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Sketchiest/ Worst DO schools...Which Schools are For-profit?
- Thread starter rubisco88
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If those ladies are smart, they'll run screaming in the other direction... 
So, since I'm married, and a woman, what am I supposed to judge a school on! It can't be how many hot chicks there are!
So, since I'm married, and a woman, what am I supposed to judge a school on! It can't be how many hot chicks there are!
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If those ladies are smart, they'll run screaming in the other direction...
Total number of doctors with british or western european accents
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Side note to Torr: I see you still only rocking one dancing monkey
How'd it slip my mind! Rectified
+1 on British accents.
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I need Aussies... The brits are ok, but not quite as good as the Aussies, French, well I speak it, and so it's less impressive... Maybe Italian... German OUT... Hmm, Spanish might work (ala Spanish Buzz in Toy Story 3)... That's an idea DocE... But then I would just be distracted... I asked my husband once to keep a message from a customer who is an Aussie, told him to keep it so I could just listen to it when I felt like it... he laughed at me when he deleted it a week later
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There's a "Jewiest" DO school? Do I get extra adcom points for being Jewish?
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Touro is very jewish. This is especially true for the NY one. It just might get you extra adcom points in the 'intangibles'. אתה מוזמן, ידידי
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It says right on their sites they are a Jewish school and that while they don't select students based on religion (cause that's illegal) you should be prepared to be in a school where a large portion of the people attending or teaching are Jewish. They also are closed for Jewish holidays and not Christian ones... http://tun.touro.edu/about-touro/university-calendar/ So, no Christmas off if you go to school there and you're not Jewish...
http://tun.touro.edu/about-touro/university-calendar/ So, no Christmas off if you go to school there and you're not Jewish...
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It says right on their sites they are a Jewish school and that while they don't select students based on religion (cause that's illegal) you should be prepared to be in a school where a large portion of the people attending or teaching are Jewish. They also are closed for Jewish holidays and not Christian ones...
You totally get christmas and easter off. They're just framed as "winter break" and "spring break". I didn't even get easter off at my state college undergrad. I do at my jewish medical school. Wrap your head around that.
What they dont give us is random federal holidays off. Just winter break (aka christmas), spring break (aka easter), and the jewish holidays.
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I thought ATSU-SOMA kinda sucked pretty bad...
...but seriously, it did.
Why? Or am I not getting something?
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It says right on their sites they are a Jewish school and that while they don't select students based on religion (cause that's illegal) you should be prepared to be in a school where a large portion of the people attending or teaching are Jewish. They also are closed for Jewish holidays and not Christian ones...
Is it illegal? I doubt that. Loma Linda in the allo world gives preference to applicants who are Seventh-day Adventists.
Also, as far as Touro not giving Christian holidays off, I just checked Touro-Ca, and they do get Christmas off. Also, as Christmas is the only Christian holiday that is also a federal holiday, you could argue that Touro students have more holidays than every one else.
I doubt the faculty is anything close to 100% Jewish, so I bet they too would be up in arms I'd they didn't get Christmas off.
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It says right on their sites they are a Jewish school and that while they don't select students based on religion (cause that's illegal) you should be prepared to be in a school where a large portion of the people attending or teaching are Jewish. They also are closed for Jewish holidays and not Christian ones...
Wow! That would be incredible. I am approximately 1 of 5 Jewish people in my entire state, so that would be a really exciting experience.
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Really? What state are you from?
I've been all over the South, but right now I'm in GA. There are so few Jewish people here that I literally get asked by random people in public if I'm Jewish, just based on my name, as if I'm from another country. The other day I was asked in the gas station if I was Hasidic. My beard was kind of full, I guess. Anyway, it's bizarre.
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Did you look at the calendar? There isn't a single day the school is closed in Dec. Easter usually is very close to Passover, soooo that's not a shocker... but still, Christian holidays are not listed as time off, that's all I can base it off of
Haha, yes, they probably do get more holidays than anyone else, I just know when I read the 'about our school' stuff on Touro-NV I remember feeling like it should be in NYC (like the other) but then being thankful that I have Jewish relatives who have explained all the holidays to me, so I am at least a bit familiar with some customs, as to not be dissuaded to apply...
About Loma Linda, I looked at their 'selection criteria' and they have to throw out the "no candidate is accepted on religious affiliation alone". Technically, if a student were denied, and could prove they were denied ONLY because they weren't Adventists, they could sue for religious discrimination. The fact that they even say it on their website is rather appalling, but... I'm not applying to any school in CA, soooo I'm not worried... I looked into some legal action that has been taken against Loma Linda (it has happened more than once) in regards to religious discrimination.
Edit:
Apparently, because they're a Church, they're exempt from the 'religious discrimination' EOA regulations about hiring/firing/acceptances. A woman was fired from the library because she was unwed and pregnant, the courts sided with Loma Linda because the woman had signed their conduct agreement.... So, it's clearly not a cut/dried issue, and it has come up more than once that if a private school of any kind can't discriminate based on race, they shouldn't be able to do so based on religion. A person is Jewish by birth, so you are essentially saying that because a person was born into a religion, they aren't going to be accepted... that to me is the same as saying, "you're not white, we won't admit you"... That is crap...
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Did you look at the calendar? There isn't a single day the school is closed in Dec. Easter usually is very close to Passover, soooo that's not a shocker... but still, Christian holidays are not listed as time off, that's all I can base it off of
Haha, yes, they probably do get more holidays than anyone else, I just know when I read the 'about our school' stuff on Touro-NV I remember feeling like it should be in NYC (like the other) but then being thankful that I have Jewish relatives who have explained all the holidays to me, so I am at least a bit familiar with some customs, as to not be dissuaded to apply... About Loma Linda, I looked at their 'selection criteria' and they have to throw out the "no candidate is accepted on religious affiliation alone". Technically, if a student were denied, and could prove they were denied ONLY because they weren't
Adventists, they could sue for religious discrimination. The fact that they even say it on their website is rather appalling, but... I'm not applying to any school in CA, soooo I'm not worried...
I totally agree with the California thing... and I say that having lived there for a very long time. I might apply to Western, though. I just don't see myself there long-term.
Did you look at the calendar? There isn't a single day the school is closed in Dec. Easter usually is very close to Passover, soooo that's not a shocker... but still, Christian holidays are not listed as time off, that's all I can base it off of
Are you seriously trying to argue with Touro students about our own academic calendar?
Haha.
That is the calendar for when campus is open.
I disagree with this.For starters, one can be born into Judaism, but they can also convert (just fyi). Also, How is this any different from how the traditionally African American medical schools operate? Do we complain about their demographics?
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I just wanted to give some quick thoughts about LECOM for you guys:
Overall, LECOM-B is a great school. There are a variety of small things that people don't like, but you can't please everyone.
Some things people tend to not like: No eating or drinking outside the cafeteria, having to scan an ID badge to get in the building, dress code, not enough lectures (PBL), too many lectures (PBL)...
I think the PBL program is top notch if you are good at learning that way. You have to be very motivated. As one of our teachers likes to say, "there is nothing in medical school that you haven't taught yourselves."
Our OMM stuff could be better, but is pretty good. The instructor is a very nice guy, who is extremely good at doing OMM. He's not a great lecturer though, but it's not a big deal. Get the green book, you'll be fine.
The Clinical Skills class could be better. I found the lectures often worthless, sometimes very good. Standardized patients are pretty good for what they are. Overall, I feel like they trained us well, even if it was overkill.
I would say there could be better integration between PBL, OMM, and CE. For example, if we're doing a heart case in PBL, let's learn about thoracic OMM and the Cardiac Exam.
3rd and 4th year: This is where things start falling apart a bit for most people. I've had a very good experience with our Office of Clinical Education, but many people have not. You have a LOT of freedom to decide where and when to do your rotations. But, you have to do the legwork yourself. So, some people complain that they can't find a peds rotation, and that school won't help them (they usually will, at the last minute, if you've been unable to procure something on your own). LECOM does have a large list of affiliates spread over Florida and the Northeast that we get to pick from during 2nd year. Searching for spots only applies if you want to go live somewhere that's not on this list, or if those spots get taken.
Our director of Clinical Education can be a bit gruff and put people off at times. He's a former military orthopedic surgeon NE italian, so you can imagine the type. He's always been nice to me, but you don't want to get on his list. Follow the rules, do things on time, and it won't be a problem.
Another common complaint is that LECOM doesn't pay our clinical rotation sites to take students. This has lead to some good sites not taking us, in favor of other students who do pay. I think LECOM's philosophy here is that if we have to pay someone to take a student, then that place probably doesn't want students anyways, and is just doing it for the money. Which is probably often true. On the other hand, by not paying, we can be sure that our preceptors want us there, but the experiences may be arguably not as good as if we'd shelled out loads of cash to Sarasota Memorial.
Overall, I've been very happy here. I would say to look elsewhere if your interests lie in heavy research or academia. Otherwise, the cheap tuition is great, the PBL program can't be beat for freedom and flexibility, and area is beautiful with great weather, beaches, fun things to do.
Overall, LECOM-B is a great school. There are a variety of small things that people don't like, but you can't please everyone.
Some things people tend to not like: No eating or drinking outside the cafeteria, having to scan an ID badge to get in the building, dress code, not enough lectures (PBL), too many lectures (PBL)...
I think the PBL program is top notch if you are good at learning that way. You have to be very motivated. As one of our teachers likes to say, "there is nothing in medical school that you haven't taught yourselves."
Our OMM stuff could be better, but is pretty good. The instructor is a very nice guy, who is extremely good at doing OMM. He's not a great lecturer though, but it's not a big deal. Get the green book, you'll be fine.
The Clinical Skills class could be better. I found the lectures often worthless, sometimes very good. Standardized patients are pretty good for what they are. Overall, I feel like they trained us well, even if it was overkill.
I would say there could be better integration between PBL, OMM, and CE. For example, if we're doing a heart case in PBL, let's learn about thoracic OMM and the Cardiac Exam.
3rd and 4th year: This is where things start falling apart a bit for most people. I've had a very good experience with our Office of Clinical Education, but many people have not. You have a LOT of freedom to decide where and when to do your rotations. But, you have to do the legwork yourself. So, some people complain that they can't find a peds rotation, and that school won't help them (they usually will, at the last minute, if you've been unable to procure something on your own). LECOM does have a large list of affiliates spread over Florida and the Northeast that we get to pick from during 2nd year. Searching for spots only applies if you want to go live somewhere that's not on this list, or if those spots get taken.
Our director of Clinical Education can be a bit gruff and put people off at times. He's a former military orthopedic surgeon NE italian, so you can imagine the type. He's always been nice to me, but you don't want to get on his list. Follow the rules, do things on time, and it won't be a problem.
Another common complaint is that LECOM doesn't pay our clinical rotation sites to take students. This has lead to some good sites not taking us, in favor of other students who do pay. I think LECOM's philosophy here is that if we have to pay someone to take a student, then that place probably doesn't want students anyways, and is just doing it for the money. Which is probably often true. On the other hand, by not paying, we can be sure that our preceptors want us there, but the experiences may be arguably not as good as if we'd shelled out loads of cash to Sarasota Memorial.
Overall, I've been very happy here. I would say to look elsewhere if your interests lie in heavy research or academia. Otherwise, the cheap tuition is great, the PBL program can't be beat for freedom and flexibility, and area is beautiful with great weather, beaches, fun things to do.
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Are you seriously trying to argue with Touro students about our own academic calendar?
Haha.
That is the calendar for when campus is open.
Did I disagree? No, I said all I can do is base it on what they post because I'm not a student.
You're right, you can convert, but for most people, they were born into the religion. Personally, places like Howard, don't state outright that you need to be black to apply. They are more likely to accept minority students, but they don't say "well, we leave a few spots for white students too" on their admissions site...
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Did you look at the calendar? There isn't a single day the school is closed in Dec. Easter usually is very close to Passover, soooo that's not a shocker... but still, Christian holidays are not listed as time off, that's all I can base it off of
Didn't look at the TUNV calendar, so I'm going to assume you're right about touroNV, but I was talking about TouroCOM-NY. Perhaps I should have made that more clear. We get a month off from about the 15th of december to the 13th of january and half a month off from April 14th to May 2nd. There was also, just this year, a clumping of all the jewish holidays in september together on middle-of-the-week days. So they decided rather than having off this day, on this day and off the next day, they gave us nearly all of september off.
We do start crazy early (orientation is the end of june, though that is flexible year-to-year as well), but we have these nice block holidays whenever jewishholidays fall near "classic tme off" holidays. As I noted before, its funny that I never got one easter week off at my state school, but I totally do at my jewish school because its smack dab next to passover.
Right. This is the point I was making- why make it seems as though we don't have the standard holidays off, when you aren't even a student and wouldn't know our schedule?
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Yeah, I go to ATSU-KCOM, but I didn't even send in my secondary for ATSU-Soma after researching the program a bit more. My thoughts kind of echoed yours. Honestly, I think it's a good program for a certain learning style, a certain type of person, someone gearing toward a certain type of practice, etc, but it just wasn't for me, and I think a lot of people feel the same way.
I'm sure they'll put out competent DOs and I do think it's cool they are trying to tweak the norm a bit, but, again, just not for everyone (myself included).
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well, they must be doing something right, cause their match list this year kicked ass.
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If I've learned one thing from my time in medical school, it's that match lists are VERY VERY subjective. For example, in my class, I know of about 10 people who got >240 on USMLE, are in the top 25% (if not top 10%) of students in the class, and all of whom are going into Pediatrics and want rather unimpressive programs for various family or personal reasons. They'll likely get those programs, but it won't look very impressive on a match list.
Anyways, just because a school matches 20 people to Specialty X at Program Y does not make it a good school. Maybe those people knew someone, maybe they were from that town, maybe maybe maybe...
Take all match lists with a giant grain of salt.
I decided to attend SOMA over several other programs because of the unique opportunities it presented. It is not accurate to say SOMA only trains physicians for certain types of specialites. Their first match list shot that notion down.
It is ultimately up to the person attending to decide their own medical future, there are no restrictions. It is a unique school in many ways, I was attracted to the autonomy after your 1st year, working with patients 2nd year, the excitement the professors had for the program AND the ability to shape my own path.
Just my 2 cents! It's not for everyone....but it is for me
It is ultimately up to the person attending to decide their own medical future, there are no restrictions. It is a unique school in many ways, I was attracted to the autonomy after your 1st year, working with patients 2nd year, the excitement the professors had for the program AND the ability to shape my own path.
Just my 2 cents! It's not for everyone....but it is for me
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Guys,
I'm not trying to bash SOMA at all, and like digitl stated, I don't put much stock in matchlists as anything besides what was popular in a certain class that year. However, all I was trying to say is that SOMA is a unique program, I think it's geared toward a certain type of student, and it wasn't for me. Period. Nothing more, nothing less. Additionally, I haven't seen any matchlists from them, so I can't really comment on how much they 'kicked ass.'
I'm not trying to bash SOMA at all, and like digitl stated, I don't put much stock in matchlists as anything besides what was popular in a certain class that year. However, all I was trying to say is that SOMA is a unique program, I think it's geared toward a certain type of student, and it wasn't for me. Period. Nothing more, nothing less. Additionally, I haven't seen any matchlists from them, so I can't really comment on how much they 'kicked ass.'
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The schools I am familiar with list when breaks are, since TUNV doesn't list time off for breaks for December, it isn't an impossible jump to say there isn't time off when ALL the other major Jewish holidays are listed. I didn't make some wild assumption, I even posted the link for the schools calendar... So, DocE says they get most of Dec off, ok great, they don't HAVE to give you Easter/Christmas off, it is likely they would because of standard breaks, but it isn't a requirement... As DocE said, they have an entirely goofy schedule...
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I'll say this about SOMA: I applaud their courage in adopting a new type of curriculum. I know nothing about the quality of the execution of their program, but the concept seems, to me at least, to be great. I actually wish I'd known about them when I applied to schools, because I didn't apply there and I certainly would have if I'd known about that curriculum, because I think it would fit how I learn extremely well, perhaps even better than LECOM-B's PBL program, which is similar.
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A school is still, to some extent, a business. Healthcare itself is to some extent at least, a business (even AMSA which is all about community involvement/volunteering/humanism, etc. had an article in TNP about this in the current issue). Schools, hospitals, doctors--they are there to help people, yes, but they also have to stay afloat financially to be successful.
I go to Touro NV. I'm happy there, the faculty are great and very intelligent, the OMM department is very organized and well-run. One of our anatomy professors writes a review book that is used nationally (Rapid Review).
I like the atmosphere, I feel like admin are available when I need them, and I like that its a smaller school. Its in Henderson, which is a nice area, and I feel completely comfortable when I leave school at 9 PM and walk to my car in the night. I also get to live with my family, which is a plus not just financially, but emotionally as well.
The technology here is also pretty good, all lectures are recorded and put online so we can watch them later (save for a few technological mishaps).
Curriculum is subject-based first year and then we do clinical systems second year.
There are research opps here, too, if you want them and have the time.
There are a few things I thought were misguided policies, such as the laptop requirement (big heavy school-mandated laptop= not ideal for bringing to class every day) but in the end these are little things. I am impressed with both the clinical and basic science faculty and have met some of the preceptors as well. I think I made the right decision going here.
I go to Touro NV. I'm happy there, the faculty are great and very intelligent, the OMM department is very organized and well-run. One of our anatomy professors writes a review book that is used nationally (Rapid Review).
I like the atmosphere, I feel like admin are available when I need them, and I like that its a smaller school. Its in Henderson, which is a nice area, and I feel completely comfortable when I leave school at 9 PM and walk to my car in the night. I also get to live with my family, which is a plus not just financially, but emotionally as well.
The technology here is also pretty good, all lectures are recorded and put online so we can watch them later (save for a few technological mishaps).
Curriculum is subject-based first year and then we do clinical systems second year.
There are research opps here, too, if you want them and have the time.
There are a few things I thought were misguided policies, such as the laptop requirement (big heavy school-mandated laptop= not ideal for bringing to class every day) but in the end these are little things. I am impressed with both the clinical and basic science faculty and have met some of the preceptors as well. I think I made the right decision going here.
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I had an opportunity to meet with one of their regional clinical directors. He was a major jerk who was way too boastful of how unique the school is. I didn't understand their whole "progressive" curriculum(researched ATSU-KCOM instead, lol); apparently that was a no-no. After I understood SOMA, I was def. not interested.
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I had an opportunity to meet with one of their regional clinical directors. He was a major jerk who was way too boastful of how unique the school is. I didn't understand their whole "progressive" curriculum(researched ATSU-KCOM instead, lol); apparently that was a no-no. After I understood SOMA, I was def. not interested.
I got a tour their campus (it's small, didn't last long), but I quite liked it. Not that that's any real exposure, but I like the concept. I love the area it's in (albeit for one year) and that is enough for me to love the school, for now. They didn't seem to have any problems on the boards or in the match, so I don't worry about it too much. Then again, I can definately see how some people would be turned off... like Jagger said, it's a personal preference thing.
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The area it's in? It's in the middle of farmland on the outskirts of Phoenix (Mesa) and always smells like cow ****.
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Warm weather year around! And it's next to a field. That doesn't make it rural by any means.
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I love the smell of ... in the morning ... Smells like victory.
... Just kiddingggg
Again though, to each his own. I still feel like it's a unique program and suits certain students quite well. It seems like the people who went there did fine, so if you're looking for that type of education, may be worth checking out. Wasn't for me personally, but that doesn't mean much for the program quality or how it may work for someone else.
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Growing up in Idaho during the '80s you get used to it. They call it "the smell of money" out here.
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Well said, as always. I was skeptical about the program until it became obvious that their first class turned out just fine. Not to mention, they have the ATSU name to back them up. Who knows, it may not be for me either. I will worry more about that during application time though.
I'll tell you one thing... give it two years, and it will not be next to a field. That whole area of Mesa is growing like crazy.
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Fixed that for you. Phoenix, and it's surrounding metro areas, was one of the regions hardest hit by the recession/housing collapse. Phoenix was the fastest growing city in the country several years ago, and most of that development has stagnated. Mesa (as well as Chandler/Queen Creek) were exploding before the collapse, but now growth is almost negligible if not negative.
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Must smell like living next to the I-5.
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In fact, one of the major freeways here in the PHX valley runs right next to it. So, funky cow stank for your nose and freeway noise for your ears. Gets even better in a few months!
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I understand and agree with the advice to hold judgement on schools based on matchlists. A lot of DO schools put out a ton of primary care docs, I'd imagine it's got more to do with the type of students who choose DO (more primary care oriented) than the quality of the school or it's faculty etc.
But what I've always taken from Match lists is that students from that school were able to match into ultra competitive residencies. SOMA has some very impressive matches for this first class, neurosurg etc. I read that and take away the point that there's obviously not some fatal flaw that leaves student's ill prepared or un-competitive for whatever they want.
So yeah, tons of FP, Peds, or IM shouldn't be taken the wrong way. But if students are matching Ortho, Neurosurgery, etc, you can feel confident that the school didn't hinder them. Their training may have even been an asset.
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I agree mostly, but remember your sample size. How many Neurosurg has SOMA matched? One? Two? That's not really enough to say that it had ANYTHING to do with the school. Those people may have gotten neurosurg regardless of what school they went to. There's one in every class. We had a guy who scored a 278 on USMLE 1. I mean, come on. Really? Had nothing to do with the school. He would have gotten a great score no matter what.
Do we have a great program? Yes. Does that mean that you too can get 270+ and match neurosurg. Not even a little bit. We've even match a couple neurosurg in previous years, and I guarantee that they were also mutants.
I would tell most people to really consider what they want to do in the future. DO school is wonderful, and all my classmates are just as (if not more) competent than the MD students I've rotated with. That being said, if you KNOW that you want to do a specialty that is traditionally less-than-DO-friendly (like neurosurg) you may be better off in an allopathic program.
Honestly, there are so few times that this becomes an issue that I wouldn't recommend one degree over the other in most cases. My exceptions are:
1) You really want a future in research. Few DO schools have any serious research going on. You CAN always start later, but if you know this is what you want, you'd probably be happier at a large MD university (not a community MD program, which in most instances is very similar to a DO school).
2) You really want a DO "unfriendly" field (or specific program). There are very few DO "unfriendly" fields. Neurosurg is possibly one. I truly think this is less of a bias, than an unfamiliarity because so few DO's go into these fields. This rule also applies if you really REALLY want to go to a specific program, in a given field that is known to have a DO bias.
3) You know you want to do a VERY competitive field. How competitive? Depends somewhat on your testing ability and motivation. If you're a good test taker, and very motivated, then Rads, Gas, etc are VERY doable. If you want Neurosurg, Derm, or maybe Ophtho...I'd seriously consider the MD world, simply because admission to those fields is SO uber-competitive already (and research typically highly prized, see #1) that statistically you're hurting your chances in an already crazy competitive field by picking the DO school.
Anyways, please don't make this into another MD vs DO fight, lord knows the pre-med forum sees enough of these. I truly don't think one degree makes better docs than the other. I do think certain schools (MD or DO) can benefit you based on your career goals and you should choose accordingly.
For example, I knew that I wanted to do private practice in a small-ish town, I didn't want an uber-competitive field, and that research is the bane of my existence, and that if I ever have to pipette ANYTHING ever again, I might seriously hurt someone. As such, DO school is perfect for me.
Anyways, every licensed medical school in the USA has to meet certain standards, and you'll get a good education at all of them. Go for the lower tuition, meet your goals, work hard, and you'll be fine no matter what.
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I don't want to start a new thread or anything to post this, but I was looking through UW Seattle's PM&R program (arguably one of hte top in the country), and one of the current resident classes had like 3 or 4 students from DMU. Pretty cool.
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