Should I be doing an SMP?

[dexorbit]

Hello!

Thank you for taking the time to read through my post and offering your advice. I I am seeking some guidance on how to proceed with my path to medical school. I have applied and got accepted to an SMP program in Boston for this fall with a partial scholarship. I was so sure of me wanting to attend this program but now I am having some doubts to the point where I am not so sure if this is the right path for me moving forward. Because of a few factors. a.) the high risk high reward of SMPs b.) cost (SMP + medical school) and c.) time (36 y.o. now) if I do SMP, I will be 38 when I start medical school (if everything goes to plan).

About me: I am an RN since 2009 and did a second bachelor's degree in Biology and graduated in 2015. All of my pre-requisites for medical school were taken between 2010-2013, so its almost over 10 years old now. My CGPA: 3.50. Science GPA: 3.46. I started with a 3.9 GPA during my 1st year of second bachelors but have decreased after getting:
C in trigonometry,O-Chem I,
B- in Gen. Chem II, O-chem II, Biochemistry, Microbiology lab.
The rest of my pre-reqs were an A and upper division classes were either an A, A- or B.

I did 4 semesters of research between two professors when I did my second bachelor's degree (2012-2014). Had one poster presentation spring of 2015 at my school. No publications. Shadowed 1 doctor in 2012 for about a week.

I have not taken the MCAT since I struggled focusing on studying for it in the past due to anxiety and burn out during my second bachelor's degree. I did therapy and counseling last year (2022) which helped me in dealing with my anxiety. I stopped working as an RN from 2012-2014 to focus on school. Although I did per diem work a few times. Started working full time in 2015 at an outpatient oncology clinic. I really liked my work at the outpatient clinic so much that I have been doing it ever since and pushed my desire to become a doctor on the side to live life, earn money, travel and see if being a doctor is what I really want to do still with my life after being in the workforce during that time. Fast forward to 8 years later the desire to become a provider has never gone away and I do not want to ignore it anymore because I don't want to live life with regrets.

My question is: Do I need to take an SMP or study for the MCAT and do well on it and apply for medical schools next cycle?

Thank you!

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[theoceanman]

First, disclaimer, I hope I don’t sound rude or anything. Online forum posts can only carry so much emotion haha.


Well, my perspective is this: are you deadset on MD or is DO an open option for you? Your current GPA is fine for a good chunk of DO schools, given you do fine on the MCAT, but places you below average at most, if not all, MD schools.

Also, why not PA/NP? Why specifically medicine that’ll take almost another decade to work towards? You should have a specific answer to this question and be able to clearly identify the fine line between all of those career choices.

Also I’m concerned with your anxiety, although I cannot speak on your behalf, you have further examinations during medical school such as COMLEX (if you go DO) and USMLE (if you go MD, but you usually take this as a DO on top of COMLEX to be more competitive for residency programs, especially specializations). These exams go from Step 1 to Step 3 or levels for DO, with Step 1/Level 1and Step 2/Level 2 being high stakes relatively speaking as although Level 1/Step 1 are pass fail, the score you get on Step 2/Level 2 may determine what specialty you end up in by determining you as “competitive” on top of many other factors. You may face similar crisis issues where you have an extremely high workload for your pre-clinical years and rotation years and you also have to study so much for these exams. Are you prepared for that or are you concerned that your anxiety will kick in because these moments will be much more stressful than studying for the MCAT for certain?

In addition to all this, you have to be mission-fit with your EC’s through these steps/questions:
1. Have you shadowed multiple physicians, especially in primary care, and are they recent?

2. Your research may not be accounted for properly and may give little merit given how long ago these experiences were. Do you have any research opportunities near you perhaps? If not, then it’s fine overall.

3. Do you have good community service hours and what populations do you see yourself serving? Is it rural, underserved, urban, or a combination of all three? Why? What made you choose that? Those are all questions you should an answer to, especially given your career as an RN.


Overall, I would ask myself those questions above. If DO is perfectly fine in your book, then you can start preparing for the MCAT now and make sure that you meet the course requirements for DO schools (the odd 6 credits of literature or the random 3 credits of humanities, etc.). If you’re aiming for MD, you may require an undergraduate level post-bacc to raise that sGPA as well as study for the MCAT during those 2 years to ensure that you get that 4.0 and 510+. For both paths, you will need to community service experiences, shadowing experiences, meaningful EC’s, and of course, a good personal statement on why medicine. Cheers!

 

[Just D.O. it]

Do I need to take an SMP

My CGPA: 3.50. Science GPA: 3.46

No. You definitely do not. Your GPA is not so low as to warrant an SMP.

Study for the MCAT and do well.
Honestly there's not much specific advice we can give you until you've taken the MCAT. Don't take this to mean you should rush towards the MCAT. Do everything you can and take as much time as you need to maximise your score. We will be able to offer much more specific and actionable guidance once you have that number.

 

[CoolBreezes]

Because of a few factors. a.) the high risk high reward of SMPs b.) cost (SMP + medical school) and c.) time (36 y.o. now) if I do SMP, I will be 38 when I start medical school (if everything goes to plan).

The SMP could be helpful in presenting more recent evidence of your ability to handle rigorous coursework, but you could achieve the same for a lot less money by going the DIY route. You seemed to have worked during your second bachelors, would you need to do the same during the SMP or a DIY post bacc?

I did 4 semesters of research between two professors when I did my second bachelor's degree (2012-2014). Had one poster presentation spring of 2015 at my school. No publications. Shadowed 1 doctor in 2012 for about a week.

No need for more research unless it is truly your passion; what you have is plenty for all but a couple dozen schools. The limited and dated shadowing seems like a more useful activity to spend your time beefing up. Your clinical work certainly counts for a lot but it doesn't help you answer convincingly "why do you want to become a doctor?"

All of my pre-requisites for medical school were taken between 2010-2013, so its almost over 10 years old now. My CGPA: 3.50. Science GPA: 3.46. I started with a 3.9 GPA during my 1st year of second bachelors but have decreased after getting:
C in trigonometry,O-Chem I,
B- in Gen. Chem II, O-chem II, Biochemistry, Microbiology lab.
The rest of my pre-reqs were an A and upper division classes were either an A, A- or B.

People with far worse GPAs have gotten accepted but you should make sure that your overall trend looks convincing of your ability to succeed when the level of difficulty rises. Allow yourself a lot of time to prepare for the MCAT as there's a good amount of chemistry/biochemistry on that exam.

 

[spiritedMD]

Hello!

To give you some context, I'm a 33-year-old, non-trad, reapplicant, and currently an SMP student with an A at a private MD school. So, I'm a little biased in favor of SMP. Wanted to put that up front.

I feel like I was in your shoes just a year ago, so I thought I would just share my two cents.

@aquafied's is on-point, because the question "why medicine" is important for you to articulate clearly. Having said that, knowing you've been in this field for a long time, I don't think it will be a problem to articulate what it is that draws you to medicine. Stick to it and build your application around it. I stand behind all other points brought up. On top of good sGPA, you need at least 50+ hrs of shadowing, regular and long-term volunteering(I recommend 100+ hrs), and some research(though some schools don't require it).

A big issue was time/cost for me(I'm sure it is for you as well). I also was accepted to a program in Boston, but I ended up choosing somewhere else because my current program allowed students to apply this cycle. However, knowing your program is two years, you shouldn't have to rush things as I did. (three volunteering gigs, 120+ hrs of shadowing, built leadership exp, while maintaining a 3.9 within the last 8 months). My body and mind took a toll, but it was worth it! Take your time, seek advice, and build your application from the bottom up in a coherent way.

As a non-trad, one thing I've realized is that my "non-trad" life experiences only work in my favor when I'm as competitive as a 20-year-old, fresh out of college student who's been getting ready for this since age 5. The great thing about the SMP was that it had the resources to get me there, which proved invaluable. When I finally became "competitive", I found that my "non-trad" life experiences had become my asset and not a liability.

Lastly, I 100% agree with living life without regrets. After not getting a single interview last cycle, SMP was my last resort, and I'm glad I made it. Am I drowning in debt? Yes. Am I 10+ years behind everyone else? But I get to serve the very people that got me into medicine AS a physician if everything else goes well. I'm proud of myself for not giving up, and this year will be a year that I will look back on when things get rough and say, "I've got this."

Whatever you decide, I wish the best for you!

 

[esob]

To be fair, if one of my kids wanted to go to medical school AND wanted to have either some semblance of a normal life or crush all of their tests in preparation for something competitive, I would recommend an SMP, even if their stats were good enough with it. So many people in my class had done either an SMP or had some other experience that gave them a head start (PT, PharmD, etc) that it raised the bar for what was expected. I was in a minority of students that hadn't already done an anatomy wet lab. A lot of the basic science that the average med student is seeing for the first time is simply a refresher for those who have done an SMP.

 

[Just D.O. it]

I would recommend an SMP, even if their stats were good enough with it.

This is preposterous.

Do you understand that SMPs often assign letter grades to classes that med students need the equivalent of a C in, and expect a 4.0 or close to it? A student who might have been fine as a med student might very well not be able to reach the standard of being a straight A student in those classes and tank their chances of ever going to medical school. And for what exactly? A $70k pre-study course for M1?

An SMP is not designed to evaluate or "enrich" an average student. An SMP is a high intensity opportunity for a student with hard to change middling GPA to prove that they have changed themselves enough to be an academic superstar.

 

[esob]

This is preposterous.

Do you understand that SMPs often assign letter grades to classes that med students need the equivalent of a C in, and expect a 4.0 or close to it? A student who might have been fine as a med student might very well not be able to reach the standard of being a straight A student in those classes and tank their chances of ever going to medical school. And for what exactly? A $70k pre-study course for M1?

An SMP is not designed to evaluate or "enrich" an average student. An SMP is a high intensity opportunity for a student with hard to change middling GPA to prove that they have changed themselves enough to be an academic superstar.

Again, I noted in specific situations, it could be advantageous. It's true, if you go to a P/F institution you can get away with a C-level grade, but you're going to get cranked on step exams and shelf exams. OFC, my experience is anecdotal, but my opinion remains unchanged. We were provided with our histograms for most of the preclinical exams. The separation between the 50th percentile and the 75th was often no more than a few questions. It's true that there are probably more efficient ways to prep for preclinical, but I'm not sure most people have the discipline to do it outside of a structured environment.

 

[My Name is Blakeeee]

I did an SMP, made a 4.0 and honestly I wouldn't recommend it if you can get away from doing it. It was a lot harder than med school b/c of knowing I had to be perfect or close to it. You're GPA doesn't warrant the need for it in my opinion. Knock the MCAT out, that will open doors at a much cheaper price. Also, do more volunteering.

But of course, the choice is truly yours, know you must make 3.7 or above for an SMP for it to not work against you. Even then, SMP doesn't guarantee admission to medical school. Good luck.

 

[RespectTheChemistry]

Again, I noted in specific situations, it could be advantageous. It's true, if you go to a P/F institution you can get away with a C-level grade, but you're going to get cranked on step exams and shelf exams. OFC, my experience is anecdotal, but my opinion remains unchanged. We were provided with our histograms for most of the preclinical exams. The separation between the 50th percentile and the 75th was often no more than a few questions. It's true that there are probably more efficient ways to prep for preclinical, but I'm not sure most people have the discipline to do it outside of a structured environment.

Preparing for pre-clinical is a moot point if not doing near-perfect in the SMP prevents them from getting into medical school at all. I think people perusing the forum need to appreciate how high risk SMPs can be in addition to the potential rewards. It's also crazy expensive.

 

[esob]

Preparing for pre-clinical is a moot point if not doing near-perfect in the SMP prevents them from getting into medical school at all. I think people perusing the forum need to appreciate how high risk SMPs can be in addition to the potential rewards. It's also crazy expensive.

It's a fair point, and, it should be noted that I do not have any personal experience with SMP's. I do have several friends that completed them and didn't seem to make them out to be as awful as posited here, but perhaps the experience varies from program to program. Honestly in the years I've been on SDN I can't recall ever getting a negative vibe about SMP's until this thread. Perhaps we should create a "share your experiences" thread that I could anonymize in the same way we do for the confidential expert advice forum

 

[Just D.O. it]

I can't recall ever getting a negative vibe about SMP's until this thread.

I don't think me or Mr. Chemistry are intending to give a negative vibe about SMPs either. I think they are a great option for the way they are generally used, which is to compensate for a hard to repair low GPA.

Your approach to use them as a way for students, who already have good stats, to familiarize themselves with the material and gain an edge going into medical school is an extremely novel one that I have not seen discussed before, and I suppose I've made my personal take on the strategy clear. I definitely understand where you're coming from, but the risk is just too drastic and it's too expensive compared to the potential benefits.