Should I pursue a SMP?

[hafrnn]

Was accepted, but the program hasn’t started yet. I was having doubts if I really needed an SMP to be a successful applicant next cycle based on my stats and ECs.

2 gap years so far, ORM

• cGPA: 3.54 with upward trend
• SGPA: 3.32
• 4000 hours of clinical work as an MA
• 250 hours of volunteering (non-clinical)
• 100 hours of volunteering (clinical)
• 120 hours of shadowing across 4 specialities
• President of a pre-med club in college
• Community service chair for Social Organization in college
• 3 strong LORs
• Neuroscience research assistant in college, but no publications
• Will be publishing a literature review study with an MD this year

I'II be taking the MCAT next January/February and will be applying for both MD and DO next cycle, but leaning more towards MD based on MCAT scores.

Pros for SMP:
Preferred consideration with the SMP school, non-competitive interview linkage with the school if SMP gpa > 3.7 (T50 school), MCAT preparation, good career advising and support, prepares me for first year med school curriculum

Cons:
Expensive, risky - can be very detrimental to my application if grades are poor, very challenging/rigorous curriculum, will be hard to balance other ECs (volunteer, shadow) + MCAT prep

If not SMP, was not sure what type of work to pursue that would strengthen or help my application besides a strong MCAT score.

Thank you in advance!

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[Mr.Smile12]

250 hours of volunteering (non-clinical)

More details would help.

Can't tell you without an MCAT and your state of residence. Your GPA doesn't scream SMP, but I don't know your GPA trend or courses taken.

 

[GoSpursGo]

So, let's simplify this a little bit. The "everything else" in your app outside of your stats is very strong. Your GPA is weak for MD, likely fine for DO. So I see two somewhat competing goals--getting a strong MCAT, and trying to get into an MD school.

I think you are a longshot to get into an MD school without an SMP, but unless you simply need some sort of structure to help you with your MCAT prep I can't see how trying it in the midst of an SMP would maximize your performance on the MCAT. Furthermore, EVEN IF you have a strong SMP, there is no guarantee you'll get into an MD--meaning you could do everything right and still wind up at a DO school. Your goal is not to get an interview, it's to get accepted, and I worry that you're taking on a lot of risk and giving up a much more direct path to DO (and maybe even certain state MDs) just to increase your chances somewhat at other MD schools.

Bottom line, you can dance around all the other details, but you just need to do well on the MCAT and almost nothing else matters. I would be very hesitant to try and take the MCAT during an SMP.

 

[hafrnn]

More details would help.

Can't tell you without an MCAT and your state of residence. Your GPA doesn't scream SMP, but I don't know your GPA trend or courses taken.

State of residence: MA
GPA trend: Grades were around 3.4-3.5 until I had 1 poor semester in junior year (C- in Orgo and C+ in physics), but all As afterwards. That semester my mom suffered a significant health condition, which took a huge toll on our family

For non-clinical volunteering: Organized and participated in local food drives. Worked with underserved local communities and homeless shelters.
I know it’s hard to advise without an MCAT, but test scores have been around 505-507 without much preparation

 

[hafrnn]

So, let's simplify this a little bit. The "everything else" in your app outside of your stats is very strong. Your GPA is weak for MD, likely fine for DO. So I see two somewhat competing goals--getting a strong MCAT, and trying to get into an MD school.

I think you are a longshot to get into an MD school without an SMP, but unless you simply need some sort of structure to help you with your MCAT prep I can't see how trying it in the midst of an SMP would maximize your performance on the MCAT. Furthermore, EVEN IF you have a strong SMP, there is no guarantee you'll get into an MD--meaning you could do everything right and still wind up at a DO school. Your goal is not to get an interview, it's to get accepted, and I worry that you're taking on a lot of risk and giving up a much more direct path to DO (and maybe even certain state MDs) just to increase your chances somewhat at other MD schools.

Bottom line, you can dance around all the other details, but you just need to do well on the MCAT and almost nothing else matters. I would be very hesitant to try and take the MCAT during an SMP.

Thank you for your advice!
You mentioned that getting into an MD school would be a longshot, but with an above average MCAT score (511+), would you say that my chances of an MD acceptance becomes more realistic without needing an SMP?

 

[LizzyM]

Given your GPA and anticipated MCAT score, you have a one-in-three chance of admission to an MD school, maybe less (MA state of residence is not one of the easiest but not the worst either).

With a MCAT well above average, you could bring the likelihood of admission well above average too.

https://www.aamc.org/media/6091/download

What the chart doesn't tell us is how sGPA affects the likelihood and your sGPA is well below the ideal. For that reason, you need some way to show us you have the fund of knowledge. Not sure a SMP is the way to do that given, as you've noted, that it is high risk and costly.

If you have the self-discipline to prep for the MCAT and concurrently retake a couple of those particularly weak science courses (which may not move the sGPA needle much but will show you have the right stuff at a cost and a risk that is less than a SMP), that might be a better road for you.

 

[hafrnn]

Given your GPA and anticipated MCAT score, you have a one-in-three chance of admission to an MD school, maybe less (MA state of residence is not one of the easiest but not the worst either).

With a MCAT well above average, you could bring the likelihood of admission well above average too.

https://www.aamc.org/media/6091/download

What the chart doesn't tell us is how sGPA affects the likelihood and your sGPA is well below the ideal. For that reason, you need some way to show us you have the fund of knowledge. Not sure a SMP is the way to do that given, as you've noted, that it is high risk and costly.

If you have the self-discipline to prep for the MCAT and concurrently retake a couple of those particularly weak science courses (which may not move the sGPA needle much but will show you have the right stuff at a cost and a risk that is less than a SMP), that might be a better road for you.

Thank you very much for your recommendation.

If I were to go the non-SMP route, would it be less ideal to study for the MCAT while also working on my paper for publication, and continuing some volunteer activities that I am passionate in?

Or would you advise that retaking a couple science courses to improve my sGPA should take greater precedent? (I’m assuming through post-bacc)
How necessary do you believe it is to retake those science courses for me to be a successful applicant?

I’m aware that a single MCAT score will not overcome a weak sGPA. Nevertheless, do you think it would hurt my admissions chances even if I scored above average on the science MCAT sections, but do not retake the science courses? Or would it be somewhat overlooked?

 

[LizzyM]

The MCAT shows that you have the discipline to prepare for and do well on a single day, high stakes exam. The GPA shows how you do over the long-haul of years in the classroom. Seeing a great MCAT with a poor GPA can raise questions about how well you will do in the intense classroom milieu of medical school. For that reason, it wouldn't hurt to take some classes as a post-bac but if you are just taking a few credits with no other visible responsibilities (not employed concurrently) it won't help much ("they do okay when it's one course but not so well with five at once"). Do you have it in you to prep for 8 hours/day for 8 weeks? Can you take a practice test per week for 5 consecutive Saturdays and review the correct and incorrect answers the following day to find your weaknesses and address them during the week? That's what it could take and even then you may be a better candidate for DO than for MD.

 

[GoSpursGo]

Thank you very much for your recommendation.

If I were to go the non-SMP route, would it be less ideal to study for the MCAT while also working on my paper for publication, and continuing some volunteer activities that I am passionate in?

Or would you advise that retaking a couple science courses to improve my sGPA should take greater precedent? (I’m assuming through post-bacc)
How necessary do you believe it is to retake those science courses for me to be a successful applicant?

I’m aware that a single MCAT score will not overcome a weak sGPA. Nevertheless, do you think it would hurt my admissions chances even if I scored above average on the science MCAT sections, but do not retake the science courses? Or would it be somewhat overlooked?

I agree with what @LizzyM said. At this point your GPA is good enough to get into a med school, which should be the most important goal. If you are really going to aim for MD, an SMP could help but also risk the chance you currently have and would give you no guarantee even if you do well in the SMP.

Any of the activities you laid out could help. There are only 24 hours in a day, and the MCAT is most important. We're not going to be able to tell you how to best balance your time without biting off more than you can chew.

You should not retake old courses, as that doesn't prove anything. You *should* get an A in a class the second time around.

 

[Goro]

State of residence: MA
GPA trend: Grades were around 3.4-3.5 until I had 1 poor semester in junior year (C- in Orgo and C+ in physics), but all As afterwards. That semester my mom suffered a significant health condition, which took a huge toll on our family

For non-clinical volunteering: Organized and participated in local food drives. Worked with underserved local communities and homeless shelters.
I know it’s hard to advise without an MCAT, but test scores have been around 505-507 without much preparation

What are your year by year (not semester by semester) GPAs?

 

[hafrnn]

What are your year by year (not semester by semester) GPAs?

Freshman - 3.54 overall, 3.33 sGPA
Sophomore - 3.38 overall, 3.33 sGPA
Junior - 3.30 overall, 2.74 sGPA
Senior - 3.93, 3.88 sGPA

I took a few summer courses including a pre-requisite general writing course for my school major, a neuroscience elective and general chemistry.
As previously mentioned, Junior year was the most challenging as my mother suffered a stroke. Looking back, I believe I did bite off more than I can chew academically and socially, all while balancing my family issues that year.
It definitely was a significant learning experience and I wanted to prove not only to others, but especially to myself that I can be a successful student. The transition from Junior to Senior year was my turning point, where I had to reflect on my desire to truly pursue medicine and there were key moments that summer, which made me more determined and reminded me again of why I wanted to become a physician. I believe my results at the end reflect this as well.

 

[hafrnn]

I agree with what @LizzyM said. At this point your GPA is good enough to get into a med school, which should be the most important goal. If you are really going to aim for MD, an SMP could help but also risk the chance you currently have and would give you no guarantee even if you do well in the SMP.

Any of the activities you laid out could help. There are only 24 hours in a day, and the MCAT is most important. We're not going to be able to tell you how to best balance your time without biting off more than you can chew.

You should not retake old courses, as that doesn't prove anything. You *should* get an A in a class the second time around.

Thank you.

Just to clarify. You advise that I should not retake old courses. Then, do you believe it would be worthwhile to do a post-bac for upper level science courses that I have not taken to improve my sGPA, or should I just focus my attention on attaining the highest MCAT score along with building on my ECs?

 

[GoSpursGo]

Thank you.

Just to clarify. You advise that I should not retake old courses. Then, do you believe it would be worthwhile to do a post-bac for upper level science courses that I have not taken to improve my sGPA, or should I just focus my attention on attaining the highest MCAT score along with building on my ECs?

I think it would be helpful to know the number of credit hours each semester that are science courses. Is the 3.88 in your senior year with a full science load (ie 15-20 BCPM hours) or is it just like 6 hours?

But again, it is really hard to recommend what to do with your gap year. Your GPA is low but acceptable at DO schools; doing a post-bacc or SMP might put MDs more in play, but that path carries risk while not giving you any guarantee. If instead you choose to do something else that enhances your ECs, then you need to be OK with mostly applying to DO and your state MDs.

The most important part of your plan has to involve having ample time for your MCAT prep. Nothing else you do will matter if you don't do well there.

 

[Goro]

Freshman - 3.54 overall, 3.33 sGPA
Sophomore - 3.38 overall, 3.33 sGPA
Junior - 3.30 overall, 2.74 sGPA
Senior - 3.93, 3.88 sGPA

I took a few summer courses including a pre-requisite general writing course for my school major, a neuroscience elective and general chemistry.
As previously mentioned, Junior year was the most challenging as my mother suffered a stroke. Looking back, I believe I did bite off more than I can chew academically and socially, all while balancing my family issues that year.
It definitely was a significant learning experience and I wanted to prove not only to others, but especially to myself that I can be a successful student. The transition from Junior to Senior year was my turning point, where I had to reflect on my desire to truly pursue medicine and there were key moments that summer, which made me more determined and reminded me again of why I wanted to become a physician. I believe my results at the end reflect this as well.

You have three weak years of sGPA, and only one MD caliber year. That's not enough to show reinvention, and I don't think that a strong MCAT will be enough to get you an II.

You're fine for DO right now, but if you're gunning for MD, I suggest the SMP or a DIY post bacc.

 

[hafrnn]

I think it would be helpful to know the number of credit hours each semester that are science courses. Is the 3.88 in your senior year with a full science load (ie 15-20 BCPM hours) or is it just like 6 hours?

But again, it is really hard to recommend what to do with your gap year. Your GPA is low but acceptable at DO schools; doing a post-bacc or SMP might put MDs more in play, but that path carries risk while not giving you any guarantee. If instead you choose to do something else that enhances your ECs, then you need to be OK with mostly applying to DO and your state MDs.

The most important part of your plan has to involve having ample time for your MCAT prep. Nothing else you do will matter if you don't do well there.

Yes, I took 3 upper level biology and 1 chemistry course during my senior year.

 

[GoSpursGo]

Yes, I took 3 upper level biology and 1 chemistry course during my senior year.

I more or less agree with @Goro . You could either take another ~18 hours of upper level science courses, or do a formal SMP. But again, if you decide to go down that road you have to be comfortable knowing that you're taking a risk, and also you're only going to raise your chances at an MD acceptance, not assure it.

 

[hafrnn]

You have three weak years of sGPA, and only one MD caliber year. That's not enough to show reinvention, and I don't think that a strong MCAT will be enough to get you an II.

You're fine for DO right now, but if you're gunning for MD, I suggest the SMP or a DIY post bacc.

Appreciate the help!
I had a couple follow up questions.

1. When comparing a DIY post bacc versus SMP, will MD programs look less favorably on a DIY post bacc compared to an SMP?

2. It seems like the general consensus is to avoid retaking old courses, but do you think I would need to retake my orgo class from junior year because I earned a C-?
Or should I just aim to focus on taking new upper level courses? (e.g. Anatomy, Immunology, Genetics, etc)

3. I am not as familiar with post bacc programs, but does it matter if I complete the courses at any 4-year institution? And is it more reasonable to balance preparing for the MCAT with a Postbacc versus SMP?

 

[KaiBuzz]

1. DIY post bacc is fine.
2.retake orgo and add genetics, anatomy, stats, etc.
3. Take post bacc classes at the most competitive college you can get into.

 

[Goro]

Appreciate the help!
I had a couple follow up questions.

1. When comparing a DIY post bacc versus SMP, will MD programs look less favorably on a DIY post bacc compared to an SMP?

School dependent, impossible to answer. But look at MSAR online and note how many schools have a high % of matriculants who have done post-doc work or a post-grad degree. These tend to be schools that reward reinvention.

2. It seems like the general consensus is to avoid retaking old courses, but do you think I would need to retake my orgo class from junior year because I earned a C-?

Might help with MCAT, some schools require a C or better in some pre-reqs.

Or should I just aim to focus on taking new upper level courses? (e.g. Anatomy, Immunology, Genetics, etc)

Definitely yes to this

3. I am not as familiar with post bacc programs, but does it matter if I complete the courses at any 4-year institution?

A post-bacc program is more for career switchers. We're suggesting a DIY postbac. A 4 year school is better, but is $ is an issue, then a CC might be OK

And is it more reasonable to balance preparing for the MCAT with a Postbacc versus SMP?

Do NOT take the MCAT during an SMP!!!!

 

[hafrnn]

School dependent, impossible to answer. But look at MSAR online and note how many schools have a high % of matriculants who have done post-doc work or a post-grad degree. These tend to be schools that reward reinvention.

Might help with MCAT, some schools require a C or better in some pre-reqs.

Definitely yes to this

A post-bacc program is more for career switchers. We're suggesting a DIY postbac. A 4 year school is better, but is $ is an issue, then a CC might be OK

Do NOT take the MCAT during an SMP!!!!

This might be school dependent as well, but what are your opinions on completing some post bacc courses online?
Especially if I had to support myself with a part time job and MCAT prep, online classes offer great flexibility.
Some of these online courses are offered at established 4 year colleges such as Harvard and UCLA.
From your experience, would schools overall still view these less favorably?

 

[Goro]

This might be school dependent as well, but what are your opinions on completing some post bacc courses online?
Especially if I had to support myself with a part time job and MCAT prep, online classes offer great flexibility.
Some of these online courses are offered at established 4 year colleges such as Harvard and UCLA.
From your experience, would schools overall still view these less favorably?

No, we understand that people have lives

 

[LeaveNoTrace]

I would recommend a DIY postbacc in your case. An SMP is a go big or go home move. With 30 credits of 3.7+ and a 515+ MCAT you're now in the running for MD schools. I'd do 30 credits of DIY postbacc, maybe get a clinical job, and take the MCAT when you're doing well on official AAMC practice tests.

As for online classes...they need to be at reputable schools. Harvard and UCLA are fine; for-profit schools, not so much.

 

[hafrnn]

I would recommend a DIY postbacc in your case. An SMP is a go big or go home move. With 30 credits of 3.7+ and a 515+ MCAT you're now in the running for MD schools. I'd do 30 credits of DIY postbacc, maybe get a clinical job, and take the MCAT when you're doing well on official AAMC practice tests.

As for online classes...they need to be at reputable schools. Harvard and UCLA are fine; for-profit schools, not so much.

Could you please elaborate on “for-profit schools”? What schools or courses would be considered for-profit?

Would you recommend that all 30 credit hours be upper science level courses, or could I also incorporate a few psychology, sociology courses as well?

I was hoping to apply next cycle with a strong MCAT score, additional volunteering hours and 15-18 credits of 3.7+ sGPA. Along with my improved grades during senior year (3.93 cGPA) and total EC hours and accomplishments, do you believe that I would be competitive for next cycle or advise that I still take an additional gap year (2+) with more post bacc courses and apply for the 2025 cycle?

Thank you!

 

[Goro]

Would you recommend that all 30 credit hours be upper science level courses, or could I also incorporate a few psychology, sociology courses as well?

All upper level science courses.

 

[LeaveNoTrace]

Could you please elaborate on “for-profit schools”? What schools or courses would be considered for-profit?

It doesn't need to be Harvard or UCLA, but something like a state school or a decent 4-year school with a brick-and-mortar campus. Not something like Phoenix. It's just that you can't be getting your postbacc from something that smells like a diploma mill or something like that.