So I just finished my first week of clinical rotations....

[Lord_Vader]

and I'm kind of having a love/hate relationship with 3rd year right now. I'm starting with surgery so maybe this is why I feel this way I do but I absolutely hate waking up at 4:30 in the morning and then staying in the hospital until 5-6 PM. Most of the time I'm not actually even doing anything important at the hospital. After morning rounds at 7:00 AM where we present our patients, we either go to the OR or go to the the clinic, both situations which are essentially shadowing experiences where we don't really do anything. The residents/attendings are nice but they pretty much treat us like we're not there 90% of the time. However the good thing is that I don't really have much to do once I get home unlike in 1st/2nd year. I hope I'm not getting too comfortable but after I get home I'm usually way too tired to even study and just do something to relax. I might read a few pages of Pastena's but usually I do something fun for a few hours before heading to bed at 10 PM. My question is does it get better or worse from here on out? At this point I am definitely not setting my eyes on going into surgery. The hours are unbearable.

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[alpinism]

Welcome to 3rd year...

On the bright side surgery is probably the worst in terms of hours with OB/GYN and IM right behind.

At the same time you're not going to have the luxury of coming home and relaxing most nights if you want to get honors or even high pass. All your classmates gunning for those grades are studying almost every night plus doing qbank questions on their phone all day. And, yeah 3rd year is basically 75% shadowing on most rotations unless you get lucky.

 

[Acetabulous]

From what you are saying, it seems as if your surgery rotation is actually somewhat "easy". What I mean is that many students have hours that are far worse (e.g. I was up at 3:30 am and home at 7-8 pm every day) or attendings/residents who treat students like they are scum. However, to answer your question more directly, there is no answer. I loved my surgery rotation, even with the aforementioned hours. At the same time, psychiatry repeatedly made me want to perform self-immolation, even though I rarely worked >40 hours per week.

Whether or not third year is enjoyable is entirely in the eye of the beholder. If you are shooting for a competitive specialty, you will find yourself having to "play the game" more than you could ever imagine. You will have obnoxious classmates who intentionally mow you down, others who brown-nose to the point of making you nauseous, and others who simply will not shut up and give you a chance to open your mouth. With that being said, you are given to opportunity to see some of the coolest things in the world, which only a fraction of a percentage of the population can say they've seen. If you go into third year with an open mind, true intentions, and a constant, nagging voice in your head telling you that each and every patient you see is having a far worse day than you are, it will all be okay.

 

[sazerac]

You spend long hours at work, but you aren't sure how you are contributing to either your own growth or the overall system? Sounds like 3rd year.

Matter of fact, it sounds like a lot of (non-medical) jobs I've had in the past.

 

[Psai]

Try being a third year at the end of the year just standing there and shadowing in the operating room all day when at your previous site you saw consults, followed up on patients, participated in the operations and closed on most of your cases

Then they get mad that you would rather do anything other than watch someone put some stitches on the port sites for the 100th laparoscopic whatever you've had the privilege of watching

When you find a good mentor, stick to them. They can be hard to find

 

[clausewitz2]

Yeah, the shadowing is much more tolerable at the beginning of the year. You might try being more aggressive in clinic - most gen surg clinic visits are not that complicated, even a new third year should be able to stumble through them.

 

[Dave89]

and I'm kind of having a love/hate relationship with 3rd year right now. I'm starting with surgery so maybe this is why I feel this way I do but I absolutely hate waking up at 4:30 in the morning and then staying in the hospital until 5-6 PM. Most of the time I'm not actually even doing anything important at the hospital. After morning rounds at 7:00 AM where we present our patients, we either go to the OR or go to the the clinic, both situations which are essentially shadowing experiences where we don't really do anything. The residents/attendings are nice but they pretty much treat us like we're not there 90% of the time. However the good thing is that I don't really have much to do once I get home unlike in 1st/2nd year. I hope I'm not getting too comfortable but after I get home I'm usually way too tired to even study and just do something to relax. I might read a few pages of Pastena's but usually I do something fun for a few hours before heading to bed at 10 PM. My question is does it get better or worse from here on out? At this point I am definitely not setting my eyes on going into surgery. The hours are unbearable.

It definitely gets better than Surgery... although, at many schools/sites, Ob/Gyn is even worse.

If you don't have any interest in entering a surgical field, try to skip out and study as much as you can. You'd be surprised at how manageable this is in 3rd year - if you play your cards right.

With that said, the rotation is a good time to get some exposure to some surgical specialties that you might be considering - e.g., urology.

 

[the argus]

Surgery is probably the worst 3rd year rotation in terms of shadowing vs. hands-on learning. This is because surgeons are usually very busy and what they do is complicated. That said, in my experience once individual attendings get to know you better and feel like you are worth spending time on, they will probably let you be a little more involved (just holding things mostly, maybe throw in some stitches). The best opportunity to form relationships with surgical attendings/residents usually comes not in the OR, but in clinic. If you engage patients, write notes, etc, they will notice and then involve you more in the OR. This was my experience at least.

You will definitely feel less like an observer during your other rotations. It's also important to remember that 3rd (and 4th) year is entirely what you make of it. If you work hard and seem interested in the first few weeks of a given rotation it usually pays huge dividends in the second half of the rotation, which is when attendings/residents will really let you be more involved.

 

[URHere]

I agree that Surgery and OB were a special kind of student-experience - mostly because time management is so important that it can be really difficult to let students really work-up/attempt to manage patients. In my experience, most surgical patients also have their diagnosis by the time the medical student sees them, which doesn't leave much to do except make sure they're fit for surgery and not experiencing complications afterwards.

This won't be the case on all of the other specialties. If you are competent, you will probably be allowed to work-up patients "independently" on family, IM, peds, psych, etc. Those specialties also prioritize note-writing so you will at least feel like you're doing something (even if what you write ends up being useless from a treatment/billing standpoint...which is a whole other issue).

As for studying at home...just do it. It's easy to slack off and just sleep but you'll really regret it once panic sets in the week before your shelf. Some of the self exams are brutal and they have made the difference between an HP and H for many students (myself included).

 

[JP2740]

3rd year was my least favorite of medical school

 

[operaman]

It will get better, but just how good it gets will depend a lot on how proactive you are. It's only the first week so it's perfectly natural to sit back and do more shadowing. Nobody expects you to know anything or be able to do anything in the first week either. That will change though, so don't get too comfortable.

Be observant of how things work and start thinking about how you can find ways to help your team and take on some of the workload. In clinic, ask the attending what their workflow is and if they would be okay with you seeing some patients first and presenting them. Some will say 'no' and others will say 'yes,' but you will often have to do the asking. Pay attention in the OR, prepare well for your cases, and always ask if you can scrub. As the case is ending, ask if you can help close the skin. Even if they say it's not a good time for whatever reason, it shows you're interested and they will probably let you do so later. On the floor, anytime something needs to be done (line placement, chest tube, NG tube, foley, removing all the above, removing drains, etc.), volunteer to help. Often the intern or junior will be tasked with these sorts of things, so just ask them if you can help out and most of the time they'll show you/let you do it. The more you do, the more you can help with these things and actually be useful.

The sad fact is that many/most third years just phone it in and don't really care. I'm not sure how much of this is them and how much of it is residents and attendings not adequately reaching out and involving them more, but that is still the perception. As a student, you really have to be proactive and demonstrate that you are not like that and that you really do want to learn and be involved.

 

[Psai]

The problem I'm having is trying to distinguish between trying to be proactive and avoiding being annoying. They can only say no enough times before I stop asking

 

[Frazier]

and I'm kind of having a love/hate relationship with 3rd year right now. I'm starting with surgery so maybe this is why I feel this way I do but I absolutely hate waking up at 4:30 in the morning and then staying in the hospital until 5-6 PM. Most of the time I'm not actually even doing anything important at the hospital. After morning rounds at 7:00 AM where we present our patients, we either go to the OR or go to the the clinic, both situations which are essentially shadowing experiences where we don't really do anything. The residents/attendings are nice but they pretty much treat us like we're not there 90% of the time. However the good thing is that I don't really have much to do once I get home unlike in 1st/2nd year. I hope I'm not getting too comfortable but after I get home I'm usually way too tired to even study and just do something to relax. I might read a few pages of Pastena's but usually I do something fun for a few hours before heading to bed at 10 PM. My question is does it get better or worse from here on out? At this point I am definitely not setting my eyes on going into surgery. The hours are unbearable.

My hours aren't as bad as what you listed and I haven't had much success with fitting in studying besides a couple case files while on the treadmill.

If you are getting even a few pages in each day: respect!

 

[Psai]

My hours aren't as bad as what you listed and I haven't had much success with fitting in studying besides a couple case files while on the treadmill.

If you are getting even a few pages in each day: respect!

At the beginning I thought that doing 7 to 4 sucked but when I was doing 6 to 8 with random overnights sprinkled in, I was like damn I was soft

 

[J ROD]

It is all a game. Play accordingly. Usually, surgery and OB are the worst. Peds is especially bad where I go. IM was in the middle. Enjoy FM and Psy.

Medicine for the most part is long hrs. You will find yourself to be in the way and not sure what to do at first. As the year goes along, you learn where to be and how to help and not be "that guy". Unless you are that guy, then well....sorry.

Just remember it is a marathon and not a sprint. And somewhere in there find what you want to do for the rest of your life.

 

[ACSurgeon]

I agree that Surgery and OB were a special kind of student-experience - mostly because time management is so important that it can be really difficult to let students really work-up/attempt to manage patients. In my experience, most surgical patients also have their diagnosis by the time the medical student sees them, which doesn't leave much to do except make sure they're fit for surgery and not experiencing complications afterwards.

This won't be the case on all of the other specialties. If you are competent, you will probably be allowed to work-up patients "independently" on family, IM, peds, psych, etc. Those specialties also prioritize note-writing so you will at least feel like you're doing something (even if what you write ends up being useless from a treatment/billing standpoint...which is a whole other issue).

As for studying at home...just do it. It's easy to slack off and just sleep but you'll really regret it once panic sets in the week before your shelf. Some of the self exams are brutal and they have made the difference between an HP and H for many students (myself included).

That and for all you know the week or two before the shelf can be unusually early mornings or long days. Study for your shelf up front.