 to 145,000 plus production bonus



Site Description: Located in the Bering sea at the SW corner of the Aleutin Island chain, this Island has a population of 4,300 and serves up to 10,000 during the fishing season, clinic has 11,000- 12,000 visits per year. Beautiful island with mountains and 44 miles of roads. All public buildings are 10-11 years old and the clinic is newly remodeled. The weather is wet, windy and moderate with an average temperature of 30 to 60 degrees. Excellent schools, library, community center with pool and ball field, 2 museums, focus on the arts with an arts council. Great fishing, hiking and out door sports.


Site Locale: Frontier/Island


Medical Staff: 1 Full time MD-FP1 Part time MD-FP (visiting)


Specialist(s) on Staff: 1-NP, 1-PA 2-Mental Health Providers3-Lab/X-ray Tech


Nursing Staff: 1-LPN/1-LPN-EMT3,1-Case Manager RN, 2-RN, 1-MA-EMT2

 

[elizabeth5863]

Has anyone done rotations at either Ventura or Contra Costa? Besides the registrar system, how are the two different from each other?

 

[deleted6669]

Has anyone done rotations at either Ventura or Contra Costa? Besides the registrar system, how are the two different from each other?

haven't rotated at either although I have researched both EXTENSIVELY(as well as natividad) and have some ties to both ventura county and natividad.
these are all great programs. contra costa tends to attract more female applicants for some reason. ventura is probably more liveable in terms of finding affordable housing, etc as contra costa has a lot of bay area related expense associated with it.
natividad would be high on my list as well. you don't need to speak spanish there as they have lots of translators but it would certainly help.

 

[elizabeth5863]

haven't rotated at either although I have researched both EXTENSIVELY(as well as natividad) and have some ties to both ventura county and natividad.
these are all great programs. contra costa tends to attract more female applicants for some reason. ventura is probably more liveable in terms of finding affordable housing, etc as contra costa has a lot of bay area related expense associated with it.
natividad would be high on my list as well. you don't need to speak spanish there as they have lots of translators but it would certainly help.

When I interviewed at both of these programs, I had the impression that Ventura places more emphasis on surgery than Contra Costa. Did anyone get this impression as well?

 

[deleted6669]

When I interviewed at both of these programs, I had the impression that Ventura places more emphasis on surgery than Contra Costa. Did anyone get this impression as well?

my understanding is that is true. but then again ventura fm residents do more surgery than any other fm program I know of

 

[elizabeth5863]

Is the training at Contra Costa and other county hospitals really that different from the training at Kaiser? I like the procedural training that you get at Contra Costa and at county hospitals in general, but I don't know if I'm prepared to handle the work load at those places. Whereas at Kaiser, I know that the work is more manageable but I didn't like how some of the people I met said, "what family doctor is going to do ER or hospital medicine?!" I actually want to be able to do both ER and hospital medicine though if I end up living in a very small town. So... what to do???

Btw, has anyone interviewed at UC San Diego yet? My parents are pressing me to cancel that interview since it's quite far from where we live and is a hassle to get there. I'd appreciate any thoughts/opinions. Thanks.

 

[deleted6669]

I have some ties to a kp family medicine residency as well. it is VERY different. I wouldn't do a kp residency unless you just plan on doing outpt fm with very few peocedures forever.

 

[elizabeth5863]

I have some ties to a kp family medicine residency as well. it is VERY different. I wouldn't do a kp residency unless you just plan on doing outpt fm with very few peocedures forever.

The PGY-3 who interviewed me at Kaiser be doing mostly hospital work with a few days of clinic. Do you know if there is a difference in quality and rigor of training among the various kaiser programs?