Hi everyone, I just got accepted into the UNT health science center (fort worth, tx) masters in health administration program. I plan on attending if I don't get into pharmacy school here in the next 2 weeks. Who knows, I may use the masters or partial completion of a masters degree to get into the pharmacy schools I interviewed at this cycle, I may not, depends how motivated I still am after a potential rejection in the near future. Anyway, if I do decide to head down this path, I want to be involved in healthcare consulting with a respected firm. Obviously earning potential is important for me, so I was wondering if anyone could give me more insight or advice on what are the better paying areas with an MHA? How difficult is it to land a position in a consulting firm or even as a hospital administrator? Would I have to get a PhD to increase my earning potential and desirability by employers? Thanks again and I look forward to the responses.
So I want to get into Healthcare Consulting
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I don't know a ton about the MHA degree, but I work with a pharma consulting firm that employs at least a few folks with MHAs. In our firm, the PhD does increase your salary, though not by a great degree. If you are interested in pharma consulting, I can speak more to that, but if it's hospital administration that you're interested in, I don't have anything to add. Let me know.
What exactly does one in pharma consulting do? What state are you in? Whats the starting pay like and growth after 5 years? Assuming I have a 3.5+ GPA in graduate school how competitive will I be? Thanks for your response, I really do appreciate it!
this question may be better answered by someone in the field. i would suggest doing some research into what the major pharmaceutical consulting firms are and then emailing their contact. professionals are usually (and should be) more than willing to send you a few words to help you in your career choices, since they also received the same kind of guidance in their early days.
as for the validity of the mha versus the phd, it depends on what you're seeking to do. if you're doing management, there's no reason to go for the phd, as that doesn't help with the skills necessary for a management position. if you want to do the research end of consulting, then yes, the phd will give you a leg up in that sector of the firm. one thing to be aware of is that the mha degree is similar to getting a business degree, but specifically for the health sector. thus, firms will look at the prestige of the institution that you're getting your degree from (as with the mba). try not to just go to any school simply because you're accepted and needed a back-up plan for pharmacy school. you may very well end up wasting 2 years worth of tuition on a degree from an institution not highly valued by the big firms. again, these questions will be better answered by someone who is actually in pharmaceutical consulting.
hope that helps. best of luck getting into pharmacy school!
as for the validity of the mha versus the phd, it depends on what you're seeking to do. if you're doing management, there's no reason to go for the phd, as that doesn't help with the skills necessary for a management position. if you want to do the research end of consulting, then yes, the phd will give you a leg up in that sector of the firm. one thing to be aware of is that the mha degree is similar to getting a business degree, but specifically for the health sector. thus, firms will look at the prestige of the institution that you're getting your degree from (as with the mba). try not to just go to any school simply because you're accepted and needed a back-up plan for pharmacy school. you may very well end up wasting 2 years worth of tuition on a degree from an institution not highly valued by the big firms. again, these questions will be better answered by someone who is actually in pharmaceutical consulting.
hope that helps. best of luck getting into pharmacy school!
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sa278 - if I understand you correctly, you want to be doing healthcare consulting for like a BCG, McKinsey, Accenture ... or atleast firms consutling for the healthcare sector right?
I actually want to forray into healthcare consulting as well. But the thing is, I'm confused as to what exactly one needs to study.
According to me, an MBA is the conventional route to consulting, or with an undergrad BBA, a consulting job right out of college down the line allows you to get into healthcare consulting as the industry of interest.
Having said that, my situation is a tricky one. I did my undergrad in Psych, with a minor in Business. At the time, I never got any business/consulting jobs because I had no work experience. So I ended up at UPenn doing research after graduating from UT Austin.
I HATED clinical research. It was wayy to boring. Now I'm moved back home, (i.e - India) and am writing for a healthcare publication part time, and work as a Medical Writer for a healthcare brand solutions firm.
NOW - that I am considered grad school, I'm not sure what to do. As in should I be doing an MPH/MBA - or an MBA in healthcare? or a MHA.... I'm really confused.
Anyone with insights?
I actually want to forray into healthcare consulting as well. But the thing is, I'm confused as to what exactly one needs to study.
According to me, an MBA is the conventional route to consulting, or with an undergrad BBA, a consulting job right out of college down the line allows you to get into healthcare consulting as the industry of interest.
Having said that, my situation is a tricky one. I did my undergrad in Psych, with a minor in Business. At the time, I never got any business/consulting jobs because I had no work experience. So I ended up at UPenn doing research after graduating from UT Austin.
I HATED clinical research. It was wayy to boring. Now I'm moved back home, (i.e - India) and am writing for a healthcare publication part time, and work as a Medical Writer for a healthcare brand solutions firm.
NOW - that I am considered grad school, I'm not sure what to do. As in should I be doing an MPH/MBA - or an MBA in healthcare? or a MHA.... I'm really confused.
Anyone with insights?
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Hi everyone. Strictly from a graduate school perspective, if you want to get into consulting with a large, well-known, multidisciplinary (strategy, operations, IT, etc) consultancy, pursuing an MBA from a top-10 program is your best-bet. You would enter as a Senior Consultant. This past year, new MBAs commanded $125k starting salary at top firms (not including bonus).
Next, would be an MHA or MPH in Health Management and Policy from a top-10 program. Because these candidates generally lack previous business consulting experience, they generally enter as Consultants and are paid less. I believe Consultants earned ~$80k. More if they had previous experience.
Next, would be an MHA or MPH in Health Management and Policy from a top-10 program. Because these candidates generally lack previous business consulting experience, they generally enter as Consultants and are paid less. I believe Consultants earned ~$80k. More if they had previous experience.
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HCMCMPH : Hi everyone. Strictly from a graduate school perspective, if you want to get into consulting with a large, well-known, multidisciplinary (strategy, operations, IT, etc) consultancy, pursuing an MBA from a top-10 program is your best-bet. You would enter as a Senior Consultant. This past year, new MBAs commanded $125k starting salary at top firms (not including bonus).
Next, would be an MHA or MPH in Health Management and Policy from a top-10 program. Because these candidates generally lack previous business consulting experience, they generally enter as Consultants and are paid less. I believe Consultants earned ~$80k. More if they had previous experience.
Hey thanks for your reply. What you say makes sense, but to get into the a good MBA program - you need a solid amount of work experience. Even for a combined MBA/MPH degree.
I have clinical research experience, and writing for healthcare publications - I graduated last year. Consulting is a hard field to get into for me right now without work ex - which I need to get into a good MBA program. Its a bit of a catch 22.
In my position - do you think I should look into the MHA or MPH in health management and policy?
Also - what is the applicability of the MHA or MPH outside of the U.S? Do you think pursuing the degree in the U.S might restrict my scope?
Next, would be an MHA or MPH in Health Management and Policy from a top-10 program. Because these candidates generally lack previous business consulting experience, they generally enter as Consultants and are paid less. I believe Consultants earned ~$80k. More if they had previous experience.
Hey thanks for your reply. What you say makes sense, but to get into the a good MBA program - you need a solid amount of work experience. Even for a combined MBA/MPH degree.
I have clinical research experience, and writing for healthcare publications - I graduated last year. Consulting is a hard field to get into for me right now without work ex - which I need to get into a good MBA program. Its a bit of a catch 22.
In my position - do you think I should look into the MHA or MPH in health management and policy?
Also - what is the applicability of the MHA or MPH outside of the U.S? Do you think pursuing the degree in the U.S might restrict my scope?
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Excellent question. Programs vary between schools but I'd recommend either MHA or MPH so as long as it is 1) accredited by a well-recognized agency, 2) top-tier. Personally, I chose UCLA's MPH in Health Management & Policy; whose curriculum is very similar to MHA programs offered by schools of public health (e.g., UW's program).
If you plan to work internationally, choosing a program with a recognized global healthcare component (or by way of certificate program) should be considered. As you can imagine, the US healthcare system is rather different than others.
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It depends on how much experience you're able to gain after you complete your degree. A degree does not equal experience. To pursue senior level management positions, you need to display a history of performance and competence.
There's no doubt that a doctorate degree will increase your earning potentials and even open doors to specific opportunities (eg, chief medical officer, etc.).
There's no doubt that a doctorate degree will increase your earning potentials and even open doors to specific opportunities (eg, chief medical officer, etc.).
I was wondering what kind of work experience top health policy MPH programs look for in applicants? I have about a 3.5 upper division GPA from UCLA, but no real experience in the field. I have been doing clinical psychological research since college, and I'm basically deciding between clinical psych and health policy for grad- very different, I know.
Would my research experience count for something, and if not enough, what kinds of volunteer/work activities can I do to strengthen my application for a top health policy program?
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Not stupid at all... all 'consulting' stuff has some degree of ambiguity. So healthcare consulting is generally segmented into 2 specific industries: Provider (health care delivery industry) and Payor (insurance industry). Some firms would include Life Sciences (pharmaceutical and medical device industry).
And the type of work can be generalized to:
Provider - improve operations and increase efficiencies; increase quality of care
Payor - increase or defend market share, improve operations and increase efficiencies
Life Sciences - expand into new markets, improve operations and increase efficiencies
Most consultants end up specializing in one of these 3 industries.
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Thanks - that was definately helpful.
So I've narrowed down that I want to do my MPH in health management and policy. I felt like the MHA might be limited to the U.S only. But someone made a good point about looking into global health certications along with my degree which will definately help.
The thing is that I KNOW I want to come back to India (that's where i'm from), so I need to really make sure that what I study has applicability here... having said that, healthcare consulting is the track that I want to pursue.
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hey..i am from india as well, a dentist and looking for future MPH?MHA? career in usa..even in the longer run, i would like to settle in india..and i saw your post and was really able to relate to you..
well, just wanted to say hi and to let you know tht yes, there are many people like you who are looking for answers and we can correspond to each other abt our questions,doubts or whatever,,
take care and good luck !
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....
thanks for responding to that. I have my doubts a little, but i'm just going to go ahead and apply for fall 2009 anyway...
policy and management is what i think i will be concentrating in.
good luck to you too...
Guys.....
I am coming from a different background....so Can you please define what the firm is...
a day in healthcare firms please....
I am interested in both aspects the research and the helathcare management and I am thinking of a transition to industry or as a consultant in a firm like Mckenzie etc....But still I don't know much about firms....can you tell me ?
I am coming from a different background....so Can you please define what the firm is...
a day in healthcare firms please....
I am interested in both aspects the research and the helathcare management and I am thinking of a transition to industry or as a consultant in a firm like Mckenzie etc....But still I don't know much about firms....can you tell me ?
In also other words:
I want to combine both Research for the time being cause i really like it and work now in it especially in Oncology and at the same time combine it with Management like number 3 of what hmhcp said above....
I think my best bet will be the Life sciences section .
So I am confused as what degree exactly to pursue ? I was going for a Research Masters like in Cancer will that help or rather do a MHA in Health management policy ?
Which one will help me so as to combine research with consultancy ?
I want to combine both Research for the time being cause i really like it and work now in it especially in Oncology and at the same time combine it with Management like number 3 of what hmhcp said above....
I think my best bet will be the Life sciences section .
So I am confused as what degree exactly to pursue ? I was going for a Research Masters like in Cancer will that help or rather do a MHA in Health management policy ?
Which one will help me so as to combine research with consultancy ?
So If I want to specialize in Life sciences ...what shall i do ? I have a MD from an international country with masters in Hematology/Oncology.
Do I go for a Masters degree in Health Management and policy ? What is the difference between degrees of Health Administration and health management ?
This thread is over four years old, so I doubt any of the original posters will be here, but here are my somewhat uninformed thoughts.
If you want to get into healthcare consulting in a major firm like McKenzie or Bain, my feeling is you're better off with an MBA in healthcare management from a TOP business school. By top, I mean top 10 in the country. I'm talking like the Health Industry Management Program at Northwestern (Kellogg). Realistically though, the key to getting into one of these major firms, if there is one, is an MBA from a top business school like Harvard, Columbia, Stanford, UChicago, etc. They love prestige and "brand name" schools at those firms, and a lot of the people working at those firms are from these business schools. The MBA is also just much more recognized in those firms than an MPH or MHA is.
If you're set on an MPH for this, Harvard and Columbia would be your best bet, as the affiliation these firms have with those business schools would be helpful. After that, I would argue U Michigan is a good choice as they have a strong business school, powerful alumni network, and a great reputation in healthcare management. UC Berkeley, given its strong business school, would probably be a good choice as well. Beyond that, it gets a little fuzzier because these big firms inordinately care about idiotic stuff like Ivy League affiliation and as such honestly might value a Yale MPH over one from U Minnesota, despite the fact that U Minnesota is #2 in the country for healthcare administration.
Keep in mind, this is just for major consulting firms like McKenzie. I'm sure for healthcare consulting in general, it's not so intense, but my feeling for those big firms is that 1) MBA from a top business school is your real ticket in 2) They care way too much about name recognition and prestige, and 3) They probably won't value an MPH or MHA as highly as an MBA. Just my thoughts, based on what friends have told me when they worked for major consulting firms.
Edit: Just noticed you're already an MD. Given that, I would definitely say an MBA from a top business school would be more beneficial to getting into a major consulting firm than an MPH. You already have the medical knowledge with your MD training.
Another caveat, everyone I know who has been involved with major firm consulting hated it and burnt out after a few years...
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Burn out certainly common in consulting but also a very individualized experience. Meaning that two people with comparable backgrounds and capabilities working for the same firm at the same office can have two very different experiences. This is because the tone and flavor of the experience is highly variable depending on the project/case leadership style and the team composition.
I've been in consulting for over 12 years now, 8 with a large firm, and now with a boutique firm; and I still thoroughly enjoy the work. Sure there are tough moments and the occasional all-nighter but I expect that out of any high-paying career.
I agree with the previous poster that the school matters, more so for name recognition than anything else. Personally, I have an MPH in health management and policy from a well-recognized university that also has a top business school. It was a personal choice because of my interests in... well, public health and the betterment of the communities my clients serve.
If you envision yourself enjoying supply chain work or dealing with mergers and acquisitions within the life science or payer industries, a classic/traditional MBA (sans healthcare focus) would suit you better. I imagine most folks on this forum would already receive formal training in healthcare and would have familiarity working in a healthcare setting. Thus, getting more healthcare administrative training is a bit of a wasted opportunity in an MBA program. It is analogous to taking a foreign language course of the language you natively speak.
That said, if you do just want to be a hospital administrator some day and deal with day-to-day operations, I would suggest an MHA program.
The bottom line is: just go to a top-tier, well-recognized university for whichever Master's program you desire.
I've been in consulting for over 12 years now, 8 with a large firm, and now with a boutique firm; and I still thoroughly enjoy the work. Sure there are tough moments and the occasional all-nighter but I expect that out of any high-paying career.
I agree with the previous poster that the school matters, more so for name recognition than anything else. Personally, I have an MPH in health management and policy from a well-recognized university that also has a top business school. It was a personal choice because of my interests in... well, public health and the betterment of the communities my clients serve.
If you envision yourself enjoying supply chain work or dealing with mergers and acquisitions within the life science or payer industries, a classic/traditional MBA (sans healthcare focus) would suit you better. I imagine most folks on this forum would already receive formal training in healthcare and would have familiarity working in a healthcare setting. Thus, getting more healthcare administrative training is a bit of a wasted opportunity in an MBA program. It is analogous to taking a foreign language course of the language you natively speak.
That said, if you do just want to be a hospital administrator some day and deal with day-to-day operations, I would suggest an MHA program.
The bottom line is: just go to a top-tier, well-recognized university for whichever Master's program you desire.
Sthengie and HCMCMPH:
This may sound a bit different and basic But the only problem now I am having is I am still confused....
I don't want to go for the MBA right away cause I still like science and research not clinical though . I mean after all this is what I have been learned for the most of my life being an MD with masters in hematology .
I like also planning , strategic planning , traveling , dealing with companies and organizations related to the Health care system plus I am from Egypt so one day I will return back in like 5 years for example .
Thats why I am comparing between working in a pharmaceutical company and working in a firm ( which i don't know its definition yet ) or how exactly is work there ?
So in order for me to cut this out . Can you guys please describe a usual day in Mckenzie asa consultant ? How many hours a week you work ? what do you do exactly ? who do you deal with ? how much you get paid ? Do you deal with organizations and companies outside medical field ? ofcourse right ?
for HCMCMPH:
Is there something I can study and be sure that I can work both in research and at the same time a bit of a consultant ( planing , strategy etc...) I ve reached a conclusion that this is what a pharmaceutical company will provide....dont know though cause also the idea of only being working in a Lab is making me scared cause it might be boring on the long run...
look at this thread in order to get what I am saying...
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=977967
Can you tell me the pros and cons in your opinion of being a consultant ?
This may sound a bit different and basic But the only problem now I am having is I am still confused....
I don't want to go for the MBA right away cause I still like science and research not clinical though . I mean after all this is what I have been learned for the most of my life being an MD with masters in hematology .
I like also planning , strategic planning , traveling , dealing with companies and organizations related to the Health care system plus I am from Egypt so one day I will return back in like 5 years for example .
Thats why I am comparing between working in a pharmaceutical company and working in a firm ( which i don't know its definition yet ) or how exactly is work there ?
So in order for me to cut this out . Can you guys please describe a usual day in Mckenzie asa consultant ? How many hours a week you work ? what do you do exactly ? who do you deal with ? how much you get paid ? Do you deal with organizations and companies outside medical field ? ofcourse right ?
for HCMCMPH:
Is there something I can study and be sure that I can work both in research and at the same time a bit of a consultant ( planing , strategy etc...) I ve reached a conclusion that this is what a pharmaceutical company will provide....dont know though cause also the idea of only being working in a Lab is making me scared cause it might be boring on the long run...
look at this thread in order to get what I am saying...
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=977967
Can you tell me the pros and cons in your opinion of being a consultant ?
A usual day at McKinsey would involve a good amount of traveling in some departments, but the guarantee is incredibly long hours at the desk crunching numbers and interviewing clients (12-16 hour work days are normal, along with plenty of weekend work) and extremely lucrative pay, probably starting out at well above six digits and moving up from there pretty quickly. You work for that big salary, and from everyone I know at the big firms, you also lose some of your soul. Not having a social life outside of work sucks big time unless you are a natural workaholic. A few of my friends have said that the big firms tend to attract sociopaths as well, as they are the only people competitive enough to care only about their work day in and day out. Obviously the whole place isn't filled with sociopaths, but I can personally verify that pressure-cooker companies tend to produce not the nicest folk. It's a rough work environment for the vast majority of people.
You also need to understand that getting into big firms like McKinsey is incredibly hard. Again, they recruit mostly from the top 5 business schools. Other, smaller consultancies are probably your best bet unless you can A) secure a spot at a tip-top b-school and B) be very successful in that school and C) stand out enough from all the other cutthroat students to get the attention of the firm during interviews. You'll also need an amazing TOEFL score. Also, the vast majority of positions strategy or business/medical consultancies require an MBA, but some positions are open for those with other degrees.
I'm not saying that you can't do it (even if you don't attend a big b-school), but you should certainly be realistic about your chances and make sure to have lots of backup plans. You can't be too selective about where you want to work, otherwise you set yourself up for disappointment.
You also need to understand that getting into big firms like McKinsey is incredibly hard. Again, they recruit mostly from the top 5 business schools. Other, smaller consultancies are probably your best bet unless you can A) secure a spot at a tip-top b-school and B) be very successful in that school and C) stand out enough from all the other cutthroat students to get the attention of the firm during interviews. You'll also need an amazing TOEFL score. Also, the vast majority of positions strategy or business/medical consultancies require an MBA, but some positions are open for those with other degrees.
I'm not saying that you can't do it (even if you don't attend a big b-school), but you should certainly be realistic about your chances and make sure to have lots of backup plans. You can't be too selective about where you want to work, otherwise you set yourself up for disappointment.
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Definition of a "firm"
1: the name or title under which a company transacts business
2: a partnership of two or more persons that is not recognized as a legal person distinct from the members composing it
3: a business unit or enterprise
I work in healthcare consulting at a large firm and based on what you've described, I don't think it's what you're hoping for. You won't get opportunities to do science research as a consultant. Working at pharmaceutical company, though, doesn't mean you'll be working in a lab all the time. They have business/operations people who work on strategy and planning as well.
Pro's:
getting diverse experiences on various project types and clients, building a large network with people from different backgrounds, good pay & benefits, you get to avoid monotony
Con's:
not having a set schedule or knowing where you'll be working the next month (though some might think that's a pro), working long hours without appropriate compensation, traveling (it gets old after a while and isn't as glamorous as it sounds)
Also, there isn't really a "typical day" in the life of a consultant. All of these things vary: project types, team sizes, clients, project durations, locations, hours worked.
Hey,
I currently work for a firm that does health strategy/management consulting. I previously worked for a pharma consulting firm. We hire a bunch of MHAs from Umich and Cornell. However, my experience with consulting firms is the school matters. Top firms recruit at select schools (IVYs and top state schools). It is possible to get into one of these firms without an ivy degree, but you have to really shine. In terms of the type of work, MHAs generally enter consulting dealing with policy issues (e.g., ACOs, Bundled Payments, or regulations) or physician and hospital finance projects.
I currently work for a firm that does health strategy/management consulting. I previously worked for a pharma consulting firm. We hire a bunch of MHAs from Umich and Cornell. However, my experience with consulting firms is the school matters. Top firms recruit at select schools (IVYs and top state schools). It is possible to get into one of these firms without an ivy degree, but you have to really shine. In terms of the type of work, MHAs generally enter consulting dealing with policy issues (e.g., ACOs, Bundled Payments, or regulations) or physician and hospital finance projects.
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If you have a DO degree....do you need to get the MBA or MHA or another degree to get a healthcare consultant job? I know a few doctors personally that are physician consultants for insurance companies (she taught herself all the business stuff by owning/starting her own practice) and they don't have another degree...just wondering....don't know much about the field at all....
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bump
I am doing a top 20 MBA for this (at a school where healthcare is one of the main fields for graduates) combined with an MPH where I'm trying to get a ton of research experience. I recommend something similar. You want to be able to speak to the science not just the business side. Sounds like you might already have a science background so a top MBA with a healthcare business/consulting concentration is likely sufficient. Do not go to a "decent" school locally. Do not do that. Go to a top program. An MBA is really paying for the network, and a top MBA network is going to run laps around most MHA or MPH networks
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First of all, you guys keep talking about the TOP healthcare consulting firms. There are SO many healthcare firms and/or firms with huge healthcare divisions. Just keep your eyes open for what you want to do in the short and long term. Yes, McKinsey, Boston Consulting Group (BCG), etc are some of the biggest and well paid consulting firms out there but stop focusing JUST on the big ones. There are literally so many healthcare firms out there that you cannot keep track. I am trying to head into healthcare consulting myself and no I did not do my MPH at an Ivy League and I still get a decent amount of inquires for jobs at other consulting firms that work on many different types of projects and they usually pay well. Again, being paid well is a relative term. For me, it may mean one amount and for another it's something totally different.
An MBA can be completely irrelevant or at least where you get it from after some years of experience under your belt and a good track record of your work. It is sad that an MBA is solely measured just on the name and not so much on what is actually being learned to do the job. NOTHING beats actual work experience at the end of the day.
An MBA can be completely irrelevant or at least where you get it from after some years of experience under your belt and a good track record of your work. It is sad that an MBA is solely measured just on the name and not so much on what is actually being learned to do the job. NOTHING beats actual work experience at the end of the day.
D
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If I understand your goals correctly, you don't need a PharmD or PhD. You need business know-how. You can prove this with an MBA from a well-regarded school* OR with demonstrated business experience (both is preferable). And while it's tempting to set your sights on Big 4 firms, I'd recommend considering healthcare-specific consulting roles as well. These can be found in smaller boutique firms (e.g., Strategy Advantage), large health systems (e.g., Kaiser), GPOs (e.g., Premier), or other providers (e.g., CVS). Look around and find what suits you best.
* How well-regarded? Depends if you're aiming for inter/national or local. If smaller consulting firms, your local university may suffice.
* How well-regarded? Depends if you're aiming for inter/national or local. If smaller consulting firms, your local university may suffice.