Should I drop an away rotation?

[bceagle411]

Very simple question. Ive done one away rotation and havent received a grade back yet but got what I felt was good feedback from attendings/residents. I then did my home rotation and got an H. I have an away rotation scheduled for september that I want to cancel since I feel like there is no benefit to me doing it (its not in my top 5) and there is the downside of getting a meh SLOE from them. But the whole thing centers on how good my grade is at the first away, which I may not receive until next week, and thus giving this away around 3 weeks notice I wont be there (plus I have to set up housing).

I dont want to be blindsided by a Pass from my first away for some reason and then be stuck without another away to show I am better than that..

I am a strong applicant based on boards, research, and clinical grades

Im a bit lost. Any recs?

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[John Red]

I”ll bite.

Short answer: Cancel now. Would give program and other students opportunity to fill slot.

Long answer: it depends. How competitive an applicant are you? MD or DO? Any red flags on the app? From the region or other aways in the region? Truth is it seems like you made up your mind and are seeking affirmation, so cancel and pass on the opportunity to others.

PS: not to insert paranoia but grade doesn’t correlate with SLOE as much as you’d like it to. Last cycle there was an H grade awarded with a bottom 1/3 SLOE. Rare? sure, but it happens. Much more common is H/HP and meh.

 

[Rekt]

Very simple question. Ive done one away rotation and havent received a grade back yet but got what I felt was good feedback from attendings/residents. I then did my home rotation and got an H. I have an away rotation scheduled for september that I want to cancel since I feel like there is no benefit to me doing it (its not in my top 5) and there is the downside of getting a meh SLOE from them. But the whole thing centers on how good my grade is at the first away, which I may not receive until next week, and thus giving this away around 3 weeks notice I wont be there (plus I have to set up housing).

I dont want to be blindsided by a Pass from my first away for some reason and then be stuck without another away to show I am better than that..

I am a strong applicant based on boards, research, and clinical grades

Im a bit lost. Any recs?

Might as well wait the week. It isn't nice to other students, but you'll be blacklisted from the program regardless if you do it tomorrow or wait an extra week. I'm actually of the opinion that 3 SLOEs looks much better than 2, but N=1, plus it's another month of EM. Also agree with the above. Plenty of unhappy applicants last year finding out they had bottom/middle SLOEs with HP/H/"A" grades.

 

[bceagle411]

I”ll bite.

Short answer: Cancel now. Would give program and other students opportunity to fill slot.

Long answer: it depends. How competitive an applicant are you? MD or DO? Any red flags on the app? From the region or other aways in the region? Truth is it seems like you made up your mind and are seeking affirmation, so cancel and pass on the opportunity to others.

PS: not to insert paranoia but grade doesn’t correlate with SLOE as much as you’d like it to. Last cycle there was an H grade awarded with a bottom 1/3 SLOE. Rare? sure, but it happens. Much more common is H/HP and meh.

Appreciate the response!

MD with a >245 step, top 25% of class with a pretty good AOA shot, teaching award, 2 first author pubs (albeit non-EM but general IM topic that comes into the ED all the time), and some solid EM EC's and obvious passion (Former EMS), and some pretty unique EC's that make good interview talking points.

Ive been told Im a pretty good applicant by my home program, so I just dont want to mess the cycle up on something like a bad SLOE. And to your point yes there can be a bad SLOE but this program states that their grade and feedback pretty much reflects what will be on the SLOE.

Im gonna try and call the registrar today and see if they tell me what the grade is over the phone, and if not my thought is to email the clerkship director (who knows my plight but I just emailed him a week ago) again this week, but I dont want to annoy him.

 

[bceagle411]

Might as well wait the week. It isn't nice to other students, but you'll be blacklisted from the program regardless if you do it tomorrow or wait an extra week. I'm actually of the opinion that 3 SLOEs looks much better than 2, but N=1, plus it's another month of EM. Also agree with the above. Plenty of unhappy applicants last year finding out they had bottom/middle SLOEs with HP/H/"A" grades.

Appreciate the response, I agree that letting them know today vs friday probably doesnt make a difference. And yes I would be unhappy if my HP/H turned into a bottom sloe (its a pretty tough program so id be fine with a middle 1/3rd). Really my goal is this program or my home program, so I dont see much of a benefit from the 3rd SLOE, but I also want to get other interviews because who knows what the heck happens in the match (If my home program said they would rank me to match (which they hopefully will) I'd cancel the other away right now)

 

[BoardingDoc]

you'll be blacklisted from the program regardless if you do it tomorrow or wait an extra week.

This isn't necessarily true. I know people who matched at programs where they dropped a Sub I late in the game. Blacklisting is certainly possible though. Happened to me after I dropped an away at Denver to do one at my first choice instead.

 

[anon6134]

(If my home program said they would rank me to match (which they hopefully will) I'd cancel the other away right now)

1.) Drop this thinking right now unless the PD is your dad
2.) As above, your grade doesn't necessarily correlate to your SLOE-a HP could literally be anywhere from bottom 1/3-top 1/3 and you have no way to know this
3.) Presumptively you will be your strongest during your third month of EM which will most likely lead to a stronger SLOE. I would suggest going through with the third month and working hard for your strongest SLOE of the group. It's only August and you have plenty of time to throw in the towel later this year

 

[GonnaBeADoc2222]

Just drop it. Who cares? You have good stats and 2 SLOEs.

Take a break during September.

 

[bceagle411]

I dropped it. Thanks everyone for your input!

 

[AlgernonMed]

I dropped a rotation two years ago as well. Ended up being for the best, but I didn’t get offered an interview there afterwards. I also didn’t have the stats that you do, so that probably played a factor in it as well.

 

[bceagle411]

I dropped a rotation two years ago as well. Ended up being for the best, but I didn’t get offered an interview there afterwards. I also didn’t have the stats that you do, so that probably played a factor in it as well.

Makes sense, I probably wont apply to the program in anticipation of not getting an interview. Especially because right now it looks like I am going to have to call and confirm it is dropped because it still is showing up as "offer confirmed" on VSAS. Ugh theres always something

 

[gamerEMdoc]

I wouldn't sweat this decision. 2 Sloes is all you need. There isn't any perceived benefit of getting a 3rd according to PD survey data, unless for some reason you think you bombed one of the two and you aren't planning on submitting one.

I do agree with some of the sentiment above. Honors doesn't equal great SLOE, there are some places that give out over 90% of their students honors. So you can't always trust the grade to correlate with the SLOE. But that being said MOST of the time, Honors does correlate with at least a top 1/3 sloe, and often a top 10 sloe. Not always the case, but usually. Along those lines, HP grades often lead to top 1/3 or mid 1/3 SLOEs.

 

[SamtheWise]

Appreciate the response!

MD with a >245 step, top 25% of class with a pretty good AOA shot, teaching award, 2 first author pubs (albeit non-EM but general IM topic that comes into the ED all the time), and some solid EM EC's and obvious passion (Former EMS), and some pretty unique EC's that make good interview talking points.

I'm glad I matched into EM when I did. I was talking to some of the rotators at my program recently, and man, they're pretty much the people who went into urology 5 years ago. "Well I wanted to do Surg Onc, but then I rotated there as a med student and hated the hours, and I have sort of a weak application for good gen surg programs anyway, I'm only senior AOA, kinda bombed step 1 (only got 260, was hoping for 270), and yeah, I have 5 publications but they're all in JAMA or the Lancet, none are in EM journals, sure I'm applying to all the west coast county programs, but I'd just be honestly happy to match anywhere, even Hennepin".

 

[gamerEMdoc]

I'm glad I matched into EM when I did. I was talking to some of the rotators at my program recently, and man, they're pretty much the people who went into urology 5 years ago. "Well I wanted to do Surg Onc, but then I rotated there as a med student and hated the hours, and I have sort of a weak application for good gen surg programs anyway, I'm only senior AOA, kinda bombed step 1 (only got 260, was hoping for 270), and yeah, I have 5 publications but they're all in JAMA or the Lancet, none are in EM journals, sure I'm applying to all the west coast county programs, but I'd just be honestly happy to match anywhere, even Hennepin".

Its not that competitive. Competitive people do go in to EM, they always have. But as a whole, it's still not all that competitive compared to the most competitive specialties.

 

[TooMuchResearch]

I'm not sure why a program would "blacklist" you for canceling a rotation. No showing? Sure, blacklist away. But professional people cancel professional things all the time, and it's not like they depend on you for the ED to work.

Also, when I think blacklist, I think more along the lines of the PD or program coordinator letting everyone on their PD/coordinator email list know of a great atrocity you've committed, not one place taking a hard pass.

 

[Rekt]

I'm not sure why a program would "blacklist" you for canceling a rotation. No showing? Sure, blacklist away. But professional people cancel professional things all the time, and it's not like they depend on you for the ED to work.

Also, when I think blacklist, I think more along the lines of the PD or program coordinator letting everyone on their PD/coordinator email list know of a great atrocity you've committed, not one place taking a hard pass.

They get the impression that you're accepting a rotation at another shop than theirs, which is almost always actually the case. Why would a PD waste their time interviewing them if they've already shown disinterest. It's quite well known that dropping a rotation somewhere significantly reduces your chances at an interview. Obviously program dependent, but it's an exception to get an IV after, not a rule.

 

[bceagle411]

They get the impression that you're accepting a rotation at another shop than theirs, which is almost always actually the case. Why would a PD waste their time interviewing them if they've already shown disinterest. It's quite well known that dropping a rotation somewhere significantly reduces your chances at an interview. Obviously program dependent, but it's an exception to get an IV after, not a rule.

yea im not even going to apply to them in residency because if they connect the dots and find out i just did vacation thsat month as a way to protect my app i certainly wont be ranked