Single Payer argues for 20% cut to doctors

[GeneralVeers]

Interesting article. This is not a right-wing blog, but in fact a left-wing one. They think we're paid too much (relative to the rest of the world), and view us as a nice big fat target from which to extract cuts:

http://www.vox.com/2016/1/15/10775050/single-payer-debate

They do fail to comment on the shortage of doctors nationwide. Likely any such plan would further exacerbate the shortage.

This is why we need to continue legislative efforts to oppose any and all government intervention in healthcare spending.

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[Old_Mil]

The other thing they fail to mention is the big hit physician salaries have already taken. A now deceased family member who was a private practice surgeon 20 years ago made some 40% more than my employed colleagues in the same specialty today. I would imagine very similar situation would exist for EM senior partners in democratic groups a decade or two ago compared to their modern CMG counterparts.

 

[deleted480308]

Interesting article. This is not a right-wing blog, but in fact a left-wing one. They think we're paid too much (relative to the rest of the world), and view us as a nice big fat target from which to extract cuts:

http://www.vox.com/2016/1/15/10775050/single-payer-debate

They do fail to comment on the shortage of doctors nationwide. Likely any such plan would further exacerbate the shortage.

This is why we need to continue legislative efforts to oppose any and all government intervention in healthcare spending.

It will be an uphill battle. We not only have to beat legislators trying to get elected by giving away our services below market value, we have our own education system to compete with.....med students are constantly being told that health care is a right and that we all have to make sacrifices/efforts to lower the cost. This "cog in a machine" mentality devalues the skillset and if the next generation of docs doesn't see it, the battle is over.

 

[gman33]

Want to cut costs.
Get rid of patient satisfaction scores.
Get rid of the ability to sue.
Cut my reimbursement some.

I'll no longer need malpractice insurance and my pay should stay neutral.

The overall cost of healthcare would dramatically decrease with little change in outcomes.

This plan will never work.

 

[The White Coat Investor]

I would imagine very similar situation would exist for EM senior partners in democratic groups a decade or two ago compared to their modern CMG counterparts.

B.S. Where's your data and have you adjusted it for inflation? And I dislike the idea of a "senior" partner.

 

[Psai]

I think bloggers should get a 50% pay decrease as they are paid much less in foreign countries and provide no real benefit to anyone. They style themselves as reporters except without pesky facts or editorial review. The problem is that greedy american bloggers love money.

This is a guy talking crap about other people making too much when his posts are terrible but he somehow managed to buy a multimillion dollar house. Do you see any foreign bloggers with multimillion houses? Foreign outfitters pay their bloggers 50% less. Blogging for all!

 

[Old_Mil]

B.S. Where's your data and have you adjusted it for inflation? And I dislike the idea of a "senior" partner.

The data is based on first hand knowledge of the receivables in that practice and knowledge of what his modern counterparts make. Those are real dollars, not nominal.

I am generalizing on the democratic group vs CMG. If that isn't the case, then it sort of eliminates the argument against punching the clock for a CMG that many have made.

As far as senior partners, owners, whatever you want to call them that is more in reference to large multiple hospital outfits that advertise a partner track but in reality there is an inner circle that is getting compensated according to a model - and at a higher level than the "partners".

 

[The White Coat Investor]

I am generalizing on the democratic group vs CMG.

Exactly. I've looked at the surveys every year of my career. Income has consistently risen for emergency docs over my career (last 13 years.) The idea of "the golden years" exists only in your mind if you're a partner in a group of emergency physicians. These are the golden years. We're making twice as much as primary care docs and more than many of our consultants despite only a 3 year residency and many fewer hours.

As far as senior partners, owners, whatever you want to call them that is more in reference to large multiple hospital outfits that advertise a partner track but in reality there is an inner circle that is getting compensated according to a model - and at a higher level than the "partners".

That's the problem with being in a group with "senior partners."

 

[GeneralVeers]

My point was to illustrate that "single payer" and government-run healthcare is a threat to us. Those who are on the pro side of the issue truly believe in class-warfare, and think that it's social justice to redistribute wealth. They aren't simply for expanding coverage to the unininsured. Doctors, along with any other profession that makes "too much money" are targets. To them it's a moral cause to reduce our reimbursement, and if it helps fund their pet social projects, then so much the better.

BTW I'd pit my CMG part-time reimbursement against any SDG and probably win. Obviously it wouldn't compare to the "inner circle" reimbrusement.

 

[deltamed]

Exactly. I've looked at the surveys every year of my career. Income has consistently risen for emergency docs over my career (last 13 years.) The idea of "the golden years" exists only in your mind if you're a partner in a group of emergency physicians. These are the golden years. We're making twice as much as primary care docs and more than many of our consultants despite only a 3 year residency and many fewer hours.



That's the problem with being in a group with "senior partners."

This may be true for EM but I doubt many other specialties can say the same. Not even counting the exponential rise in the cost of medical school and the increasing frequency of fellowships extending length of training.

 

[meister]

Matt Yglesias hates physicians and has a long history of declaring his frustration/envy that Internet bloggers don't make as much. See here:

http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2013/11/20/doctors_pay_under_obamacare_cut_the_whining.html

 

[da8s0859q]

Matt Yglesias hates physicians and has a long history of declaring his frustration/envy that Internet bloggers don't make as much. See here:

http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2013/11/20/doctors_pay_under_obamacare_cut_the_whining.html

What a useless blog post. Opinions from someone with a horribly flawed understanding of the process to become a doctor and the practice of medicine itself... to put it mildly.

 

[Hooper]

My point was to illustrate that "single payer" and government-run healthcare is a threat to us. Those who are on the pro side of the issue truly believe in class-warfare, and think that it's social justice to redistribute wealth. They aren't simply for expanding coverage to the unininsured. Doctors, along with any other profession that makes "too much money" are targets. To them it's a moral cause to reduce our reimbursement, and if it helps fund their pet social projects, then so much the better.

BTW I'd pit my CMG part-time reimbursement against any SDG and probably win. Obviously it wouldn't compare to the "inner circle" reimbrusement.

I agree that single payer is a threat to "us". But it's not really about "us". When I was a med student, I remember being bored on some rotation, (maybe anesthesia in the PACU) and got to talking to a patient. It was probably during Obama's second campaign or around the time of the election and somehow politics came up. I remember saying something to the effect of "Politicians are all the same. No matter who wins, I'm gonna be just fine". It was naive to say but it was true. I'm a doctor and I'm gonna have a good life no matter what. The patient's response stuck with me to this day. He said "Brotha, you don't vote for yourself, you vote for those who are less fortunate than you." I don't mean to over-dramatize the story but it really influenced my thinking since.

I'm not for single payer because of "class warfare" or "re-distribution of wealth". I honestly think it's the best system for the population as a whole. Private insurance is an awful middle man industry that doesn't care about the patient one iota. I'll take the government as the lesser of the two evils. I'm in my last year of residency and signed a two year contract as an internal locums for a CMG and am getting paid a ****load of money for it. I also think these are actually the golden years of EM and I'm going to try to take advantage of it while I can. I fully expect that our reimbursement will go down, but I'm perfectly OK with that as long as it benefits those less fortunate than me and our healthcare system as a whole.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

I'm not for single payer because of "class warfare" or "re-distribution of wealth". I honestly think it's the best system for the population as a whole. Private insurance is an awful middle man industry that doesn't care about the patient one iota. I'll take the government as the lesser of the two evils. I'm in my last year of residency and signed a two year contract as an internal locums for a CMG and am getting paid a ****load of money for it. I also think these are actually the golden years of EM and I'm going to try to take advantage of it while I can. I fully expect that our reimbursement will go down, but I'm perfectly OK with that as long as it benefits those less fortunate than me and our healthcare system as a whole.

You are wrong. Take a look at the NHS in the UK as it slowly implodes or the VA here in America and tell me either of those is a good system.

 

[deleted480308]

I agree that single payer is a threat to "us". But it's not really about "us". When I was a med student, I remember being bored on some rotation, (maybe anesthesia in the PACU) and got to talking to a patient. It was probably during Obama's second campaign or around the time of the election and somehow politics came up. I remember saying something to the effect of "Politicians are all the same. No matter who wins, I'm gonna be just fine". It was naive to say but it was true. I'm a doctor and I'm gonna have a good life no matter what. The patient's response stuck with me to this day. He said "Brotha, you don't vote for yourself, you vote for those who are less fortunate than you." I don't mean to over-dramatize the story but it really influenced my thinking since.

I'm not for single payer because of "class warfare" or "re-distribution of wealth". I honestly think it's the best system for the population as a whole. Private insurance is an awful middle man industry that doesn't care about the patient one iota. I'll take the government as the lesser of the two evils. I'm in my last year of residency and signed a two year contract as an internal locums for a CMG and am getting paid a ****load of money for it. I also think these are actually the golden years of EM and I'm going to try to take advantage of it while I can. I fully expect that our reimbursement will go down, but I'm perfectly OK with that as long as it benefits those less fortunate than me and our healthcare system as a whole.

You aren't being generous, you are deciding that other people get to take my earned money from me and my kids.

If you feel a charitable compulsion to a particular person, do what I do and give to that particular person. Don't pat yourself on the back for supporting redistribution via threat of violence.

 

[Hooper]

You aren't being generous, you are deciding that other people get to take my earned money from me and my kids.

If you feel a charitable compulsion to a particular person, do what I do and give to that particular person. Don't pat yourself on the back for supporting redistribution via threat of violence.

Your response is hilarious. Just like the multi-millionaire athlete who sits out training camp for more money "to put food on the table". It's completely disingenuous. You have every right to want to make as much money as possible but spinning it like your family will struggle if you make a little less is quite frankly BS.

I don't feel a charitable compulsion to a particular person. I feel one to everyone who doesn't have access to affordable basic healthcare services.

I'm not gonna change your mind, you're not going to change mine. Just sharing my perspective to add to the conversation. I have no interest in further debating with strangers on the internet.

 

[deleted480308]

Your response is hilarious. Just like the multi-millionaire athlete who sits out training camp for more money "to put food on the table". It's completely disingenuous. You have every right to want to make as much money as possible but spinning it like your family will struggle if you make a little less is quite frankly BS.

I don't feel a charitable compulsion to a particular person. I feel one to everyone who doesn't have access to affordable basic healthcare services.

I'm not gonna change your mind, you're not going to change mine. Just sharing my perspective to add to the conversation. I have no interest in further debating with strangers on the internet.

I don't lose property rights just because I have a lot of property, I fund my own charitable interests and you should fund your own too.....don't send government to make other people chip in for your pet projects

 

[darknecrosforte]

I don't lose property rights just because I have a lot of property, I fund my own charitable interests and you should fund your own too.....don't send government to make other people chip in for your pet projects

You sir, are libertarian af. A true one. Do you listen to Stefan Molyneux or Bill Whittle? Your arguments are very principled.

 

[deleted480308]

You sir, are libertarian af. A true one. Do you listen to Stefan Molyneux or Bill Whittle? Your arguments are very principled.

I don't know much about Bill Whittle, but I've heard quite a bit of Molyneux. Huge fan of sowell, friedman, mises etc

 

[darknecrosforte]

I'm not for single payer because of "class warfare" or "re-distribution of wealth". I honestly think it's the best system for the population as a whole. Private insurance is an awful middle man industry that doesn't care about the patient one iota. I'll take the government as the lesser of the two evils. I'm in my last year of residency and signed a two year contract as an internal locums for a CMG and am getting paid a ****load of money for it. I also think these are actually the golden years of EM and I'm going to try to take advantage of it while I can. I fully expect that our reimbursement will go down, but I'm perfectly OK with that as long as it benefits those less fortunate than me and our healthcare system as a whole.

The government isn't the lesser of two evils, it is the CAUSE of the evils. It's the crooked referee that looks away every time the chosen boxer decides it wants to elbow the challenger and pretends it's a fair fight. It's the abusive/negligent parent that causes the boxers to yearn for the glory of the ring. Take the monopoly of lawful force/violence called government out of the picture and you will have private systems that will compete for the patient. Maybe one company has a better system of training physicians and another is better at lowering overhead. Just get rid of the true monopoly which has no business dealing with systems it has zero understanding of.

 

[ZPakEffect]

The government isn't the lesser of two evils, it is the CAUSE of the evils. It's the crooked referee that looks away every time the chosen boxer decides it wants to elbow the challenger and pretends it's a fair fight. It's the abusive/negligent parent that causes the boxers to yearn for the glory of the ring. Take the monopoly of lawful force/violence called government out of the picture and you will have private systems that will compete for the patient. Maybe one company has a better system of training physicians and another is better at lowering overhead. Just get rid of the true monopoly which has no business dealing with systems it has zero understanding of.

The government is the sole reason that physicians can command high salaries. If not for licensing requirements to practice medicine, any ***** can open up a clinic and start prescribing medication willy-nilly. In a truly libertarian environment, physicians would command very low salaries.

It is truly ironic to see physicians advocate for less government involvement when their rent-seeking ability is predicated on a government-enforced supply cap.

 

[darknecrosforte]

The government is the sole reason that physicians can command high salaries. If not for licensing requirements to practice medicine, any ***** can open up a clinic and start prescribing medication willy-nilly. In a truly libertarian environment, physicians would command very low salaries.

It is truly ironic to see physicians advocate for less government involvement when their rent-seeking ability is predicated on a government-enforced supply cap.

That's like saying great restaurants would have lower health standards and quality without government regulations. And that people would repeatedly go to lower educated people for surgery. If people go to RNs and NPs for sore throats, good on them, but that won't deter people who want to go to a doctor when they want to "visit the doctor". Private review websites like Yelp, etc. and the ability to search credentials online aren't things to overlook when you imagine the willy-nilly scenario.

A similar scenario concerns personal training which is completely unregulated. The AVERAGE independent hourly rate is $50 per hour in California, a heavily saturated state. For a non-compete gym worker, the average is $20. People generally like credentials to initially justify paying higher rates, but in the end, reputation and a combination of results and knowledge are what drives many trainers to earn over $100 per hour. It isn't hard to imagine that between the trainers with degrees in exercise physiology and the weekend certifications, the parallel willy-nilly scenario might be similar except for a stronger bias toward better-trained physicians.

The government is also the reason for inflation in the tuition bubble, which is a big reason why physicians cannot even think of taking lower salaries -_____-

 

[WilcoWorld]

Don't pat yourself on the back for supporting redistribution via threat of violence.

Huh? Please explain.

 

[deleted480308]

Huh? Please explain.

If you don't pay the taxes required of you to satisfy your neighbor's charitable inclinations they send men with guns to your home to take your posessions and throw you in a cage

 

[deleted480308]

The government is the sole reason that physicians can command high salaries. If not for licensing requirements to practice medicine, any ***** can open up a clinic and start prescribing medication willy-nilly. In a truly libertarian environment, physicians would command very low salaries.

It is truly ironic to see physicians advocate for less government involvement when their rent-seeking ability is predicated on a government-enforced supply cap.

We should make what the market bears...I'm not a fan of government protectionism

 

[dozitgetchahi]

We should make what the market bears...I'm not a fan of government protectionism

The quickest way to determine this is to eliminate all private insurance and government-sponsored health care and have everyone pay cash.

 

[darknecrosforte]

The quickest way to determine this is to eliminate all private insurance and government-sponsored health care and have everyone pay cash.

The quickest way to determine this is to eliminate government

There, fixed it for you.

 

[GeneralVeers]

I think the answer is simple. There should be no confiscation of "other people's money". If you want to vote for the candidate who feels that society should provide free healthcare, food, housing to everyone, then you can vote for them. Your vote will be recorded, and you will have an additional amount deducted from your income. That amount will be based on the amount of money that the candidate/party wants to spend. It would be non-deductible and would apply regardless of income, or how much you pay in other taxes.

If people are spending their own money on these programs rather than other people's, I suspect voting patterns would change and we would be much more frugal with our social programs.

 

[meister]

e: wrong thread

 

[RustedFox]

I agree that single payer is a threat to "us". But it's not really about "us". When I was a med student, I remember being bored on some rotation, (maybe anesthesia in the PACU) and got to talking to a patient. It was probably during Obama's second campaign or around the time of the election and somehow politics came up. I remember saying something to the effect of "Politicians are all the same. No matter who wins, I'm gonna be just fine". It was naive to say but it was true. I'm a doctor and I'm gonna have a good life no matter what. The patient's response stuck with me to this day. He said "Brotha, you don't vote for yourself, you vote for those who are less fortunate than you." I don't mean to over-dramatize the story but it really influenced my thinking since.

I'm not for single payer because of "class warfare" or "re-distribution of wealth". I honestly think it's the best system for the population as a whole. Private insurance is an awful middle man industry that doesn't care about the patient one iota. I'll take the government as the lesser of the two evils. I'm in my last year of residency and signed a two year contract as an internal locums for a CMG and am getting paid a ****load of money for it. I also think these are actually the golden years of EM and I'm going to try to take advantage of it while I can. I fully expect that our reimbursement will go down, but I'm perfectly OK with that as long as it benefits those less fortunate than me and our healthcare system as a whole.

That is quite literally the dumbest thing I have heard this year. The government is not the "fairness nanny". Voting for someone else ?! Please, feel free to give everything you have away for free... Watch as the dependency that you create ruins everything for everyone.

Give a man a fish...

 

[jdh71]

Your response is hilarious. Just like the multi-millionaire athlete who sits out training camp for more money "to put food on the table". It's completely disingenuous. You have every right to want to make as much money as possible but spinning it like your family will struggle if you make a little less is quite frankly BS.

I don't feel a charitable compulsion to a particular person. I feel one to everyone who doesn't have access to affordable basic healthcare services.

I'm not gonna change your mind, you're not going to change mine. Just sharing my perspective to add to the conversation. I have no interest in further debating with strangers on the internet.

You completely missed his point, which wasn't a "cry the poor house" argument about his kids starving.

When you advocate for what you are, you saying what is mine isn't mine, it is someone else's, when it sure seems like mine, no one else earned it.

Now, I'm a big believer in a social contract, and I do like roads, police, and firemen. Even though income taxes are immoral (though not all taxes are immoral - such as excise taxes) in that it is nothing more than legalized theft, it is the system we have. I can't realistically fight the system and I don't like being in jail, so how much more than the 40% of my income I pay at the top end do YOU think I need to still give here?? Every dollar. Four dimes to the Federal Government. How much more should I "give" (have taken from me)? This is a serious question. Because I think if you're not happy with 40% then **** you.

 

[jdh71]

The government is the sole reason that physicians can command high salaries. If not for licensing requirements to practice medicine, any ***** can open up a clinic and start prescribing medication willy-nilly. In a truly libertarian environment, physicians would command very low salaries.

It is truly ironic to see physicians advocate for less government involvement when their rent-seeking ability is predicated on a government-enforced supply cap.

This is true in some points and nonsense in others. We do have a protected guild and it is precissely because of governemnt intervention that we do command the salaries we do currently. It's not a free market. But to then suggest physicians would get "very low" salaries is ******ed. A person's income is largely determined by their relative replaceability, importance of their work, and their uniqueness. So if you have someone who does an important job, is hard to replace, and is unique (relatively speaking) from everyone else in their job, they will get paid more than most people.

 

[The White Coat Investor]

Matt Yglesias hates physicians and has a long history of declaring his frustration/envy that Internet bloggers don't make as much. See here:

http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2013/11/20/doctors_pay_under_obamacare_cut_the_whining.html

Why don't bloggers make as much? It's a lot easier to make money blogging than seeing patients in my view. How can you treat a million patients at once and while you sleep?

The only reason a blogger makes less than a doctor is if the blogger isn't writing anything anyone else wants to read. If you're generating good content and marketing yourself well, you should be able to outpace a typical physician salary within a few years. There aren't a lot of professions where everybody in the world can be your customer at any given time and all at the same time.

 

[Restart13]

So with all these cuts to reimbursement rates, EM=FM salary, except you work random hours + trauma...

 

[da8s0859q]

So with all these cuts to reimbursement rates, EM=FM salary, except you work random hours + trauma...

If EM didn't afford the semi-premium salary and hour count compared to other specialties in exchange for what we do, it would be much less popular for precisely these reasons -- for both those in it as well as those hoping to get into it.

I'm as pragmatic as anyone here, but the powers that be know this. I don't think the sky is going to fall. Irregular hours, incredibly sad and terrible things, traumas, a disproportionate number of difficult patients depending on where you are, logistical headaches... taking away the perks of the job without any compensation in some other way would be a bad, bad idea.

 

[Dre8]

For all of you saying CMGs are paying you well, I have worked for a CMG in Louisiana making $200/HR. Great payer mix, lousy location. Worked in TN for 4 years, and after making partner after 2 years I made $350/HR. Ok Payor mix. Now back in La, non-CMG job I make $375/HR. Good Payor mix. (the non CMG jobs pay varies some, but stays in that range +/- 10%).

I realize the above might come across as bragging, but I post twice per year, and I am planning on staying anonymous and an irrelevant member of this community. I have certainly been lucky with my jobs, but my point is that we should be making $250/HR at only the crummiest locations and $500/HR at the best ones.

 

[Mad Jack]

I agree that single payer is a threat to "us". But it's not really about "us". When I was a med student, I remember being bored on some rotation, (maybe anesthesia in the PACU) and got to talking to a patient. It was probably during Obama's second campaign or around the time of the election and somehow politics came up. I remember saying something to the effect of "Politicians are all the same. No matter who wins, I'm gonna be just fine". It was naive to say but it was true. I'm a doctor and I'm gonna have a good life no matter what. The patient's response stuck with me to this day. He said "Brotha, you don't vote for yourself, you vote for those who are less fortunate than you." I don't mean to over-dramatize the story but it really influenced my thinking since.

I'm not for single payer because of "class warfare" or "re-distribution of wealth". I honestly think it's the best system for the population as a whole. Private insurance is an awful middle man industry that doesn't care about the patient one iota. I'll take the government as the lesser of the two evils. I'm in my last year of residency and signed a two year contract as an internal locums for a CMG and am getting paid a ****load of money for it. I also think these are actually the golden years of EM and I'm going to try to take advantage of it while I can. I fully expect that our reimbursement will go down, but I'm perfectly OK with that as long as it benefits those less fortunate than me and our healthcare system as a whole.

I've got 400k in debt I can't afford to pay off under European wages. If they pay off my debt, fine, they can pay me less, but until then, idgaf about what the public wants because they aren't entitled to the education I'm paying more for than most people in the world earn in a lifetime.

 

[Mad Jack]

Matt Yglesias hates physicians and has a long history of declaring his frustration/envy that Internet bloggers don't make as much. See here:

http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2013/11/20/doctors_pay_under_obamacare_cut_the_whining.html

http://www.somethingawful.com/feature-articles/matt-yglesias-slate/1/

He's basically one of the worst writers on the internet. That he holds such a high position at Vox shows what a piece of garbage that site is.

 

[jdh71]

For all of you saying CMGs are paying you well, I have worked for a CMG in Louisiana making $200/HR. Great payer mix, lousy location. Worked in TN for 4 years, and after making partner after 2 years I made $350/HR. Ok Payor mix. Now back in La, non-CMG job I make $375/HR. Good Payor mix. (the non CMG jobs pay varies some, but stays in that range +/- 10%).

I realize the above might come across as bragging, but I post twice per year, and I am planning on staying anonymous and an irrelevant member of this community. I have certainly been lucky with my jobs, but my point is that we should be making $250/HR at only the crummiest locations and $500/HR at the best ones.

That's really nice scratch, and you obviously should get while the getting is good, but I don't see how that is a realistic pay scale going forward. In most cases this will be paying folks more than the work can bring in with a rvu compensation model, which is how we are all going to be paid, even if you can still find spots where this isn't strictly the case. Even at 50 bucks per wrvu (which by my quick google appears to be the middle range for EM) is still paying a guy more than he's producing even for a 2 hour critical care bill by paying him @ $500/hour.

 

[Angry Birds]

I second whoever said that if they want to pay us European wages, they have to take care of our student debt first.

 

[GeneralVeers]

I second whoever said that if they want to pay us European wages, they have to take care of our student debt first.

Even then it's a bad deal. If they wiped out my 150K of debt, but cut my salary from 500K to 100K like European doctors get, it would be a net HUGE loss for us.

 

[Angry Birds]

Even then it's a bad deal. If they wiped out my 150K of debt, but cut my salary from 500K to 100K like European doctors get, it would be a net HUGE loss for us.

I don't disagree with this.

 

[RustedFox]

Even then it's a bad deal. If they wiped out my 150K of debt, but cut my salary from 500K to 100K like European doctors get, it would be a net HUGE loss for us.

Why would I spend a decade in school to earn only 100k a year when I can spend 4 years in school and make the same ?

 

[WilcoWorld]

Why would I spend a decade in school to earn only 100k a year when I can spend 4 years in school and make the same ?

Because you want to be a doctor?

[ducks the multiple objects being thrown at head]

 

[da8s0859q]

Because you want to be a doctor?

[ducks the multiple objects being thrown at head]

I can just see the premeds and early med students nodding at their screens and muttering "exactly!"

 

[GeneralVeers]

Because you want to be a doctor?

[ducks the multiple objects being thrown at head]

I wouldn't be a doctor for $50/hour. I would do something else. As with everything it's supply and demand. Doctors tend to be intelligent, talented, ambitious people. If you reduce the incentive to become a doctor, many (not all) of those people will go into other professions. If I could make the same without incurring the school debt, liability, and tough schedule, why would I be a doctor?

 

[WilcoWorld]

I wouldn't be a doctor for $50/hour. I would do something else. As with everything it's supply and demand. Doctors tend to be intelligent, talented, ambitious people. If you reduce the incentive to become a doctor, many (not all) of those people will go into other professions. If I could make the same without incurring the school debt, liability, and tough schedule, why would I be a doctor?

Well, because you want to be a doctor.

Now, this raises the question of why someone would want to be a doctor in this situation. I'm sure there are plenty of idealistic pre meds ready to educate us crusty ol' practitioners on that front.