Should I Leave My Newborn Baby Behind To Go Off To Ross??

[Pigg-O-Stat]

Boy am I caught in a dillemma! So much so that I am appealing to the masses for fresh input. I have dedicated the past 2.5 years of my life (I am 28) busting my butt to prepare for Med School. I have not recieved any acceptances and finally made the decision to go to Ross in the Caribbean. A few days later, I found out that my fiancee is pregnant. We live in AZ and she is a 1st year med student. If I stay here to be with them, I may miss this window of opportunity in my life (and I am very unhappy with my current career). If I leave, I will barely see my child for the first two years of his/her life!! Please offer some fresh pearls of wisdom!!!!

ADAM in AZ

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[mshheaddoc]

Well if you only applied one year, you could always reapply next year? You are in a difficult place which you want to persue your dreams but you also want to be there for your family. I know 28 isn't that old for medical school. And one year wouldn't be the end of the world especially as your family would want and need you there ...

I can only tell you what I would do and that isn't fair as you need to do what is best for you.

But look at your options, go off to the carribbean for a few years, reapplication isn't the end of the world, look at MD and DO schools, and try to fill in some of the holes in your application while reapplying if you decide to stay in the states.

 

[Pigg-O-Stat]

The soonest matriculation date available at this point is Fall of '08. This means I would wait 2 more years to begin, and there are only 2 schools (U of A and Midwestern) that would allow me to be in the same state as my fiancee and child. That means putting all of my hope into two schools, with a high likelyhood of facing yet another year of waiting. Keep in mind that I began this endevor in '04, am very unhappy at work, am completely prepared scholastically and mentally to begin Med school. I could begin at Ross in May and be back in the states in less than 2 years.

 

[mshheaddoc]

I am aware of the medical school situation which is why I said it would be up to you.

Also you'll be back in the states, but the only state on the west coast that allows rotations is California and most of the other rotations are on the east coast which could further keep you from your family.

Everyone has their own priorities which is why I would not want to be in your situation, as well as I don't know you whole situation. I am in a similar position in where I am almost 28, and where my husband ends up for residency will dictate where I apply. Most likely it will be only one school. And I'm trying my damnedest to do everything I possibly can to improve my application to get in. Otherwise I will have to put off medical school as well. SO yes, I can relate to what you are going through, but I myself wouldn't be able to leave my family for medical school because they need me as much as I need them. Others can and have succeeded, but my life is my family.

Which is why I said its hard to say what to do because I know many people who have only applied to certain schools because of family and I know others who were able to move. If you applied more broadly, your wife could apply for a transfer her 2nd year (just another option I thought of).

But if you really want to be a doctor and feel that you can't wait a few more years than go for Ross. You have the opportunity to become a doctor and no one will fault you for trying to reach your dreams.

 

[jw83]

Hey Adam,

Did you apply to Midwestern for this coming school year? If you haven't, they accept primary applications through Jan 1st and secondaries until sometime in the winter I believe.

I'm a first year at Midwestern and have been really impressed with the school so far. I would encourage you to apply here before you go off to Ross and leave your family.

Anyway, good luck with your decision.

 

[Pigg-O-Stat]

Thank you both-

MS - Yes, i've considered the option of her transfering. Of course, there are compications around every corner. She is in Naturopathic Medical School. There are only 5 accredited ND programs in North America, and I've compiled a list of every MD or DO school within a 60 mile radius of these. There are 15 options, including Yale, Columbia, NYU, Cornell... Rest assured, I am not particularly confident of my chances of admission - nevertheless, this remains an option.

jw - Yes, I've applied to Midwestern for '06 and was rejected, and met with director of admissions, Jim Walter. He advised me to take two specific classes (which I have recieved A's) and retake MCAT, which I have registered for Jan 27th. I asked him about applying for '07 at this point and he basically said it I would have a slim chance because it only allows my app to be considered for their last round of admissions. That would mean going throught the entire admission process and expense for one small shot at one school - tough to justift. Great school though- It was actually my first choice all along.

 

[MJB]

Keep in mind that A.T. Still U is opening in Mesa soon...actually taking apps now...

So, there's another option.

I can't answer for you, but leaving that situation behind would be very hard for me. Not only leaving the kiddo, but leaving the wife in med school with the kiddo.

 

[BeatrixKiddo]

Oh. Nevermind.
I thought you meant Ross the clothing store, I was about to say what kind of question is that, HELL YES!

 

[DoctorMom78]

Thank you both-

MS - Yes, i've considered the option of her transfering. Of course, there are compications around every corner. She is in Naturopathic Medical School. There are only 5 accredited ND programs in North America, and I've compiled a list of every MD or DO school within a 60 mile radius of these. There are 15 options, including Yale, Columbia, NYU, Cornell... Rest assured, I am not particularly confident of my chances of admission - nevertheless, this remains an option.

jw - Yes, I've applied to Midwestern for '06 and was rejected, and met with director of admissions, Jim Walter. He advised me to take two specific classes (which I have recieved A's) and retake MCAT, which I have registered for Jan 27th. I asked him about applying for '07 at this point and he basically said it I would have a slim chance because it only allows my app to be considered for their last round of admissions. That would mean going throught the entire admission process and expense for one small shot at one school - tough to justift. Great school though- It was actually my first choice all along.

The first three years of a child's life are the most important. That is when the parent-child bond is formed and when all of the incredible milestones take place...the first smile, the first laugh...Those are things you can never get back. I could never leave my children to go to medical school, but I know that some people have and it has worked for them. Plus, I don't think it is really fair to leave your fiancee with a newborn while she is trying to go to medical school. I know if you were my soon-to-be husband, the wedding would be off if you did that to me. (Sorry ) I don't know how she feels about it, but I think it will ultimately cause a lot of tension in your relationship. I don't know much about Ross, but I have not heard great things about the medical schools in the Caribbean. My advice to you would be this: Retake the MCAT, take some more classes if you need to raise your GPA, get more clinical or research experience if you need it, and the apply next year for 2008. Truthfully, what is another year? Keep in touch with Midwestern and make sure you submit your application on the earliest day possible. I don't envy the position you are in. I understand what it is like to feel the pressure to get on with your life and pursue your dream, but another year really won't make that big of a difference and Ross and all the other schools will still be there in a year. Congratulations on your baby!!!!! When you hold your child in your arms for the first time you will know you made the right decision. Trust me, I have four children and I can't wait to have more. I am sure that everything will work out for you; just try to give it enough time so that things will all fall into place. Good luck with everything!

BTW...Isn't there an ND school in CT. What about UCONN?

 

[Pigg-O-Stat]

Good stuff people - this is why I rely on you!

Amazing that in all of my research I failed to acknowledge COM-Mesa - 5 minutes from my house! I only recall hearing about them about a year ago when there was talk of some strange new 'supposedly online' medical school. But there website looks legit. I will take a campus tour and meet with a counselor this week.

Drmom- She is very supportive and understands that this is my dream. My concern is that if I pass up the opportunity to do this now, that it will never happen, and I will be resentlful and unhappy in general. I know that as a physician, I will be more fulfilled emotionally and be a better provider for my family. I know its only a year... well two years really, unless I don't get in, and then its three, ummm and then if I don't get in, its four. Very uncertain path. My passion for my current career is gone, but the desire to be a doctor is strong right now... I have heard excellent things about Ross by the way. Tough life choices.

There is an ND school called Bridgeport in CT - not one of the better ones. The best are in Tempe, AZ and Seattle.

 

[lilnoelle]

The first three years of a child's life are the most important. That is when the parent-child bond is formed and when all of the incredible milestones take place...the first smile, the first laugh...Those are things you can never get back. I could never leave my children to go to medical school, but I know that some people have and it has worked for them. Plus, I don't think it is really fair to leave your fiancee with a newborn while she is trying to go to medical school. I know if you were my soon-to-be husband, the wedding would be off if you did that to me. (Sorry ) I don't know how she feels about it, but I think it will ultimately cause a lot of tension in your relationship. I don't know much about Ross, but I have not heard great things about the medical schools in the Caribbean. My advice to you would be this: Retake the MCAT, take some more classes if you need to raise your GPA, get more clinical or research experience if you need it, and the apply next year for 2008. Truthfully, what is another year? Keep in touch with Midwestern and make sure you submit your application on the earliest day possible. I don't envy the position you are in. I understand what it is like to feel the pressure to get on with your life and pursue your dream, but another year really won't make that big of a difference and Ross and all the other schools will still be there in a year. Congratulations on your baby!!!!! When you hold your child in your arms for the first time you will know you made the right decision. Trust me, I have four children and I can't wait to have more. I am sure that everything will work out for you; just try to give it enough time so that things will all fall into place. Good luck with everything!

BTW...Isn't there an ND school in CT. What about UCONN?

I second this. Though you weren't really planning on getting pregnant (I'm guessing) you are, and so now you have a responsibility, both to your fiance, who will need you more than ever right now (I can't imagine having a baby in med school) both for your help and your support and to your baby. I know you don't want to put your life on hold, but this is something worth holding your dreams off for.

I hate to be the deliverer of bad news, but it may be best to wait to go to med school till your fiance/wife is done with school. Can you imagine what it will be like for your family, for your wife to be in rotations (working something like 70 hour weeks) you to be in med school, and trying to raise a child?

I'm not sure what the answer is, cuz you'll have a similar situation when your wife is in residency. Honestly, there is no easy answer. Its just a decision you'll have to make, but now, instead of making it just for you, you have another person to think about, a person that will depend on you and your wife completely, and needs you very much.

I feel like I'm "preaching". Thats not my intention, and I'm glad I'm not in your shoes, though in a way, my husband is. I'm in med school, we have two young children, and my husband has no college education. Though he has some desire to go to med school eventually, (he works in the medical field as a tech now) but isn't going to be able to even go to undergrad till I'm done with med school. If he goes to school, he'll be 27 when he starts undergrad, 31 when he goes to med school, and 35 when he completes.
Good luck with your decision. I'm sorry if I was a downer.

 

[Pigg-O-Stat]

Your not a downer at all Noel.

I forgot to mention that my fiance's mother is planning to move in with us to help out. This is huge!

As far as having a responsibility to my family, I couldn't agree more. But what is more important to my family in the long term... being physically present for the majority of the infancy, or acquiring a stable carreer with which I can provide for my family financially and set a positive example for my children?

As far as waiting for her to finish... she will be busy during clinical years, busy during residency, busy establishing a pratice, busy as a new physician. It doesn't slow down. Thus, when is the right time??

 

[lilnoelle]

Your not a downer at all Noel.

I forgot to mention that my fiance's mother is planning to move in with us to help out. This is huge!

As far as having a responsibility to my family, I couldn't agree more. But what is more important to my family in the long term... being physically present for the majority of the infancy, or acquiring a stable carreer with which I can provide for my family financially and set a positive example for my children?

As far as waiting for her to finish... she will be busy during clinical years, busy during residency, busy establishing a pratice, busy as a new physician. It doesn't slow down. Thus, when is the right time??

Well, having fiance's mother move in is a completely different picture. So you won't need to wait till she's done with school, but I still would wait an extra year (or as long as you have to) to stay with your family. Going to Ross means missing out on your baby's first year (or 4 if you stay at Ross all four years). After the first two sleepless months, the first year is the most fun part I think. I'd like to just keep having babies to keep them at that age... problem is they cost a lot, are a huge responsibility, and they get older.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

My concern is that if I pass up the opportunity to do this now, that it will never happen, and I will be resentlful and unhappy in general. I know that as a physician, I will be more fulfilled emotionally and be a better provider for my family. I know its only a year... well two years really, unless I don't get in, and then its three, ummm and then if I don't get in, its four. Very uncertain path. My passion for my current career is gone, but the desire to be a doctor is strong right now... I have heard excellent things about Ross by the way. Tough life choices.

Why do you think that if you don't do it now, it won't happen? Lots of people postpone medical school for all sorts of reasons and still wind up doing it when they can. In the big picture, starting school two years later isn't a big deal. Being away for the first two years of your kid's life is a big deal, however. Abandoning your kid because you can't wait two additional years is irresponsible, imo. Your first obligation is to your future child. Your needs come later -- that's how kids work.

If you hate your job, get a new one for the next two years.

 

[Sainttpk]

Boy am I caught in a dillemma! So much so that I am appealing to the masses for fresh input. I have dedicated the past 2.5 years of my life (I am 28) busting my butt to prepare for Med School. I have not recieved any acceptances and finally made the decision to go to Ross in the Caribbean. A few days later, I found out that my fiancee is pregnant. We live in AZ and she is a 1st year med student. If I stay here to be with them, I may miss this window of opportunity in my life (and I am very unhappy with my current career). If I leave, I will barely see my child for the first two years of his/her life!! Please offer some fresh pearls of wisdom!!!!

ADAM in AZ

Going to Ross is not worth it. You would be better off waiting another year or two to get into an American DO or MD school. Don't waste your time going there. In your haste to make a decision you may really regret your choice in the long run.

 

[Pigg-O-Stat]

Catgirl - Honestly, is it more irresponsible to leave behind a 1 year old or a two year old? What about a 2 year old and one on the way? Life brings many twists and turns that cannot be predicted, and many people look back in regret at failing to cease opportunities when they present themselves...

Also, it is easy to say 'get a new job'. I am not interested in a job. I need a career to provide for my family.

Saint - I, too was hesitant about Ross until I spoke with an alumnus of the school.For him, it was the best experience of his life, and he actually turned down DO acceptances to attend. He was able to start immediately and get back to the states within 16 months, and jumpstart his career rather than continue the pre-med game...

Rest assured, my fiancee and child are my first priority in this decision, and the sacrifice of being away would be for the long term benefit of the family...

And Beatrix - Yes, Ross clothing store is awesome - that would be a no-brainer!

 

[mrs.nia]

I am a 25 year old mother of two and plan to start my premed this fall. I can tell you that even though I'll be in my late 30s before I'm an MD, I would trade NOTHING for the time I've spent with my children. I agree with DrMom. You'll miss so much and regret the decision if you leave your baby. I also think no matter how understanding your babymomma is, there is a good chance over the next two years she'd grow bitter and resentful if you leave. Be a daddy, then a doctor. just my $.02

 

[QofQuimica]

My personal opinion on this is that when you have a child, you are no longer free to think of yourself first. Doing what is best for that child is now more important than doing what is best for yourself. The ideal situation is for a child to be brought up by two parents. It is not fair to your fiancee or her mom for you to decide that you'd rather go to Ross than raise your child, and most importantly, it is not fair for you to do this to your child. So I agree with noelle and the others who have said that you should physically stay with your family. Providing your child with material necessities is important, but it is a poor substitute for being there to help raise that child. If you leave now for medical school, your child will basically be like a stranger to you by the time you get back. It is bad enough when families are forced to be apart due to circumstances beyond their control (wars, catastrophes, etc.), or when families fall apart and one parent is left alone to raise the child. But I don't understand why anyone would willfully CHOOSE to have his child raised by one parent if there were any possible way of avoiding that. You talk about setting a good example for your child; what example do you think you would be setting by running off to Ross when you have other options open to you that would allow you to stay with your child? That child is not going to understand that Daddy was unhappy at work; s/he is only going to know that Daddy isn't around. I hope you will look more seriously into the options open to you in AZ that will allow you to achieve your goals while also being there for your child. Good luck and congrats in advance on becoming a dad.

 

[ShyRem]

Q, you and I totally agree. As a mother of two beautiful children, their needs come first. That is the choice I made when I became a parent.

Thus the reason I applied to med school at the ancient age of 38... and got slammed for it by several med schools.

 

[DoctorMom78]

My personal opinion on this is that when you have a child, you are no longer free to think of yourself first. Doing what is best for that child is now more important than doing what is best for yourself. The ideal situation is for a child to be brought up by two parents. It is not fair to your fiancee or her mom for you to decide that you'd rather go to Ross than raise your child, and most importantly, it is not fair for you to do this to your child. So I agree with noelle and the others who have said that you should physically stay with your family. Providing your child with material necessities is important, but it is a poor substitute for being there to help raise that child. If you leave now for medical school, your child will basically be like a stranger to you by the time you get back. It is bad enough when families are forced to be apart due to circumstances beyond their control (wars, catastrophes, etc.), or when families fall apart and one parent is left alone to raise the child. But I don't understand why anyone would willfully CHOOSE to have his child raised by one parent if there were any possible way of avoiding that. You talk about setting a good example for your child; what example do you think you would be setting by running off to Ross when you have other options open to you that would allow you to stay with your child? That child is not going to understand that Daddy was unhappy at work; s/he is only going to know that Daddy isn't around. I hope you will look more seriously into the options open to you in AZ that will allow you to achieve your goals while also being there for your child. Good luck and congrats in advance on becoming a dad.

I agree!

 

[mshheaddoc]

Catgirl - Honestly, is it more irresponsible to leave behind a 1 year old or a two year old? What about a 2 year old and one on the way? Life brings many twists and turns that cannot be predicted, and many people look back in regret at failing to cease opportunities when they present themselves...

Also, it is easy to say 'get a new job'. I am not interested in a job. I need a career to provide for my family.

Saint - I, too was hesitant about Ross until I spoke with an alumnus of the school.For him, it was the best experience of his life, and he actually turned down DO acceptances to attend. He was able to start immediately and get back to the states within 16 months, and jumpstart his career rather than continue the pre-med game...

Rest assured, my fiancee and child are my first priority in this decision, and the sacrifice of being away would be for the long term benefit of the family...

And Beatrix - Yes, Ross clothing store is awesome - that would be a no-brainer!

With your wife's limited options in practicing her ND as well as your barriers you will face as a Ross candidate coupled with what has already be said on this thread, you can see that most of us are leaning towards applying US and staying with your family.

Although you have talked with one Ross graduate, I have talked with foreign grads as well. And those down in the carribbean have good and bad things to say, the bad things mostly about clinical rotations, USMLE prep, and residency issues. The two students/graduates I know had nothing but negative things to say (and both did well in the program) and wish they would have reapplied here in the state (I also knew someone who wasn't a US citizen who went there - they said the same thing). I guess its who you talk to you in that regard. Ross's attrition rate is better than the other schools but it varies by semester.

I guess in a nutshell I also feel that you need to give the US a shot, maybe apply more broadly and improve your application. Many people have also taken the foreign med grad and ended up not completing. I hate to see you make that decision for one reason or another.

Best of luck and again, congrats.

 

[NonTradMed]

You're in a tough jam. But it seems to me like you want to start med school NOW because you are unhappy at your job and you don't want to stay in it for too long. I think you need to realize that medicine isn't an 'outlet' for your job frustrations. It will be there next year, and the year after that, and the year after that.

That said, my grandmothers both had a hand in raising me before the age of three. I even went to far as to live with my grandmother when I was two for a year. I think it's a cultural thing. In the US, its' a big deal to have nonparental family members assume full parental responsiblity, it's not such a big deal in China. I turned out fine. I have a great relationship with my parents (even live at home while I'm attending med school right now to save money).

I would disagree with people on these boards who say that the first three years are critical etc. I think the first three years are important in that a child needs a caring, nurturing someone to care for them, but that a baby isn't going to remember their dad not being there for them, however a young child will. My dad spent some time when I was in grade school in Canada and I can still remember his absence. I do not remember missing my parents at the age of two when they sent me to live with my grandparents. I grew up in loving environments, whether it was grandma or mom and dad, but I remember, as an older child, the absence of a parent. So I figure, if you have to be away from family for a couple of years, best to be when the kids are too young to be affected by it. Plenty of families in the world, because of jobs, do not see family members for extended periods of time, you need to make sure the sacrifices are worth it (i.e don't do it because you 'hate your job').

However, since you have a newborn, it may be better for you to stay for a while, not so much for the 'critical first year' so much as for the adjustment that your wife will have to make to her life. A newborn brings stress to the family. Try to avoid leaving your family at such a stressful period in their life. Once your family has adjusted to a schedule, then go to Ross. After all, they have several start schedules, pick a later one. Another strategy is to wait a year, get your improved application, see where you stand in terms of GPA/MCAT and see if you have a good shot at the AZ school. If you do, stay and apply to one of the AZ schools, if not, head to Ross. This way, you would have helped out with the family situation and you would be assured of spot in med school.

Btw, I decided to do med school in 2004, and even though I had the pre-reqs done back in college, I only began med school in 2006. My expired MCAT score and my job were major impediments to my application. I found I couldn't just send in my application, I had to retake the MCAT, which necessitated studying things I hadn't seen in four years while juggling a 50hr/week job I absolutely HATED. Somehow, I made it into our state's med school, so yeah, med school is not for people who want instant gratification, it may take years of planning and a lot of patience.

 

[mdh4569]

The first three years of a child's life are the most important. That is when the parent-child bond is formed and when all of the incredible milestones take place...the first smile, the first laugh...Those are things you can never get back. I could never leave my children to go to medical school, but I know that some people have and it has worked for them. Plus, I don't think it is really fair to leave your fiancee with a newborn while she is trying to go to medical school. I know if you were my soon-to-be husband, the wedding would be off if you did that to me. (Sorry ) I don't know how she feels about it, but I think it will ultimately cause a lot of tension in your relationship. I don't know much about Ross, but I have not heard great things about the medical schools in the Caribbean. My advice to you would be this: Retake the MCAT, take some more classes if you need to raise your GPA, get more clinical or research experience if you need it, and the apply next year for 2008. Truthfully, what is another year? Keep in touch with Midwestern and make sure you submit your application on the earliest day possible. I don't envy the position you are in. I understand what it is like to feel the pressure to get on with your life and pursue your dream, but another year really won't make that big of a difference and Ross and all the other schools will still be there in a year. Congratulations on your baby!!!!! When you hold your child in your arms for the first time you will know you made the right decision. Trust me, I have four children and I can't wait to have more. I am sure that everything will work out for you; just try to give it enough time so that things will all fall into place. Good luck with everything!

BTW...Isn't there an ND school in CT. What about UCONN?

take it from someone who's father went away to a foreigh school for the first 2 years of his life. I have had a very good life so far and not blaming anything on anyone at all, as a matter of fact imi following in my dads footsteps. However last year i decided on my own to go to a psychologist because of some adjustment issues i was experianceing (comeon im only 24). I enjoyed the experiance so much i still go to him today. We have talked about all sorth of life aspects and what makes a person who they are today. We have traced back some of my traits (good and bad) to the fact that my dad was in mexico from the age of 3 months to about 2 years old for medical school. Then he was in and out of the house from state to state for rotations for the last 2 years. DOnt get e wrong I have a good life and love my dad very much, but i dont think most realize the effects it could have on child developement, as minor as they may seem.

just my side of the picture


Its a tuff call for ya, good luck

not to scare ya but i remember my father saying that when all his buddies were relaxed and studying, not only was he trying to study, but he had to worry about me, my mom, money issues, and the stress and responsibilities of having a family back in the states, even though my grandmother was helping out

 

[Haemulon]

I agree with Q. I can feel for you because I too am a non-trad, a little older than you. I have two brand new babies and a 2 year old, with a wife as well of course. I honostly do not see how you can swing going to the carrib for 2 years and leaving your family behind. Especially since you will be newlyweds (assuming that your getting married soon). You would be leaving both your new wife and your new child, which is a tough sell. You of course need to evaluate your situation for yourself and make your own decisions. That being said, as much as I want to become a physician and follow my own dreams, I would sacrifice that (or at least postpone it) for my family. Thats just me though. My children and wife are the most important things in the world to me. To be with them and contribute to their lives is just more important. Now being in medical school, even in the same area, requires time commitments that will take one away from their family a great deal. This is true. But to be completely absent for years is something I could not do. And you may also want to re-think having your mother-in-law live with you for an extended period. It is entirely reasonable for a couple, even if both are working, to raise a single child without having parents move in with them. Its scary at first to be sure, but you just have to man up and accept your responsibilities.

 

[Sarikate]

I don't have children yet, but I have to agree with most of the above posters; do whatever you can, including taking an extra year for applications, to stay with your fiancee and kiddo. It will be the best decision you'll likely ever make.

I applied to med school in '04 and didn't get in. I was so dejected that it took two years to jump back on the horse. I thought I was too old (will be 28 when I start), then realized that I was being a dork. This is my dream and I'll never be too old for it! I also happened to meet my fiance last year; never would have met him if I'd gone to med school when I thought I "should have" gone.

I'll be going to AZCOM next fall. I think you should hold out for it; it's an awesome school, tons of people with families and more non-traditional backgrounds; you'd fit right in. Hold out! Do it for your fiancee and newborn. Give them your precious time now because when you're in med school there will be little of it!

 

[Orthodoc40]

I'm agreeing 100% with Q here.

It isn't easy, but all of a sudden, you no longer come first, your family does. Once you get used to that principle, your decisions will be clear.
This doesn't mean giving up going to medical school, it just means re-working your priorities.

 

[AZCOMstudentdoc]

I am not supporting or discrediting anything brought up here so far. As a med student father of 2 school age boys I had to reflect upon much of this while I was applying. I am just offering-up another option.

What about moving everyone to Dominica?

I know your fiancee wants to be an ND, but at the core of it, she wants to be a physician; right?

Can't she still practice as an MD with the same principles and philosophies as an ND? Better yet, she could do so without the burden of said limitations in practice, etc.

With her background, she would surely be accepted, and you 2 could attend classes AND care for your baby TOGETHER; built-in study buddies and parents.

Just something to think about.

Best of luck to you in whatever you decide.

Try and figure out a way for you all to stay together though.

 

[Haemulon]

That is an interesting option, certainly viable it would seem. However I think many times individuals in a relationship do also need their own space as well. I love my wife, but I think that doing absolutely everything with her every minute of every day would start to cause friction after a while. Many people do better keeping work at work and home life at home life, with only minor intermixing of the two realms.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

Catgirl - Honestly, is it more irresponsible to leave behind a 1 year old or a two year old? What about a 2 year old and one on the way? Life brings many twists and turns that cannot be predicted, and many people look back in regret at failing to cease opportunities when they present themselves...

Also, it is easy to say 'get a new job'. I am not interested in a job. I need a career to provide for my family.

Saint - I, too was hesitant about Ross until I spoke with an alumnus of the school.For him, it was the best experience of his life, and he actually turned down DO acceptances to attend. He was able to start immediately and get back to the states within 16 months, and jumpstart his career rather than continue the pre-med game...

Rest assured, my fiancee and child are my first priority in this decision, and the sacrifice of being away would be for the long term benefit of the family...

And Beatrix - Yes, Ross clothing store is awesome - that would be a no-brainer!

Dude, what I mean and what you seem to be not getting is that you can get another job for the next two years while you improve your app and then matriculate in the US. You probably shouldn't leave your child at any time to go to Ross. If that means you can't be a doctor, you can't be a doctor. However, AZCOM told you what you need to do to be admitted there, and you're just whining about because it would take two extra years. Whatever. That's nothing. You're thinking about abandoning your child not because you want to be a doctor but because you're unwilling to delay your life by two measly years to go to school in the US. That's irresponsible and immature and whole host of other negative things.

 

[DDS/DMD]

Is ROSS that bad of a school? They came to Colorado for an informational session and I was quite impressed with them. My cousin graduated from ROSS and she practices internal medicine in Seattle. What do you guys think?
And as for the guy who is contemplating about going to ROSS, leaving behind your new wife and child, its a hard choice, I feel for you. Did you consider taking your son to ROSS? I heard they have a supportive program for non traditonal students, even daycare and elementary school. BTW, just my opinion, if my wife was in med school in the states, I would fully support her first getting through her curriculum, even if that means staying at your unhappy job a little longer. Think of how difficult it would be for her, esp in her first 2 years. And like everyone says, another year is no biggy~~!! If your credentials are close, apply in the states~!! Just my 2 cents~~!

 

[Non-TradTulsa]

Rest assured, my fiancee and child are my first priority in this decision, and the sacrifice of being away would be for the long term benefit of the family...

Aberkovi, honestly, I don't mean to be unkind, but I'm not assured at all. You're asking us for moral advice rather than factual advice - which is probably a bad idea on SDN - but what I see is that a number of people are telling you what you don't want to hear, and you seem determined to beat them into submission with arguments - it's a little counter-productive.

Some interesting points to me - your original post says that you have "made the decision to attend Ross" not that you are considering it. You haven't talked about conferring with pediatricians, child developmental specialists, whatever - about what the effect on your child will be if you are gone. You also didn't say anything about what your fiancee wants and how she feels about it.

I'm not married and don't have children so my advice has to be limited. I started medical school at age 44, however, so I know the clock is not ticking as loudly as you think it is. Frankly, even though I don't agree with Dr. Laura on many things, I would give you the "Dr. Laura" speech - you made a baby (and you and your fiancee knew how not to make a baby if you two had other priorities in life) and now the baby is your #1 priority in life for the next 18 years - period. That's not what I'm hearing. Bottom line to me: the baby comes first and it is your responsibility as the baby's parent to decide, along with your fiancee, how the baby would be affected by your being gone. Waiting another couple of years to be admitted in the US, putting up with an unhappy job for another couple of years, those are distant secondary considerations to what is best for the baby. You can decide to go to Ross - that's within your rights as a parent - but, to my mind, only if you decide that's what's best for the baby - not long-term, but now, during a very crucial period of development. Neither I nor anyone else here can help you much with such an intimate family decision. I do wish you good luck.

 

[notdeadyet]

As far as having a responsibility to my family, I couldn't agree more. But what is more important to my family in the long term... being physically present for the majority of the infancy, or acquiring a stable carreer with which I can provide for my family financially and set a positive example for my children?

Nowhere in the latter option is medical school required. You can provide for your family without being a doctor and set a hell of an example by sticking by the mother of your child.

I get an impression off this thread that you're looking for justification in heading to the Caribbean for two years with very questionable options for the following two years. Heading to Ross is the equivalent of being persona non grata for two years with no guarantee you'll be around for the next two.

Personally, I think you have to be very honest with yourself and ask whose needs you are going to put first: your wife and child's or your own. Unfortunatley, in this situation I don't think you're going to find a choice that will satisfy both.

 

[notdeadyet]

Incidentally, aberkovi, I'm impressed that you're going through the process of a decision rather than just bolting away from your responsibilities and thinking only of yourself. Many lesser men would have done just that.

 

[Pigg-O-Stat]

Let me be as straightforward as I can.

A man has a responsibility to provide for his family. Period. Its indocrinated in our primordial instinct. When a baby is on the way, a man only feels like a man when he can head out to the forest and come home with a fresh kill.
Women, on the other hand, are programmed to stay in physical contact with their offspring no matter what. These are facts of nature.

I am hearing a lot of emotional responses from Moms - and I appreciate the responses - to "stop thinking of yourself" and "put the child first". But what you need to understand is that, as a man, this IS how I put a child first. Going off to the Caribbean is not a vacation for me. It is 16 months of sacrifice to do my duty as a man and be the best provider that I can be. Not only from a financial perpective - but from an emotional perspective. Who can raise a child to be more healthy, a man who emminates success an fulfillment - or one who feels there is something missing in his life?

Incidentally to the poster who suggested that I consult a child development specialist... my fiancee is a child debvelopment specialist, and she supports the decision either way.

In general, this thread has been very helpful for me. I am not really looking to justify leaving the country for school, lilke some suggested - more playing devil's advocate to illicit responses representing the other side of the coin. The best input that I recieved was about the school in Mesa, by the way - They are still building but will be open this fall - I have an appointment with a counselor on Tues - Thanks.

As of now, I have devised a plan. I will retake the MCAT in January and apply to Midwestern, ASU and COM-Mesa as my first option. I will apply to the 15 other schools that are within a 60 mile radius of ND schools as a second option. And I will apply to Ross, and Maria and I will have to consider her taking some time off of her program to come down there with me, as a third option.

No matter what, I don't intend to drag this thing out much longer - I have been a pre-med long enough, and I don't intend to make a career out of it. A good life lesson for my fetus child - When you want something in life, get off your ass and go get it, you may not have the opportunity forever! -

Thank you all.

(a note to the future psychiatrists - please refrain from the drugstore psychoanalysis about being a man - I can already see it coming)

 

[lpressley130]

Aber:
I put off my dream for years in order to be there for my children. They're now old enough to begin to take care of themselves (18 and 20). I'm not saying you have to wait as long as I did, but you may want to consider taking the time to not only nurture the baby, but your fiancee as well. Besides, you're only 28 - you have time. It's great that you are making a list and checking it twice before you make your decision. I also think it admirable of you to consult others - but, ultimately the decision is yours. I hope all works out for you and your family!

 

[Law2Doc]

Is ROSS that bad of a school? They came to Colorado for an informational session and I was quite impressed with them. My cousin graduated from ROSS and she practices internal medicine in Seattle. What do you guys think?

It's fine if it's your remaining option-- Like all the high end offshore schools, they have their success stories and their failures. But if you plan to practice in the US, you generally have considerably more options and fewer hurdles if you attend school in the US.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

Let me be as straightforward as I can.

A man has a responsibility to provide for his family. Period. Its indocrinated in our primordial instinct. When a baby is on the way, a man only feels like a man when he can head out to the forest and come home with a fresh kill.
Women, on the other hand, are programmed to stay in physical contact with their offspring no matter what. These are facts of nature.

I am hearing a lot of emotional responses from Moms - and I appreciate the responses - to "stop thinking of yourself" and "put the child first". But what you need to understand is that, as a man, this IS how I put a child first. Going off to the Caribbean is not a vacation for me. It is 16 months of sacrifice to do my duty as a man and be the best provider that I can be. Not only from a financial perpective - but from an emotional perspective. Who can raise a child to be more healthy, a man who emminates success an fulfillment - or one who feels there is something missing in his life?

Incidentally to the poster who suggested that I consult a child development specialist... my fiancee is a child debvelopment specialist, and she supports the decision either way.

In general, this thread has been very helpful for me. I am not really looking to justify leaving the country for school, lilke some suggested - more playing devil's advocate to illicit responses representing the other side of the coin. The best input that I recieved was about the school in Mesa, by the way - They are still building but will be open this fall - I have an appointment with a counselor on Tues - Thanks.

As of now, I have devised a plan. I will retake the MCAT in January and apply to Midwestern, ASU and COM-Mesa as my first option. I will apply to the 15 other schools that are within a 60 mile radius of ND schools as a second option. And I will apply to Ross, and Maria and I will have to consider her taking some time off of her program to come down there with me, as a third option.

No matter what, I don't intend to drag this thing out much longer - I have been a pre-med long enough, and I don't intend to make a career out of it. A good life lesson for my fetus child - When you want something in life, get off your ass and go get it, you may not have the opportunity forever! -

Thank you all.

(a note to the future psychiatrists - please refrain from the drugstore psychoanalysis about being a man - I can already see it coming)

I'm sorry, but why did you start this thread if you weren't willing to listen to suggestions. As for the being a man cr@p, that seems like your issue, not ours. For example, you seem to think you need to be a doctor to be a man. Weird concept and not true.

As for following your dreams, all I'm trying to say, along with a lot of other posters, is that delaying your dreams for two years is not a big thing to do for a child. If anything, you're being irrational by assuming that you can't achieve your dreams if you have to wait until 2008 to go to medical school. It's also not a sentiment that many of us here in the nontrad forum relate to because lots of us postponed applying and matriculating for all sorts of reasons.

For practical advice about the Caribbean, you might want to check out www.valuemd.com. Students there have probably dealt with things like juggling a family and attending school offshore. One thing that you might consider is other Caribbean schools like AUC or SGU. Both schools are supposed to be on more developed islands, so they might be more conducive for bringing your family along.

 

[lilnoelle]

Let me be as straightforward as I can.

A man has a responsibility to provide for his family. Period. Its indocrinated in our primordial instinct. When a baby is on the way, a man only feels like a man when he can head out to the forest and come home with a fresh kill.
Women, on the other hand, are programmed to stay in physical contact with their offspring no matter what. These are facts of nature.

But aren't you already providing for your family? I guess we don't know enough about you to say what your current job is. If your working minimum wage at the mall, or have reason to think at your current job you will have trouble feeding, clothing, and giving your child a roof over its head, then I suppose going to med school is the best idea... although even then your child would be without food, clothing, and a shelter for the first four years of their life. (I realize thats an exaggeration.)

What I am saying is that if your in a hurry to go to med school so your child can live a more luxurious life than you currently can afford, your priorities for your family may not be on track.

Your child will most likely be fine with its mother and grandmother taking care of it. In fact, if you come back when your child is two years old, other than the fact that the child will not know you at first, she will be no worse for wear. You will be the one missing out on that first 2 years and I suppose if thats all right with you and your fiance is really ok with it (though I question the fact that she is) then go for it.
This comes from the "emotional mother". I'm more concerned with your fiance (believe me, she will want you around) and the fact that you will miss out on spending what I think is the most fun part of your child's life. Its so fun that both times my children got to be about 15 months old, I go on a baby craze and want another, just cuz my baby is no longer a baby anymore, (and honestly, a cooing baby is more fun that a screaming toddler.)

All of the above is more written to the first paragraph that I quoted from your recent post. Your plan to try to apply to the other schools is a good one and I applaud you, I would just encourage you to be willing to wait another year and try again if you don't get in the first time, and that second year, apply to Ross and go if you don't make it the second time.

 

[DoctorMom78]

Good stuff people - this is why I rely on you!

Amazing that in all of my research I failed to acknowledge COM-Mesa - 5 minutes from my house! I only recall hearing about them about a year ago when there was talk of some strange new 'supposedly online' medical school. But there website looks legit. I will take a campus tour and meet with a counselor this week.

Drmom- She is very supportive and understands that this is my dream. My concern is that if I pass up the opportunity to do this now, that it will never happen, and I will be resentlful and unhappy in general. I know that as a physician, I will be more fulfilled emotionally and be a better provider for my family. I know its only a year... well two years really, unless I don't get in, and then its three, ummm and then if I don't get in, its four. Very uncertain path. My passion for my current career is gone, but the desire to be a doctor is strong right now... I have heard excellent things about Ross by the way. Tough life choices.

There is an ND school called Bridgeport in CT - not one of the better ones. The best are in Tempe, AZ and Seattle.

Saying that she is supportive now is one thing. Saying she is supportive after being up all night with a screaming infant when she has a test first thing in the morning and you are off somewhere at school is another thing. If you have never had a child, you can't possibly imagine how difficult it can be at times. I know you said her mother was coming to help out, but it is not the same and I think she would ultimately resent you for it. She may be the most wonderful, supportive woman in the world, but she is also human and truthfully I think that it would be hard not to. (Sorry again.) Also, you said you were going to retake the MCAT in January. You are applying for 2007, correct? Most schools are not accepting the January MCAT and if you are waiting that long to apply then you probably don't have a really good chance of getting in. Maybe I am confused about your timeframe, but a lot of the schools deadlines are quickly approaching. So, you are a bit late for 2007 as it is. Good luck with everything!

 

[lilnoelle]

Saying that she is supportive now is one thing. Saying she is supportive after being up all night with a screaming infant when she has a test first thing in the morning and you are off somewhere at school is another thing. If you have never had a child, you can't possibly imagine how difficult it can be at times.

Ha, make that 3 months of staying up all night with a screaming infant. As I said, I can't imagine getting pregnant, having a newborn while in med school, but I know people do it. Who knows, maybe in a year, I'll want another one. hmmmmmmmmm unlikely.

 

[spicedmanna]

(a note to the future psychiatrists - please refrain from the drugstore psychoanalysis about being a man - I can already see it coming)

I wouldn't even think of it. What concerns me is that you can see it coming and the semi-defensiveness I note in your tone, which implies that it is a judgment you place on yourself, or at least a fear you harbor. People are simply reflecting an element of yourself that perhaps is crying to be acknowledged?

Seriously, I haven't read the other posts, but this is something you and your wife obviously need to talk at length about, with non-judgmental help, if desired (even if your wife is a specialist, she is hardly objective with respect to this issue). Keep your mind open as much as possible and examine all the dimensions (including the inner ones). Don't lock yourself in too soon. This is a huge decision and life move. There are lots of possibilities and choices to consider. Breathe it all in and let yourself toss around the ideas and possibilities until it all feels completely right in you; iron out the glitches, if any. Make sure you are acting from a place of taking full, healthy responsibility for your life; make sure your wife is willing to do the same. You both need to see eye to eye on this, and make sure there are no unconscious motivations. Then, understand that whatever choice you make, you will need to deal with whatever consequences that come with them, so be sure you thoroughly examine the issue, because sometimes there can be no going back.

Good luck.

 

[viostorm]

This is my advice and my opinion.

Look, this is your life ... this is not your kids life.

By going to medical school you are possibly giving the child the greatest gift they will have:

1) You will have ability to pay for college.
2) You will have money to provide them other opportunities.

The drawback of being a physician is that you don't get to have the same amount of time with the child.

I think by going to medical school you ARE looking after your family. Everyone sacrifices when you go to school including your wife and kids. That is part of being a physician family ... it isn't an easy life.

Not only that, a LARGE number of pregnancies end in spontaneous abortion. You don't even have a kid yet. The number is like 25% or so by 6th week.

Don't let anyone on this board guilt you into not pursuing your dream.

 

[DoctorMom78]

Ha, make that 3 months of staying up all night with a screaming infant. As I said, I can't imagine getting pregnant, having a newborn while in med school, but I know people do it. Who knows, maybe in a year, I'll want another one. hmmmmmmmmm unlikely.

LOL! Only three months? My two youngest STILL wake up at night. My ten month old still wakes up at least once and my twenty-three month old wakes up fairly frequently. Last night the baby woke up three times and the toddler woke up twice, but they have a cold and are miserable. That's nothing though. Wait until you have a few and then they all get a stomach virus and are up all night vomiting on you. You haven't lived until you've been puked on by one of your children. LOL!!!! That is why moms make better doctors. We know how to deal with all that icky stuff and we can survive on three hours of sleep.

 

[Pigg-O-Stat]

LOL! Great, I can't wait for the first time my baby pukes on me, thanks for the visual drmom! This is why I will leave pediatrics to my fiancee! I will stick with internal medicine...

 

[nascardoc]

As far as having a responsibility to my family, I couldn't agree more. But what is more important to my family in the long term... being physically present for the majority of the infancy, or acquiring a stable carreer with which I can provide for my family financially and set a positive example for my children?

First off, I am 26, married for 2 years, and do not have kids. So I understand, at least a bit, where you are coming from. You have been tossed into a situation I would not wish upon my enemy b/c I too understand what it means to follow a dream and sacrifice for it. But in this case, I can't justify sacrificing my family - to this extent - for medical school (I understand that I will, but to a lesser degree). I am glad that you are seriously considering applying for next year b/c I think leaving your wife and kid, especially with your wife in school, for you to pursue your interests, would be kind of selfish. Sorry, but I could leave my wife 1000's of miles away with my child, even if her mother lived with her. There is always next year for medical school, especially if you believe that this is what you are supposed to be doing with your life. Patience!!!!!!!

As for your "being a man" comments quoted above, I have an issue with those. I do not believe that the only or best way for a man to provide for his family is through finances. A man is NOT defined by the amount of money he makes or how prestigous his job his. Is a man who makes $40,000 busting his a$$ for his family a lesser man than one who becomes a doctor making 6 figures? I think not and I can think of many examples in my own life. I can think of nothing more inspiring to both men and your future child, then showing the sacrifice you made by putting your family first. Imagine, years from now, looking into your childs eyes and telling him/her, "Because I loved you and your mom so much, I turned down this opportunity because it is my responsibilty to take care of you. I sacrificed my dreams, even just by a year or two, and put that on hold so that I can fulfill my true duty as a man and take care of you and your mom."

I believe that this is more of a positive example and shows your child how much you love them, and money has nothing to do with that. That is true sacrifice.

Sorry for being a bit blunt, but this kind of hit a nerve with me. I truly wish you the best because I do understand what it means to want to be a doctor and doing everything you can to fulfill that goal. May God bless you and your family during this decision and future and I hope that your dreams are realized, along with your family's. I think all of the previous posters have given you a lot of great wisdom, except for one...viostorm. I HIGHLY doubt he wants his wife to miscarry. to you for even bringing that up, idiot.

 

[DoctorMom78]

LOL! Great, I can't wait for the first time my baby pukes on me, thanks for the visual drmom! This is why I will leave pediatrics to my fiancee! I will stick with internal medicine...

Sure, anytime. Just keeping it real...

 

[Pemberley]

A good life lesson for my fetus child - When you want something in life, get off your ass and go get it, you may not have the opportunity forever! -

A better life lesson: when you want something, and it conflicts with your duty, do your duty, not what you want.

 

[billydoc]

Aberkovi,
I'm afraid SDN will confuse you with yuor decision making even further. I attended ROSS in 2004. Unfortunately, my story is a lot less successful than I would like for it to be. I went there without my wife, and my daughter, who was 5 at a time. I've always been a very, and I mean VERY involved Dad. So needless to say I almost went nuts there. I also have a medical problem that's under the stress of a very fast pace school, being away, and constant tremors / shakes of this volcanic island had gotten much, much worse. Finally I had to withdraw. But...I don't blame it on ROSS. Aside from being sick, I think I've been feminized by working as an RN for almost 16 yrs prior to the med school. No offense to my female colleagues, just guilty by association. Trust me... I'm not what you would call a "sissy man". But I have that soft spot in my heart for being that Daddy. On the other hand there are so many students there with kids from newborns (though I would not recommend it) to teenages. My wife and dtr visited me there during the summer school brake. My dtr went to a camp which was pretty good. I had a classmate whose wife was about 7 month pregnant when he left for ROSS. When his son was born, about halfway through the semester he went home to visit for about a week. Right after Mini II (midterms). That guy was a Chiropractor before school. So ppl go back and forth all the time. Don't think that you are confined to that island for 16 months. It's really 4 x 3.5 months with about 2 weeks break. Does your wife plan on taking a maternity leave from her school? Cuz 16 months is not long, if you're passing everything. If my dtr didn't need to be in the American school system I just would've taken my wife and dtr along with me, and would've been in 3rd year clinicals by now. But I'm 36, and my dtr is 8 now. I'd give D.O a shot with what I have now, if not...I'll be more mentally prepared this time, and just may wind up at ROSS or AUC again.

Best of Luck to you. Follow your heart. ppl just like to be the "Armchair Generals", but nobody knows your situation better than you do. I'm guilty of asking for an advise here too. Sometimes it's good, and sometimes it's pure garbage. There is no "right" or "wrong" way. Only what's right for you and your family. After all, you are not doing it only for yourself.

 

[mamadoc]

Forget about the baby for a minute. What about the parents? You guys aren't even married yet - maybe you've had a long stable relationship, but maybe you hadn't felt ready for the next step and now you're moving ahead sooner than you planned, because of the pregnancy. Your long-term relationship has only just begun, and separating just as your relationship goes from that of a couple to that of a family strikes me as a huge risk. I presume you would like to have a long happy life with your fiancee, perhaps have more children with her. Certainly that's what comes across when you talk about your responsibilities for the long run.

Your relationship with your fiancee is in its infancy, if you'll pardon the play on words. If you ask me, you risk much more than having your baby not recognize you by being separated now. Even old married folks find separations hard - newly marrieds are much more vulnerable. And newly married new moms in medical school - ack. If I were your fiancee, I am afraid I might find it all too easy to think ugly things about you as I dealt with single parenting while in school.

Please stack the deck in favor of your long-term relationship and the strength of your family! It's not about whether you're gone for the next 16 months, it's whether you guys can stay together for the next 16 (and more) years.

 

[Pigg-O-Stat]

Thank you billydoc. Good insight.