Single GME accreditation webinar

[YankeeCandle1141]

Tonight at 6pm. I was hoping someone could write up some of the pertinent information in here for those of us unable to tune in.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[ZezKaiEll]

I'm not sure yet if I will be able to watch it, but if I do I'd be willing.

 

[GUH]

I would also like to see a recap. I promise to like your post if you write one up

 

[xBODOMx]

.

 

[YankeeCandle1141]

Someone?

 

[ZezKaiEll]

OK, so just finished listening to this thing. The good news is they stated that they will post it on the web (AACOM website I think) in the near future. Here's a rundown of stuff I noted so you can decide if it is worth it to watch on your own.

Nothing groundbreaking imo, they stated that they were incorporating student questions into the presentation's topics, and would use e-mail FAQs to answer remaining questions. Much of what was covered was already well known by those following the issue.

• This is the first in a series of webinars.
• Timeline of merger discussions: 2012 start of talks, reasons, etc.
• Emphasized advantages of single GME accreditation system: consistent evaluation, efficiency, accountability etc.
• Elements of agreement: AOA and AACOM become member organizations of ACGME, transitional 5 year period etc.
• DOs have been added to review committees in ACGME.
• Emphasized that no changes to predoctoral education, COMLEX, board certification. Only to GME.
• State that COMLEX appears to be better received as we go forward; it's not going away.
• Will there be a single match? Right now there are at least 4: AOA, NRMP, San Francisco, Military. Nothing inherent in agreement about single match. Not clear that there ever will be for all 4. Personal opinion of presenter: less likely that there is an abrupt end of AOA match, rather a gradual transition to NRMP.
• Programs achieving initial accreditation under single accreditation system would be eligible to participate in NRMP. As long as programs have AOA accreditation only and are in a pre-accreditation status with ACGME, there will be a need for an AOA match.
• Mentions that planning/discussions are underway about dynamics of future matches. AOA understands this is important to students.
• Timeline of transition. MOU signed. Feb 2015: sponsoring institutions started submitting intent to apply, later in July: online applications for AOA approved programs to become ACGME accredited. AOA ceases to accredit programs on June 30th, 2020.
• Pre-accreditation: only intended to be applied during transition. Not synonymous with initial accreditation. It is granted upon receipt of completed application, does not require review by committee. Is publicly acknowledged.
• Pre-accreditation remains in effect until application withdrawal, initial accreditation granted, or June 30th deadline. Pre-accreditation is instantaneous based on app completion, initial accreditation can take 6 months or longer. Application is received, site visit, report completed, and reviewed by committee along with application. If requirements met = initial accreditation granted.
• Mentioned a change in 2016 ERAS: letters of rec must be submitted thru portal and uploaded by author for designee.
• Spent some time talking about basics about residency specialty: preliminary years etc.
• Talked about ACGME TY vs. AOA TRI, as well as preliminary vs. transitional years. AOA internships will apply for accreditation as ACGME TY programs. Sponsoring specialties/programs must have pre-accreditation.
• No major changes to ERAS for 16/17 year. For 17/18 there will be some. Didn't really catch much of this, it was briefly mentioned, and the preliminary year stuff nearly put me to sleep.
• Mentioned board certification (ABMS/AOA) eligibility based on preliminary year, residency location (AOA/ACGME).
• The AOA is working with FL, OK, MI, PA state legislatures to consider changing licensing laws.
• Showed a ton of links to get more info for pretty much everything discussed.

Sorry for any errors, this was not really edited much just typed on the fly and made a bit more readable. Find the presentation on AACOM's website and follow the links to learn more stuff. Hope this helped.

 

[NurWollen]

Sounds like nothing new. But I am confused about one thing: people who graduate from an osteopathic-focused ACGME residency will be eligible for ABMS certification, assuming the residency gets accreditation early enough in the residents time there. Am I right?

 

[hallowmann]

Sounds like much of the same. Things moving along as expected. Would like to know more about eras 17/18 changes, but it can wait. Thanks for the update.

 

[kenjixshadow]

• State that COMLEX appears to be better received as we go forward; it's not going away.

 

[user3]

glad they appear to be addressing the res 42 issue.

 

[abolt18]

• State that COMLEX appears to be better received as we go forward; it's not going away.

He stated the reason for this was that it's the measure determined by COCA to assess our competency and has nothing to do with GME. Sounds like we need to petition COCA to switch to the USMLE and throw in something like the OPP COMAT to test our osteopathic competency. Seriously it only makes sense. If we're all doctors-to-be, allow PD's to use the same measure to compare us.

 

[DocWinter]

Yes, there was really no updates...for those in the 2015/2016 grad classes, it seems like business as usual. It's still wait and see for those of us in the 2017/2018 graduating classes, just plan on taking the COMLEX & USMLE....

 

[YankeeCandle1141]

He stated the reason for this was that it's the measure determined by COCA to assess our competency and has nothing to do with GME. Sounds like we need to petition COCA to switch to the USMLE and throw in something like the OPP COMAT to test our osteopathic competency. Seriously it only makes sense. If we're all doctors-to-be, allow PD's to use the same measure to compare us.

I think people just need to accept the fact that you have to take the comlex.

People have bitched and moaned all of the bitches and moans possible about that test for years. They arent getting rid of it. Ever.

 

[Dharma]

• State that COMLEX appears to be better received as we go forward; it's not going away.

what they meant was that the NBOME better receive their money as we go forward, so it's not going away.

 

[Dharma]

I think people just need to accept the fact that you have to take the comlex.

People have bitched and moaned all of the bitches and moans possible about that test for years. They arent getting rid of it. Ever.

 

[Bill Brasky]

 

[Dharma]

hahahahahahah! man i can watch that million times!

 

[Mr. Mojo Risin]

It's a shame how many people give me blank stares when I say it like that. What has the world come to?!

hahahahahahah! man i can watch that million times!

 

[Cuze]

This is the first in a series of webinars

Are all the webinars going to be on the merger? And how do you get access to these?

 

[Mr. Mojo Risin]

Are all the webinars going to be on the merger? And how do you get access to these?

http://osteopathic.org/inside-aoa/single-gme-accreditation-system/Pages/webinars.aspx

 

[Cuze]

muchas gracias

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

He stated the reason for this was that it's the measure determined by COCA to assess our competency and has nothing to do with GME. Sounds like we need to petition COCA to switch to the USMLE and throw in something like the OPP COMAT to test our osteopathic competency. Seriously it only makes sense. If we're all doctors-to-be, allow PD's to use the same measure to compare us.

lol as if COCA is willing to lose money to benefit students.

 

[ZezKaiEll]

Are all the webinars going to be on the merger? And how do you get access to these?

It did sound that way, but I don't recall him specifying. It wasn't mentioned again after the beginning as far as I can remember. I think most people were forwarded invitation links from their schools.

 

[NontradCA]

He stated the reason for this was that it's the measure determined by COCA to assess our competency and has nothing to do with GME. Sounds like we need to petition COCA to switch to the USMLE and throw in something like the OPP COMAT to test our osteopathic competency. Seriously it only makes sense. If we're all doctors-to-be, allow PD's to use the same measure to compare us.

You're talking crazy. That'd be a step to unifying the degree. Which the powers at be are doing absolutely everything they can to fight tooth and nail.

 

[jw3600]

I feel like the AOA and COCA have become a union of sorts. Absolutely terrible for everyone not involved (INCLUDING medical students) but wonderful and the only thing keeping them relevant for a small faction of administrators and higher ups.

 

[GUH]

I feel like the AOA and COCA have become a union of sorts. Absolutely terrible for everyone not involved (INCLUDING medical students) but wonderful and the only thing keeping them relevant for a small faction of administrators and higher ups.

I have seen absolutely zero evidence that the AMA and the LCME or the ACGME care an iota more about DO students than the AOA and its partners do.
It's popular to crap on the AOA but for those of us who actually want to be DOs, the calls from within the osteopathic community for its collapse are alarming given that there is no other organization out there doing anything positive at all for the profession.

 

[Dharma]

I have seen absolutely zero evidence that the AMA and the LCME or the ACGME care an iota more about DO students than the AOA and its partners do.
It's popular to crap on the AOA but for those of us who actually want to be DOs, the calls from within the osteopathic community for its collapse are alarming.

I would say that vast majority of DO students fit into the camp that wants to see the AOA go bye-bye. In a few years, they will be the physicians who likely will not be in support of the AOA (especially as the ACGME slowly digests it over the decades, a la the Sarlac of Tatooine). How long can the AOA survive when those it supposedly represent feel that the political body is unnecessary at best? Can it survive with the support of the few after it no longer stands as a self-sustaining entity? The day the AOA signed the merger was the day it lost its juice.

That said, as my personal disclaimer, I don't know where I stand on the issue besides knowing that I will be going all-in for the NRMP match and that in the end, I just care about being a solid physician, regardless of the white coat alphabet soup or the political poop.

 

[NurWollen]

I have seen absolutely zero evidence that the AMA and the LCME or the ACGME care an iota more about DO students than the AOA and its partners do.
It's popular to crap on the AOA but for those of us who actually want to be DOs, the calls from within the osteopathic community for its collapse are alarming given that there is no other organization out there doing anything positive at all for the profession.

You absolutely make some good points, especially about the AMA. Similar criticisms also apply to a good percentage of the specialty colleges, and even more so to the ABMS. There is a lot more hatred right now in the world of real physicians towards the ABMS than there is or ever has been toward the AOA.

I am curious, however, about your reasoning. You often make comments about "those of us who actually want to be DOs." I'm curious, what is it about being a DO student that you prefer? I feel like I can be proud to be a DO student and still criticize the goings on of our profession organization as well as criticize some of the things that are part of our OMM curriculum.

 

[Oo Cipher oO]

He stated the reason for this was that it's the measure determined by COCA to assess our competency and has nothing to do with GME. Sounds like we need to petition COCA to switch to the USMLE and throw in something like the OPP COMAT to test our osteopathic competency. Seriously it only makes sense. If we're all doctors-to-be, allow PD's to use the same measure to compare us.

I think it is better to work to improve the COMLEX rather than just default to the USMLE + OMT. It stands to reason that a profession that has its own schools, accreditation, and criteria for graduation should be able to set their own qualification test for licensing. I agree that the COMLEX in it current form leaves much to be desired but we should work to improve rather than replace it.

 

[NOsaintsfan]

I think it is better to work to improve the COMLEX rather than just default to the USMLE + OMT. It stands to reason that a profession that has its own schools, accreditation, and criteria for graduation should be able to set their own qualification test for licensing. I agree that the COMLEX in it current form leaves much to be desired but we should work to improve rather than replace it.

Redundancy is inefficient. The COMLEX supposedly tests the exact same material as the USMLE + OMM. Why make DO students sit for 2 separate exams and pay both fees? In my humble opinion its all bout money, it always is. Believe otherwise if you want.